0.19 J/GH - CoinBau looks for investors in German mining technology

[stompysteve]

I find 3 years a very long period in the Bitcoin ecosystem.

3 months sounds more reasonable....

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[cedivad]

So you want $15M to tapeout a new fantastic chip that will run at less than 0.2J/GH and will have an online cost of less than $1/GH. Fine, I can believe that.

The problem is that you want to take 15% of the market with it. How? As of now 15% of it is 30PH, and will be possibly 60PH by the time you are ready. By considering an online cost far lower than $1/GH ($0.5/GH), you would have to spend $30M...

How?

[HyperMega]

So you want $15M to tapeout a new fantastic chip that will run at less than 0.2J/GH and will have an online cost of less than $1/GH. Fine, I can believe that.

The problem is that you want to take 15% of the market with it. How? As of now 15% of it is 30PH, and will be possibly 60PH by the time you are ready. By considering an online cost far lower than $1/GH ($0.5/GH), you would have to spend $30M...

How?

They explain it here https://coinbau.com/files/cb_investment_brochure_web_en.pdf

Short version
- $15M for tape-out and first batches of 2nd gen miners
- reinvest mining profit to produce additional 2nd gen hardware to reach/keep 15%
- reinvest mining profit to develop and produce 14nm 3rd gen hardware

[cedivad]

To have mining profits, you need to have hardware. You don't have spare cash for hardware, and lowering the J/GH isn't a silver bullet, so I don't see what this magic plan is all about.

[HyperMega]

To have mining profits, you need to have hardware. You don't have spare cash for hardware, and lowering the J/GH isn't a silver bullet, so I don't see what this magic plan is all about.

I guess you are assuming that the tape-out costs for 28nm are about $15M?
Sorry, but these costs should not be higher than $2.5M. So they would still have $12.5M to produce probably more than 20PH with the raised money. Or did I get something wrong?

[cedivad]

Well, yes. That is the reasonable estimate everyone keeps repeating. hashfastisawesome spent 8M only for the tapeout, but that's another story (and I was confused by it).

Anyway the problem still stand: you won't get 15% of the market starting with the returns of 10PHs (that at this point I assume are paid for).

[jimmothy]

To have mining profits, you need to have hardware. You don't have spare cash for hardware, and lowering the J/GH isn't a silver bullet, so I don't see what this magic plan is all about.

I guess you are assuming that the tape-out costs for 28nm are about $15M?
Sorry, but these costs should not be higher than $2.5M. So they would still have $12.5M to produce probably more than 20PH with the raised money. Or did I get something wrong?

If production costs are $1/gh how can they produce/deploy 20ph for $12m?

I'm surprised so many people are assuming this is a legit company based on the lousy proof provided. I wouldn't be surprised if this was an offshoot of the MAT scam.

I think most people just don't care enough to demand they prove their company is legit because the offer is so lousy.

[HyperMega]

Well, yes. That is the reasonable estimate everyone keeps repeating. hashfastisawesome spent 8M only for the tapeout, but that's another story (and I was confused by it).

Anyway the problem still stand: you won't get 15% of the market starting with the returns of 10PHs (that at this point I assume are paid for).

They are saying that they made a concrete plan how to reach 15% based on worst case assumptions for development of the global hashrate and the BTC exchange rate. There are not much details about that in their investment document. If you want to know more, you have probably to contact them directly.

[HyperMega]

To have mining profits, you need to have hardware. You don't have spare cash for hardware, and lowering the J/GH isn't a silver bullet, so I don't see what this magic plan is all about.

I guess you are assuming that the tape-out costs for 28nm are about $15M?
Sorry, but these costs should not be higher than $2.5M. So they would still have $12.5M to produce probably more than 20PH with the raised money. Or did I get something wrong?

If production costs are $1/gh how can they produce/deploy 20ph for $12m?

I'm surprised so many people are assuming this is a legit company based on the lousy proof provided. I wouldn't be surprised if this was an offshoot of the MAT scam.

I think most people just don't care enough to demand they prove their company is legit because the offer is so lousy.

Marcus said that a potential retail price would be below $1/GH, but they are currently not planning to go to the retail market.
So far he said nothing about their productions costs.
My personal opinion is, it would not make sense to start such a project with production costs above $0.5, because than they would not be competitive even with a much better energy efficiency.

[HorseRider]

THIS IS A SCAM AS OP IS LYING

The OP stated that he is doing MPW, but he present us a full rack of miners.

MPW will only provides tens of chips, which is not enough for build so many miners.

If the OP is capable of doing a full rack of miners, he must be doing a full mask. he would have been able to produce thousands of miners.

Even if OP has taped out the MPW and get back the sample chips, we are pretty sure that he will scam his minority shareholders without any mercy as he are now using untruthful evidence to attract investment.

[RoadStress]

Plus the fact that we already had promises from BITMINE.ch for a 0.3W/GH and we all know how that ended up.

[FUKT]

As someone who in early March visited Holger and Sebastian I can honestly say these guys are the future of Bitcoin mining. Most companies will promise you the sun and everything under it, what surprised me about Asicrising but was what they didn't promise. They didn't make promises with regard to delivery, or speed and power, but rather they were very conservative, they would rather be honest than promise the earth.

I decided about 3 months ago to abandon my own endeavours in buying and investing bitcoin hardware but if I had to choose a company and team; Asicrising would be No.1 on my list

[FUKT]

THIS IS A SCAM AS OP IS LYING

The OP stated that he is doing MPW, but he present us a full rack of miners.

MPW will only provides tens of chips, which is not enough for build so many miners.

If the OP is capable of doing a full rack of miners, he must be doing a full mask. he would have been able to produce thousands of miners.

Even if OP has taped out the MPW and get back the sample chips, we are pretty sure that he will scam his minority shareholders without any mercy as he are now using untruthful evidence to attract investment.

I have actually seen these miners first hand (noisy as fuck), if you read their posts fully you would understand that they taped out and implemented miners in August last year on their gen1 designs. The veracity of your post indicates either a vested interest in calling asicrising liars or you are off your meds.

[brontosaurus]

THIS IS A SCAM AS OP IS LYING

The OP stated that he is doing MPW, but he present us a full rack of miners.

MPW will only provides tens of chips, which is not enough for build so many miners.

If the OP is capable of doing a full rack of miners, he must be doing a full mask. he would have been able to produce thousands of miners.

Even if OP has taped out the MPW and get back the sample chips, we are pretty sure that he will scam his minority shareholders without any mercy as he are now using untruthful evidence to attract investment.

In a MPW run you can choose to buy extra sites on the die or extra wafers to get more chips. For a limited production run it makes a lot of sense.

Do you really have to adopt this tone and attack a third party when you're own knowledge is clearly lacking? Although I have my doubts about the ability of this company to produce a chip with the power consumption they claim and have concerns about the validity of their business plan I certainly wouldn't call them a scam and I think anyone that does so is either incredibly ignorant or simply doesn't want new companies to get a chance to compete.

[HorseRider]

THIS IS A SCAM AS OP IS LYING

The OP stated that he is doing MPW, but he present us a full rack of miners.

MPW will only provides tens of chips, which is not enough for build so many miners.

If the OP is capable of doing a full rack of miners, he must be doing a full mask. he would have been able to produce thousands of miners.

Even if OP has taped out the MPW and get back the sample chips, we are pretty sure that he will scam his minority shareholders without any mercy as he are now using untruthful evidence to attract investment.

In a MPW run you can choose to buy extra sites on the die or extra wafers to get more chips. For a limited production run it makes a lot of sense.

Do you really have to adopt this tone and attack a third party when you're own knowledge is clearly lacking? Although I have my doubts about the ability of this company to produce a chip with the power consumption they claim and have concerns about the validity of their business plan I certainly wouldn't call them a scam and I think anyone that does so is either incredibly ignorant or simply doesn't want new companies to get a chance to compete.

You are not aware of the expensiveness of extra sites to support a full rack of miners. MPW will cost you less in tapeout, but no one who want to use thousands of chips will get the chip supplied by "extra site".
 
You are an obvious example of why so many people get scammed.

Holly shit that they can do a 0.6J/GH chip in the last year and they would not do it in this year, if they have full mask in hands.

[HorseRider]

In an MPW run you have only a few chips per wafer and, thus, the costs per chip are pretty high and dominate everything. Since the production of a wafer takes 2 months or more, in March or April we wouldn't have been able to get a return of investment with this first gen hardware. We would have needed a full mask tapeout but did not want to waste the money on an old technology when our 2nd generation was nearly final.

Best regards,
Markus

How many gen-1 chip used in the 1.8TH/s machine?
How many 1.8TH/s machines you have made?
What is the die size of gen-1 chip?
How many chips have you get back from your MPW run?
You tape out in August and you have the chip in hands in the early of this year, why not make a full mask? It will get the investment returned if you tape out full mask in the Jan or Feb. Are OP's team smart enough to make the chips but stupid enough cannot calculate an ROI?

Those 1.8TH/s miners built in rack have to be out of a full mask production. However, OP don't have the access to the full mask.

I repeat, this project is a scam.

[FUKT]

In an MPW run you have only a few chips per wafer and, thus, the costs per chip are pretty high and dominate everything. Since the production of a wafer takes 2 months or more, in March or April we wouldn't have been able to get a return of investment with this first gen hardware. We would have needed a full mask tapeout but did not want to waste the money on an old technology when our 2nd generation was nearly final.

Best regards,
Markus

How many gen-1 chip used in the 1.8TH/s machine?
How many 1.8TH/s machines you have made?
What is the die size of gen-1 chip?
How many chips have you get back from your MPW run?
You tape out in August and you have the chip in hands in the early of this year, why not make a full mask? It will get the investment returned if you tape out full mask in the Jan or Feb. Are OP's team smart enough to make the chips but stupid enough cannot calculate an ROI?

Those 1.8TH/s miners built in rack have to be out of a full mask production. However, OP don't have the access to the full mask.

I repeat, this project is a scam.

Dude youre retarded, I urge everyone to ignore this shitposter, he/she is just another armchair expert with a obvious chip (no pun intended) on shoulder.

To clarify their August Gen1 chips have nothing to do with masks, speed, power as advertised in this thread. These were obviously stated as 28nm first gen chips (which is amusing since another company claims to be the first with 28nm implementation), horserider is clearly austistic.

[cedivad]

While you are clearly unbiased, meh.
This really feels like the beginning of another HashFast thread.

[HyperMega]

In an MPW run you have only a few chips per wafer and, thus, the costs per chip are pretty high and dominate everything. Since the production of a wafer takes 2 months or more, in March or April we wouldn't have been able to get a return of investment with this first gen hardware. We would have needed a full mask tapeout but did not want to waste the money on an old technology when our 2nd generation was nearly final.

Best regards,
Markus

How many gen-1 chip used in the 1.8TH/s machine?
How many 1.8TH/s machines you have made?
What is the die size of gen-1 chip?
How many chips have you get back from your MPW run?
You tape out in August and you have the chip in hands in the early of this year, why not make a full mask? It will get the investment returned if you tape out full mask in the Jan or Feb. Are OP's team smart enough to make the chips but stupid enough cannot calculate an ROI?

Those 1.8TH/s miners built in rack have to be out of a full mask production. However, OP don't have the access to the full mask.

I repeat, this project is a scam.

Sorry, I didn’t get your point here. What are you trying to say?
They are lying and already had a full mask for their gen1 but were not competent enough to make money with it? Because otherwise they would not need to search for investors to build up >20 PH large scale mine?
Or do you mean that the gen1 chips are not from them?

An ASICrising gen 1 machine contains about 196 gen 1 ASICs. This is public for anybody, just have a look on their website.
For e.g. 15 prototypes they would need 3000 samples. The die size of an 10 GH/s 28nm ASIC should not be larger than 9mm2, otherwise it would be a very bad design. I guess you know that.

I’m not an expert for 28nm prices, but I know from older technologies, that a small MPW contribution including 3000 samples is much cheaper than a full mask set.

Anyway, wasn’t there recently another hardware manufacturer who raised more than $20M to build up a large scale mine? Why did they do that although their gen 1 hardware was very successful?

[trek27]

First payouts after 3 years?
I'm not sure if it's legit or not and if legit then competent enough to deliver but 3 years sounds to me like an epoch.
I have merely scant idea (if any at all) what bitcoin ecosystem will look like in three years from now. So, plain and simple, just stopped to analyse. Good luck.