Pros and Cons to Anon coins, Including Darkcoin / Cloakcoin, lets discuss them.

[illodin]

Just a heads up on MasterMind710. He's responsible for the Cloak FUD subreddits and most of the baseless comments in the sections of Cloak related articles and videos. The only thing backing up his claims is his investment in DRK masternodes..

No idea if this is true but MasterMind710 please let's try to keep at least this thread readable and more "technical".

[SomethingElse]

They all suck. I'm waiting for a real wallet/mixing service/coin. 

[stealth923]

Just a heads up on MasterMind710. He's responsible for the Cloak FUD subreddits and most of the baseless comments in the sections of Cloak related articles and videos. The only thing backing up his claims is his investment in DRK masternodes..

Moving forward.

1)
Since when is the right to privacy of developers a CON? Cloak developers have done more in the last month than most other coins have done in the last nine. Please explain to me how advocates of anon technology also advocate that developers reveal themselves in order for their work to be taking seriously. If you believe anon to be a negative factor in development, then the same argument will be made later down the road for merchants using anonymous currencies. Remember Satoshi was a fellow anon. Just because a new altcoin popped up with developers willing to expose themselves doesn't mean it is a recipe for success; Morever, this should not validate their work or their abilities.

I would hope the OP would reconsider his criteria for PRO/CON in relation to personal privacy.

2)
Please show me at least one alt-coin that has invested money into a high-level independent audit - closed or open. I'm not talking about Kristov Atlas, I'm saying a real authoritative audit from a place like www.opencryptoaudit.org. These places are backed up 3-5 months in advance and the costs are upwards of $50k+. It's comes out to around $5,000+ a week per auditor. It's one thing to sit in this forum and play armchair auditor it's another thing to do it for a living. I'm an investor for Cloak and I'm willing to fund 100% of the independent audit for PoSA. I doubt anyone here is willing to do the same for their investment. I'm already speaking with various candidates and their results will eventually be made public when finished. Dagger, the project lead for Cloak clocks in 20+hour days as do the others on the team. This type of commitment is all I need to validate my investment in a professional audit. The crypto space is one of the most vile and disgusting communities on the internet. Shameless promotions and baseless accusations are all the norm here. Innovation is ripped from another coin and re-branded almost the same day the source is published. It's not a surprise that developers who innovate are moving to more of a closed source development cycle to protect their investors.

Pony up and do the same for your coin because once these results come in your internal reviews won't hold a candle to Cloaks.

3)
A detailed diagram has been released that outlines the inner workings of the Proof-Of-Stake Anon (PoSA) protocol. There is a public beta available for Cloak's PoSA. Feel free to join the IRC #CloakCoin. There are 7 core developers working on Cloak in addition to 5 other developers working on supporting projects. Anyone of them is available to answer questions. There is a diagram on the way that will be easier to read for those who have trouble understanding this one.

Update:

There's been quite a lot of pressure for us to release in greater details, information about our finished anon product.

The whitepaper was deliberately made sparse to avoid attempts at copying from an early stage.

Cloak PoSA is well advanced now so we can now reveal a more indepth paper that shows how our finished Proof of Stake Anonymity system works.

PoSA is entirely trustless and solves the Byzantine Generals problem.

1) There are so many scams in the altcoin world - anonymous devs usually now have something to hide. If you have the skills and experience to code something this complex you had better have the experience and industry experience to back it up. My opinion is that cloak dev's are high school kids based on their basic attempts at diagrams and immature non-professional language, meaning they have limited experience in the corporate world.

2) I call utter bullshit, I will organise escrow right now if you are willing to fund the 50k+ review for cloak. You might as well throw it down the drain. Additionally you wouldn't even be considered with that hilarious diagram, do you even know the pre-requisites required for a review board. I guess not.

3) Please head over to this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=713836.msg8130099#msg8130099 where there are already flaws being discussed in the diagram and how trivial it really is.

[Coolstoryteller]

Just a heads up on MasterMind710. He's responsible for the Cloak FUD subreddits and most of the baseless comments in the sections of Cloak related articles and videos. The only thing backing up his claims is his investment in DRK masternodes..

Moving forward.

1)
Since when is the right to privacy of developers a CON? Cloak developers have done more in the last month than most other coins have done in the last nine. Please explain to me how advocates of anon technology also advocate that developers reveal themselves in order for their work to be taking seriously. If you believe anon to be a negative factor in development, then the same argument will be made later down the road for merchants using anonymous currencies. Remember Satoshi was a fellow anon. Just because a new altcoin popped up with developers willing to expose themselves doesn't mean it is a recipe for success; Morever, this should not validate their work or their abilities.

I would hope the OP would reconsider his criteria for PRO/CON in relation to personal privacy.

2)
Please show me at least one alt-coin that has invested money into a high-level independent audit - closed or open. I'm not talking about Kristov Atlas, I'm saying a real authoritative audit from a place like www.opencryptoaudit.org. These places are backed up 3-5 months in advance and the costs are upwards of $50k+. It's comes out to around $5,000+ a week per auditor. It's one thing to sit in this forum and play armchair auditor it's another thing to do it for a living. I'm an investor for Cloak and I'm willing to fund 100% of the independent audit for PoSA. I doubt anyone here is willing to do the same for their investment. I'm already speaking with various candidates and their results will eventually be made public when finished. Dagger, the project lead for Cloak clocks in 20+hour days as do the others on the team. This type of commitment is all I need to validate my investment in a professional audit. The crypto space is one of the most vile and disgusting communities on the internet. Shameless promotions and baseless accusations are all the norm here. Innovation is ripped from another coin and re-branded almost the same day the source is published. It's not a surprise that developers who innovate are moving to more of a closed source development cycle to protect their investors.

Pony up and do the same for your coin because once these results come in your internal reviews won't hold a candle to Cloaks.

3)
A detailed diagram has been released that outlines the inner workings of the Proof-Of-Stake Anon (PoSA) protocol. There is a public beta available for Cloak's PoSA. Feel free to join the IRC #CloakCoin. There are 7 core developers working on Cloak in addition to 5 other developers working on supporting projects. Anyone of them is available to answer questions. There is a diagram on the way that will be easier to read for those who have trouble understanding this one.

Update:

There's been quite a lot of pressure for us to release in greater details, information about our finished anon product.

The whitepaper was deliberately made sparse to avoid attempts at copying from an early stage.

Cloak PoSA is well advanced now so we can now reveal a more indepth paper that shows how our finished Proof of Stake Anonymity system works.

PoSA is entirely trustless and solves the Byzantine Generals problem.

1) There are so many scams in the altcoin world - anonymous devs usually now have something to hide. If you have the skills and experience to code something this complex you had better have the experience and industry experience to back it up. My opinion is that cloak dev's are high school kids based on their basic attempts at diagrams and imamture non-professional language, meaning they have limited experience in the corporate world.

2) I call utter bullshit, I will organise escrow right now if you are willing to fund the 50k+ review for cloak. You might as well throw it down the drain. Additionally you wouldn't even be considered with that hilarious diagram, do you even know the pre-requisites required for a review board. I guess not.

3) Please head over to this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=713836.msg8130099#msg8130099 where there are already flaws being discussed in the diagram and how trivial it really is.

1)
"Usually have something to hide" you might as well apply for a job with the FBI, CIA or NSA because this isn't the thread for you bud. If you think being an advocate of personal privacy is a negative concept you're in the wrong thread. Opinions are like assholes - everyone has one. All I hear from you is translated into "Blah Blah Darkcoin Blah Blah Masternodes Blah Blah Anonymous Devs = Scam Blah Blah"

2)
You can call all the bullshit all you want, it has no bearing on the situation. My money isn't going to you or anyone you organize. The diagrams and whitepapers in my possession have been sufficient to start the initial process. I'd like to know how you know anything about a professional crypto audit from an independent authority like opencryptoaudit. You still have failed to name one altcoin that has gone through a high level audit.

3)
Strasborg's self-moderated thread? I think I'll pass on that. He's an admitted Supercoin investor and that thread is a shameless promotional attempt to draw attention to Supercoin.

[stealth923]

3)
Strasborg's self-moderated thread? I think I'll pass on that. He's an admitted Supercoin investor and that thread is a shameless promotional attempt to draw attention to Supercoin.

Not going to bother with your other answers as they were all excuses and diversions as to the heart of the problem that I exposed in my original statements.

But go look in the thread for #3 dont hide away like the cloak devs......I dont care who Strasborg is, there are many other contributors now laughing at cloak and exposing how flawed the design and diagram is.

 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=713836.msg8130099#msg8130099

[illodin]

3)
Strasborg's self-moderated thread? I think I'll pass on that. He's an admitted Supercoin investor and that thread is a shameless promotional attempt to draw attention to Supercoin.

Ad hominem deluxe.

[synechist]

- XC is the only project with an already-implemented anonymity solution that is currently working.

is it working? last i saw a few weeks ago it was not working in the gui wallet (still command line, right?). after the odd midnight rev release a few weeks ago i quit watching that thread. please update me if that has changed.

It's working. Download XC Rev 2.45 here.

[synechist]

There'll be absolutely masses of running nodes on XC's network.

Because of XChat:

https://i.imgur.com/D57dl0F.jpg

I don't get it but ok I guess. 

I don't get it either. i have no want or need to use xchat. not a feature i would use unless send payment in which case i would just use bitshares x which is working and not promised vapor.

This is not vapour. It's working.

Download XChat RC 6 here, and then send me a message using the details on my sig.

[synechist]

This is not vapour. It's working.

Download XChat RC 6 here, and then send me a message using the details on my sig.

As for the future, this is vaporware that XC will bring to market post-Rev 3:

***The XC Daily Update***


Hello all

It's been confirmed by the developers that XChat will include voice calling in post-Rev 3 editions, and video calling further into the future.

So basically we have a decentralised, private, Skype.





Here's to the future!

[synechist]

You can't spy productively on XC nodes because private transactions are fragmented and because every node forwards them trustless. This creates a scenario where there's no telling if the sender/recipient of a fragment is the original sender or final recipient, and there's no telling whether the amount sent is the whole amount.

Furthermore since fragments can be sent, even non-private transactions become "private" in this respect, since the amount sent could be a fragment, and so a spy has no grounds to assert that the amount sent/received is the total amount, or that the sender/recipient is the original sender/final recipient.

"You can't" or you won't be able to when rev 3 is released? you're talking vaporware right now right? when will this be released?

My comment above refers to the existing Rev 2.45 release.

Download it, try it out.

[synechist]

There'll be absolutely masses of running nodes on XC's network.

Because of XChat:

https://i.imgur.com/D57dl0F.jpg

I don't get it but ok I guess. 

I don't get it either. i have no want or need to use xchat. not a feature i would use unless send payment in which case i would just use bitshares x which is working and not promised vapor.

This is not vapour. It's working.

Download XChat RC 6 here, and then send me a message using the details on my sig.

Just in case you're not quite convinced, here's a screenshot of XChat RC 6 (the current test release) on my computer:

[synechist]

XC offers both completely anonymous transactions and instant p2p encrypted messaging.  In other words, XC offers a complete platform that protects one's rights to privacy.  Bye NSA.

working or vaporware? when is all this stuff supposed to happen, rev 3? release date?

Once again, this stuff has happened already.


To sum it all up:

Rev 2.45 (private payments).

XChat RC 6 (true P2P instant messaging with end-to-end encryption)

XC TOR Stick (releasing on Thursday; doesn't use TOR exit nodes so packet sniffers can't find you)

[synechist]

How on earth was XC "decloaked" ? It has nothing to do with cloakcoin or its tech. There will be no problem with bloating blockchain, and the reason the anon rev is stalled for gui is because the encrypted messaging was being worked. There have been many releases since "a few weeks ago". Don't take my words for it, if you consider yourself an intelligent individual just go search the topic and official XC forums for yourself, but don't just throw FUD around like that.

xc anon was cracked by chaeplin but they are redoing it now. i don't have time to keep up with xc anymore and have moved on, sorry. it's too hard to tell what they have working and what is just more vapor. they talk like everything is working but all i see is vapor. please educate me to what is working now and what is just planned for release (rev 3) and when. good to see they have some bounties unlike cloak.

Ah, that opinion. It's old FUD. Chaeplin didn't understand what was being tested.

Here's why.

[sisx2007]

All these three coins are good,these coins can work together,there is enough room for them!

[fluffypony]

what about the scalability problem from bloating and the mass adoption issue of non provable transactions. seems like those issues would prevent mass adoption.

Ooooh, this is my area of knowledge:)

Firstly, any mixing technology will also have bloat - you understand that, right? If it goes through 8 hops that's 8 entries in the blockchain. The ONLY advantage that a cryptocurrency using mixing has is that they *can* prune the blockchain (not that they have or even necessarily know how). There is no evidence to suggest that Monero can't prune its blockchain - it absolutely can. The only thing that is currently viewed as hard-to-do-maybe-to-the-point-of-being-impossible is pruning of the key image set and the utxoset, but the blockchain itself can be pruned right up to the highest block.

I also have never heard of Monero transactions being "non-provable". If that were the case your wallet wouldn't know that a particular transaction is meant for you. It does so by "proving" it is. Baked right into the protocol is a "view key" that can be used to expose multiple transactions, and each transaction has a one-time key that can be exposed to show the details of a transaction and confirm it is yours. Monero is, thus, cryptographically anonymous and unlinkable, and optionally transparent on a per-transaction basis. NB: The tooling to both reveal this and inspect it is still being written, but every transaction from the genesis block on has been functionally anonymous and has this optional transparency baked in.

How do other coins handle this? I mean, how do you reveal a transaction in Darkcoin/XC/Cloakcoin and prove it came from you?

[salmion]

what about the scalability problem from bloating and the mass adoption issue of non provable transactions. seems like those issues would prevent mass adoption.

Ooooh, this is my area of knowledge:)

Firstly, any mixing technology will also have bloat - you understand that, right? If it goes through 8 hops that's 8 entries in the blockchain. The ONLY advantage that a cryptocurrency using mixing has is that they *can* prune the blockchain (not that they have or even necessarily know how). There is no evidence to suggest that Monero can't prune its blockchain - it absolutely can. The only thing that is currently viewed as hard-to-do-maybe-to-the-point-of-being-impossible is pruning of the key image set and the utxoset, but the blockchain itself can be pruned right up to the highest block.

I also have never heard of Monero transactions being "non-provable". If that were the case your wallet wouldn't know that a particular transaction is meant for you. It does so by "proving" it is. Baked right into the protocol is a "view key" that can be used to expose multiple transactions, and each transaction has a one-time key that can be exposed to show the details of a transaction and confirm it is yours. Monero is, thus, cryptographically anonymous and unlinkable, and optionally transparent on a per-transaction basis. NB: The tooling to both reveal this and inspect it is still being written, but every transaction from the genesis block on has been functionally anonymous and has this optional transparency baked in.

How do other coins handle this? I mean, how do you reveal a transaction in Darkcoin/XC/Cloakcoin and prove it came from you?

Darkcoin's latest iteration of darksend to my knowledge premixes so that you can transact normally. ie. you still have a transaction number to refer to.

[HinnomTX]

What happens if Alty wants to send Cloakcoin to Joe but Joe is offline?

[FreedomCoin]

I would hope the OP would reconsider his criteria for PRO/CON in relation to personal privacy.

My feelings on this are in line with what Stealth stated, there are many devs out there that have quite insidious intentions. So by remaining anonymous you are not really able to look into the history of that dev. Also keep in mind there was a very short POW period, which we have no idea if the devs got the majority of those mined coins.. At least it seems like a more honest launch than many.

[RW-Stott]

XC offers both completely anonymous transactions and instant p2p encrypted messaging.  In other words, XC offers a complete platform that protects one's rights to privacy.  Bye NSA.

working or vaporware? when is all this stuff supposed to happen, rev 3? release date?

Once again, this stuff has released already.


To sum it all up:

Rev 2.45 (private payments).

XChat RC 6 (true P2P instant messaging with end-to-end encryption)

XC TOR Stick (releasing on Thursday; doesn't use TOR exit nodes so packet sniffers can't find you)

It's been confirmed by the developers that XChat will include voice calling in post-Rev 3 editions, and video calling further into the future.

So basically we have a decentralised, private, Skype.

BOOM, Headshot!

[voxelot]

What happens if Alty wants to send Cloakcoin to Joe but Joe is offline?

Joe receives Altys CLOAK like any normal wallet.  Offline wallets have been tested to work. Since wallet build #19 of 27