No matter how much we love BTC, confirmations take way too long!

[Bit_Happy]

Not an original topic, but there is a reason why it keeps coming up.
No matter how much we love BTC, confirmations take way too long!

<Insert standard response>
"Transactions are instant, and full confirmation is usually done in under 1 hour... both of which are better than credit cards."

<Reality check>
Merchants complete your sale 'almost instantly' with credit cards, and sometimes make you wait almost an hour when paying with BTC, which really does not work well in the real world....  better point of sale options are needed ASAP.

[ruggedman_dan]

Totally agreed.

I must say though, I do not think bitcoins were ever really designed for brick and mortar transactions. Not to say it cannot be used for such, because of course it can be.

Just like the credit card was never really intended to be used online.

[Dogtanian]

<Reality check>
Merchants complete your sale 'almost instantly' with credit cards, and sometimes make you wait almost an hour when paying with BTC, which really does not work well in the real world....  better point of sale options are needed ASAP.

And they use payment processors... which is what you can use with bitcoin. Problem solved.

[joshraban76]

Maybe what we need is a company like Visa or MC to supply a service where we deposit bitcoin and they issue the charge as fiat there wouldn't be any conformation time because the confirms would already have happened when you made the deposit.

[MegaHustlr]

Maybe what we need is a company like Visa or MC to supply a service where we deposit bitcoin and they issue the charge as fiat there wouldn't be any conformation time because the confirms would already have happened when you made the deposit.

We don't need any company like Visa or Mastercard. We're trying to get away from those type of companies. And like the user above says we already have services like Bitpay that cover these transactions so its irrelevant.

[Bit_Happy]

It IS relevant when you have only 2 blocks created in 40 minutes (like right now) and a merchant that requires at least 3 or 4 confirmations.

[MegaHustlr]

It IS relevant when you have only 2 blocks created in 40 minutes (like right now) and a merchant that requires at least 3 or 4 confirmations.

A payment processor will cover this. You send the money through them and all is good.

[AliceWonder]

Yes but part of the appeal of crypto is you don't have to use payment processor.

If going to have the money flow through a third party anyway, why deal with the volatility?

It is probably too late to change it, but my guess is it won't be bitcoin that is used for transactions where time is a factor.

Vast majority of web purchases it probably isn't an issue.

[chennan]

no,I don't think so! When comparing with wire transfer, It only takes 1 hours to get confirmed.There is no charge back for merchants which is different from credit card and many other payments methods. The merchants are happy to provide BTC payment.

[AliceWonder]

no,I don't think so! When comparing with wire transfer, It only takes 1 hours to get confirmed.There is no charge back for merchants which is different from credit card and many other payments methods. The merchants are happy to provide BTC payment.

When you start using third party payment processors chargebacks are possible - the third party can decide to not pay the merchant, just like credit card processors can and do.

[Whitehouse]

Yes but part of the appeal of crypto is you don't have to use payment processor.

If going to have the money flow through a third party anyway, why deal with the volatility?

It is probably too late to change it, but my guess is it won't be bitcoin that is used for transactions where time is a factor.

Vast majority of web purchases it probably isn't an issue.

Why deal with bitcoin at all? This is the risk or gamble you take. You use payment processors for safety as well. Are you really going to just send your money to some random company? What happens when you dont get the item that you paid for?

[AliceWonder]

Why deal with bitcoin at all? This is the risk or gamble you take. You use payment processors for safety as well. Are you really going to just send your money to some random company? What happens when you dont get the item that you paid for?

Sending large sums to random companies is not a good idea, but for established companies like Dell it is not a good idea for them to rip off customers. They'd lose in the end.

[onchain.io]

It IS relevant when you have only 2 blocks created in 40 minutes (like right now) and a merchant that requires at least 3 or 4 confirmations.

The Bitcoin confirmation time is about protecting from double spends. So 1 confirmation means it's unlikely the transaction could be reversed as in you would need a hell of a lot of mining power. 6 confirmations and you're transaction is pretty solid.

So a merchant would generally only wait for confirmations for large transactions. For small transactions it is enough to detect the transaction is in the network, i.e. more or less instant.

 

[Brewins]

For most of things its not relevant.

You don't buy something in an online store and hope it will be shipped in less than 1 hour, for example.

[franky1]

firstly credit/debit cards.

when in a shop and you swipe your card and type pin number in.. the money does not move..

in actual fact the <reality check> is that the merchant services simply does a balance check and gets a customer to authorise a movement of funds. much like signing a transaction.. well exactly like signing a transaction.

if someone went straight to an atm and checked their balance they usually see
total balance: XXX
available balance: XX

this available balance is what would be left to spend. but the account still shows the unconfirmed money(money has not moved) in the total balance, because it has not been confirmed yet. just authorised to be moved later

sometimes this takes up to 24 hours to confirm(actually make the total balance decrease) and then still 3 month-6 month to be able to reverse.

in short all the merchant is doing is accepting an signed transaction, and trusting the payment network to confirm(move the funds) later. as ofcourse the payment system is insuring payments as long as there is a signature or correct pin.

enjoy

[zerocool5878]

I don't think there is an option is everyone wants fast approvals then a 3rd party is prob the only way to achieve that.

[franky1]

I don't think there is an option is everyone wants fast approvals then a 3rd party is prob the only way to achieve that.

well if the third party insures payments, like bitpay did. otherwise the merchant can just do it himself, accept unconfirmed payments at whatever rate he chooses to then cash out later at localbitcoins, etc.

[Lauda]

Why are you complaining? International money transfer takes much longer.

[franky1]

Why are you complaining? International money transfer takes much longer.

because the OP thinks thinks that credit cards are different. which they arnt. bitcoins are faster than credit cards, the only difference is that it requires that extra layer (a third party to insure signed transactions).

if the OP only wants to accept confirmed tx's this is where a bitcoin debit service can easily come in. where people use a service they pre-deposit small daily spend amounts (to get pre confirmed) and then they can spend instantly. (research offchain tx's much like mtgox codes or btc-e codes work to send between members)

like i said for small daily spend amounts offchain tx's solve this problem. as it gives trust to the merchantof receiving funds (because the funds are pre-locked in and confirmed) and because its small amounts, it gives consumers trust of the third party service ( i never recommend throwing your entire hoard into third parties)

[hellscabane]

Not an original topic, but there is a reason why it keeps coming up.
No matter how much we love BTC, confirmations take way too long!

<Insert standard response>
"Transactions are instant, and full confirmation is usually done in under 1 hour... both of which are better than credit cards."

<Reality check>
Merchants complete your sale 'almost instantly' with credit cards, and sometimes make you wait almost an hour when paying with BTC, which really does not work well in the real world....  better point of sale options are needed ASAP.

As mentioned, payment processors is the way to settle this. Payment processors "solve" two of the "traditional problems" that I see with only relying on the blockchain: Point-of-Sale "speed" (i.e. a check to see sufficient funds or credit in order to process a sale), and the more pressing issue of "volume" (it'd be a continuous cycle of expansion to modify the blockchain to accept the amount of transactions that are done in credit/debit form).

However, the idea of having an intermediary processing a majority of the funds and in essence functioning as a bank of some sort is a vast decry from the tenets of bitcoin.

[I honestly feel that as bitcoin gains further traction and usage, some places will need to mitigate the risk of micro-transactions. And this will involve more places adopting a model in which you will need to keep your funds in an online wallet in order for them to be readily accessible. Could you imagine Coinbase being the next "Visa/Mastercard" and having the supporting infrastructure and risk mitigation to support the amount of transactions that are currently performed on a daily basis?]