State Atheism

[zolace]

This is one of many links I supplied.  Along with the other links that showed they aren't very religious...only about a tenth of the people go to church.  the majority view religion as unimportant.  Yet, there is no crime, they are safe, they have social cohesion, they are happy.  How can a nation have a happy people who are safe and have high moral standards yet not care about religion?  Why are so few atheists in prison in the US if you believe they have no moral compass?

Why are you so afraid to answer this?

Just that Norwegians are happy - and that if we had this link below alone, one would never assume atheism has anything to do with it (which is why you need the other links).  Yes?  Just want an honest answer here.

[Rigon]

This is one of many links I supplied.  Along with the other links that showed they aren't very religious...only about a tenth of the people go to church.  the majority view religion as unimportant.  Yet, there is no crime, they are safe, they have social cohesion, they are happy.  How can a nation have a happy people who are safe and have high moral standards yet not care about religion?  Why are so few atheists in prison in the US if you believe they have no moral compass?

Why are you so afraid to answer this?

Just that Norwegians are happy - and that if we had this link below alone, one would never assume atheism has anything to do with it (which is why you need the other links).  Yes?  Just want an honest answer here.

I have told you a thousand times the case on atheism is not made from one link.You continue to try to make the entire case about one piece of  information from one link.  It has never been thus.  A  few posts ago you said I never showed that the link proves they are happy ( a lie).  Now you say it does, but the link doesnt say it is atheism.  I never said it did you fucking moron.  Was I ever saying that atheists are happier than religious people?  No.  I was countering the premise of YOUR THREAD that atheism is bad .  The data show that atheists are not bad....they are happy,socially cohesive, crime free, safe and smart.    Atheists are not in prisons, communities with few believers are safe  and full of happy people who don't commit crime.    A high percentage of scientists and really smart people who do a lot for society are atheists. I posted many many links that disproved your thread premise that atheism is bad.

[Rigon]

You have never offered any comment on any link save this one......since you are obsessed that atheism shouldnt make people happy....  What I am saying is that all the data on the planet says atheists are not immoral evil killing machines as you suppose. The data say they are happy, safe, smart, and socially close-knit. 

What say you on all the other links I posted?

Do you disagree that atheists dont commit crime? tell me why...show me data.
Do you disagree that the majority of scientists who do a lot fo society are atheists
Do you disagree that religious belief is low in any of themany countries I listed in my links.


Can you enter a discussion or will you remain a liar?

[Rigon]

Lets be clear about a few things  so we can all see what a dishonest liar zolace has been:

1.  My position is that your thread premise that atheism is evil is not demonstrated....not that atheism is better than religion or atheists are happier than religious people.

2).  A sole link on happiness in Norway has never been the sole argument in my case that atheism is not evil.  It is but a very small part of the weight of the evidence that atheists are not evil.

3) I posted links on Norway and many other countries that have low religion and high percentages of atheists.

4) I posted links on low crime  and comparative safety in areas with low religious belief.

5)  I posted links on disproportionately low prison convictions among atheists in the US

6) and yes, I posted a link that says these countries rate higher on happiness, and not just Norway with lots of resources, but many other nations with low religious belief. The people have social cohesion and are happy.

7) I posted links that say the majority of US scientists and other very smart productive and decent people are atheists.

Taken together, the conclusion that atheists are immoral and atheism is bad doesnot hold any water whatsoever.

Can you get over your obsession with one link and speak to the cumulative breadth of the evidence above?

[zolace]

Lets be clear about a few things  so we can all see what a dishonest liar zolace has been:

1.  My position is that your thread premise that atheism is evil is not demonstrated....not that atheism is better than religion or atheists are happier than religious people.

2).  A sole link on happiness in Norway has never been the sole argument in my case that atheism is not evil.  It is but a very small part of the weight of the evidence that atheists are not evil.

3) I posted links on Norway and many other countries that have low religion and high percentages of atheists.

4) I posted links on low crime  and comparative safety in areas with low religious belief.

5)  I posted links on disproportionately low prison convictions among atheists in the US

6) and yes, I posted a link that says these countries rate higher on happiness, and not just Norway with lots of resources, but many other nations with low religious belief. The people have social cohesion and are happy.

7) I posted links that say the majority of US scientists and other very smart productive and decent people are atheists.

Taken together, the conclusion that atheists are immoral and atheism is bad doesnot hold any water whatsoever.

Can you get over your obsession with one link and speak to the cumulative breadth of the evidence above?

Again, I have not commented on the other links (except to note they also do not support your  position), as I have been hoping to get an honest reply from you on the first link.  Weave and bob as you may.


But, you have chosen to ignore other information from the link about Norway.  VERY TELLING.

More importantly, the first link BY ITSELF does not support your contention.  You admit that all it does is indicate that Norway is the happiest, and that Legatum uses several factors in scoring - HOWEVER, not noting how each of those factors weighs in for Norway.  Which may be why you do not note the other info on Norway from the link.


So, to sum: the first link by itself does not make your case.  You admit that you are using it only to introduce the fact that Legatum has ranked Norway as #1. 

[Rigon]

You are right ...the first link alone doesn't make the case.  I already agreed with that.  All my links make my case.   You have not commented with any rationale to refute the case in its entirety.  You are afraid to even discuss the other facts because your thread has been exposed as pure unadulterated bullshit like everything else that enters your pea-sized brain.

[Rigon]

There are no atheists in prisons.   Communities with low religious belief are among the safest places on earth.   Atheists are happy and value social cohesion.  Atheists have morals because morals don't come from religion  All my links disprove the premise that atheism makes people bad.  It doesn't.....and you are "happy".

[zolace]

You are right ...the first link alone doesn't make the case.  I already agreed with that.  All my links make my case.   You have not commented with any rationale to refute the case in its entirety.  You are afraid to even discuss the other facts because your thread has been exposed as pure unadulterated bullshit like everything else that enters your pea-sized brain.

If anyone was to read this link alone, they would never get the impression that atheism had any connection with Norwegians happiness.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/10/29/the-worlds-happiest-and-saddest-countries-2013/

Sorry - a true statement.  You yourself have been unable to show from that thread alone that atheism has any connection to Norwegians happiness - in fact, you agreed it does not:
 the first link alone doesn't make the case.
and now you are backtracking?

And, further, again, as noted, you steadfastly refused to note what the link below did say about Norwegians happiness.  Again, very telling.  You just cherry picked.

Remember - no fact is an island to itself.  You might want to practice that with the facts from this link.

[commandrix]

If I had to choose between a Theocracy or State atheism I would pick the latter every time.

Historically, what examples of a Theocracy are you referencing, out of curiosity?Kind of hard to compare and discuss your point, unless you have some specific examples in mind.

A theocracy is a theocracy is a theocracy. All the same and all bad. A government free of state religion but allowing people to worship their Gods is perfect. If only theists would be happy with such abundance.

I would suppose something like the Anglican church, which was basically created by the King of England once upon a time because he couldn't get along with the Vatican. It became basically the official religion of England and what ended up happening was that there were a lot of fights between the Anglicans and all other Christians and a lot of people including the Puritans came to America to get away from that.

[Rigon]

You are right ...the first link alone doesn't make the case.  I already agreed with that.  All my links make my case.   You have not commented with any rationale to refute the case in its entirety.  You are afraid to even discuss the other facts because your thread has been exposed as pure unadulterated bullshit like everything else that enters your pea-sized brain.

If anyone was to read this link alone, they would never get the impression that atheism had any connection with Norwegians happiness.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/10/29/the-worlds-happiest-and-saddest-countries-2013/

Sorry - a true statement.  You yourself have been unable to show from that thread alone that atheism has any connection to Norwegians happiness - in fact, you agreed it does not:
 the first link alone doesn't make the case.
and now you are backtracking?

And, further, again, as noted, you steadfastly refused to note what the link below did say about Norwegians happiness.  Again, very telling.  You just cherry picked.

Remember - no fact is an island to itself.  You might want to practice that with the facts from this link.

thank you for your concession.  You re right no point is an island, which is why my case that you cannot address is made up of many pieces of information.  Its not like you really lost ...you just never began .........you never were able to comment on why atheists are crime free happy people, or if you believe they aren't, present any evidence to the contrary

[Rigon]

You cant answer why atheists are happy, socially cohesive, crime free, not in prison.  IF as you presume that atheism is bad, why isnt there crime and unhappiness in regions with no religion?   You just have no answers whatsoever.  It goes against your beliefs of atheism and you have nothing to say but.....but ...that one link about happiness doesnt directly say atheism is the cause...."but that one link"...."but that one link".

If you ever grow some balls and care to enter a debate with grown ups, Id love to hear your explanation as to why non-religious places have happy people who don't commit crime.....why are there no athesists in prison. 

[zolace]

You are right ...the first link alone doesn't make the case.  I already agreed with that.  All my links make my case.   You have not commented with any rationale to refute the case in its entirety.  You are afraid to even discuss the other facts because your thread has been exposed as pure unadulterated bullshit like everything else that enters your pea-sized brain.

If anyone was to read this link alone, they would never get the impression that atheism had any connection with Norwegians happiness.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/10/29/the-worlds-happiest-and-saddest-countries-2013/

Sorry - a true statement.  You yourself have been unable to show from that thread alone that atheism has any connection to Norwegians happiness - in fact, you agreed it does not:
 the first link alone doesn't make the case.
and now you are backtracking?

And, further, again, as noted, you steadfastly refused to note what the link below did say about Norwegians happiness.  Again, very telling.  You just cherry picked.

Remember - no fact is an island to itself.  You might want to practice that with the facts from this link.

thank you for your concession.  You re right no point is an island, which is why my case that you cannot address is made up of many pieces of information.  Its not like you really lost ...you just never began .........you never were able to comment on why atheists are crime free happy people, or if you believe they aren't, present any evidence to the contrary

I do concede that you cherry picked pieces of info from this link below, no disagreement with you there. 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/10/29/the-worlds-happiest-and-saddest-countries-2013/

I also agree with you below that if anyone was to read this link alone, they would never get the impression that atheism had any connection with Norwegians happiness.

- the first link alone doesn't make the case.

Now, we can start considering the other links (and perhaps find you cherry picked there also), except you seem to want to back track on what you said before on the first link. 

[Rigon]

You are right ...the first link alone doesn't make the case.  I already agreed with that.  All my links make my case.   You have not commented with any rationale to refute the case in its entirety.  You are afraid to even discuss the other facts because your thread has been exposed as pure unadulterated bullshit like everything else that enters your pea-sized brain.

If anyone was to read this link alone, they would never get the impression that atheism had any connection with Norwegians happiness.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/10/29/the-worlds-happiest-and-saddest-countries-2013/

Sorry - a true statement.  You yourself have been unable to show from that thread alone that atheism has any connection to Norwegians happiness - in fact, you agreed it does not:
 the first link alone doesn't make the case.
and now you are backtracking?

And, further, again, as noted, you steadfastly refused to note what the link below did say about Norwegians happiness.  Again, very telling.  You just cherry picked.

Remember - no fact is an island to itself.  You might want to practice that with the facts from this link.

thank you for your concession.  You re right no point is an island, which is why my case that you cannot address is made up of many pieces of information.  Its not like you really lost ...you just never began .........you never were able to comment on why atheists are crime free happy people, or if you believe they aren't, present any evidence to the contrary

I do concede that you cherry picked pieces of info from this link below, no disagreement with you there. 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/10/29/the-worlds-happiest-and-saddest-countries-2013/

I also agree with you below that if anyone was to read this link alone, they would never get the impression that atheism had any connection with Norwegians happiness.

- the first link alone doesn't make the case.

Now, we can start considering the other links (and perhaps find you cherry picked there also), except you seem to want to back track on what you said before on the first link. 

Norwegians are happy, and they aren't religious.   Same for new Zealanders, Germans, other Scandanavian places.  Religion is not required for people to be crime free, happy, safe, cohesive. 


True or false..........Honest answers zolace.  It would be nice if once in your life you answered a single question I ask.

[Rigon]

These places have much lower value on religion than the US and many more atheists? T or F
These places have lower crime rates than the US?   T or F
Very few people attend church in places like Norway (see my links).  T or F
These places (not just Norway) rate high on quality of life and happiness surveys.  T or F
In anonymous surveys of over 4000 prison inmates in the US, only 0.07% reported they were atheist. T or F

...you posit atheism is bad, there are no morals, atheist places are bad.  How can you explain the answers above?
How can that be ?
 
Run away...change the subject.   Stick to your talking points...."but that one link"  Don't enter the discussion.

[zolace]

These places have much lower value on religion than the US and many more atheists? T or F
These places have lower crime rates than the US?   T or F
Very few people attend church in places like Norway (see my links).  T or F
These places (not just Norway) rate high on quality of life and happiness surveys.  T or F
In anonymous surveys of over 4000 prison inmates in the US, only 0.07% reported they were atheist. T or F

...you posit atheism is bad, there are no morals, atheist places are bad.  How can you explain the answers above?
How can that be ?
 
Run away...change the subject.   Stick to your talking points...."but that one link"  Don't enter the discussion.

I do concede that you cherry picked pieces of info from this link below, no disagreement with you there.     You clearly do not disagree with that.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/10/29/the-worlds-happiest-and-saddest-countries-2013/


I also agree with you below that if anyone was to read this link alone, they would never get the impression that atheism had any connection with Norwegians happiness.

rigon: the first link alone doesn't make the case.



So, again, with you NOT disagreeing with the above, we can start considering the other links (and perhaps find you cherry picked there also) - which other link that you provided should we begin with next?

[Rigon]

These places have much lower value on religion than the US and many more atheists? T or F
These places have lower crime rates than the US?   T or F
Very few people attend church in places like Norway (see my links).  T or F
These places (not just Norway) rate high on quality of life and happiness surveys.  T or F
In anonymous surveys of over 4000 prison inmates in the US, only 0.07% reported they were atheist. T or F

...you posit atheism is bad, there are no morals, atheist places are bad.  How can you explain the answers above?
How can that be ?
 
Run away...change the subject.   Stick to your talking points...."but that one link"  Don't enter the discussion.

I do concede that you cherry picked pieces of info from this link below, no disagreement with you there.     You clearly do not disagree with that.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/10/29/the-worlds-happiest-and-saddest-countries-2013/


I also agree with you below that if anyone was to read this link alone, they would never get the impression that atheism had any connection with Norwegians happiness.

rigon: the first link alone doesn't make the case.



So, again, with you NOT disagreeing with the above, we can start considering the other links (and perhaps find you cherry picked there also) - which other link that you provided should we begin with next?

I considered them a long long time ago. I have been asking you to consider them all from the very beginning . 

 No one but you ever considers one piece of information alone in a vacuum when making an argument.  I understand that approach for you, the same one you take with evolution, is a requirement for you to hold onto lies and excuses.  If you had to consider all the evidence, your game would end.

[Rigon]

I repeat for the 50th time.

My argument is that atheists are happy.  The one link above does show that.   They have social cohesion......more than in the US......the one link and others also mentions that.   There are many other sources of evidence in the US and abroad. In fact, in the US, a larger percentage of religious people think that life has no purpose compared to atheists.....albeit not huge.      The evidence on crime suggests atheists and non-religious people live in crime free communities. There are few atheists in prison.   Atheists are clearly not lacking morals.

Taken together....your premise that atheism is bad and leads to no control on morals, etc.  is not supported by any of the evidences and you have yet to enter the discussion and provide any rebuttal whatsoever.

[Rigon]

My argument is that atheists are happy.  The one link above does show that..

This is why we cannot move on.  You go back and forth on this.  You stated the below, and the above.  Do clarify what you mean by the below - that the first link alone does not make the case.  Does not make the case for what?

the first link alone doesn't make the case.

Darn...and here I thought zolace had grown balls and might for the first time answer my charge Ive been asking for ten pages...but he cant and wont.  Too dangerous for his beliefs.  He lied instead and said I go back and forth on atheists being happy.  Never have I done so. 

I guess you prefer lying to debating . 

[zolace]

My argument is that atheists are happy.  The one link above does show that..

This is why we cannot move on.  You go back and forth on this.  You stated the below, and the above.  Do clarify what you mean by the below - that the first link alone does not make the case.  Does not make the case for what?

the first link alone doesn't make the case.

Darn...and here I thought zolace had grown balls and might for the first time answer my charge Ive been asking for ten pages...but he cant and wont.  Too dangerous for his beliefs.  He lied instead and said I go back and forth on atheists being happy.  Never have I done so. 

I guess you prefer lying to debating . 

Look, given that you are cherry picking, and given that you keep dancing around the first link, I suppose I should not be surprised to find you responding like that, instead of simply clarifying your position.


The first link, by itself, does not support your case.  You had agreed to that.  But, frankly, it sounds like you are now backtracking.  I think you know if  you were to honestly stop cherry picking, you would lose your case here.

Pick a position on the first link - and stick with it please.  Either it does not, by itself, support that Norwegians happiness has anything to do with atheism.

Or it does - in which case, show from the first link as to why (something you have not done).

[Rigon]

My argument is that atheists are happy.  The one link above does show that..

This is why we cannot move on.  You go back and forth on this.  You stated the below, and the above.  Do clarify what you mean by the below - that the first link alone does not make the case.  Does not make the case for what?

the first link alone doesn't make the case.

Darn...and here I thought zolace had grown balls and might for the first time answer my charge Ive been asking for ten pages...but he cant and wont.  Too dangerous for his beliefs.  He lied instead and said I go back and forth on atheists being happy.  Never have I done so. 

I guess you prefer lying to debating . 

Look, given that you are cherry picking, and given that you keep dancing around the first link, I suppose I should not be surprised to find you responding like that, instead of simply clarifying your position.


The first link, by itself, does not support your case.  You had agreed to that.  But, frankly, it sounds like you are now backtracking.  I think you know if  you were to honestly stop cherry picking, you would lose your case here.

Pick a position on the first link - and stick with it please.  Either it does not, by itself, support that Norwegians happiness has anything to do with atheism.

Or it does - in which case, show from the first link as to why (something you have not done).

We are done with the first link.  It shows Norwegians are and have been happier and have more social cohesion than we do  (and everyone else) in nearly every survey.  Other links show they are nonreligious.  Other links show atheists don't go to prison.  Other links show places with low value on religion also have low crime and are safe places with happy people.

All you can do is dance around the one link without ever even explaining what you think is wrong with it.  If you think the atheists among the Norwegians actually aren't happy or crime free, then explain yourself.  If you think that atheists have no morals, explain why crime is low in nonreligious places.....explain why there are no atheists in prison.