[ANN] SpreadCoin | True Decentralization (No Pools) | Testing New Masternodes

[girino]

Thanks for everyone who donated. I will bring spreadcoin.net back online shortly.

So here is description of the feature that I want to implement. Some may like it while some may not.
I want to make this coin for solo only mining without any pools (mining will be made in a such way that miners will be able to consistently steal money from the pool). With blocks generated every minute even with thousands of miners you will still be able to get block once in several days (if you have average hashing speed). There will be no concentration of mining power in large pools as in Bitcoin and there will be no multipools. We can than advertize it as being more decentralized than Bitcoin. Mining will be more like a lottery which may be more interesting or in contrary distract people form mining (however, if you mine for long time than you don't actualy need any pools).

What do you think about this idea?

I already have working implementation but need to polish it in several ways.

So, i'm guessing that having a 1000 wallets in my machine will mine me more than having a single wallet? Or do you avoid that in some way?

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[Mr. Spread]

So, i'm guessing that having a 1000 wallets in my machine will mine me more than having a single wallet? Or do you avoid that in some way?

This is still a PoW, you mine according to your hashrate. So each of your 1000 wallets will have 1/1000 of your total hashrate that you could get with a single wallet.

[girino]

So, i'm guessing that having a 1000 wallets in my machine will mine me more than having a single wallet? Or do you avoid that in some way?

This is still a PoW, you mine according to your hashrate. So each of your 1000 wallets will have 1/1000 of your total hashrate that you could get with a single wallet.

Ok, i'll wait and see, but it looks to me that you'll still be able have a pool, just that the pool would have to "block" in some way the "consistently steal" part of the mining.

[A-tM]

And what about ability to mine with GPUs?

Right now, the coin is interesting for many who do not have powerful GPU, because the network hashing power is not dramatically increased by the big miners. Maybe this could be the advantage over other coins.

But this is not by the special design, but only because no miner software is adapted yet.
Am I right?

Any plans/ thoughts on this?

Regards,
Andy

[Viper1]

Thanks for everyone who donated. I will bring spreadcoin.net back online shortly.

So here is description of the feature that I want to implement. Some may like it while some may not.
I want to make this coin for solo only mining without any pools (mining will be made in a such way that miners will be able to consistently steal money from the pool). With blocks generated every minute even with thousands of miners you will still be able to get block once in several days (if you have average hashing speed). There will be no concentration of mining power in large pools as in Bitcoin and there will be no multipools. We can than advertize it as being more decentralized than Bitcoin. Mining will be more like a lottery which may be more interesting or in contrary distract people form mining (however, if you mine for long time than you don't actualy need any pools).

What do you think about this idea?

I already have working implementation but need to polish it in several ways.

I like the idea although not sure how you would go about doing that.  Delay acceptance until a few people report a block and then randomly select a winner?  I think Goldcoin did something where they prevent someone from getting blocks if they previously got some percentage of blocks.  They seem to have had a rocky start getting it to work properly though which lead to a lot of controversy from what I can tell.

One of the reasons I really like this coin so far is because you can mine with just the CPU.  I found it interesting that in an early post Satoshi talked about having a "gentlemans agreement" not to use GPU mining.  Funny how that worked out.  lol.  So anything that prevents hardcore miners from monopolizing things is a good idea in my books.  Course there's no way to really stop it but slowing it down would be a good thing in my books.

[girino]

And what about ability to mine with GPUs?

Right now, the coin is interesting for many who do not have powerful GPU, because the network hashing power is not dramatically increased by the big miners. Maybe this could be the advantage over other coins.

But this is not by the special design, but only because no miner software is adapted yet.
Am I right?

Any plans/ thoughts on this?

Regards,
Andy

Well, cpu only coins have the disadvantage of being targeted by botnets.

I was porting sgminer to work with this coin, but since the dev announced changes in the mining process i'll rather wait and see what will be done instead of loosing all the work when the fork comes.

[A-tM]

Please, be fair and do not mine few hours with extreme hashrate (in comparison with the rest of the network), to steal majority of new coins, until the difficulty raises three or four times, and then exit mining, and leave rest of the miners (with the mere one fourth of the former peak hashrate) to cope with the rised difficulty.
In this time period the block generation times are longer and the unhappy miners reap much less coins. After many hours difficulty finally lowers, and then the "magic miner" start again, and reap the advantage of low difficulty and unnatural short block generation time, until the difficulty adapts again.

Is this surge mining the result of some GPU miner, who has much bigger hashrate available in comparison to others?

Regards,
Andy

[gjhiggins]

Thanks for everyone who donated. I will bring spreadcoin.net back online shortly.

So here is description of the feature that I want to implement. Some may like it while some may not.
I want to make this coin for solo only mining without any pools (mining will be made in a such way that miners will be able to consistently steal money from the pool). With blocks generated every minute even with thousands of miners you will still be able to get block once in several days (if you have average hashing speed). There will be no concentration of mining power in large pools as in Bitcoin and there will be no multipools. We can than advertize it as being more decentralized than Bitcoin. Mining will be more like a lottery which may be more interesting or in contrary distract people form mining (however, if you mine for long time than you don't actualy need any pools).

What do you think about this idea?

I already have working implementation but need to polish it in several ways.

Sorry, this one passed me by, didn't scroll up far enough.
 
I think it's most intriguing. With 1500+ altcoins already launched, a genuine and significant USP (unique selling point) is rather valuable --- and, if I don't miss my guess, you have ideas for some other enhancements which would support that uniqueness.

So, I was particularly distressed to read about your loss and likely departure because you're one of the few devs with a software engineering background (which I inferred from your reaction of distaste to some of the more yucky baggage that the sequential forks have introduced) and was really pleased to see the community and yourself sorting things out.

There are one or two other alts that are also heading in “primary support for soloing” direction, not that I can recall which ones; maybe I can recover that info from text search ... but anyway, they were planning to put in some effort to reconstitute the old “mining” tab page in the wallet, in an updated format with better UI. I presume Qt provides the basic capability of h/w config detection (number of cores, etc) and ofc the old wallets still carry the original implementation which can probably be looted of whatever code's still working and relevant.

There does seem to be a bit of a separation now between the novacoin/bottlecaps forks in which *generate has been removed from the RPC API and the peercoin forks which retain it - in that most of the recent PnDs seem to be non-soloable from the wallet, which I guess is in broad favour of the rig rental outfits and mineral pools because it's that extra step of d/loading the miner and running it that puts off the casual adopter.

If it wasn't you then it was another coin dev who expressed dissatisfaction with the slow miner built-in to the wallet and intended to replace it with the core of the much speedier standalone miner.

I like the idea for its novelty if nothing else and sounds like you may well have a point about decentralization. If you can make in-wallet soloing really easy-peasy, that'd be a big plus for adoption, I'd say.

Cheers

Graham

[Mr. Spread]

I hope no one thinks that I just took the money and ran away 
We will be ready to make a fork tomorrow or in the day after tomorrow.

If you can make in-wallet soloing really easy-peasy, that'd be a big plus for adoption, I'd say.

Yes, this will be my next task.

[girino]

I hope no one thinks that I just took the money and ran away 
We will be ready to make a fork tomorrow or in the day after tomorrow.

If you can make in-wallet soloing really easy-peasy, that'd be a big plus for adoption, I'd say.

Yes, this will be my next task.

great news! :-D thanks for the update!

[BITDV]

I hope no one thinks that I just took the money and ran away  
We will be ready to make a fork tomorrow or in the day after tomorrow.

If you can make in-wallet soloing really easy-peasy, that'd be a big plus for adoption, I'd say.

Yes, this will be my next task.

Awesome most are waiting and of course you didnt run , you just posted lol  and great on the update

[Mr. Spread]

Seems that someone is using a GPU miner, look at these difficulty variations:


Meanwhile, I found some blocks with very strange difficulty, I need to found out is it some bug in difficulty adjustment or are they just some artifacts.

[A-tM]

Seems that someone is using a GPU miner, look at this difficulty variations:


Meanwhile, I found some blocks with very strange difficulty, I need to found out is it some bug in difficulty adjustment or are they just some artifacts.

I have discovered it immediately, on 3rd september, see my post above.

I am looking forward the announcement.
Maybe it would really be big attraction point to make the coin only CPU mineable, and solo mineable.
But: if someone "breakes" the restriction, and that "solution" will not be available to all miners, it makes him extremely favourable in comparison to the rest of the community.

Regards,
Andy

[elbandi]

Maybe it would really be big attraction point to make the coin only CPU mineable, and solo mineable.

the pool mining has a good advantage: miners get coins continuously! Imagine: there are 2 miners, one with a large hashpower, other with small hashpower. If the small miner has a big unlucky, he run the cpu days without coin. While, in pool mining, the smaller miner get every hour/day/etc a small coins.

[A-tM]

Maybe it would really be big attraction point to make the coin only CPU mineable, and solo mineable.

the pool mining has a good advantage: miners get coins continuously! Imagine: there are 2 miners, one with a large hashpower, other with small hashpower. If the small miner has a big unlucky, he run the cpu days without coin. While, in pool mining, the smaller miner get every hour/day/etc a small coins.

I agree...
But pure solo mining means greater decentralization, and it is difference point against competition.
I, personally, can live with pure solo mining, but welcome the pool possibility.
It is a tradeoff.

Maybe, if some mechanism which will equal the rewards a bit...  if someone with lower hashrate catches a block very rarely, and is unlucky in comparison to what he should get (considering ratio of his and the whole network hashrate), then if some sort of luck equalising algo will kick in...
When the block is found, and the founder has more coins than he should, maybe the algo waits a bit more if someone unlucky did not get the hash too, and then reward go to the unlucky one, to balance out the luck deviation.

This will partially even up the mining rate.

Regards,
Andy

[A-tM]

Seems that someone is using a GPU miner, look at these difficulty variations:


Meanwhile, I found some blocks with very strange difficulty, I need to found out is it some bug in difficulty adjustment or are they just some artifacts.

Mr. Spread,

can you make the difficulty algo adapting faster to the changes of network hashrate?
Maybe one hour, instead of 24 hours... It is 60 blocks. It should be much more fair.
Now the coin generation speeds much, and then slows to the snail rate, while the "weak" network nibbles through many hard blocks.

Regards,
Andy

[Mr. Spread]

Finally, here it is:
Windows wallet
Mac OS X wallet
Linux wallet

Hardfork is set to block 43000.
The general idea is that there is some additional information in each block that proofs that miner knows whole block and private key for spending coinbase transaction. That means that if you mine in a pool you can submit shares as usual and get reward for them but if you will actually find a valid block then you can send it directly to the network instead of the pool and get full reward for it. Pool may detect it and ban you but this is still may be advantageous for you. If your mining power gives you low probability of finding a block then if you will accidentally find a block it gives you more profit even if the pool will ban you for not sharing this block. If you have enough mining power to find blocks consistently then you can connect to a pool and submit shares for some time but steal the first found block, this way you can get both reward for your shares and actual block that you mined, this is like doubling your hashrate.
Given all this I don't expect that anyone will create a pool. But if someone will then I will modify whatever miner software will be used for it to implement the stealing described above, we may expect that most pool miners will then switch to this cheating version which will make this pool useless.

Also I made built-in GUI for the miner. Currently it is still the same CPU miner but in the future I want to make as interface to external miners. Other developers (and me) will be able to independently create CPU and GPU miners and fastest such miners will be distributed with the wallet and available from GUI.

I changed difficulty retarget to six hours. I don't want to set it to lower values because then it may become vulnerable to manipulation by setting improper block timestamps.

Existing GPU miner will become unusable after the fork point because of the modifications to the mining algorithm which are necessary to prevent pools.

[gjhiggins]

Finally, here it is:

Nice. Does exactly what it says on the tin. I like the block spacing estimate, most useful.

Cheers

Graham

[BITDV]

Finally, here it is:
Windows wallet
Mac OS X wallet
Linux wallet

Hardfork is set to block 43000.
The general idea is that there is some additional information in each block that proofs that miner knows whole block and private key for spending coinbase transaction. That means that if you mine in a pool you can submit shares as usual and get reward for them but if you will actually find a valid block then you can send it directly to the network instead of the pool and get full reward for it. Pool may detect it and ban you but this is still may be advantageous for you. If your mining power gives you low probability of finding a block then if you will accidentally find a block it gives you more profit even if the pool will ban you for not sharing this block. If you have enough mining power to find blocks consistently then you can connect to a pool and submit shares for some time but steal the first found block, this way you can get both reward for your shares and actual block that you mined, this is like doubling your hashrate.
Given all this I don't expect that anyone will create a pool. But if someone will then I will modify whatever miner software will be used for it to implement the stealing described above, we may expect that most pool miners will then switch to this cheating version which will make this pool useless.

Also I made built-in GUI for the miner. Currently it is still the same CPU miner but in the future I want to make as interface to external miners. Other developers (and me) will be able to independently create CPU and GPU miners and fastest such miners will be distributed with the wallet and available from GUI.

I changed difficulty retarget to six hours. I don't want to set it to lower values because then it may become vulnerable to manipulation by setting improper block timestamps.

Existing GPU miner will become unusable after the fork point because of the modifications to the mining algorithm which are necessary to prevent pools.

got it running and nice!!

[A-tM]

Thank you, already updated.

Regards,
Andy