9/11 derail: rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;)

[BombaUcigasa]

This is incorrect and what they want you to believe. Yes heat does weaken steal but it doesn't weaken it to the extent that a steal frame would collapse. Especially not in a controlled manner.

Crazy + grammar + ignorance.

You should study a bit before you watch too many propaganda videos...

[RoadStress]

A hot enough fire weakens metal.  Jet fuel, diesel or heating oil burn very hot.  If there is enough fuel to burn for an extended period of time things happen. 

What caused the twin towers to collapse?  It wasn't the direct hit from the airplanes or the weight of the airplanes on the structure.  Without the extended fire from the jet fuel the buildings wouldn't have collapsed.

If you have an extended hot fire at the base of a building it will also cause a structural failure and then there is nothing to hold the building up.

The buildings that collapsed experienced very unique and unusual circumstances. 

WTC steel was tested for 2000 degrees C and the kerosene's open air burning temperature is around 350 degrees C. You can't have a fire that burns at 350 degrees burn something that melts at 2000 degrees.

[molecular]

It only took a simple Google search to find this in the first few results:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2056088/Footage-kills-conspiracy-theories-Rare-footage-shows-WTC-7-consumed-fire.html

Since when does a skyscraper collapse from fire?

A hot enough fire weakens metal.  Jet fuel, diesel or heating oil burn very hot.  If there is enough fuel to burn for an extended period of time things happen.  

What caused the twin towers to collapse?  It wasn't the direct hit from the airplanes or the weight of the airplanes on the structure.  Without the extended fire from the jet fuel the buildings wouldn't have collapsed.

to explain building 7 collapse from fire, you're using the only other example of a skyscraper collapsing (apparently) from fire: the twin towers. lol. of course those were also demolished on purpose, maybe using some sort of nanothermite.

I don't know of any case (other than 9/11) where a steel-framed building collapsed from fire. You?

The buildings that collapsed experienced very unique and unusual circumstances.  

Indeed. Man-made ones specifically prepared to bring them down.

[molecular]

This is incorrect and what they want you to believe. Yes heat does weaken steal but it doesn't weaken it to the extent that a steal frame would collapse. Especially not in a controlled manner.

Crazy + grammar + ignorance.

You should study a bit before you watch too many propaganda videos...

Your resorting to ad hominems speaks volumes.

to quote ErisDiscordia from just a few posts back:

The fact that people are routinely dismissing conspiracy theories from a position of arrogant superiority without feeling the need to engage the evidence (because they KNOW what is true and what is not...) seems extremely worrying to me as it indicates a captured population which has been trained to unquestioningly trust authority and even attack anyone who dares suggest that the authorities are not benevolent and wise.

Shame on you, people!

[Wary]

People! Go vote about 9/11! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=730862.0  Every vote matters! 

[Bagatell]

I respected Risto's intellect until I realized on this page that he's another of the 9/11 "truther" idiots.

Professor Buttcorn and co would probably say the same about you and your support of Bitcoin. Ironic, eh?

[Wary]

I respected Risto's intellect until I realized on this page that he's another of the 9/11 "truther" idiots.

It's not about intellect. It's other cognitive feature, I'm not sure what to call it. Skepticism? Gullibility? Self-deception? It's compatible with any level of intellect, from very high to very low.

[ErisDiscordia]

I respected Risto's intellect until I realized on this page that he's another of the 9/11 "truther" idiots.

It's not about intellect. It's other cognitive feature, I'm not sure what to call it. Skepticism? Gullibility? Self-deception? It's compatible with any level of intellect, from very high to very low.

Heh. When you respect someones intellect but suddenly lose that respect because you disagree with some conclusions (which were arrived at by a respectable intellect!) you lose that respect? Seems to me this says more about your intellect than his

[kireinaha]

I respected Risto's intellect until I realized on this page that he's another of the 9/11 "truther" idiots.

It's not about intellect. It's other cognitive feature, I'm not sure what to call it. Skepticism? Gullibility? Self-deception? It's compatible with any level of intellect, from very high to very low.

Heh. When you respect someones intellect but suddenly lose that respect because you disagree with some conclusions (which were arrived at by a respectable intellect!) you lose that respect? Seems to me this says more about your intellect than his

Anyone who is delusional enough to buy into a massive conspiracy that would necessarily involve tens of thousands of individuals in not only the government, but also aviation, engineering, explosives, and building security... all of whom have kept their mouths shut all this time about the empty airplanes (or the rockets on airplanes... or just rockets or whatever the hell the nuts want to believe now), all the explosives rigged up in the buildings weeks in advance, and the crews who went around the building discreetly planting the explosives in what would be the largest planned demolition of a building ever... all in the goal to kill their fellow countrymen in cold blood...

(this would be the same government, by the way, that couldn't even keep a presidential blow job secret for long) .... yes, I do begin to doubt the intellectual capacities of anyone who could believe in such drivel.

[Wekkel]

I respected Risto's intellect until I realized on this page that he's another of the 9/11 "truther" idiots.

It's not about intellect. It's other cognitive feature, I'm not sure what to call it. Skepticism? Gullibility? Self-deception? It's compatible with any level of intellect, from very high to very low.

Heh. When you respect someones intellect but suddenly lose that respect because you disagree with some conclusions (which were arrived at by a respectable intellect!) you lose that respect? Seems to me this says more about your intellect than his

It's called human nature....

[Wary]

I respected Risto's intellect until I realized on this page that he's another of the 9/11 "truther" idiots.

It's not about intellect. It's other cognitive feature, I'm not sure what to call it. Skepticism? Gullibility? Self-deception? It's compatible with any level of intellect, from very high to very low.

Heh. When you respect someones intellect but suddenly lose that respect because you disagree with some conclusions (which were arrived at by a respectable intellect!) you lose that respect? Seems to me this says more about your intellect than his

That's why I said it's not about intellect. I respect risto's intellect and believe it's stronger than mine, but it doesn't mean that it always produces better results than mine does. Humans are not computers, and no human conclusion is made using intellect only. Smart people sometimes can believe in stupid things, just because they want to believe in them.

[rpietila]

Anyone who is delusional enough to buy into a massive conspiracy that would necessarily involve tens of thousands of individuals in not only the government, but also aviation, engineering, explosives, and building security... all of whom have kept their mouths shut all this time about the empty airplanes (or the rockets on airplanes... or just rockets or whatever the hell the nuts want to believe now), all the explosives rigged up in the buildings weeks in advance, and the crews who went around the building discreetly planting the explosives in what would be the largest planned demolition of a building ever... all in the goal to kill their fellow countrymen in cold blood...

(this would be the same government, by the way, that couldn't even keep a presidential blow job secret for long) .... yes, I do begin to doubt the intellectual capacities of anyone who could believe in such drivel.

No of course they did not. Many have spoken out, some lost their lives for it. Respect the martyrs and shut up, please.

The truth is about to hit you hard. With one minute google search you will find enough to read to permanently change your thinking about this subject. The condition is, of course, that you have the cognitive ability to understand what you read, and some background in science to verify the hard evidence. But most of people have those. The problem is their brainwash. (Somebody better versed in this area can explain, I lack the correct words.)

I've begun to think that the reason why more and more unbelievable things are propagated as truth in mass media, is to gauge the individual people's reactions via social media. You are graded in a scale of most gullible to least gullible. This list is kept for future purposes. Then there is a breaking point when you decide to actively disbelieve everything, the attitude that if it's on the mass media, it is more likely false than true, and anyway not good for me. That is a point of no return, your life has just started.  

[molecular]

I've begun to think that the reason why more and more unbelievable things are propagated as truth in mass media, is to gauge the individual people's reactions via social media. You are graded in a scale of most gullible to least gullible. This list is kept for future purposes. Then there is a breaking point when you decide to actively disbelieve everything, the attitude that if it's on the mass media, it is more likely false than true, and anyway not good for me. That is a point of no return, your life has just started.  

fucking red pill. Can be hard to digest at times...

[ErisDiscordia]

I respected Risto's intellect until I realized on this page that he's another of the 9/11 "truther" idiots.

It's not about intellect. It's other cognitive feature, I'm not sure what to call it. Skepticism? Gullibility? Self-deception? It's compatible with any level of intellect, from very high to very low.

Heh. When you respect someones intellect but suddenly lose that respect because you disagree with some conclusions (which were arrived at by a respectable intellect!) you lose that respect? Seems to me this says more about your intellect than his

Anyone who is delusional enough to buy into a massive conspiracy that would necessarily involve tens of thousands of individuals in not only the government, but also aviation, engineering, explosives, and building security... all of whom have kept their mouths shut all this time about the empty airplanes (or the rockets on airplanes... or just rockets or whatever the hell the nuts want to believe now), all the explosives rigged up in the buildings weeks in advance, and the crews who went around the building discreetly planting the explosives in what would be the largest planned demolition of a building ever... all in the goal to kill their fellow countrymen in cold blood...

(this would be the same government, by the way, that couldn't even keep a presidential blow job secret for long) .... yes, I do begin to doubt the intellectual capacities of anyone who could believe in such drivel.

well this is a straw man I'd say. You have cherry-picked the most difficult to believe parts of 9/11 conspiracy theories, yet those are not the only ones in existence. For instance it is possible that the towers indeed collapsed just due to the impacts of the airplanes, yet US gov was aware of the attack.

Anyways I don't see a reason to debate this with you. You seem to have made up your mind already and you have categorized people with a different opinion with certain derogatory labels. In other words, your mind has stopped receiving new signals concerning the subject matter and thus killed any potential for a beneficial discussion.

My point here has always been that absolute belief is dangerous. And it doesn't matter if it is absolute belief in your favorite conspiracy theory, in your government, in your religion or in your conviction that there are no conspiracies. The refusal to consider an idea and the insulting of its proponents reeks of dogma to me and I'm allergic to that shit 

Oh and let me take this chance to state my own personal bias: while I don't support ANY dogma, I am much more sympathetic towards people believing their own conspiracy theories than towards people who stand firmly behind the official cultural narrative. It's just a personal aesthetic preference, so take it as such.

[RAJSALLIN]

This is incorrect and what they want you to believe. Yes heat does weaken steal but it doesn't weaken it to the extent that a steal frame would collapse. Especially not in a controlled manner.

Crazy + grammar + ignorance.

You should study a bit before you watch too many propaganda videos...

Blind + sheep + sad

[rpietila]

There will hopefully be pictures about our current summer retreat soon in the instagram page.

http://instagram.com/mallaretreat

[kodtycoon]

I respected Risto's intellect until I realized on this page that he's another of the 9/11 "truther" idiots.

It's not about intellect. It's other cognitive feature, I'm not sure what to call it. Skepticism? Gullibility? Self-deception? It's compatible with any level of intellect, from very high to very low.

Heh. When you respect someones intellect but suddenly lose that respect because you disagree with some conclusions (which were arrived at by a respectable intellect!) you lose that respect? Seems to me this says more about your intellect than his

Anyone who is delusional enough to buy into a massive conspiracy that would necessarily involve tens of thousands of individuals in not only the government, but also aviation, engineering, explosives, and building security... all of whom have kept their mouths shut all this time about the empty airplanes (or the rockets on airplanes... or just rockets or whatever the hell the nuts want to believe now), all the explosives rigged up in the buildings weeks in advance, and the crews who went around the building discreetly planting the explosives in what would be the largest planned demolition of a building ever... all in the goal to kill their fellow countrymen in cold blood...

(this would be the same government, by the way, that couldn't even keep a presidential blow job secret for long) .... yes, I do begin to doubt the intellectual capacities of anyone who could believe in such drivel.

if it's such drivel, explain how the buildings came down in free fall? The termite residue? The multon iron pools. The multiple multiple records of explosive blast in the basement before the first plane hit? The third tower that came down in the same fashion with out being hit by any plane? How the central pillar fell to dust when if it did collapse due to fire damage that central pillar should have stayed up as that's what it's built for. What about the 3rd plane that "evaporated" on impact with the Pentagon which is scientifically impossible no matter how you slice it.

If your disillusioned enough to think that the US government wouldn't do something like that TO START A WAR, you really need to do more research into the first second, Vietnam and most other wars.

In Ukraine over ten thousand people have been killed. Mostly on the rebel side, and what do the Americans(American controlled NATO to be more precise) do? Send the Kiev army 4.5m dollars in aid.

Weapons of mass destruction? PAAAHA

Asama bin Laden = terrorist? Former close friend of Bush admin on via payroll more like

Isreal.. Thousands dead, over 300 children, America treble the military funding for poor old Israel.

Oh no Isis are getting close to an oil refinery... We better bomb them while congress are conveniently on holiday!!

[Wary]

I am much more sympathetic towards people believing their own conspiracy theories than towards people who stand firmly behind the official cultural narrative. It's just a personal aesthetic preference, so take it as such.

And which percentage of them believe in their own conspiracy theories? I'm afraid, anti-official side is as reach with blind believers as the the official one. They just believe in opposite kind of nonsense.

[BombaUcigasa]

WTC steel was tested for 2000 degrees C and the kerosene's open air burning temperature is around 350 degrees C. You can't have a fire that burns at 350 degrees burn something that melts at 2000 degrees.

Bullshit lies: Max adiabatic burn temperature   2,500 K (2,230 °C) (4,040 °F) Open Air Burn temperature: 1,030 °C (1,890 °F)
Bullshit lies #2: Pure Iron ('Steel' with 0% Carbon) starts to melt at 1,492 °C (2,718 °F), and is completely liquid upon reaching 1,539 °C (2,802 °F). Steel with 2.1% Carbon by weight begins melting at 1,130 °C (2,070 °F), and is completely molten upon reaching 1,315 °C (2,399 °F)

Do you guys even Wikipedia?!

This is incorrect and what they want you to believe. Yes heat does weaken steal but it doesn't weaken it to the extent that a steal frame would collapse. Especially not in a controlled manner.

Crazy + grammar + ignorance.

You should study a bit before you watch too many propaganda videos...

Your resorting to ad hominems speaks volumes.

You don't need to take crazy paranoid comments seriously when they spout retarded shit. Just look at the numbers and ask yourself why would you endorse his arguments while disregarding reality?

[ErisDiscordia]

I am much more sympathetic towards people believing their own conspiracy theories than towards people who stand firmly behind the official cultural narrative. It's just a personal aesthetic preference, so take it as such.

And which percentage of them believe in their own conspiracy theories? I'm afraid, anti-official side is as reach with blind believers as the the official one. They just believe in opposite kind of nonsense.

oh of course that is what I see as well: full of blind faith on either side of the argument. That's why I mentioned earlier that I find the anti-authoritarian narratives more aesthetically pleasing but that is all.

You rightfully point out that it is not "their own" conspiracy theories people tend to believe: they adopt them. I suspect many of them are driven by the same impulse as hipsters - trying to feel better/smarter than the population in general by being different/believing something different. On the other hand, supporters of official theories dismissing conspiracy theorists as feeble minded delusional paranoids seem to be engaging in pretty similar one-upmanship through making themselves feel better, because they "don't believe in THAT drivel" (instead they believe in other, more popular and widely accepted drivel  )

Ah the ways in which we delude ourselves are endless and intelligent discussion is seldom to be found.