Petition to sticky Dogies manufacturer trustworthiness guide!!

[Bicknellski]

...or takes into account the countless threads that point to inconsistencies in some fabricators trustworthiness who are listed on his guide...

This is the argument that wants all 'bad' companies to have 1 trust - again I don't have control of this in a numerical system. They get the scores the system gives them in each category, which provides an overall score. I'm not sure what adding more people to come to exactly the same conclusion would be. There is no 'dogie smudge factor' with the latest system, its totally open and transparent.

No. This is an argument you are not taking into account others opinions and that it would require other outside opinions or data to balance out your personal opinions on those who have caused a great deal of harm to a significant number of people. Your scale is flawed or biased take your pick and it can always be improved.

You should refine your system or add more people to the process to have this guide stickied. However yours is the best guide even with those narrow limitations of a single editor being placed on it. You are one person with an inherent bias like any other individual on this planet no matter how transparent you are you are still bias. The assumptions you make bleed into the system you build and without taking measure of alternative opinions particularly those that have had many negative experiences with some of those with "positive" ratings your system is flawed.

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[xingqiaoyin]

No hell no...

Dogie gave A rating to shady lightningasic a shady company which may turn into a chinese BFL... So no...

[opieum2]

The thing is its the only one of its kind on here...or any where for that matter. One could say that about ANY review. The point is Dogies guide is right now all there is. I challenge ANYONE on here to find OR create something better. But right now it just does not exist AND its an excellent resource. Is it perfect? No! BUT it is certainly as good as its going to get. Even most of those critquing it are saying the same thing, sure they have their issues but I would rather have an 80 percent accurate review post than none at all...My ONLY advice to dogie would be to emphasize the existing disclaimer that clearly states people should do their own research as well.

He covers that very clearly. So for those critisizing it if you can do better then do so. Otherwise he is the only one with this resource/tool that helps newbies. Fact is because of all the shady crap that goes on here, its important to have some resource. Honestly based on his guide, who would you go for? Bitmain is at the top of the list. Can anyone disagree that they are not currently top of the heap in the miner world? If you can clearly explain why? They win out on price (the numbers don't lie), performance, and delivery. How many others on that list are doing that? He does his best and that is all anyone can ask. Hence the request to sticky it. If those of you complaining can come up with something better OR are willing to collaborate to come up with something better then do so. I think all his hard (FREE) work deserves the recognition here for those new to the community to see, hence the sticky request.

[Bicknellski]

The thing is its the only one of its kind on here...or any where for that matter. One could say that about ANY review. The point is Dogies guide is right now all there is. I challenge ANYONE on here to find OR create something better. But right now it just does not exist AND its an excellent resource. Is it perfect? No! BUT it is certainly as good as its going to get. Even most of those critquing it are saying the same thing, sure they have their issues but I would rather have an 80 percent accurate review post than none at all...My ONLY advice to dogie would be to emphasize the existing disclaimer that clearly states people should do their own research as well.

He covers that very clearly. So for those critisizing it if you can do better then do so. Otherwise he is the only one with this resource/tool that helps newbies. Fact is because of all the shady crap that goes on here, its important to have some resource. Honestly based on his guide, who would you go for? Bitmain is at the top of the list. Can anyone disagree that they are not currently top of the heap in the miner world? If you can clearly explain why? They win out on price (the numbers don't lie), performance, and delivery. How many others on that list are doing that? He does his best and that is all anyone can ask. Hence the request to sticky it. If those of you complaining can come up with something better OR are willing to collaborate to come up with something better then do so. I think all his hard (FREE) work deserves the recognition here for those new to the community to see, hence the sticky request.

Should it be stickied? No.
Should he continue helping people make better choices? Sure.
Should he try to listen and take constructive criticism to help improve his system? Ya he should and this is where he is failing right now.

Regardless of his system or the detailed length he goes into it or how well it is done it still is a PERSONAL evaluation based on his set of criteria. No one person is capable of collecting all the relevant information and compile it into something that can guide people to make the best choice especially given the omission of all the consumer feedback available. Call it bias or omission there are certainly many ways he can improve his rating system. Many people have posted how if he doesn't want to listen to a significant number of people then don't expect too much support for the idea of communal board to accept a 1 person benchmarked system. Sorry nope no matter how "fair" the system he creates is it has not taken a proper accounting of consumer feedback.

[xingqiaoyin]

The thing is its the only one of its kind on here...or any where for that matter. One could say that about ANY review. The point is Dogies guide is right now all there is. I challenge ANYONE on here to find OR create something better. But right now it just does not exist AND its an excellent resource. Is it perfect? No! BUT it is certainly as good as its going to get. Even most of those critquing it are saying the same thing, sure they have their issues but I would rather have an 80 percent accurate review post than none at all...My ONLY advice to dogie would be to emphasize the existing disclaimer that clearly states people should do their own research as well.

He covers that very clearly. So for those critisizing it if you can do better then do so. Otherwise he is the only one with this resource/tool that helps newbies. Fact is because of all the shady crap that goes on here, its important to have some resource. Honestly based on his guide, who would you go for? Bitmain is at the top of the list. Can anyone disagree that they are not currently top of the heap in the miner world? If you can clearly explain why? They win out on price (the numbers don't lie), performance, and delivery. How many others on that list are doing that? He does his best and that is all anyone can ask. Hence the request to sticky it. If those of you complaining can come up with something better OR are willing to collaborate to come up with something better then do so. I think all his hard (FREE) work deserves the recognition here for those new to the community to see, hence the sticky request.

Seriously doge most bitcoin manufacturers these days are not to be trusted. The best in the business KnC, bitmain, spondoolies all three of them have all delivered underspec miners lately. So what purpose does this guide serve if none of the manufacturers are to be trusted ? Stickying bad information is just bad business imho.  

[Lucky Cris]

The thing is its the only one of its kind on here...or any where for that matter. One could say that about ANY review. The point is Dogies guide is right now all there is. I challenge ANYONE on here to find OR create something better. But right now it just does not exist AND its an excellent resource. Is it perfect? No! BUT it is certainly as good as its going to get. Even most of those critquing it are saying the same thing, sure they have their issues but I would rather have an 80 percent accurate review post than none at all...My ONLY advice to dogie would be to emphasize the existing disclaimer that clearly states people should do their own research as well.

He covers that very clearly. So for those critisizing it if you can do better then do so. Otherwise he is the only one with this resource/tool that helps newbies. Fact is because of all the shady crap that goes on here, its important to have some resource. Honestly based on his guide, who would you go for? Bitmain is at the top of the list. Can anyone disagree that they are not currently top of the heap in the miner world? If you can clearly explain why? They win out on price (the numbers don't lie), performance, and delivery. How many others on that list are doing that? He does his best and that is all anyone can ask. Hence the request to sticky it. If those of you complaining can come up with something better OR are willing to collaborate to come up with something better then do so. I think all his hard (FREE) work deserves the recognition here for those new to the community to see, hence the sticky request.

Your thought process about this is little twisted. This isn't a contest to see who can do it better; no one has even hinted to that. The point that's been made over and over is that it's not as good as it's going to get because it lacks objectivity. The community has spoken - no one's complaining, these are OUR opinions, not complaints. Many people provided suggestions to make this sticky worthy... Dogie hasn't responded to any of those because it's his interpretation. And because it's his interpretation and not that of the community as a whole, it does not belong as a sticky. It's his work, not the voice of the community. If he wants to be the authority to say who's trustworthy or not, he needs to open it up so that it represents the community. If he's not, then perhaps he should create a webpage outside of the forum to solicit his interpretation.

The Mods WON'T sticky this. If they do, then they'll open the door to anybody claiming that their opinion is that of the community at large. I think not.

[alfabitcoin]

I think that setup guides for numerous miners on the market where dogie got free unit are in direct way of having trusworthiness guide what imo should not be sticky.
However we are now at times where preoders will end and full scam as in begining of asic era is rare and where should be "best buy" guide for different kind of users.

[Xian01]

I think that setup guides for numerous miners on the market where dogie got free unit are in direct way of having trusworthiness guide what imo should not be sticky.

You make a very fair point.

However we are now at times where preoders will end and full scam as in begining of asic era is rare and where should be "best buy" guide for different kind of users.

What do you propose in the interim ?

I mean, certainly not sticky-ing a thread is an option, but I'm thinking, in the absence of something "community-official", we can do far worse than Doggie's best efforts to remain objective.

It's certainly a good start at the least.

[alfabitcoin]

I think that setup guides for numerous miners on the market where dogie got free unit are in direct way of having trusworthiness guide what imo should not be sticky.

You make a very fair point.

However we are now at times where preoders will end and full scam as in begining of asic era is rare and where should be "best buy" guide for different kind of users.

What do you propose in the interim ?

I mean, certainly not sticky-ing a thread is an option, but I'm thinking, in the absence of something "community-official", we can do far worse than Doggie's best efforts to remain objective.

It's certainly a good start at the least.

I think as other stated that sticking one man opinion is mistake. Dogie guide is still good source of information what can be bumped as necessary.
I wish members with time and means should write a "best buy" guide asap.

[Flying Hellfish]

I think all his hard (FREE) work

I'm certainly not trying to be a douche here but it could be argued that he is not working for free but instead working for free miners.  A mans gotta eat, I get that and don't have an issue with it at all.  I just don't think the forum should add any weight to it by stickying it, it can stand on its own merits IMO.

[Sitarow]

The thing is his guides are the only one of its kind on here...or any where for that matter. One could say that about ANY review. The point is Dogies guide is right now all there is. I challenge ANYONE on here to find OR create something better. But right now it just does not exist AND its an excellent resource. Is it perfect? No! BUT it is certainly as good as its going to get. Even most of those critquing it are saying the same thing, sure they have their issues but I would rather have an 80 percent accurate review post than none at all...My ONLY advice to dogie would be to emphasize the existing disclaimer that clearly states people should do their own research as well.

He covers that very clearly. So for those critisizing it if you can do better then do so. Otherwise he is the only one with this resource/tool that helps newbies. Fact is because of all the shady crap that goes on here, its important to have some resource. Honestly based on his guide, who would you go for? Bitmain is at the top of the list. Can anyone disagree that they are not currently top of the heap in the miner world? If you can clearly explain why? They win out on price (the numbers don't lie), performance, and delivery. How many others on that list are doing that? He does his best and that is all anyone can ask. Hence the request to sticky it. If those of you complaining can come up with something better OR are willing to collaborate to come up with something better then do so. I think all his hard (FREE) work deserves the recognition here for those new to the community to see, hence the sticky request.

Seriously doge most bitcoin manufacturers these days are not to be trusted. The best in the business KnC, bitmain, spondoolies all three of them have all delivered underspec miners lately. So what purpose does this guide serve if none of the manufacturers are to be trusted ? Stickying bad information is just bad business imho.  

Remember at this time his guides provide awareness for the available hardware options ready for purchase.

It validates the first step of the journey when one sets on the path to purchase mining hardware.

Ultimately the end result of no guides is more victims of failed projects or disingenuous claims by unscrupulous individuals.

As far as I am conserned those who wish to jump in and try mining. Best Bet based on my experience is bitmain s3 offering. b4 b5 and soon to ship b6. It gets you to the front of the line as far as dilivery times with a respecable j/gh.

Come oct/nov I expect to see other options from other venders become available.

And lest us not forget that if there is any doubt others can perform similar report's to substantiate report results.

EDIT FOR SPELLING

[dogie]

The people have voted democratically in the negative, and then you complain that there's no point putting it to a vote because it will always come out negative.   Thats ridiculous!

I said it wouldn't match up with the comments in the thread, which it doesn't. Trolls are more likely to spam vote, and more likely to use alts to spam vote because they're malicious.

BTW, for a specific example, i asked Cointerra yesterday via email and got a response back today that they claim to have not given you a freebie miner...  you managed to be very tough on their scores...

Wait what, LOL? You were complaining that I had Cointerra too high and wasn't listening, but are now complaining that because I hadn't received 'free' CoinTerra hardware, I am now biased and have purposely put them too low. You are a troll.

If the guide was more democratic (decentralised even) or more 'fact based' and less 'opinion based', it would be completely different.

I've said this 15x now, I have no control over the scoring of any company there, every single attribute is fixed within the scoring system. Does a company have refund issues? Yes. Have some refunds been paid? 5/10. There is no opinion there.

[dogie]

...or takes into account the countless threads that point to inconsistencies in some fabricators trustworthiness who are listed on his guide...

This is the argument that wants all 'bad' companies to have 1 trust - again I don't have control of this in a numerical system. They get the scores the system gives them in each category, which provides an overall score. I'm not sure what adding more people to come to exactly the same conclusion would be. There is no 'dogie smudge factor' with the latest system, its totally open and transparent.

No. This is an argument you are not taking into account others opinions and that it would require other outside opinions or data to balance out your personal opinions on those who have caused a great deal of harm to a significant number of people. Your scale is flawed or biased take your pick and it can always be improved.

You should refine your system or add more people to the process to have this guide stickied. However yours is the best guide even with those narrow limitations of a single editor being placed on it. You are one person with an inherent bias like any other individual on this planet no matter how transparent you are you are still bias. The assumptions you make bleed into the system you build and without taking measure of alternative opinions particularly those that have had many negative experiences with some of those with "positive" ratings your system is flawed.

6th time now. THERE ARE NO OPINIONS IN THIS SYSTEM.

[Biffa]

What we normally do in other forums is have a sticky with "Useful links" which would have all the guides, and reviews of hardware that are put together.

Then slap a disclaimer at the top, something to the effect of how its up to the reader to digest the information and come up with their own conclusions etc etc, with a dose of Caveat Emptor ad-infinitum and there you go. Everyone is happy.

[dogie]

I think all his hard (FREE) work

I'm certainly not trying to be a douche here but it could be argued that he is not working for free but instead working for free miners.  A mans gotta eat, I get that and don't have an issue with it at all.  I just don't think the forum should add any weight to it by stickying it, it can stand on its own merits IMO.

I said this a few pages back, but I do NOT make money off setup guides, categorically I lose money. The unit might be 'free', but the time and equipment costs are not. Its not pointing a camera phone at a unit and uploading to imgur, its professional equipment with professional processing. And then the cell based stress testing. And then the me sitting here across 25 guides providing tech support, for free.

The only people who actually make money off the setup guides are the companies. I do this as a service for the community - maybe I should stop?

[dogie]

No hell no...

Dogie gave A rating to shady lightningasic a shady company which may turn into a chinese BFL... So no...

They are currently 11th with a score of 54, what do you want :/

[opieum2]

I think all his hard (FREE) work

I'm certainly not trying to be a douche here but it could be argued that he is not working for free but instead working for free miners.  A mans gotta eat, I get that and don't have an issue with it at all.  I just don't think the forum should add any weight to it by stickying it, it can stand on its own merits IMO.

I said this a few pages back, but I do NOT make money off setup guides, categorically I lose money. The unit might be 'free', but the time and equipment costs are not. Its not pointing a camera phone at a unit and uploading to imgur, its professional equipment with professional processing. And then the cell based stress testing. And then the me sitting here across 25 guides providing tech support, for free.

The only people who actually make money off the setup guides are the companies. I do this as a service for the community - maybe I should stop?

Honestly with all the trolling and flaming that goes on here, what this community actually needs is real moderation. Or a better managed community. It's insane to see how much crap people get away with. This was meant to be a simple sticky request. And its turned into a flame war. I think enough opinions have been expressed to make the point. Again apologies for putting you through this dogie, this was not my goal. It had hoped to just see some +1s and such but instead its degenerated like many posts in to a flame war.