Pros and Cons to Anon coins, Including Darkcoin / Cloakcoin, lets discuss them.

[battbot]

Some mobile devices will run with a full node. They'll stake and everything.

Other devices (say, dumbphones) that can't run a node will end up using PoBC. The basic idea is:
- dumbphone node contacts other nodes
- provably establishes that the other nodes' blockchains are legit
- thereby proves that a given tx is legit


Why would you say that this is ill-advised? In my view mobile-friendliness is absolutely critical to mainstream adoption.

Why reinvent the wheel? Just use Electrum (open source!) or SPV.

Probably because XC offers both completely anonymous transactions and instant p2p encrypted messaging.  In other words, XC offers a complete platform that protects one's rights to privacy.  Bye NSA.

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[FreedomCoin]

This is not a discuses anyone more ... everyone is just throwing his coin in here and trying to advertise so their coin gets pumped how pathetic is this really... Please stay on the topic and let us only focus on DARKCOIN and CLOAKCOIN. Can we do this ? Thank you

I feel we should discuss any Anon coin as long as its related to similar protocols so they are comparable.. If you want a thread on a one vs one, then i suggest you create a self moderated topic so you can do that.

[PowderMonkey]

This is not a discuses anyone more ... everyone is just throwing his coin in here and trying to advertise so their coin gets pumped how pathetic is this really... Please stay on the topic and let us only focus on DARKCOIN and CLOAKCOIN. Can we do this ? Thank you

I feel we should discuss any Anon coin as long as its related to similar protocols so they are comparable.. If you want a thread on a one vs one, then i suggest you create a self moderated topic so you can do that.

Then you don't understood why we made this thread in the first place....

Ummm.. maybe I'm missing something, but seeing that he's the OP, I'm sure he does lol.

Not sure what your goal is but there's good discussion going on here, and your Willy Wonka videos etc aren't really adding useful info to the conversation.

[synechist]

This is not a discuses anyone more ... everyone is just throwing his coin in here and trying to advertise so their coin gets pumped how pathetic is this really... Please stay on the topic and let us only focus on DARKCOIN and CLOAKCOIN. Can we do this ? Thank you

I feel we should discuss any Anon coin as long as its related to similar protocols so they are comparable.. If you want a thread on a one vs one, then i suggest you create a self moderated topic so you can do that.

Then you don't understood why we made this thread in the first place....

If there's general consensus that this thread should only be concerned with Cloak and DRK then I'm quite happy to not talk about XC. I have no intention of irritating you guys.

On the other hand, if there's a general interest in viable anon systems - since Cloak and DRK are hardly the only significant contenders - then I'd say that discussing XC is pretty valuable.

[Sleepyx]

This is not a discuses anyone more ... everyone is just throwing his coin in here and trying to advertise so their coin gets pumped how pathetic is this really... Please stay on the topic and let us only focus on DARKCOIN and CLOAKCOIN. Can we do this ? Thank you

I feel we should discuss any Anon coin as long as its related to similar protocols so they are comparable.. If you want a thread on a one vs one, then i suggest you create a self moderated topic so you can do that.

Then you don't understood why you made this thread in the first place....

lol

[policymaker]

This is not a discuses anyone more ... everyone is just throwing his coin in here and trying to advertise so their coin gets pumped how pathetic is this really... Please stay on the topic and let us only focus on DARKCOIN and CLOAKCOIN. Can we do this ? Thank you

I feel we should discuss any Anon coin as long as its related to similar protocols so they are comparable.. If you want a thread on a one vs one, then i suggest you create a self moderated topic so you can do that.

always nice to know ur OP isnt braindead

[FreedomCoin]

This is not a discuses anyone more ... everyone is just throwing his coin in here and trying to advertise so their coin gets pumped how pathetic is this really... Please stay on the topic and let us only focus on DARKCOIN and CLOAKCOIN. Can we do this ? Thank you

I feel we should discuss any Anon coin as long as its related to similar protocols so they are comparable.. If you want a thread on a one vs one, then i suggest you create a self moderated topic so you can do that.

Then you don't understood why we made this thread in the first place....

Since this is not a moderated thread its going to be too difficult policing what people are discussing. I do not have the time for that, if you feel that is an important discussion please create one, and feel free to post a link in this thread so others can discuss Dark and Cloak coin centric issues.

Yes originally i was going for just Cloak and Dark, but stopping others from talking about other coins is too difficult.

Having an open discussion across all Anon coins in a thread isnt a bad idea, that way they can all be compared in the same place.. instead of having to thread jump between 5 or more coins.

[hoertest]

This is not a discuses anyone more ... everyone is just throwing his coin in here and trying to advertise so their coin gets pumped how pathetic is this really... Please stay on the topic and let us only focus on DARKCOIN and CLOAKCOIN. Can we do this ? Thank you

I feel we should discuss any Anon coin as long as its related to similar protocols so they are comparable.. If you want a thread on a one vs one, then i suggest you create a self moderated topic so you can do that.

Yeah , i didn't want to spam but thats how i understood it also, you seen my pro con list for OP FreedomCoin?

[rethink-your-strategy]

Why reinvent the wheel? Just use Electrum (open source!) or SPV.

Probably because XC offers both completely anonymous transactions and instant p2p encrypted messaging.  In other words, XC offers a complete platform that protects one's rights to privacy.  Bye NSA.

I don't think you understand what the adults are talking about. Go watch your cartoons and we can talk later, ok?

[FreedomCoin]

There was a clear talk that both coin community's agreed that we would make a external thread so we can talk everything inside this that have to do with Darkcoin and cloakcoin because of the fud and spam we/you get in the main thread and the darkcoin "jokers" are crying why we delete their posts.

Yes you are correct, that was the plan. But policing the thread is not my style, nor can i do so on a work day handling everything else i am doing. Sorry for changing the direction of this thread.... Feel free to create a new self moderated thread and link it here.

[FreedomCoin]

Does anyone know if Darknet sites are accepting these Anon coins?

[Sleepyx]

Does anyone know if Darknet sites are accepting these Anon coins?

Theres one that says they will add them, both dark and cloak, once they are open source, they can't trust anything while its closed.

[oblox]

Does anyone know if Darknet sites are accepting these Anon coins?

Probably not going to see a ton of acceptance until sources are released and the code vetted that they do in fact provide the anonymity that users are looking for.

[FreedomCoin]

Makes sense, and for the sites that use escrow they do not want their used coin to collapse and then people asking what happened to the funds.

[illodin]

The goal when ddos'ing nodes is to first set up many nodes yourself, then ddos the other nodes, so you can then have a control of big enough percentage of the nodes so you can spy the transactions with good enough success.

Again, since transactions are fragmented into small pieces and then sent through the network, this attack would not be effective.  The attacker could try to spy the network, but the truth of the matter is that the remaining good nodes are still going to end up handling the transactions, however few they may be.  But again, since every single wallet is a node, I just don't see this attack being feasible.

How can you tell which nodes are good and which nodes are spying? You can't.

You can't spy productively on XC nodes because private transactions are fragmented and because every node forwards them trustless. This creates a scenario where there's no telling if the sender/recipient of a fragment is the original sender or final recipient, and there's no telling whether the amount sent is the whole amount.

Furthermore since fragments can be sent, even non-private transactions become "private" in this respect, since the amount sent could be a fragment, and so a spy has no grounds to assert that the amount sent/received is the total amount, or that the sender/recipient is the original sender/final recipient.

If the attacker is controlling nodes A and B, and they both receive fragments (= XC encrypted messages?) from the same IP at the same time, he knows that is the IP of the sender, not another node forwarding fragments. And if the attacker is controlling all nodes in a path starting from A or B, he knows the sending and receiving addresses. Or is this totally wrong?

[synechist]

The goal when ddos'ing nodes is to first set up many nodes yourself, then ddos the other nodes, so you can then have a control of big enough percentage of the nodes so you can spy the transactions with good enough success.

Again, since transactions are fragmented into small pieces and then sent through the network, this attack would not be effective.  The attacker could try to spy the network, but the truth of the matter is that the remaining good nodes are still going to end up handling the transactions, however few they may be.  But again, since every single wallet is a node, I just don't see this attack being feasible.

How can you tell which nodes are good and which nodes are spying? You can't.

You can't spy productively on XC nodes because private transactions are fragmented and because every node forwards them trustless. This creates a scenario where there's no telling if the sender/recipient of a fragment is the original sender or final recipient, and there's no telling whether the amount sent is the whole amount.

Furthermore since fragments can be sent, even non-private transactions become "private" in this respect, since the amount sent could be a fragment, and so a spy has no grounds to assert that the amount sent/received is the total amount, or that the sender/recipient is the original sender/final recipient.

If the attacker is controlling nodes A and B, and they both receive fragments (= XC encrypted messages?) from the same IP at the same time, he knows that is the IP of the sender, not another node forwarding fragments. And if the attacker is controlling all nodes in a path starting from A or B, he knows the sending and receiving addresses. Or is this totally wrong?

Hmm... let's say that an attacker controlling two nodes receives fragments from a single other node at the same time:

- the node's IP will be concealed due to it being either on TOR or something proprietary which I can't reveal yet. (TOR is current - the XC TOR Stick is releasing on Thur next week; it's its own OS, runs as a TOR node, and does payments and XChat. However in future there are other, even more secure plans...)

- the node will be identifiable as the sender of the fragments

- the node will not be identifiable as the originator of the payment that the fragments partly comprise

- the node will not be identifiable as the sender of the payment

- if it's a message rather than a private payment, it's not forwarded but sent directly to the recipient and encrypted from end to end, so to snoop on it you'd need to decrypt it (which is computationally infeasible).

- even if attacker nodes happen to receive all the fragments of a transaction, there will be no way to know that this is the case, and so the amount sent will not be ascertainable.

[illodin]

- the node will be identifiable as the sender of the fragments

- the node will not be identifiable as the originator of the payment that the fragments partly comprise

So any node within a path can divide it to further fragments? This mean that the node count involved in a path grows exponentially?

[synechist]

- the node will be identifiable as the sender of the fragments

- the node will not be identifiable as the originator of the payment that the fragments partly comprise

So any node within a path can divide it to further fragments? This mean that the node count involved in a path grows exponentially?

No, it just means that any given node can't tell whether what it's received is the original transaction or a fragment.

[policymaker]

- the node will be identifiable as the sender of the fragments

- the node will not be identifiable as the originator of the payment that the fragments partly comprise

So any node within a path can divide it to further fragments? This mean that the node count involved in a path grows exponentially?

No, it just means that any given node can't tell whether what it's received is the original transaction or a fragment.

So XC teamm announced its working on making the wallet/app Skype like, albeit totally anonymous and decentralized. Surely that must be worth some looking into. But no, lets argue whether s topic should be moderated or not...

[rethink-your-strategy]

So XC teamm announced its working on making the wallet/app Skype like, albeit totally anonymous and decentralized. Surely that must be worth some looking into. But no, lets argue whether s topic should be moderated or not...

I can announce all sorts of bullshit, doesn't make it viable, workable, or even doable. Let's wait and see if they deliver on something that works AND is cryptographically sound.