9/11 derail: rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;)

[nioc]

Or a sociopathically delusional one.
In case of a global Ebola outbreak, who gives a fuck about our little money experiment?

History shows that civilization doesn't stop due to global anomalies, wars, disease, financial metldowns etc. Neither will Bitcoin - which is far more than our "little money experiment". Show will go on - as always. The only question is whether we'll be part of the show or not...

Sound money will be weapons, ammo, canned food and medicines. The odds for survival in such a situation are more in favour of the most cruel and fittest men than in favour a bunch of bitcoin nerds like you and me, so pray your gods we will never have to witness such a catastrophic event in our lifetime.

Guns and canned food won't really save one from a pandemic virus. Neither will medicine (for other stuff).

True and in any catastrophic event , common things required for sustaining life will be much valuable than any crypto.

And how will you buy them, if government has nullified -by law- the value of paper currency in favor of electronic currencies, as to "prevent people from spreading the virus"?

Either gold/silver, or cryptos. Or plain' old bartering of one thing with another. We'll see how it goes, if it ever materializes as a global eventuality. Let's hope that it doesn't though.

Ebola is spread only through the exchange of bodily fluids.  Therefore it doesn't spread as easily as the flu which you can catch through airborne water droplets when somebody coughs.  Getting rid of paper currency doesn't do anything.  Remember not to touch your eyes as this is the only part of your body that exposes the inside of your body and therefore is the primary gateway for all types of nasties.

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[AlexGR]

Ebola is spread only through the exchange of bodily fluids.  Therefore it doesn't spread as easily as the flu which you can catch through airborne water droplets when somebody coughs.  Getting rid of paper currency doesn't do anything.  Remember not to touch your eyes as this is the only part of your body that exposes the inside of your body and therefore is the primary gateway for all types of nasties.

But sweaty hands do touch coins and paper notes - even if that sweat is imperceptible. Also people sneeze or exhale small droplets with their exhalation, so things tend to get airborne*.

There are two assumptions right now:

1. It is not airborne
2. It is not transmitted in the incubation period

...neither assumption is very strong.

* It could also be made airborne intentionally: http://rt.com/news/178992-ebola-biological-weapon-terrorists

The original author was talking 30-60% population reduction, which I can't see happening without subsequent mass fear, hiding, suspicion, riots, revolts, pillaging and the like.

The factors you mention are "extra". Mortality rate through the virus alone is 60%.

We'll see how this story develops and whether it affects cash being banned at some stage during the next months / years. If this happens, it also has the potential to create a massive boom in the anon-currencies, as they are better equipped to replace cash than Bitcoin due to their privacy.

[rpietila]

Ebola is spread only through the exchange of bodily fluids.  Therefore it doesn't spread as easily as the flu which you can catch through airborne water droplets when somebody coughs.  Getting rid of paper currency doesn't do anything.  Remember not to touch your eyes as this is the only part of your body that exposes the inside of your body and therefore is the primary gateway for all types of nasties.

Truth does not matter. The U.S. demolished WTC 1, 2 and 7, blaming it on ragheads that supposedly flew 2 planes towards WTC 1 and 2. (Note that the number of buildings demolished exceeds the number of planes by 1.) As a consequence, billions of security searches are now conducted throughout the world annually, with the main goal of conditioning people to accept ridiculous and unfounded orders as a part of their job, and ridiculous and unfounded procedures as a condition of exercising a very basic human right - to travel around the world. (And this was just an example, the real atrocities are found in other parts of Patriot Act, nicely prepared before the event.)

[SlipperySlope]

Here is the latest bitcoin adjusted transaction quantity graph with log scale and 7-day moving average. Note the transaction quantity in the month of August  is now above May levels. The Bitstamp bitcoin price in May peaked at $683.

[BowieMan]

Here is the latest bitcoin adjusted transaction quantity graph with log scale and 7-day moving average. Note the transaction quantity in the month of August  is now above May levels. The Bitstamp bitcoin price in May peaked at $683.

We really seem to be on an upswing what adoption is concerned. I think over the summer a lot of people got to know Bitcoin or talked about it with friends. Now that the summer is nearing its end, and people will soon get back from their holidays, the demand may increase again.

[ArticMine]

Ebola is spread only through the exchange of bodily fluids.  Therefore it doesn't spread as easily as the flu which you can catch through airborne water droplets when somebody coughs.  Getting rid of paper currency doesn't do anything.  Remember not to touch your eyes as this is the only part of your body that exposes the inside of your body and therefore is the primary gateway for all types of nasties.

But sweaty hands do touch coins and paper notes - even if that sweat is imperceptible. Also people sneeze or exhale small droplets with their exhalation, so things tend to get airborne*.

There are two assumptions right now:

1. It is not airborne
2. It is not transmitted in the incubation period

...neither assumption is very strong.

* It could also be made airborne intentionally: http://rt.com/news/178992-ebola-biological-weapon-terrorists

The original author was talking 30-60% population reduction, which I can't see happening without subsequent mass fear, hiding, suspicion, riots, revolts, pillaging and the like.

The factors you mention are "extra". Mortality rate through the virus alone is 60%.

We'll see how this story develops and whether it affects cash being banned at some stage during the next months / years. If this happens, it also has the potential to create a massive boom in the anon-currencies, as they are better equipped to replace cash than Bitcoin due to their privacy.

Banning cash has been the goal of those trying to control the population for well over two decades. The trouble is that the poor refuse to play along simply because account based payment methods (banking, debit cards etc.) make no economic sense at all, for them or their service providers. Furthermore AML/KNC and anti money laundering laws have made providing banking services to the poor even less cost effective. We must keep in mind that it costs roughly the same for a financial institution to do AML/KNC on someone who has has a net worth of 10,000,000 USD or 1 USD. The profit for the financial institution is greater in the first case by a factor of 7 orders of magnitude or more. The economic reality is that banning cash requires eliminating poverty. When it comes to privacy or transactions involving poor people, for in person transactions, it is very hard to beat low tech solutions such as cash and a hoodie. It is online and at a distance where crypto-currencies such as BTC and XMR can shine providing both privacy and a cost effective method for the poor to send and receive money.  

By the way the opportunity for the wealthy in BTC or XMR is as an investment and / or a store of value. For the poor it is as a way to send and receive money in a cost effective manner. This creates a rather unusual synergy between those at the top and those at the bottom of the financial pyramid. Ironically those in the middle say a wage earning consumer that does not do international transactions may end up benefiting the least.

[birr]

The U.S. demolished WTC 1, 2 and 7, blaming it on ragheads

This nutty conspiracy theory that the fall of the WTC was an inside job doesn't wash, Risto.
Passenger airliners flying out of Boston hit the towers.  Those buildings were 110 storeys tall.  The entire mass of those buildings pancaked straight down.  It's kind of surprising they only took one other building with them.
You remind me of an Egyptian friend I knew many years.  He came up to me and said, you know they warned all the Jews before the buildings fell down, right?
Abysmal.
I've been living in New York City since 1981.  I've heard enough ridiculous statements from ignorant people.

[btcbeliever]

Truth does not matter. The U.S. demolished WTC 1, 2 and 7, blaming it on ragheads that supposedly flew 2 planes towards WTC 1 and 2. (Note that the number of buildings demolished exceeds the number of planes by 1.) As a consequence, billions of security searches are now conducted throughout the world annually, with the main goal of conditioning people to accept ridiculous and unfounded orders as a part of their job, and ridiculous and unfounded procedures as a condition of exercising a very basic human right - to travel around the world. (And this was just an example, the real atrocities are found in other parts of Patriot Act, nicely prepared before the event.)

Right on Risto! Listen folks!  If you can handle the truth watch 'loose change final cut' on youtube.  And check out alex jones on www.infowars.com.  I one thought 9/11 truthers were all crazies, but now it's incredibly obvious it was all a fraud from A to z.  Alex Jones opened my eyes.

[aminorex]

The U.S. demolished WTC 1, 2 and 7, blaming it on ragheads

This nutty conspiracy theory that the fall of the WTC was an inside job doesn't wash, Risto.
Passenger airliners flying out of Boston hit the towers.  Those buildings were 110 storeys tall.  The entire mass of those buildings pancaked straight down.  It's kind of surprising they only took one other building with them.
You remind me of an Egyptian friend I knew many years.  He came up to me and said, you know they warned all the Jews before the buildings fell down, right?
Abysmal.
I've been living in New York City since 1981.  I've heard enough ridiculous statements from ignorant people.

You mean nutty conspiracy fact.  http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/odigo_9-11_warning.html
There are many, many other nutty conspiracy facts about the destruction of the world trade center complex (more than 3 buildings in fact),
but we should all be ashamed of ourselves for allowing Risto to lead us off-topic.

[MNDan]

I was enjoying this thread until people started getting...uh...paranoid. Or maybe it's one big level.

[kireinaha]

I respected Risto's intellect until I realized on this page that he's another of the 9/11 "truther" idiots.

[niner]

The U.S. demolished WTC 1, 2 and 7, blaming it on ragheads

This nutty conspiracy theory that the fall of the WTC was an inside job doesn't wash, Risto.
Passenger airliners flying out of Boston hit the towers.  Those buildings were 110 storeys tall.  The entire mass of those buildings pancaked straight down.  It's kind of surprising they only took one other building with them.
You remind me of an Egyptian friend I knew many years.  He came up to me and said, you know they warned all the Jews before the buildings fell down, right?
Abysmal.
I've been living in New York City since 1981.  I've heard enough ridiculous statements from ignorant people.

You mean nutty conspiracy fact.  http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/odigo_9-11_warning.html
There are many, many other nutty conspiracy facts about the destruction of the world trade center complex (more than 3 buildings in fact),
but we should all be ashamed of ourselves for allowing Risto to lead us off-topic.

An architect named Richard Gage was on CSPAN just this month.
He said that most structural engineers (as is the case with the general public) have not
heard about what happened at building 7 on 9/11.  But when they (the engineers) do find out
about it they overwhelmingly agree with him that only a controlled demolition
could have caused the collapse.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtGhjzI9rw4

[Raystonn]

Pathetic ignorance.  Educated individuals look for data that contradicts their held beliefs that they might be bolstered by a lack of refutable evidence.  The pathetic look only for data and opinions that support their beliefs, that they may appeal to popularity and hope the rest of the world doesn't notice their fallacies.

It only took a simple Google search to find this in the first few results:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2056088/Footage-kills-conspiracy-theories-Rare-footage-shows-WTC-7-consumed-fire.html

[farfiman]

It only took a simple Google search to find this in the first few results:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2056088/Footage-kills-conspiracy-theories-Rare-footage-shows-WTC-7-consumed-fire.html

Since when does a skyscraper collapse from fire?

[simplecrypto]

www.cluesforum.info

It is the only thing you need to know about 911. All credit to Simon and the gang. I read about it first in 2010 and my eyes are now trained well to spot actors and fakes in everyday media stories.

Alex Jones/ Truthers etc are all bullshit to keep everyone disillusioned about the whole charade that has been the main weapon of governments and realms for years and years - Media manipulation and fakery.

Some of you will laugh it out. Some will outright attack me and dismiss me. And then some will be engrossed for the next few weeks and or months as you finally realize how everything works.

Here is a simple, primer video to understand how hoaxes work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYkHAmLw-f8

[akujin]

It only took a simple Google search to find this in the first few results:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2056088/Footage-kills-conspiracy-theories-Rare-footage-shows-WTC-7-consumed-fire.html

Since when does a skyscraper collapse from fire?

Since 9/11... LOL! 

[nioc]

It only took a simple Google search to find this in the first few results:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2056088/Footage-kills-conspiracy-theories-Rare-footage-shows-WTC-7-consumed-fire.html

Since when does a skyscraper collapse from fire?

A hot enough fire weakens metal.  Jet fuel, diesel or heating oil burn very hot.  If there is enough fuel to burn for an extended period of time things happen. 

What caused the twin towers to collapse?  It wasn't the direct hit from the airplanes or the weight of the airplanes on the structure.  Without the extended fire from the jet fuel the buildings wouldn't have collapsed.

If you have an extended hot fire at the base of a building it will also cause a structural failure and then there is nothing to hold the building up.

The buildings that collapsed experienced very unique and unusual circumstances. 

[RAJSALLIN]

It only took a simple Google search to find this in the first few results:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2056088/Footage-kills-conspiracy-theories-Rare-footage-shows-WTC-7-consumed-fire.html

Since when does a skyscraper collapse from fire?

A hot enough fire weakens metal.  Jet fuel, diesel or heating oil burn very hot.  If there is enough fuel to burn for an extended period of time things happen. 

What caused the twin towers to collapse?  It wasn't the direct hit from the airplanes or the weight of the airplanes on the structure.  Without the extended fire from the jet fuel the buildings wouldn't have collapsed.

If you have an extended hot fire at the base of a building it will also cause a structural failure and then there is nothing to hold the building up.

The buildings that collapsed experienced very unique and unusual circumstances. 

This is incorrect and what they want you to believe. Yes heat does weaken steal but it doesn't weaken it to the extent that a steal frame would collapse. Especially not in a controlled manner.

[ErisDiscordia]

The U.S. demolished WTC 1, 2 and 7, blaming it on ragheads

This nutty conspiracy theory that the fall of the WTC was an inside job doesn't wash, Risto.
Passenger airliners flying out of Boston hit the towers.  Those buildings were 110 storeys tall.  The entire mass of those buildings pancaked straight down.  It's kind of surprising they only took one other building with them.
You remind me of an Egyptian friend I knew many years.  He came up to me and said, you know they warned all the Jews before the buildings fell down, right?
Abysmal.
I've been living in New York City since 1981.  I've heard enough ridiculous statements from ignorant people.

I respected Risto's intellect until I realized on this page that he's another of the 9/11 "truther" idiots.

To believe that conspiracies don't happen is to fall prey to what I call the Great Conspiracy.

"Conspiracy theorist" has become the universal derogatory term with which to label anyone unwilling to line up behind the official cultural narrative without the need to actually engage him/her in meaningful discussion or to present facts which contradict his/her theory. Exactly like the term "communist" some decades ago.

To believe any one conspiracy theory to be 100% false, especially without consulting the evidence, is as insane as believing any one of them to be 100% true. This is outdated artistotelian either/or thinking which just doesn't cut it when thinking about complex phenomena.

The fact that people are routinely dismissing conspiracy theories from a position of arrogant superiority without feeling the need to engage the evidence (because they KNOW what is true and what is not...) seems extremely worrying to me as it indicates a captured population which has been trained to unquestioningly trust authority and even attack anyone who dares suggest that the authorities are not benevolent and wise.

Shame on you, people! Go read Robert Anton Wilsons work on conspiracy theories and learn how think about them in a sane manner - namely by assigning probabilities to various parts of presented theories according to your best effort at interpretin g the currently available facts. HURR DURR you are stupid because conspiracies makes you just look like a pathetic lemming.

EDIT: just to give you guys an example of what I'm talking about, let's consider the 9/11 case.

The theory here is that the US government (or parts of it) knew about the attacks before they happened or maybe even partly or completely organized them. If true, this would not present anything unprecedented as far as actions of governments go. Oppressive regimes routinely stage false flag operations in order to consolidate public opinion against a presented enemy, or pass legislation deemed unacceptable under regular conditions. So the most important part of the theory - the motive of the actor, can be deemed plausible for it has precedents. This is further supported by the speed with which the US gov responded with the PATRIOT act - it looks like they were prepared.

As for the actual logistics of the attack, whether steel beams can collapse from the heat generated by burning fuel, whether towers will collapse with such speed as they have when not destroyed by controlled demolition, where the plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon went, what about building 7...I am not sure about these things for I don't consider myself an expert in any areas of knowledge needed to form an expert opinion here. I do consider the circumstances highly suspicious though and the official story seems to have holes in it. Overall, considering the possible motives of the US gov, I am assigning a probability of 50 - 70% that the US gov was at least partly aware and participating in the attacks. In other words I consider it more likely than not, that they had something to do with it. After all, when I consider incidents which prompted the US to go to war in the past (sinking of Lusitania, Pearl Harbor, Gulf of Tonkin) it would be the exception, not the rule if this was not a false flag operation.

[sidhujag]

It only took a simple Google search to find this in the first few results:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2056088/Footage-kills-conspiracy-theories-Rare-footage-shows-WTC-7-consumed-fire.html

Since when does a skyscraper collapse from fire?

A hot enough fire weakens metal.  Jet fuel, diesel or heating oil burn very hot.  If there is enough fuel to burn for an extended period of time things happen.  

What caused the twin towers to collapse?  It wasn't the direct hit from the airplanes or the weight of the airplanes on the structure.  Without the extended fire from the jet fuel the buildings wouldn't have collapsed.

If you have an extended hot fire at the base of a building it will also cause a structural failure and then there is nothing to hold the building up.

The buildings that collapsed experienced very unique and unusual circumstances.  

That and the structural beams that hold the towers up were all cut to a Tee of 45 degrees that people can all see pics of. The only way this happens is if it was pre cut and fabricated and makes sense that a single fire can knock such a big building down in one swoop without affecting the others.

How about the insurance stocks that secretly shot up with big orders the days leading up to it? Whats this I hear that Bush's relatives or he was the head of the security servailance team or something leading up to the attack... too many things to obvious that it was coordinated to invade another country for its resources.