Osborne makes a withdrawal from a Bitcoin ATM

[bish5555]

Osborne - gangster 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NobmesYbjKM

[oceans]

It's good to see that members from the government are getting in on this hopefully they will see the good of bitcoin and not want to be so controlling over it in the long run. With George Osbourne though he is someone I wouldn't trust with a barge pole at the minute and you never know what he may be thinking. Hopefully this is good publicity for bitcoin.

[Light]

Fuck it, I'm moving out of the country for good now, I know you guys outside of the UK won't know much about George Osborne but this guy knows even less about the economy than Paul Krugman, the fact that he's wanting to put VAT on Bitcoins means he's going to tax UK Bitcoin users hard, in fact, I think the UK a probably going to see Bitcoin as a way of getting more tax income in general.

I'm curious, given that I know nothing about British politics, how exactly does he plan to tax Bitcoin via VAT? Is he going to try and get legislation that forces businesses to pay tax on any transaction whereby they accept Bitcoin - because that's the only way I'd think it would work.

[Swordsoffreedom]

I thought it was Ozzy too but I'm more impressed by this.

Ditto although now I want Ozzy Osborne to go to a Bitcoin ATM and have someone take a picture of it as well
Ozzy uses Bitcoin would be another neat headline since Osborne is taken lol.

That said this is interesting as well, from the country of porn bans and internet censorship and Bitcoin VAT taxes proposed to the dailymail with its tabloid articles its an interesting enough place to munch popcorn in lol.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2718720/American-Apparel-resorting-porn-sell-Back-School-range.html
http://metro.co.uk/2014/08/07/american-apparel-causes-outrage-again-with-new-advertising-campaign-that-uses-underage-porn-4824475/
http://metro.co.uk/2014/08/07/never-mail-order-sex-toys-this-excruciating-tale-involving-the-new-fleshlight-explains-why-4824856/

As an aside lol.

[salmion]

Fuck it, I'm moving out of the country for good now, I know you guys outside of the UK won't know much about George Osborne but this guy knows even less about the economy than Paul Krugman, the fact that he's wanting to put VAT on Bitcoins means he's going to tax UK Bitcoin users hard, in fact, I think the UK a probably going to see Bitcoin as a way of getting more tax income in general.

I'm curious, given that I know nothing about British politics, how exactly does he plan to tax Bitcoin via VAT? Is he going to try and get legislation that forces businesses to pay tax on any transaction whereby they accept Bitcoin - because that's the only way I'd think it would work.

As I understand it transactions are still liable for VAT. So if goods or services are liable for VAT, VAT needs to be payed. I think its the most level approach there is. So not on exchange.

On purchase. If I buy something the price = X+Vat same as normal.

[zahra4571]

Its good news for advertising BTC but not if he try to legalize and take a part of a cookie

[franky1]

businesses in the UK selling products and services that are IN the scope of VAT. will have to charge VAT, no matter what currency they accept.
merchants dont see this as a problem as they already price their products to include VAT anyway and as such when cashing out alternative currency back to fiat, they just pay the VAT bill of the products the same way as they always have.

but some people have the hyped up theory that UK government want to charge VAT on swapping bitcoin for FIAT (burueau de change / exchanges) as oppose to the selling of goods or services. i do not think this will happen as bitcoin is not 'in the scope' of passing the means test of being a 'value added' product.

simplified:
the 'value added' is where the raw product has then been modified or prepared in such a manner that the end result given to the customer is different enough to add more value to the customer.

such as a uncooked food item, being cooked.
such as a lump of plastic being made into a plastic cup.
such as sand being made into glass
such as a tomato being made into a sauce.

where as a bitcoin is just a bitcoin and will always be a bitcoin. and so HMRC, are so far leaving bitcoin OUT of SCOPE in regards to VAT. but this does not mean if you sell a TV for bitcoin, that you can sell the TV at the ex-vat fiate value of bitcoins. the TV still has VAT added and you will need to pay the VAT of the TV to HMRC

[ArnoldChippy]

Before he can tax them, Osborne first needs to know who owns bitcoins. 

For the majority of people, solutions such as Dark Wallet should keep 'authorities' at bay.

[salmion]

businesses in the UK selling products and services that are IN the scope of VAT. will have to charge VAT, no matter what currency they accept.
merchants dont see this as a problem as they already price their products to include VAT anyway and as such when cashing out alternative currency back to fiat, they just pay the VAT bill of the products the same way as they always have.

but some people have the hyped up theory that UK government want to charge VAT on swapping bitcoin for FIAT (burueau de change / exchanges) as oppose to the selling of goods or services. i do not think this will happen as bitcoin is not 'in the scope' of passing the means test of being a 'value added' product.

simplified:
the 'value added' is where the raw product has then been modified or prepared in such a manner that the end result given to the customer is different enough to add more value to the customer.

such as a uncooked food item, being cooked.
such as a lump of plastic being made into a plastic cup.
such as sand being made into glass
such as a tomato being made into a sauce.

where as a bitcoin is just a bitcoin and will always be a bitcoin. and so HMRC, are so far leaving bitcoin OUT of SCOPE in regards to VAT. but this does not mean if you sell a TV for bitcoin, that you can sell the TV at the ex-vat fiate value of bitcoins. the TV still has VAT added and you will need to pay the VAT of the TV to HMRC

As I understand it second hand goods by virtue of having had VAT payed on them when first sold are not liable for VAT.

If you are a retailer - you would probably be charging VAT anyway so no big deal.

[Lethn]

I wonder if he had better luck than the guys on Tested (the youtube channel that just uploaded that video where they get their money stuck on the machine and can't withdraw)

If you're talking about the same guys I was thinking of, they were morons who didn't bother paying the transaction fee on their Bitcoin wallet so they could transfer everything fast so like other people who do this they're probably going to get their money in several decades. Just from the way they were talking it was obvious they had done fuck all research before actually checking things out before hand and they also picked what I'd call one of the worse Bitcoin ATMs out there, there are way simpler ones than the stupid RoboCoin machines.

[Mr Tea]

Well that is a surprising sight. Never thought I'd see a UK politician using a bitcoin machine. I hope he can understand the greatness of the technology and not do his best to restrict it.

[Ron~Popeil]

I'd prefer politicians stay far away from bit coin. Once they figure out that they can use it to pull even more money out of our pockets they will bite down like a pit bull.

[ensurance982]

Good to see people in positions that high getting some hands-on experience with Bitcoin. They are supposed to decide so many things and often don't even know what those things are. I believe politicians could use that kind of experience in order to get to know Bitcoin better!

I think a congressman did the same thing when a Bitcoin ATM was installed in capital hill. It made the news and everything. I do wonder just how much use it get though.

I defiantly think this is very good for bitcoin as it will likely cause it to be seen less of a threat to governments.

Yeah many are doing this. And I can't help but wonder whether they initially just do this in order to receive free PR or some exposure to the public. But if they actually 'get' the technology and usefulness, their motives don't matter. They've learned something new and will be able to make better decisions because of that.

[franky1]

Well that is a surprising sight. Never thought I'd see a UK politician using a bitcoin machine. I hope he can understand the greatness of the technology and not do his best to restrict it.

i guess you need to google "hullcoin" too. local member of parliament (Hull MP) is interested in what the altcoin guys have in mind for a local currency just for the hull area.

american translation
a 'city official' is looking at some guys in the altcoin scene to start a city coin (maybe the start of a UK version of the U.S new hampshire project)

[ensurance982]

Well that is a surprising sight. Never thought I'd see a UK politician using a bitcoin machine. I hope he can understand the greatness of the technology and not do his best to restrict it.

i guess you need to google "hullcoin" too. local member of parliament (Hull MP) is interested in what the altcoin gys have inmind for a local currency just for the hull area.

I do understand why people 'like' or 'care for' local currencies, but apart from that I really don't think why you should use them? The best thing about a currency effectively is the degree of acceptance in various places. That's one of the beautiful things of the EURO, for example. It doesn't make any sense to make a small, fragile, coin that's only used in a tiny region!

[Gervais]

I wonder if he bought it himself? Probably used taxpayers money and claimed it back on his expenses if he did.

I'll be keeping a close eye on what Mr Osbourne has to say on bitcoin. Hope it's positive but I'm not myself.

[Hiraga]

Now when will governments start to buy bitcoins, they all hold some gold so the more legit crypto's become the more likely this can happen.

[franky1]

I do understand why people 'like' or 'care for' local currencies, but apart from that I really don't think why you should use them? The best thing about a currency effectively is the degree of acceptance in various places. That's one of the beautiful things of the EURO, for example. It doesn't make any sense to make a small, fragile, coin that's only used in a tiny region!

the 'ideology' of a local currency is so that someone that works in the town hands his funds to a business that is based in that town (basically national/international corporate retailers are exempt from being allowd to handle the local currency) thus people can choose to only do business with 'locals' by knowing this currency means the funds wont hit a bank account in another area/country, but stay in circulation within the town.

its like bitcoin ideology not wanting government to grab our wealth but only have wealth being passed between normal people. which are both not 100% fulfilled ideologies especially when people cash out bitcoins to pay electric bills, taxes or regulation licences. or merchants cash out to buy stock from foreign countries.

I wonder if he bought it himself? Probably used taxpayers money and claimed it back on his expenses if he did.

I'll be keeping a close eye on what Mr Osbourne has to say on bitcoin. Hope it's positive but I'm not myself.

and keep your brain switch on too. as osbourne is 2 faced, he says publicly one thing, but then months later we find out he has voted on a new 'act' that means another.

so far the chiefs of HMRC (UK's IRS basically) seem to treat bitcoin as it deserves to be treated. but who knows what whip osbourne slaps across their asses to change later

[BowieMan]

What does the Chancellor of the Exchequer doo?

he's the guy in control of the countries budgets. he is the one that says that social security gets X amount this year, military gets Y amounts this year and healthcare gets Z.... oh and the guy that ensures he receives A, B and C amounts.

in short he is the accountant/book keeper of the government funding (tax)

It is wonderful that people in those positions get their hands on our little golden coins! How would they know about it if they haven't tried it. All their counselors don't know jack. They only know the old monetary systems and just keep on pointing out the 'risks' of Bitcoin and not the advantages!!!

[Georgebest]

wow more bigger and bigger . bitcoin will be amazing. just curious when atm has been in market and hacker set on atm to steal all .