Anyone following the ebola outbreak?

[TonyT]

...as we already passed the point where this could simply be quarantined away

Though I share you pessimism about Ebola, it is said that Nigeria has so few cases at the moment (officially zero) because it was much more aggressive in quarantine that other countries.  The Nigerians sent a team of people to trace every person who contacted an infected Ebola patient and had them quarantined, enforced by a spot check from a social worker every day.  This is why (it is said) Nigeria dodged a bullet (so far).  The US is much more lax in quarantine, and of course even more so is Liberia.

[NewLiberty]

Ready for the attempt medical tyranny by this admin? ready for your forced vaccination injection? OBEY.

will see soon...

Dangers of lack of trust in administration become apparent in humanitarian crises. If you see your leader as the equivalent of Dada, you probably aren't going to be too willing to accept a mandated injection or even follow basic procedures pushed by their health organizations. Without a free flow of global, neutral communication easily accessible, you're stuck with whatever the government says (with medical care generally an arm of the government), whatever the mass media says, and whatever your neighbors speculate based on what That Guy heard about That Other Guy who prayed to God and was cured by crucifying an albino goat, so if you distrust the government and believe the media just repeats talking points, you better hope you have smart neighbors with a background in infectious diseases.

With recent cures and vaccines, these are things you can't even trust in even if you did have faith in the government. Right now, it'd be a bad choice to take a vaccine, I think, given how few, as a %, are dying. This'll be changing soon as we already passed the point where this could simply be quarantined away, but nobody knows the long-term effects of these new cures and vaccines, and since if an effective vaccine is found, probably everyone in affected areas will be told to receive it if it's mass-produced cheaply. A relatively tiny %death can kill millions, ignoring the possibility of it having a %chance of spreading a mutated form. Given #infected + time = more opportunities for mutations, the probability of of a mutation able to resist whatever comes out to cure or vaccinate against the strain we assume we need to worry about is always increasing, so we have a wicked problem -- the longer a cure or vaccine is tested, the more people will die and the better chance that this becomes an endemic or the cure/vaccine turns out ineffective against a new strain which spread during testing, but injecting without adequate tests can cause more deaths than not injecting - and we can't know which route's better until the governments commit to a plan and see it through.

When put this way you make ebola seem not so bad after all.
Government medical authority is pandemic, and individuals encouraged to feel helpless without it.
This virus decides who lives and who dies and when and how people die.
Nations that have attached this to the same level and branch of government that are also responsible for paying the survivor benefits (pensions, social security, etc) seems to create a perverse incentive.

It also creates a perverse incentive for citizens, who may put up with a corrupt government because they have personal medical issues and can't abide any disruption in their own treatment.  Along with this, it also provides easy access to every individual vulnerability a person has to the largest and most powerful institutions globally, and entrusts that information to their safeguarding from anyone that might wish you harm.

This virus and the ebola-panic virus have a symbiotic relationship.  The more ebola-panic there is, the more folks will run to their government to "do something".
Those we go to for help, we also empower.

[bf4btc]

...as we already passed the point where this could simply be quarantined away

Though I share you pessimism about Ebola, it is said that Nigeria has so few cases at the moment (officially zero) because it was much more aggressive in quarantine that other countries.  The Nigerians sent a team of people to trace every person who contacted an infected Ebola patient and had them quarantined, enforced by a spot check from a social worker every day.  This is why (it is said) Nigeria dodged a bullet (so far).  The US is much more lax in quarantine, and of course even more so is Liberia.

Another thing that Nigeria did was essentially close off it's borders to anyone who is a citizen of a country that is experiencing an ebola outbreak. This, ironically could mean that they close their borders to the US. What it means today is that they will not accept people from neighboring countries.

I would find it very hard to believe that Obama would ever close our borders

[BitMos]

and be assured that once the virus burns itself out, the border will be reopened between Nigeria and it's neighbors. But some time safety cost, but unsafely may cost more, the problem is that risk have no ideological bias, none, they are pure from any manipulation. You can have what ever opinions the risks are the same. I know it's quite evident (like fire burns, and the wind moves air, but who know...).

[Grand_Voyageur]

From the major news outlet here in Italy an article - in Italian language - about two MDs quarantined near Milan, Italy.

[..]L’ostetrica e il chirurgo del Cuamm non hanno lavorato nella tenda di isolamento Ebola allestita all’ospedale governativo. Perché siete stati evacuati? «Per una serie di rotture dei protocolli nella gestione dei pazienti colpiti da Ebola o sospetti - dice Setti Carraro -. Errori del personale sanitario nazionale ci hanno esposto a un rischio incontrollato ed elevato di contagio».

English translation: "The Cuamm midwife and surgeon  have not worked in the Ebola isolation tent set up at the government hospital. Why are you being evacuated? "For a number of broken protocols in the management of patients with suspected Ebola - says Setti Carraro -. Errors of NHS staff have exposed us to a high and uncontrolled risk of infection."

L’ultimo caso: l’autista di un’«ambulanza Ebola» che presentava i sintomi ma è stato fatto uscire dalla tenda di isolamento prima dell’esito degli esami (per cui ci vogliono almeno 24 ore). Era un amico, pensavano fosse sano. Baci e abbracci. Tra il personale chi si è autodenunciato è stato messo in quarantena, come il responsabile della tenda, un ragazzone di nome Swarey che ha detto: «In tanti qui all’ospedale sono stati con l’autista ma stanno zitti». Anche operatori che lavoravano in maternità con gli italiani? Non si poteva escludere. Così Paolo e Chiara sono dovuti rientrare. «Vorremmo tornarci». «Penso alle infermiere locali che stanno rischiando», dice Chiara. «È pesante, stare qui isolati, non poter abbracciare nessuno. Ma dobbiamo pensare a chi è rimasto là». Swarey è morto pochi giorni fa: «La sera stava bene, la mattina della nostra partenza non è venuto a salutarci da lontano», dice Chiara. «Ho pensato: che pigrone».

English translation: The last case: the driver of a ''Ebola ambulance" who showed symptoms but was brought out of the isolation tent before the examinations (they takes at least 24 hours). He was a friend, thought it was healthy. Hugs and kisses. Among the staff who is reporting himself has been quarantined, like the head of the tent, a guy named Swarey who said: "Many have been here at the hospital with the driver but are silent." Even professionals working in maternity with Italians? Could not be excluded. So Paul and Clare had to return. "We want to go back." "I think the local nurses who are at risk," says Clare. "It's heavy, staying here isolated, not being able to hug anyone. But we have to think about those who are still there. "Swarey died a few days ago: "The night was fine, the morning of our departure did not come to greet us from afar," says Clare. "I thought that lazy."

[Swordsoffreedom]

Looks like more quarantine measures are being put in place

Ebola outbreak: U.S. travel quarantines could deter health workers
Florida becomes 4th U.S. state to implement additional Ebola measures

Under the revised New York guidelines, medical professors who have had contact with Ebola patients will be quarantined at home and receive twice-daily monitoring if they have no symptoms. The state will also pay for any lost compensation, if they are not paid by a volunteer organization.

Cuomo had criticized Dr. Craig Spencer, who tested positive for Ebola on Thursday, for not obeying a 21-day voluntary quarantine. But on Sunday, he called the health care workers "heroes" and said his administration would encourage more medical workers to volunteer to fight Ebola.

__
The Obama administration considers the policy in New York and New Jersey "not grounded in science" and conveyed its concerns to Christie and Cuomo, a senior administration official told The Associated Press. The official wasn't authorized to comment by name and insisted on anonymity.

"The best way to protect us is to stop the epidemic in Africa, and we need those health care workers, so we do not want to put them in a position where it makes it very, very uncomfortable for them to even volunteer to go," said Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ebola-outbreak-u-s-travel-quarantines-could-deter-health-workers-1.2813455

Well still interesting stuff to say the least good old quarantining.

[TonyT]

 "Swarey died a few days ago: "The night was fine, the morning of our departure did not come to greet us from afar," says Clare. "I thought that lazy."[/i]

Good one, thanks!  This is big news.  And sad too.  Notice the Italians, as is common there, like to hug and kiss, and this will spread the virus more easily.  Notice also how social they are:  they expect you to come from far away to see you off at the airport, and think you are lazy if you don't.  Imagine that with Americans, lol, who often barely even get off their TV couch to say goodbye as you walk out their front door!  (relax, I am an American) javascript:void(0); <--that's supposed to be a cheesy laugh

[Balthazar]

http://rt.com/news/199524-ebolacom-domain-sold-marijuana/

[Grand_Voyageur]

 "Swarey died a few days ago: "The night was fine, the morning of our departure did not come to greet us from afar," says Clare. "I thought that lazy."[/i]

Good one, thanks!  This is big news.  And sad too.  Notice the Italians, as is common there, like to hug and kiss, and this will spread the virus more easily.  Notice also how social they are:  they expect you to come from far away to see you off at the airport, and think you are lazy if you don't.  Imagine that with Americans, lol, who often barely even get off their TV couch to say goodbye as you walk out their front door!  (relax, I am an American) javascript:void(0); <--that's supposed to be a cheesy laugh

I think she wasn't meaning Swarey had to come from far away to say goodbye to them. I may think she means he didn't come to say goodbye even from a few yards (no hugs & kisses goodbye).  

http://rt.com/news/199524-ebolacom-domain-sold-marijuana/

 

[BitMos]

personally I have one priority (most are gonna bash and trash me, but who cares)... it's the safe return of the 4000. sorry, my priorities are straight.

[NewLiberty]

Not being in your field, when you say "droplet transmission" are you referring to airborne micro droplets?  I know of these from chemical engineering and combustion technology.  

That's exactly right. Like when you sneeze and a million tiny drops become airborne. Ebola does not cause sneezing, but a patient could also have a cold and I think that means he/she could infect you with a sneeze.  

Yeah those droplets can get mighty small.  Recall Millikan's famous electron oil drop experiments.  Imagine now one of those tiny droplets landing in your mucus membranes...and causing 'instant death' from Ebola!  Then you'll get the CDC saying that you were at fault for not wearing your respirator properly....

Certainly if you could get those viri drifting around on droplets it would be bad. For the most part, the patients diarrhea and vomit are the greatest concern. Especially when they reach the bleeding phase.  Fortunately this does not cause aerosolization and so a direct barrier is sufficient.  
Not that I would feel safe.

Some years ago I ran a computer maintenance operation on an Army base right next to the bay (salt water).  We could plot an exponential rise in pc board corrosion based on distance from the water.  But 600 feet inland, there was still corrosion.  That's what microdroplets do.  They are airborne, and have a finite lifetime (averaging milliseconds, but based mostly on the ambient humidity and temperature.  Statistical, but even after 3 sigma there are SOME floating.)  600 foot radius from one of these patients?

You might have to condemn the entire hospital if you take one of these patients in.  Lives lost are then far in excess of lives saved, so this is looking to me like tents in the desert, or somewhere isolated from the cities.  That's okay with me if that's what we have to do, I'd just like to see a reality orientation from the gubbermint(s).

http://www.inquisitr.com/1541821/ebola-is-airborne-university-of-minnesota-cidrap-researchers-claim/

It looks like Spendulus was on target, though humans are going to generate less mist than an ocean, it is a vector.

Even if ebola does not cause sneezing.  People with ebola can also get a cold or flu.

[TonyT]

Even if ebola does not cause sneezing.  People with ebola can also get a cold or flu.

That's a good point.  Can you imagine the microdroplets being sprayed from an Ebola-sufferer who has the flu?  Worse, since Ebola has "flu like symptoms", they will be masked by somebody who has the actual flu, and this person will be spraying everybody in the office with their body fluids, and nobody will give much concern, thinking it's the 'ordinary flu'.

Now imagine a person who has the flu, Ebola, and HIV, coughing, sneezing, and engaging in risky behavior.  A trifecta!!!  Quarantine anybody?

[NewLiberty]

Even if ebola does not cause sneezing.  People with ebola can also get a cold or flu.

That's a good point.  Can you imagine the microdroplets being sprayed from an Ebola-sufferer who has the flu?  Worse, since Ebola has "flu like symptoms", they will be masked by somebody who has the actual flu, and this person will be spraying everybody in the office with their body fluids, and nobody will give much concern, thinking it's the 'ordinary flu'.

Now imagine a person who has the flu, Ebola, and HIV, coughing, sneezing, and engaging in risky behavior.  A trifecta!!!  Quarantine anybody?

The edge case, trumped by the corner case.

"The good news is you have survived ebola hemorrhagic fever.  Now have a seat sir, there is some bad news."

[Argwai96]

Even if ebola does not cause sneezing.  People with ebola can also get a cold or flu.

That's a good point.  Can you imagine the microdroplets being sprayed from an Ebola-sufferer who has the flu?  Worse, since Ebola has "flu like symptoms", they will be masked by somebody who has the actual flu, and this person will be spraying everybody in the office with their body fluids, and nobody will give much concern, thinking it's the 'ordinary flu'.

Now imagine a person who has the flu, Ebola, and HIV, coughing, sneezing, and engaging in risky behavior.  A trifecta!!!  Quarantine anybody?

This is why, if ebola is not taken care of by flu season, that it will become a much worse problem in the US.

It is not realistic to be able to quarantine everyone with the flu, as our healthcare system would not be able to handle monitoring this many people for 21 days after they no longer have the flu. This will result in many people who have ebola being mistaken for having the flu, and being allowed to be in public and to spread the disease

[TonyT]

Even if ebola does not cause sneezing.  People with ebola can also get a cold or flu.

That's a good point.  Can you imagine the microdroplets being sprayed from an Ebola-sufferer who has the flu?  Worse, since Ebola has "flu like symptoms", they will be masked by somebody who has the actual flu, and this person will be spraying everybody in the office with their body fluids, and nobody will give much concern, thinking it's the 'ordinary flu'.

Now imagine a person who has the flu, Ebola, and HIV, coughing, sneezing, and engaging in risky behavior.  A trifecta!!!  Quarantine anybody?

This is why, if ebola is not taken care of by flu season, that it will become a much worse problem in the US.

It is not realistic to be able to quarantine everyone with the flu, as our healthcare system would not be able to handle monitoring this many people for 21 days after they no longer have the flu. This will result in many people who have ebola being mistaken for having the flu, and being allowed to be in public and to spread the disease

Must read.

TonyT

http://thefederalist.com/2014/10/31/medical-science-doesnt-support-official-rhetoric-on-ebola/

This year a team of researchers has already found more than 300 genetic mutations in the Ebola genome that now “make the 2014 Ebola virus genomes distinct from the viral genomes tied to previous Ebola outbreaks,” a portion of the findings reported in Science. This means that the strain of the virus that now threatens Americans (or could threaten the country a year from now) just might be transmitted with more casual contact than in the past.

[NewLiberty]

Even if ebola does not cause sneezing.  People with ebola can also get a cold or flu.

That's a good point.  Can you imagine the microdroplets being sprayed from an Ebola-sufferer who has the flu?  Worse, since Ebola has "flu like symptoms", they will be masked by somebody who has the actual flu, and this person will be spraying everybody in the office with their body fluids, and nobody will give much concern, thinking it's the 'ordinary flu'.

Now imagine a person who has the flu, Ebola, and HIV, coughing, sneezing, and engaging in risky behavior.  A trifecta!!!  Quarantine anybody?

This is why, if ebola is not taken care of by flu season, that it will become a much worse problem in the US.

It is not realistic to be able to quarantine everyone with the flu, as our healthcare system would not be able to handle monitoring this many people for 21 days after they no longer have the flu. This will result in many people who have ebola being mistaken for having the flu, and being allowed to be in public and to spread the disease

Must read.

TonyT

http://thefederalist.com/2014/10/31/medical-science-doesnt-support-official-rhetoric-on-ebola/

This year a team of researchers has already found more than 300 genetic mutations in the Ebola genome that now “make the 2014 Ebola virus genomes distinct from the viral genomes tied to previous Ebola outbreaks,” a portion of the findings reported in Science. This means that the strain of the virus that now threatens Americans (or could threaten the country a year from now) just might be transmitted with more casual contact than in the past.

It is in the interests of those that want more government control over health for there to be a crisis.  
Early intervention and prevention (especially if successful) will look like an over-reaction.
Whereas an evident crisis will help cement those in power.
The CDC is headed up by a political appointee.  They have downgraded the protective measures they are recommending, and approving non-factual information for the administration to convey, giving them cover politically.  ("Well, we are just following the CDC recommendation").
It is enough to make someone cynical.

[Wilikon]

Report: Obama Administration Pressured News Outlets to Not Report Suspected Ebola Cases


In case you haven’t noticed… Media outlets are no longer reporting on suspected Ebola cases at the urging of the Obama administration.
Downtrend reported:

There is a reason why Obama didn’t pick an Ebola Czar with any actual medical experience when he tabbed longtime Democrat party hack Ron Klain who is a lobbyist. The real danger was never that the foolish policies of Barry and the boys were exposing Americans to Ebola but rather the political implications of it all. So the sudden departure of Ebola stories from the state-corporate media doesn’t pass the smell test. Interestingly the website of Forbes has a story that reports:

The Associated Press and other press outlets have agreed not to report on suspected cases of Ebola in the United States until a positive viral RNA test is completed.

That damning line is buried deep in the article so anyone can be excused for not noticing it – they aren’t supposed to.


http://downtrend.com/donn-marten/obama-regime-puts-lipstick-on-a-pig-election-day-scrubbed-of-ebola/

[NewLiberty]

Report: Obama Administration Pressured News Outlets to Not Report Suspected Ebola Cases


In case you haven’t noticed… Media outlets are no longer reporting on suspected Ebola cases at the urging of the Obama administration.
Downtrend reported:

There is a reason why Obama didn’t pick an Ebola Czar with any actual medical experience when he tabbed longtime Democrat party hack Ron Klain who is a lobbyist. The real danger was never that the foolish policies of Barry and the boys were exposing Americans to Ebola but rather the political implications of it all. So the sudden departure of Ebola stories from the state-corporate media doesn’t pass the smell test. Interestingly the website of Forbes has a story that reports:

The Associated Press and other press outlets have agreed not to report on suspected cases of Ebola in the United States until a positive viral RNA test is completed.

That damning line is buried deep in the article so anyone can be excused for not noticing it – they aren’t supposed to.


http://downtrend.com/donn-marten/obama-regime-puts-lipstick-on-a-pig-election-day-scrubbed-of-ebola/

With whom are they agreeing?


This was expected.
As a political calculation, this is a no-brainer.
Authoritarianism wins if ebola becomes pervasive.
If the New York waste disposal washes ebola vomit into the sewer and the rats start spreading it, or it lives on the sewer pond scum and everyone runs to their government for help, and hands the government the authority over their health care....
The politics of it make sense.

Frankly... I do agree with this non-reporting on individual tests generally.  I'm of the opinion that personal health issues are personal.  

However if someone voluntarily goes to the press and lets them know that they are being tested for ebola there ought be no constraint on the press for sharing that information other than their normal fact checking.  Anything else is a prior restraint on the press = censorship.

[Singlebyte]

Just read the same thing about Obama pressuring the news media not to report on Ebola.  Although this could help stop a unwarranted panic, it will also cloud the public from the true facts of the possibility of a severe outbreak.

Another Source
http://www.infowars.com/media-agrees-not-to-report-on-suspected-ebola-cases-in-u-s/

[Gumbork]

Just read the same thing about Obama pressuring the news media not to report on Ebola.  Although this could help stop a unwarranted panic, it will also cloud the public from the true facts of the possibility of a severe outbreak.

Another Source
http://www.infowars.com/media-agrees-not-to-report-on-suspected-ebola-cases-in-u-s/

You can't believe everything you read online. Especially as of recently, there are a high number of "news outlets" that are.....less then credible....infowars being one of them