herebittybittybitty
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
August 10, 2014, 06:41:35 PM |
|
Also: Where is it illegal to sell Bitcoin in the US? I had no idea it was...
It is illegal to knowingly sell bitcoins to someone who has admitted they will be used for criminal activity. That covers all of the US. That makes these "stings" to try to turn something legal into something illegal even more disgusting.
|
|
|
|
wasserman99
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
August 10, 2014, 06:47:37 PM |
|
Also: Where is it illegal to sell Bitcoin in the US? I had no idea it was...
It is illegal to knowingly sell bitcoins to someone who has admitted they will be used for criminal activity. That covers all of the US. That is not true. You need to follow AML regulations when selling BTC for cash. In a nutshell these include verifying the identity of the person you are dealing with and reporting any transaction over a certain threshold. Since many/most traders are likely unaware of AML regulations, LE (undercover) will often say they are using the BTC illegally to give the trader a reason to look into the regulations and rules regarding AML.
|
|
|
|
luckyluigi
Member
![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif)
Offline
Activity: 239
Merit: 10
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
August 10, 2014, 06:53:17 PM |
|
Thank you for posting this OP, really eye-opening. I don't even use localbitcoins, and probably won't in the future because of all the risks. This is just an icing on the cake. I wonder if this could get news coverage on some bitcoin news sites, seems like it would make a good piece.
|
|
|
|
ForgottenPassword
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
August 10, 2014, 06:54:26 PM |
|
That is not true. You need to follow AML regulations when selling BTC for cash. In a nutshell these include verifying the identity of the person you are dealing with and reporting any transaction over a certain threshold.
Since many/most traders are likely unaware of AML regulations, LE (undercover) will often say they are using the BTC illegally to give the trader a reason to look into the regulations and rules regarding AML.
Thats not what the Florida indictment states. AML is a completely different issue. Charlie Shrem the owner of BitInstant a Bitcoin exchange that was (almost) fully compliant with AML was arrested for knowingly selling Bitcoins to someone who he knew sold them to people who used them for illegal activity and failing to report this: http://time.com/1892/bitinstant-ceo-charlie-shrem-arrested-for-alleged-money-laundering/If someone tells you that they are buying your Bitcoins to spend on cocaine, asking to see their ID won't cover you.
|
|
|
|
the joint
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
August 10, 2014, 06:56:03 PM |
|
One simple fact to keep in mind: As far as I'm aware, it is *not* illegal for law enforcement to lie to you to coerce you or trick you into committing or confessing illegal activity. It is entirely up to you to know the laws in your area and to protect yourself accordingly.
|
|
|
|
colinistheman
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
August 10, 2014, 07:06:45 PM |
|
I wonder if you were being audio recorded while this deal was going down. I bet so.
Recorded audio of you selling btc to a person knowingly using it for illegal purposes would be the only way to have the evidence needed, right? (aside from any texts/emails showing known intent of the buyer)
|
|
|
|
keithers
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1001
This is the land of wolves now & you're not a wolf
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
August 10, 2014, 07:24:46 PM |
|
Thanks for the story. It is a good cautionary narrative. People should take his advice just to save you the possible legal trouble/stress it will cause you.
|
|
|
|
vabtc
Jr. Member
Offline
Activity: 55
Merit: 4
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
August 10, 2014, 07:53:01 PM |
|
Thanks for the post, I had something very similar happen. He had addresses on a piece of paper, not even QR codes and admitted they were not his. I felt uncomfortable about the whole thing and declined to sell the coins.
|
|
|
|
odolvlobo
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 4424
Merit: 3324
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
August 10, 2014, 08:11:20 PM |
|
There is a lot of paranoia in this thread. It isn't as bad as people are making it out to be. Face-to-face transactions are safe and easy. Online selling is risky because of chargebacks and fraud. Even cash bank deposits can be reversed.
Just stick to small amounts and stay away from people talking about criminal activity, and you have nothing to worry about.
|
Join an anti-signature campaign: Click ignore on the members of signature campaigns. PGP Fingerprint: 6B6BC26599EC24EF7E29A405EAF050539D0B2925 Signing address: 13GAVJo8YaAuenj6keiEykwxWUZ7jMoSLt
|
|
|
abercrombie
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1159
Merit: 1001
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
August 10, 2014, 08:23:56 PM |
|
Thanks for the post, I had something very similar happen. He had addresses on a piece of paper, not even QR codes and admitted they were not his. I felt uncomfortable about the whole thing and declined to sell the coins.
Once he admits it's not for him and on behalf of a 3rd party, you would be operating as a money transmitter without a license. They charged Charlie Shrem of Bitinstant for that crime.
|
|
|
|
conspirosphere.tk
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2352
Merit: 1064
Bitcoin is antisemitic
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
August 10, 2014, 09:09:20 PM |
|
"You've got to be honest to succeed as an outlaw" ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FButOJOvCQAAWCi3.jpg&t=665&c=BH1_z_MFXyWETQ)
|
|
|
|
ForgottenPassword
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
August 10, 2014, 09:48:15 PM |
|
There is a lot of paranoia in this thread. It isn't as bad as people are making it out to be. Face-to-face transactions are safe and easy. Online selling is risky because of chargebacks and fraud. Even cash bank deposits can be reversed.
Just stick to small amounts and stay away from people talking about criminal activity, and you have nothing to worry about.
This. Just keep to small amounts and be professional and do everything as smooth and quickly as possible. Check out your buyer before meeting them (past feedback etc), check all the notes you receive, do the trades in a safe place, use the escrow service and if the buyer mentions anything illegal DO NOT trade with them ever again. Keep it strictly business. So long as you're not trading excessively large amounts you will be very safe doing this.
|
|
|
|
|
Chris_Sabian
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 896
Merit: 1001
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
August 10, 2014, 10:40:40 PM |
|
The way that OP handled the situation is prefect.
Once the talk about illegal stuff came up, end the transaction and walk away.
OP is correct about money laundering and law enforcement.
|
|
|
|
hodap
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
August 10, 2014, 10:53:04 PM |
|
The way that OP handled the situation is prefect.
Once the talk about illegal stuff came up, end the transaction and walk away.
OP is correct about money laundering and law enforcement.
If he limit his transaction to 500-1000 per sale. The law enforcement may not even bother him.
|
|
|
|
TheButterZone
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3024
Merit: 1032
RIP Mommy
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
August 10, 2014, 11:18:00 PM |
|
Just a matter of time before LE ends up trying to entrap us, we attempt to make a citizen's arrest, the undercover and/or their backup team executes us in "self-defense", and it's ruled "justified" by a complicit justice system.
Or better/worse yet, a law-abiding LEO ends up arresting the entrapping LEO from another agency, or gets shot trying.
|
Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
|
|
|
herebittybittybitty
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
August 10, 2014, 11:55:01 PM |
|
I do wish the OP had called the police on the "buyer" just for laughs. Ask to file a report, fake being all concerned etc. Get the feds involved to investigate for added yucks. ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif)
|
|
|
|
Carnage
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 31
Merit: 0
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
August 11, 2014, 12:21:10 AM |
|
I am glad this is illegal in my country
|
|
|
|
Chris_Sabian
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 896
Merit: 1001
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
August 11, 2014, 01:19:32 AM |
|
The way that OP handled the situation is prefect.
Once the talk about illegal stuff came up, end the transaction and walk away.
OP is correct about money laundering and law enforcement.
If he limit his transaction to 500-1000 per sale. The law enforcement may not even bother him. Another valid point. This amount will probably vary by state as each has their own money laws (or soon to be laws)
|
|
|
|
counter
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
August 11, 2014, 09:08:32 AM |
|
There is a lot of paranoia in this thread. It isn't as bad as people are making it out to be. Face-to-face transactions are safe and easy. Online selling is risky because of chargebacks and fraud. Even cash bank deposits can be reversed.
Just stick to small amounts and stay away from people talking about criminal activity, and you have nothing to worry about.
I couldn't agree more, I'd treat the service like Craigslist. Come to think of it I've heard of many more horror stories of Craigslist meetups gone bad then I have of Bitcoin exchanges going wrong. It seems more common for the cops to be the reason for worry when exchanging coin in person then criminals..
|
|
|
|
|