Bitcoin Forum
May 03, 2024, 07:43:51 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Chase Bank Closes Bitcoin related accounts  (Read 13392 times)
smoothie (OP)
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473


LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper


View Profile
July 29, 2014, 11:22:08 PM
 #1

What are you doing about this if you have had this happen to you?

http://newswire.net/newsroom/financial/00084277-chase-bank-drops-bitcoin-account-holders.html

Quote
Chase bank has begun sending out account cancelation letters to long time business account holders.
The letter states in part;
“We recently reviewed your account and determined we will be closing it on xxxxx xx, xxxx. Please accept our apologies for the inconvenience. We want you to have enough time to complete pending transactions and open another account at another bank.”
“If you have any questions, please call us at …..”
An account holder did just that and was told “…according to the terms of our account, either party may cancel the account for any reason at any time. We are exercising our right to cancel the account.”
The bank letter was directed from “Chase Operating Loss Preventing” so naturally questions about the proposed cancelation were asked.
Q. Why is the account being canceled?
A. We are exercising our right to cancel.
Q. For what reason are you canceling the account?
A. Per our account terms, we are exercising our right to cancel.
Q. The letter is directed from loss prevention. Has there been activity on the account that we should be aware of?
A. We cannot discuss that with you.
Q. What do you mean you cannot discuss it? You have verified the account holder using your security questions?
A. We are not allowed to discuss that with you.
Q. Under what law are you not allowed to discuss? This is not a HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act) violation. Under FoIA (Freedom of Information Act) shouldn’t you be required to inform the account holder?
A. We cannot discuss the reasons with you.
Q. This account has been open for years without problems. If this concerns a loss prevention issue, isn’t it important that the account holder know what may be causing a potential loss?
A. We reserve the right to cancel the account at any time for any reason without any explanation.
And so it went up the chain. No explanation required, just your account will be canceled.
But this account had been used to purchase bitcoin.
And apparently there is a new tool that the federal government is using to crackdown on businesses that they determine as “undesirable”.  
If you sell guns, coins, or any other product the FED doesn’t like, the message is clear:
The government now has the right to restrict financial institutions from working with you.
According to Obama’s Financial Fraud Enforcement Task Force, the “initiative”—known as “Operation Chokepoint”—is being front-lined “on behalf of the American people.”
Mark Cohen, a gun seller in Massachusetts, lays it out. “Our loan was turned [down] not because of our credit—We had perfect financials and [had] been working with the same bank manager for 20 years. It was just because we sell guns—and they said that to us specifically.”
Since federal attorney Michael Bresnik introduced the initiative last March, The Justice Department has sent hundreds of subpoenas warning banks and payment processors that they will be severely fined if caught financing businesses like Cohen’s.
Thousands of banks are now rushing to cut ties with “undesirable” businesses in what California Representative Darrell Isa calls “The Justice Department’s newest abuse of power.”
The first “choking” victim was not a gun seller or coin dealer, but an $809 million-asset Four Oaks Bank in North Carolina.
The Fine: $1.2 million.
The Crime: Working with a payday lender.
In short, Four Oaks Bank is now the poster child of the government’s new relationship with finance. Finance someone the government doesn’t like? You will be run out. Produce a product the government doesn’t like? You will be “choked” out.
Sources:
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/economic-intelligence/2014/07/02/some-in-congress-object-to-justice-departments-operation-choke-point
http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/18/operation-choke-point-hearing-reveals-doj-threats-and-strong-arming

███████████████████████████████████████

            ,╓p@@███████@╗╖,           
        ,p████████████████████N,       
      d█████████████████████████b     
    d██████████████████████████████æ   
  ,████²█████████████████████████████, 
 ,█████  ╙████████████████████╨  █████y
 ██████    `████████████████`    ██████
║██████       Ñ███████████`      ███████
███████         ╩██████Ñ         ███████
███████    ▐▄     ²██╩     a▌    ███████
╢██████    ▐▓█▄          ▄█▓▌    ███████
 ██████    ▐▓▓▓▓▌,     ▄█▓▓▓▌    ██████─
           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓█,,▄▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
    ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓─  
     ²▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓╩    
        ▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀       
           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.                  History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA BITCOIN GRIM REAPER SILVER COINS.
 
1714765431
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714765431

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714765431
Reply with quote  #2

1714765431
Report to moderator
1714765431
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714765431

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714765431
Reply with quote  #2

1714765431
Report to moderator
1714765431
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714765431

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714765431
Reply with quote  #2

1714765431
Report to moderator
BitcoinCleanup.com: Learn why Bitcoin isn't bad for the environment
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1714765431
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714765431

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714765431
Reply with quote  #2

1714765431
Report to moderator
1714765431
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714765431

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714765431
Reply with quote  #2

1714765431
Report to moderator
kingama
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 94
Merit: 10


View Profile
July 29, 2014, 11:26:08 PM
 #2

Find a way to work without a bank account. Unless your business is online fiat currency exchange or involves purchasing stock with fiat, you can do it. I suppose you could try to operate a Bitcoin business inside another cash business but that is risky.
pirsquared
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 109
Merit: 10


View Profile
July 29, 2014, 11:51:52 PM
 #3

Smoothie, I have followed your investment advise and posts extensively. I'm guessing you have personally had this experience w/ Chase. The legacy banking system does not like people playing with their monopoly on money movement. You know this I'm sure.

I am not nearly as savvy as you, but I am currently unbanked except one account where I carry a ZERO balance. It is difficult to navigate this terrain, but I manage because I am committed to my principles. Sometimes this means eating out at only chains that accept Gyft. I hate chains, but I love bitcoin.

In order to be unbanked and have some accumulated wealth; sacrifices must be made. Being unbanked has led to me accumulating more than I otherwise could have by way of hodling due to circumstance. I am also forced to have a trusted network of family and friends that allow me to use multiple prepaid cards in their names.

I hate that this keeps happening, but...Cash and BTC work just fine in most instances. For everything else there is a prepaid reloadable card.

If you HODL store it CODL!
smoothie (OP)
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473


LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper


View Profile
July 30, 2014, 12:02:11 AM
 #4

Smoothie, I have followed your investment advise and posts extensively. I'm guessing you have personally had this experience w/ Chase. The legacy banking system does not like people playing with their monopoly on money movement. You know this I'm sure.

I am not nearly as savvy as you, but I am currently unbanked except one account where I carry a ZERO balance. It is difficult to navigate this terrain, but I manage because I am committed to my principles. Sometimes this means eating out at only chains that accept Gyft. I hate chains, but I love bitcoin.

In order to be unbanked and have some accumulated wealth; sacrifices must be made. Being unbanked has led to me accumulating more than I otherwise could have by way of hodling due to circumstance. I am also forced to have a trusted network of family and friends that allow me to use multiple prepaid cards in their names.

I hate that this keeps happening, but...Cash and BTC work just fine in most instances. For everything else there is a prepaid reloadable card.

No to be clear I do not have a Chase bank account, never have...and now never will.  Cheesy

It is good to be proactive in these sort of things is why I am asking.

On another front, I do not give investment advice. Just tell people what I would be doing or what I think will happen. I am in no way a financial advisor.

███████████████████████████████████████

            ,╓p@@███████@╗╖,           
        ,p████████████████████N,       
      d█████████████████████████b     
    d██████████████████████████████æ   
  ,████²█████████████████████████████, 
 ,█████  ╙████████████████████╨  █████y
 ██████    `████████████████`    ██████
║██████       Ñ███████████`      ███████
███████         ╩██████Ñ         ███████
███████    ▐▄     ²██╩     a▌    ███████
╢██████    ▐▓█▄          ▄█▓▌    ███████
 ██████    ▐▓▓▓▓▌,     ▄█▓▓▓▌    ██████─
           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓█,,▄▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
    ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓─  
     ²▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓╩    
        ▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀       
           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.                  History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA BITCOIN GRIM REAPER SILVER COINS.
 
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079


Gerald Davis


View Profile
July 30, 2014, 12:20:57 AM
Last edit: July 30, 2014, 12:56:12 AM by DeathAndTaxes
 #5

This is pretty standard in banking contracts. Either party can at any time and for any reason (even for a lack of a stated reason) close an account.  Likewise either party can for any reason (even for a lack of stated reason) refuse to complete the account opening process.   The only reasons which are prohibited by law are discrimination of a protected classes (race, religion, gender, etc).

For bitcoiners who are concerned about the disruption of having an account closed without reason open up a free checking account with a second bank or credit union and use it for all Bitcoin exchange transactions.  No it won't keep them from closing the account but at least it will minimize the impact if they do.
Matze
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 76
Merit: 10


View Profile
July 30, 2014, 12:37:18 AM
 #6

THIS IS WHY I HATE THE FEDS!!!! FUCK THEM.
west420
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 15
Merit: 0


View Profile
July 30, 2014, 12:38:07 AM
 #7

The most likely reason for this is probably because too much money was moving into and out of the account verses the account balance so it looks like you are laundering money.

If you are going to do any "trades" out of your bank account, or in any way involving your bank account then you should open a business account.
64dimensions
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 578
Merit: 508


View Profile
July 30, 2014, 02:38:37 AM
 #8

Guys,

You are way overthinking this. Haven't you read the news? Chase has been paying many fines for being tangentially involved with various scams such as the Madoff scam.

The political read on this is that whatever department within Chase that assesses risk is politically powerful at the moment.

So my translation of all this is that any account remotely risky is being let go.

It's the usual corporate kabuki dance where if one person or department has done something egregious, everyone is punished by the revised set of rules.
Beliathon
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 784
Merit: 1000


https://youtu.be/PZm8TTLR2NU


View Profile WWW
July 30, 2014, 02:43:50 AM
 #9

It's the usual corporate kabuki dance where if one person or department has done something egregious, everyone is punished by the revised set of rules.
Astute analysis my friend, thank you for it.

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
Swordsoffreedom
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 2758
Merit: 1115


Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform


View Profile WWW
July 30, 2014, 03:54:24 AM
 #10

Conclusion Chase Bank is evil
Although I have read a few times how Chase Bank has closed peoples accounts on them with no notice.
Sometimes I think a complete collapse of the current financial system and all the damage it will cause is what will be the end result of this.

..Stake.com..   ▄████████████████████████████████████▄
   ██ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄            ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██  ▄████▄
   ██ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██████████ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██  ██████
   ██ ██████████ ██      ██ ██████████ ██   ▀██▀
   ██ ██      ██ ██████  ██ ██      ██ ██    ██
   ██ ██████  ██ █████  ███ ██████  ██ ████▄ ██
   ██ █████  ███ ████  ████ █████  ███ ████████
   ██ ████  ████ ██████████ ████  ████ ████▀
   ██ ██████████ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██████████ ██
   ██            ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀            ██ 
   ▀█████████▀ ▄████████████▄ ▀█████████▀
  ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███  ██  ██  ███▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
 ██████████████████████████████████████████
▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄
█  ▄▀▄             █▀▀█▀▄▄
█  █▀█             █  ▐  ▐▌
█       ▄██▄       █  ▌  █
█     ▄██████▄     █  ▌ ▐▌
█    ██████████    █ ▐  █
█   ▐██████████▌   █ ▐ ▐▌
█    ▀▀██████▀▀    █ ▌ █
█     ▄▄▄██▄▄▄     █ ▌▐▌
█                  █▐ █
█                  █▐▐▌
█                  █▐█
▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀█
▄▄█████████▄▄
▄██▀▀▀▀█████▀▀▀▀██▄
▄█▀       ▐█▌       ▀█▄
██         ▐█▌         ██
████▄     ▄█████▄     ▄████
████████▄███████████▄████████
███▀    █████████████    ▀███
██       ███████████       ██
▀█▄       █████████       ▄█▀
▀█▄    ▄██▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██▄  ▄▄▄█▀
▀███████         ███████▀
▀█████▄       ▄█████▀
▀▀▀███▄▄▄███▀▀▀
..PLAY NOW..
maurya78
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 490
Merit: 500


View Profile
July 30, 2014, 05:36:26 AM
 #11

Very disappointing decision if true
As a US bank, I guess their hand was forced by the usual, predictable interest groups in US gov't

Ron~Popeil
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 406
Merit: 250



View Profile
July 30, 2014, 01:51:04 PM
 #12

Expect more of this. It is in the interest of the banking industry to make it as difficult as possible to obtain bit coin. The fact that these directives are coming from the feds isn't surprising. Disturbing, but not surprising.

Bit_Happy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2100
Merit: 1040


A Great Time to Start Something!


View Profile
July 30, 2014, 01:59:38 PM
 #13

“Chase What Matters”   Roll Eyes
...the “Chase What Matters” campaign cost $70 million in media buys and production costs during the first quarter. (of 2008)

franky1
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 4214
Merit: 4461



View Profile
July 31, 2014, 02:17:06 AM
Last edit: July 31, 2014, 02:38:53 AM by franky1
 #14

as bitcoiners, with our own community, payment rituals and own currency. wouldn't denying someone an bank account be a form of racism discrimination based on our ethnic background?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_group
Quote
An ethnicity, or ethnic group, is a socially-defined category of people who identify with each other based on common ancestral, social, cultural, or national experience.[1][2] Membership of an ethnic group tends to be defined by a shared cultural heritage, ancestry, myth of origins, history, homeland, language (dialect), or even ideology, and manifests itself through symbolic systems such as religion, mythology and ritual, cuisine, dressing style, physical appearance, etc.

i wonder if some legal guy at the *cough* foundation *cough* would be interested in this trivial matter of  'bitcoin ethnicity discrimination'.. could be interesting.

although i probably feel that the OP is more likely done a few too many transactions, and got flagged for large spending.

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
jjc326
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 700
Merit: 500


View Profile
July 31, 2014, 02:21:06 AM
 #15

Guess you can't use Chase, better to go to another bank then.  And, thanks for the warning so we can all avoid Chase.

Regarding ethnic argument, that's never going to work.  Is there anything else you can think of that's similar?  Most things have to do with skin color, where you're from, religion, language, etc.  Under your definition then all fans of a certain sports team would be an ethnicity.
franky1
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 4214
Merit: 4461



View Profile
July 31, 2014, 02:28:49 AM
 #16

Guess you can't use Chase, better to go to another bank then.  And, thanks for the warning so we can all avoid Chase.

Regarding ethnic argument, that's never going to work.  Is there anything else you can think of that's similar?  Most things have to do with skin color, where you're from, religion, language, etc.  Under your definition then all fans of a certain sports team would be an ethnicity.

well not race, but we as a social community with our own REAL currency that although not legal tender of USA, it is a recognized and usable currency. .. unlike sport fans or gamer social groups with ingame points/coins. making us more like a legit socio-nation

so not ethno-racism, but ethno-nationalism..
like i said if a legal guy can look into it, atleast its worth a shot to try every tactic in the book to defend our freedoms

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
franky1
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 4214
Merit: 4461



View Profile
July 31, 2014, 02:43:18 AM
 #17


Q. Under what law are you not allowed to discuss? This is not a HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act) violation. Under FoIA (Freedom of Information Act) shouldn’t you be required to inform the account holder?


Correct me if I'm wrong but does the FOIA apply to the practices of private banks, or any private institution? My thinking is no...but someone please inform me if I'm incorrect.

Citibank is the same. Fuck Citibank.

They flagged my account for "suspicious use" four times in a month because of ATM withdrawals. I called in 4 separate times to tell them that I, the account holder, am responsible for the charges and that they were not fraudulent.

2 Days later it happened again over a $2 charge. My card was declined. So I called Citibank AGAIN.

I spoke with someone in Loss Prevention and told then I was going to the local branch tomorrow to punch the bank manager in the face. Since they couldn't ever seem to find the right "department" to keep my card from being unnecessarily flagged for fraud, I thought maybe they could get a message to my local branch that I was going to punch someone in the face the following day.

They told me they wouldn't be able to get that message to my local branch, either.

So I went there the next day and punched the bank manager in the face.

True story.


in most countries FOIA only applies to public sector companies (government owned company).

Quote
The Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), 5 U.S.C. § 552, is a federal freedom of information law that allows for the full or partial disclosure of previously unreleased information and documents controlled by the United States government.

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
Yakamoto
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1007


View Profile
July 31, 2014, 02:48:32 AM
 #18

Alright, I now know what I should start doing.

Aim to get a banking license, and create a BTC-friendly bank.

Wait, the NSA logged my IP for saying that...

Darn.
nutildah
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2982
Merit: 7968



View Profile WWW
July 31, 2014, 04:08:22 AM
 #19

Alright, I now know what I should start doing.

Aim to get a banking license, and create a BTC-friendly bank.

Wait, the NSA logged my IP for saying that...

Darn.

The NSA wants you to start a BTC-friendly bank. Bitcoin is their invention.

So that means Satoshi's Mega Stash is controlled by the federal government? I can go along with that...

▄▄███████▄▄
▄██████████████▄
▄██████████████████▄
▄████▀▀▀▀███▀▀▀▀█████▄
▄█████████████▄█▀████▄
███████████▄███████████
██████████▄█▀███████████
██████████▀████████████
▀█████▄█▀█████████████▀
▀████▄▄▄▄███▄▄▄▄████▀
▀██████████████████▀
▀███████████████▀
▀▀███████▀▀
.
 MΞTAWIN  THE FIRST WEB3 CASINO   
.
.. PLAY NOW ..
nutildah
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2982
Merit: 7968



View Profile WWW
July 31, 2014, 04:16:41 AM
 #20

I guess if they mentioned the exact law they are referring to they could potentially give away the nature of the crime being investigated and you could interfere with or else evade such investigation if the crime involved you directly.

Kind of makes me want to try and buy some bitcoin with my chase credit card, just so I can have the honor of getting one of those letters.

▄▄███████▄▄
▄██████████████▄
▄██████████████████▄
▄████▀▀▀▀███▀▀▀▀█████▄
▄█████████████▄█▀████▄
███████████▄███████████
██████████▄█▀███████████
██████████▀████████████
▀█████▄█▀█████████████▀
▀████▄▄▄▄███▄▄▄▄████▀
▀██████████████████▀
▀███████████████▀
▀▀███████▀▀
.
 MΞTAWIN  THE FIRST WEB3 CASINO   
.
.. PLAY NOW ..
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!