Pros and Cons to Anon coins, Including Darkcoin / Cloakcoin, lets discuss them.

[policymaker]

So XC teamm announced its working on making the wallet/app Skype like, albeit totally anonymous and decentralized. Surely that must be worth some looking into. But no, lets argue whether s topic should be moderated or not...

I can announce all sorts of bullshit, doesn't make it viable, workable, or even doable. Let's wait and see if they deliver on something that works AND is cryptographically sound.

your concerns are legit, but if you had been keeping an eye on the team for the past 2 months, like many holders did, you would know this is something not to be taken lightly. XC team is probably among the 2 or 3 teams actually treating this as legit software on the making, providing updates and delivering on several fronts, + some surprises.

[synechist]

So XC teamm announced its working on making the wallet/app Skype like, albeit totally anonymous and decentralized. Surely that must be worth some looking into. But no, lets argue whether s topic should be moderated or not...

I can announce all sorts of bullshit, doesn't make it viable, workable, or even doable. Let's wait and see if they deliver on something that works AND is cryptographically sound.

Just go download Rev 2.45 or XChat RC 6 and see for yourself. Both work, and both are and will continue to be tested (with bounties).

I'm not sure how high your standards are but the goal is for XC to be bulletproof by Rev 3. And at their current (early) stage of development XC is solid, and working.

Lastly if you keep up with the XC team you'll know that these future-oriented announcements are not said lightly. We're under a lot of pressure because people's expectations are very high; the price will crash very hard if we're even late for an update, never mind if we were to fail. So we do not make promises we're not confident we can deliver on.

[rethink-your-strategy]

Just go download Rev 2.45 or XChat RC 6 and see for yourself. Both work, and both are and will continue to be tested (with bounties).

I'm not sure how high your standards are but the goal is for XC to be bulletproof by Rev 3. And at their current (early) stage of development XC is solid, and working.

Lastly if you keep up with the XC team you'll know that these future-oriented announcements are not said lightly. We're under a lot of pressure because people's expectations are very high; the price will crash very hard if we're even late for an update, never mind if we were to fail. So we do not make promises we're not confident we can deliver on.

All I see on the site are binaries - is it closed source???

[synechist]

Just go download Rev 2.45 or XChat RC 6 and see for yourself. Both work, and both are and will continue to be tested (with bounties).

I'm not sure how high your standards are but the goal is for XC to be bulletproof by Rev 3. And at their current (early) stage of development XC is solid, and working.

Lastly if you keep up with the XC team you'll know that these future-oriented announcements are not said lightly. We're under a lot of pressure because people's expectations are very high; the price will crash very hard if we're even late for an update, never mind if we were to fail. So we do not make promises we're not confident we can deliver on.

All I see on the site are binaries - is it closed source???

No.

XC recently released the code for the Rev 1 (trusted) mixer (which KeyCoin has happily adopted).

XC is currently using its Rev 2 trustless mixer (which is a world-first).

Here's XC's stance on open-source:

Q:  Is XC open sourced? 

A:  XC is committed to the open source model. Open source code is vital for the health and advancement of cryptographic technologies, and it is a privilege to share our technical breakthroughs with a community such as this. We believe that XC's code embodies several world-firsts enabling anonymity that is scalable, mobile-friendly, POS-integrated, and is ultimately a platform upon which a broad range of Blockchain 2.0 technologies will be built.

However people’s faith in cryptocurrency projects is significantly hindered by clones. Therefore we believe that the ethical way to engage with the community is to make our code available on a delayed timeline. This way, the community will still benefit from our work, while we'd reduce the incentive for developers to flood the marketplace with clones that lack a long term future and reduce the trustworthiness of the altcoin phenomenon. XC represents several market-leading innovations, and we are honoured to make these available to the community in the near future.

http://xc-official.com/faq-page/

[MasterMined710]

Darkcoin (pow) is the number 1 anon coin followed by bitshares x (dpos) (titan).
Delegated Proof of Stake - Let's Talk Bitcoin Episode 129
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdBpoRLmrbA&list=WL#t=726

http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/TITAN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDvXZMQNnhE

after xc and cloaks posa were decloaked i'm really surprised people are still even buying them. to be fair people are not buying xc anymore and cloak just started its dump phase.
https://darkcointalk.org/threads/cloaksend-2-0-posa-fake-or-legit.1868/

Cloakcoin:

Pros:

Trading volume is much higher around 3 times the amount.

This higher volume has only been for 2 days. yesterday (the pump) and today (the dump).

Cons:
POS rollback coin



Dark Coin:


Cons:

Uses a CoinJoin clone for anon trading of coins. Which has been shown to have flaws, see “CoinJoinSudoku”. http://www.coinjoinsudoku.com/advisory/

A More accurate description would be that darksend (working with 10 drk limit) uses a advanced denominated coinjoin implementation that has not been cracked. Darksend+ (early aug release scheduled) goes way deeper and will provide the best most secure  long term choice for anon compared to everything currently working and the proposed vaporware from competition. i put bitshares x (working anon)  2nd because it is a pos coin. the working anon and the dpos sets it apart from the problems of old ppc/nxt pos based coins like cloak & xc.



XCurrency:


Cons:

Hard to tell what is vaporware claims and what is actually working in gui wallet.

[MasterMined710]

I am curious how long it will take to send and receive coins when going through 8 MNs. Seeing RC4 live should answer that.

The Darkcoin client will now store pre-mixed, denominated Darkcoins in the user’s wallet, to be used instantly at any time the user desires. The mixing and denomination process is seamless, automatic, and requires no intervention on the part of the user. The 10 DRK limit previously in place with Darksend v1 will be permanently removed.
https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-updates-july-15th.1788/

[MasterMined710]

- XC is the only project with an already-implemented anonymity solution that is currently working.

is it working? last i saw a few weeks ago it was not working in the gui wallet (still command line, right?). after the odd midnight rev release a few weeks ago i quit watching that thread. please update me if that has changed.

[MasterMined710]

Does Dark, Cloak, XC and Monero have an advanced difficulty retargeting system?

yes, darkcoin has dgw which i have been very impressed with. cloak and xc are pos and i don't follow the cryptobloat coins as they have no future for the many reasons already listed.

[policymaker]

How on earth was XC "decloaked" ? It has nothing to do with cloakcoin or its tech. There will be no problem with bloating blockchain, and the reason the anon rev is stalled for gui is because the encrypted messaging was being worked. There have been many releases since "a few weeks ago". Don't take my words for it, if you consider yourself an intelligent individual just go search the topic and official XC forums for yourself, but don't just throw FUD around like that.

[MasterMined710]

All of the CryptoNote coins do (Monero, Boolberry, Bytecoin (BCN) etc.) They have working anonymity from their launch. If you take Bytecoin's claim at face value (it's pretty clear it's bullshit) they have been around for 2 years. Even knowing that it's likely a false claim meant to cover up their 82% premine, you still come face-to-face with an indisputable fact: Bytecoin's first commit to github was on 15 November 2013, and already then the code worked and provided cryptographically untraceable and unlinkable transactions. Monero, too, was launched (fairly) on 18 April 2014, before XC even came into existence.

As much as I think Bytecoin is a fail because of their premine, they are the ONLY ones that can lay claim to having the FIRST "working anonymity". Monero and the all the other CryptoNote coins can lay claim to being the ONLY cryptocurrencies that currently have a 100% working solution to cryptographically untraceable and unlinkable transactions.

If you don't believe me, pick any transaction on the Monero blockchain (eg. http://monerochain.info/tx/49ee290a4e65bc554382089d778c1ac26b20a5b6044d3fa4b1767780e2617546) and try figure out the address of the person that sent the coins, the address of the person they were sending to, and they amount. I'll gladly even setup two wallets and transfer between them and give you the transaction ID to give it a try. Oh and these transactions are instantaneous, no waiting for a mixing hop to finish or anything.

what about the scalability problem from bloating and the mass adoption issue of non provable transactions. seems like those issues would prevent mass adoption.

[MasterMined710]

it also means that a bad actor can setup (or compromise) just a single masternode in order to identify the IP address of every single node.

looks like darksend+ solves that previous issue with darksend...
https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-updates-july-15th.1788/

add ip obfuscation on top of that and done...
https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-update-july-30th.1924/#post-13924

[MasterMined710]

There'll be absolutely masses of running nodes on XC's network.

Because of XChat:

https://i.imgur.com/D57dl0F.jpg

I don't get it but ok I guess. 

I don't get it either. i have no want or need to use xchat. not a feature i would use unless send payment in which case i would just use bitshares x which is working and not promised vapor.

[MasterMined710]

You can't spy productively on XC nodes because private transactions are fragmented and because every node forwards them trustless. This creates a scenario where there's no telling if the sender/recipient of a fragment is the original sender or final recipient, and there's no telling whether the amount sent is the whole amount.

Furthermore since fragments can be sent, even non-private transactions become "private" in this respect, since the amount sent could be a fragment, and so a spy has no grounds to assert that the amount sent/received is the total amount, or that the sender/recipient is the original sender/final recipient.

"You can't" or you won't be able to when rev 3 is released? you're talking vaporware right now right? when will this be released?

[MasterMined710]

XC offers both completely anonymous transactions and instant p2p encrypted messaging.  In other words, XC offers a complete platform that protects one's rights to privacy.  Bye NSA.

working or vaporware? when is all this stuff supposed to happen, rev 3? release date?

[MasterMined710]

If, for instance, there are 50% of the nodes hosted on Amazon infrastructure (a likely event if the resources required exceeds that available in most virtualised environments), how would you know if Amazon was subpoena'd and the FBI or the NSA or whoever had access to >50% of the MasterNodes? Knowing their up/down status is one thing, knowing if the host OS their VPS is running on is compromised or not is another entirely.

it won't matter with darksend+ (early aug release).
https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-updates-july-15th.1788/

add ip obfuscation on top of that and done...
https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-update-july-30th.1924/#post-13924

[MasterMined710]

How on earth was XC "decloaked" ? It has nothing to do with cloakcoin or its tech. There will be no problem with bloating blockchain, and the reason the anon rev is stalled for gui is because the encrypted messaging was being worked. There have been many releases since "a few weeks ago". Don't take my words for it, if you consider yourself an intelligent individual just go search the topic and official XC forums for yourself, but don't just throw FUD around like that.

xc anon was cracked by chaeplin but they are redoing it now. i don't have time to keep up with xc anymore and have moved on, sorry. it's too hard to tell what they have working and what is just more vapor. they talk like everything is working but all i see is vapor. please educate me to what is working now and what is just planned for release (rev 3) and when. good to see they have some bounties unlike cloak.

[policymaker]

How on earth was XC "decloaked" ? It has nothing to do with cloakcoin or its tech. There will be no problem with bloating blockchain, and the reason the anon rev is stalled for gui is because the encrypted messaging was being worked. There have been many releases since "a few weeks ago". Don't take my words for it, if you consider yourself an intelligent individual just go search the topic and official XC forums for yourself, but don't just throw FUD around like that.

xc anon was cracked by chaeplin but they are redoing it now. i don't have time to keep up with xc anymore and have moved on, sorry. it's too hard to tell what they have working and what is just more vapor. they talk like everything is working but all i see is vapor. please educate me to what is working now and what is just planned for release (rev 3) and when. good to see they have some bounties unlike cloak.

wtf are you talking about. you either clearly have been out of the scene for too long, or just plain fuding, and badly that is.

XC and Dark dev released same statement that FUD wars have to stop. XC and DKR communities havent been shitting each other for like almost a month now.

Apart from that, I won't "educate" you, for two reasons: For once, you are not willing to acknowledge anything, its not the first time I ve seen a troll here. In addition, if you would kindly check one or two pages back, you would find everything you asked for, with links and analysis by synechist, a real member of the XC team. Nothing is vapor, but then again, go check it yourself.

And one last thing, chaeplin never really cracked the REV1 anonymity, but what he did back then is completely irrelevant to what we have now, with XC being on rev2.45, its tech is just ahead of competition, and frankly much more better than REV1. Not to mention that, cheaplin has actually been quite helpful since then, sharing some DKR guides that can be applied to XC wallet users thanx to nodes technology.

And we couldnt care less whether you have time for XC, we just dont need you infesting the board with May-FUD. Geez.

[MasterMined710]

How on earth was XC "decloaked" ? It has nothing to do with cloakcoin or its tech. There will be no problem with bloating blockchain, and the reason the anon rev is stalled for gui is because the encrypted messaging was being worked. There have been many releases since "a few weeks ago". Don't take my words for it, if you consider yourself an intelligent individual just go search the topic and official XC forums for yourself, but don't just throw FUD around like that.

xc anon was cracked by chaeplin but they are redoing it now. i don't have time to keep up with xc anymore and have moved on, sorry. it's too hard to tell what they have working and what is just more vapor. they talk like everything is working but all i see is vapor. please educate me to what is working now and what is just planned for release (rev 3) and when. good to see they have some bounties unlike cloak.

wtf are you talking about. you either clearly have been out of the scene for too long, or just plain fuding, and badly that is.

XC and Dark dev released same statement that FUD wars have to stop. XC and DKR communities havent been shitting each other for like almost a month now.

Apart from that, I won't "educate" you, for two reasons: For once, you are not willing to acknowledge anything, its not the first time I ve seen a troll here. In addition, if you would kindly check one or two pages back, you would find everything you asked for, with links and analysis by synechist, a real member of the XC team. Nothing is vapor, but then again, go check it yourself.

And one last thing, chaeplin never really cracked the REV1 anonymity, but what he did back then is completely irrelevant to what we have now, with XC being on rev2.45, its tech is just ahead of competition, and frankly much more better than REV1. Not to mention that, cheaplin has actually been quite helpful since then, sharing some DKR guides that can be applied to XC wallet users thanx to nodes technology.

And we couldnt care less whether you have time for XC, we just dont need you infesting the board with May-FUD. Geez.

this is why i unwatched the xc thread and moved on, no solid answers to be had. good luck with your project. maybe someone more informed will opine. my main issue is telling vapor from working features and solid release dates for claimed features.

[policymaker]

How on earth was XC "decloaked" ? It has nothing to do with cloakcoin or its tech. There will be no problem with bloating blockchain, and the reason the anon rev is stalled for gui is because the encrypted messaging was being worked. There have been many releases since "a few weeks ago". Don't take my words for it, if you consider yourself an intelligent individual just go search the topic and official XC forums for yourself, but don't just throw FUD around like that.

xc anon was cracked by chaeplin but they are redoing it now. i don't have time to keep up with xc anymore and have moved on, sorry. it's too hard to tell what they have working and what is just more vapor. they talk like everything is working but all i see is vapor. please educate me to what is working now and what is just planned for release (rev 3) and when. good to see they have some bounties unlike cloak.

wtf are you talking about. you either clearly have been out of the scene for too long, or just plain fuding, and badly that is.

XC and Dark dev released same statement that FUD wars have to stop. XC and DKR communities havent been shitting each other for like almost a month now.

Apart from that, I won't "educate" you, for two reasons: For once, you are not willing to acknowledge anything, its not the first time I ve seen a troll here. In addition, if you would kindly check one or two pages back, you would find everything you asked for, with links and analysis by synechist, a real member of the XC team. Nothing is vapor, but then again, go check it yourself.

And one last thing, chaeplin never really cracked the REV1 anonymity, but what he did back then is completely irrelevant to what we have now, with XC being on rev2.45, its tech is just ahead of competition, and frankly much more better than REV1. Not to mention that, cheaplin has actually been quite helpful since then, sharing some DKR guides that can be applied to XC wallet users thanx to nodes technology.

And we couldnt care less whether you have time for XC, we just dont need you infesting the board with May-FUD. Geez.

this is why i unwatched the xc thread and moved on, no solid answers to be had. good luck with your project. maybe someone more informed will opine. my main issue is telling vapor from working features and solid release dates for claimed features.

I admit im not qualified to answer tech questions, but everything you seek can be found in synechist answers' and XC OP. Its all there provided to you by synechist himself in the previous page. Stop being a tool and check it out, your FUD attempt is disgusting!

[Coolstoryteller]

Just a heads up on MasterMind710. He's responsible for the Cloak FUD subreddits and most of the baseless comments in the sections of Cloak related articles and videos. The only thing backing up his claims is his investment in DRK masternodes..

Moving forward.

1)
Since when is the right to privacy of developers a CON? Cloak developers have done more in the last month than most other coins have done in the last nine. Please explain to me how advocates of anon technology also advocate that developers reveal themselves in order for their work to be taking seriously. If you believe anon to be a negative factor in development, then the same argument will be made later down the road for merchants using anonymous currencies. Remember Satoshi was a fellow anon. Just because a new altcoin popped up with developers willing to expose themselves doesn't mean it is a recipe for success; Morever, this should not validate their work or their abilities.

I would hope the OP would reconsider his criteria for PRO/CON in relation to personal privacy.

2)
Please show me at least one alt-coin that has invested money into a high-level independent audit - closed or open. I'm not talking about Kristov Atlas, I'm saying a real authoritative audit from a place like www.opencryptoaudit.org. These places are backed up 3-5 months in advance and the costs are upwards of $50k+. It's comes out to around $5,000+ a week per auditor. It's one thing to sit in this forum and play armchair auditor it's another thing to do it for a living. I'm an investor for Cloak and I'm willing to fund 100% of the independent audit for PoSA. I doubt anyone here is willing to do the same for their investment. I'm already speaking with various candidates and their results will eventually be made public when finished. Dagger, the project lead for Cloak clocks in 20+hour days as do the others on the team. This type of commitment is all I need to validate my investment in a professional audit. The crypto space is one of the most vile and disgusting communities on the internet. Shameless promotions and baseless accusations are all the norm here. Innovation is ripped from another coin and re-branded almost the same day the source is published. It's not a surprise that developers who innovate are moving to more of a closed source development cycle to protect their investors.

Pony up and do the same for your coin because once these results come in your internal reviews won't hold a candle to Cloaks.

3)
A detailed diagram has been released that outlines the inner workings of the Proof-Of-Stake Anon (PoSA) protocol. There is a public beta available for Cloak's PoSA. Feel free to join the IRC #CloakCoin. There are 7 core developers working on Cloak in addition to 5 other developers working on supporting projects. Anyone of them is available to answer questions. There is a diagram on the way that will be easier to read for those who have trouble understanding this one.

Update:

There's been quite a lot of pressure for us to release in greater details, information about our finished anon product.

The whitepaper was deliberately made sparse to avoid attempts at copying from an early stage.

Cloak PoSA is well advanced now so we can now reveal a more indepth paper that shows how our finished Proof of Stake Anonymity system works.

PoSA is entirely trustless and solves the Byzantine Generals problem.





A first look at CloakPal coming tomorrow.