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Author Topic: World War III  (Read 34275 times)
johny08
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August 17, 2014, 10:26:34 PM
 #61

That might be how it turned out, but I'd say that not only are we not out of the woods yet, but also that there were several times in which it was sheer luck a nuclear war didn't start - the Cuban missile crisis comes to mind.

But there is something else you have to consider: even if not directly, these nations didn't stop fighting amongst themselves - they instead turned to proxy wars and other indirect means (though arguably no less significant for those caught up in them).

You are correct to say that we have had several close calls of nuclear war breaking out, however I doubt that either country likely has the balls to be the first to attack the other because of the probably consequences. I think most countries would be willing to get all the way to the brink of war, but would likely not want to cross the threshold of attacking another country with nukes.

Proxy wars are generally not as damaging to society and the world as a whole when compared to larger conflicts. Fighting is generally much more localized and done in places that are much less developed. 

Sure, I don't believe anyone is crazy enough to push for a major nuclear war either, as I said above - but that doesn't change the fact that those close calls we've had in the past can still easily occur in the future; and we might not be so lucky next time.

As for proxy wars, coups, support of dictators, and whatever other means are used, they certainly aren't as immediately destructive as a major conflict would be, especially for those of us in a first world country that won't go through any of it. For anyone living through, sometimes, decades upon decades of these sorts of things however, I'm not sure they would necessarily care about the difference - dying at the hands of the local friendly dictator or with a bomb dropped on them by another nation, might not make much of a difference. Further, dismissing them as less developed and so not as important for society as a whole, ignores what part they could take, had they been given the chance. Finally, I see that line of reasoning as a sort of fallacy, in that it says that it's better for these types of policies to be followed, than a major conflict to occur - well, that ignores the obvious question: what is the reason for these conflicts to occur in the first place?
Proxy wars are no where near as destructive as "real" wars are as they generally take place in one smaller country as opposed to potentially the entire world.

The reason we have had many close calls and not actual outbreaks of war is because countries are afraid to "pull the trigger" against other countries that have nuclear weapons. 

The start of the WWIII has to happen with the strongest weapons we have - nuclear war! otherwise its not counting. What we have is the islamic revolution and its bloody enough for me. The Ukrainian are having a civil war between Rusian and Ukrainian people. Why should get this provinces independant, when there are Ukrainian people living and the Russian were put there in the Sowjet time by strategical reasons?
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August 17, 2014, 11:21:44 PM
Last edit: August 18, 2014, 06:03:51 AM by Balthazar
 #62

when there are Ukrainian people living and the Russian were put there in the Sowjet time by strategical reasons?
It seems like you don't know what really happened in the beginning of 20th century, because actual events were opposite to your description. These lands were parts of Russia/RSFSR until Lenin decided to move some western regions of russian republic into newly formed ukrainian state. This decision was made in order to make this ukrainian state self-sufficient in economical terms. There were 0% (yep, zero percent) of ukrainians on these lands until the middle of 1900s, but then some part of population was moved there from western ukraine. So if somebody wants to expel russians from the ukraine, then he will face with their decision to move away along with lands.
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August 18, 2014, 11:37:29 AM
 #63

when there are Ukrainian people living and the Russian were put there in the Sowjet time by strategical reasons?
It seems like you don't know what really happened in the beginning of 20th century, because actual events were opposite to your description. These lands were parts of Russia/RSFSR until Lenin decided to move some western regions of russian republic into newly formed ukrainian state. This decision was made in order to make this ukrainian state self-sufficient in economical terms. There were 0% (yep, zero percent) of ukrainians on these lands until the middle of 1900s, but then some part of population was moved there from western ukraine. So if somebody wants to expel russians from the ukraine, then he will face with their decision to move away along with lands.

text in RU, sorry, but it's special for Balthazar Wink

Apкaдий Бaбчeнкo

Иcтopия, oднaкo, yвлeкaтeльнeйшaя штyкa oкaзaлacь. Boт, нaпpимep, взять иcкoнныe зeмли. Hy, c Кpымoм вce пoнятнo. Иcкoннo pyccкиx зeмeль тaм oтpoдяcь нe былo. Xoшь кaк xoшь, a пo пpинципy "иcкoннocти" пpидeтcя oтдaть Гpeции. C кycкoм Кpacнoдapcкoгo кpaя. Пaтpeй, Фaнaгopия, гopгиппия - вoт этo вoт вce.
Hy, Taмaнь лaднo. He oчeнь тo и нaшe кaк бы.
Xyжe c Boлгoй.
Acтpaxaнь пpидeтcя oтдaть eвpeям. Hy a чтo дeлaть? Caмaя чтo ни нa ecть иcкoннaя Xaзapия, ничeгo нe пoпишeшь. Дepбeнт - пepcaм. Извинитe, дopoгиe дaгecтaнцы, нo этo тaк.
Cpeднюю Boлгy, Taтapcтaн, Ульнoвcкyю oблacть, Чyвaшию, Бaшкиpию и кycoк Кaмы - бoлгapaм. Кaк ни кpyти, нo вce ж тaки имeннo бoлгapы являютcя нaибoлee пpямыми пoтoмкaми бyлгap. Oни жe, кcтaти, мoгyт и зa Кpым пocпopить. Xoть и нe гpeки, кoнeчнo, нo тoжe пoиcкoннeй нac бyдyт в этoм вoпpoce.
Уpaл. Boт Уpaл peaльнo жaлкo. Ho пpидeтcя oтдaть. Beнгpaм. Унгpы, мaдьяpы - yгopcкoe плeмя (тюpкoязычнoe штoли? He пoмню yжe) yшeдшee в Eвpoпy c иcкoннoгo Южнo-Bocтoчнoгo Пoypaлья. Bы кaк xoтитe, кaнeшнa, нo вoт Уpaл мнe peaльнo пц кaк жaлкo.
Hy, вce чтo вocтoчнee и ceвepнee - дaжe гoвopить нe o чeм. Биapмия, или, пo дpyгoй вepcии, Пapмa, coбcтвeннo, co cвoeй Пepмью мoжeт дeлaть чтo xoчeт - этo иx иcкoнныe зeмли.
A вoт вcю Cибиpь… Дaжe и нe Знaю. Moнгoлaм, чтo ли? Чингизиды, Улyc Джyчи - вoт этo вce. Hy или иcкoнным cибиpcким нapoднocтям. Пycть caми, кopoчe, paзбиpaютcя. B любoм cлyчae, к pyccким этo yж coвepшeннo тoчнo никaкoгo oтнoшeния нe имeeт.
Hy, Caxaлин в Кypилaми - тyт вce пoнятнo.
A вoт Hoвгopoд Beликий жaлкo пoчти тaк жe, кaк и Уpaл. Ho ничeгo нe пoдeлaeшь - иcкoнныe бaлтo-финcкиe зeмли. Кoгo тaм былo бoльшe, бaлтoв или финнoв, нe пoмню, нo фaкт в тoм, чтo cлaвян тyт нe былo дo caмoгo Ивaнa Гpoзнoгo, кoтopый вcex нoвгopoдцeв и выpeзaл, и тoлькo пocлe этoгo зeмли зaceлили мocкoвитaми. Имeннo пoэтoмy Hoвгopoд вoeвaли вce, кoмy нe лeнь, нaчинaя oт Oлeгнa - чyжoй oн нaм. Чyжoй.
Кaк и Aльдeйгьюбopг, в кoтopый и пpишeл нeкий aвтopитeтный cкaндинaвcкий пaцaн Pюpик Tpyвop Cинeyc (мoжeт, иx и тpoe былo - чepт иx знaeт) co cвoeй бpaтвoй и гдe ceл пpaвить Pycью. Cкaндинaвия, дa. Cтapaя Лaдoгa ceйчac нaзывaeтcя.
Кapeлия, Питep - пoнятнo, вce тyдa жe.
Пcкoв - эcтaм.
Ho вo Mocквa…
Дa-дa, дpyзья мoи. Mocквa. Злaтoглaвaя cтoлицa нaшeй Poдины. Гaзмaнoв, Кoбзoн, звoнят кoлoкoлa, cтapик Бaтypин - вoт этo вce.
Tyт тoжe вce плoxo.
Пpидeтcя oтдaть.
Финнaм, aгa.
Гoлядь, мepя, мypoмa, мopдвa. Aйбицa, Чapтoнa, Ayзa. Кoлoмeнcкoe - дpeвнeйшee финo-yгopcкoe пoceлeниe. Дяькoвcкaя кyльтypa, жeлeзный вeк, пятьcoт лeт дo нaшeй эpы - иcкoннee нeкyдa. Hичeгo нe пoдeлaeшь.
И вoт знaeтe штo? Haчaв читaть этy вaшy вpaжecкyю иcтopию, я пoнял oднy пpocтyю вeщь.
Meдинcкий.
Дa-дa, Meдинcкий.
И никaк инaчe.
Hy eгo нa xyй этo вaшe вpaжecкoe oбpaзoвaниe.
Кpымнaш пaтaмyштa.
И тoчкa.

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egghead123
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August 18, 2014, 12:05:19 PM
 #64

If there is a world war 3 at least there will be no world war 4 because there will be nobody left to fight each other except a few cockroaches maybe.

What makes you think that? I don't understand the logic behind your post.

If ww3 was a nuclear war it is likely that nothing would be left only cockroaches.So there would be no ww4 because cockroaches dont have world wars afaik.
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August 18, 2014, 03:35:22 PM
 #65

ok just push that " Red Button " and end this misery ............


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Pagan (OP)
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August 18, 2014, 08:13:18 PM
 #66


NATO-Based Nuclear Weapons are an Advantage in a Dangerous World

By Brent Scowcroft, Stephen J. Hadley and Franklin Miller, Washington Post


NATO's decreasing number of sub-strategic nuclear weapons in Europe (graphic: NATO)

When NATO's leaders gather in Wales in early September, they will address several issues critical to the alliance , including Russian adventurism in Ukraine and elsewhere in Eastern Europe, members' contribution to collective defense, the adequacy of individual national defense budgets and plans for supporting the people of Afghanistan. In the course of their deliberations on these issues, however, they also should reaffirm the value to the alliance of the continued presence of the modest number of U.S. nuclear bombs in Europe. We believe this is necessary because we are again hearing calls for the United States to unilaterally withdraw its small arsenal of forward- deployed nuclear bombs. Those arguments are shopworn, familiar — and wrong. . . .

The newer members joined NATO in large part to get under this nuclear umbrella, and they have been vocal in expressing their concern that withdrawing the weapons would symbolize a diminution in the U.S. commitment to defend them. Their concerns are heightened as they watch a recidivist Russia conduct exercises simulating nuclear strikes on Poland and the Baltic states, threatening nuclear strikes on nascent NATO missile-defense sites and continuing to deploy a bloated arsenal of several thousand short-range nuclear weapons. . . .

With Russia continuing to support forces that are seeking to destabilize Ukraine and taking unsettling actions in both the Baltics and the Balkans, this is no time to destabilize the NATO alliance and traumatize our NATO allies by withdrawing our nuclear weapons from Europe.

Brent Scowcroft was national security advisor to Presidents Gerald Ford and George H.W. Bush. Stephen J. Hadley was national security adviser to President George W. Bush. Franklin Miller was responsible for U.S. nuclear policy in the Defense Department for Presidents George H.W. Bush and President Bill Clinton and on the National Security Council staff for President George W. Bush.

http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/nato-based-nuclear-weapons-are-an-advantage-in-a-dangerous-world


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August 19, 2014, 03:25:48 PM
 #67


Zapad-2013
A View From Helsinki


By Pauli Järvenpää

As is the case with military exercises in general, the Russian exercises are important because
they reveal where, against whom, and with what kinds of capabilities Russia is prepared to
use its military forces. So it was with Zapad-2013. Though the exercise scenario and the force
strengths submitted to the OSCE notification regime envisioned a penetration of terrorist
elements and units into Belarus, Zapad-2013?s territorial coverage, scope of operations, and
the number of units and force types involved strongly indicate that Russia was training its
forces for a large-scale conflict against a conventional enemy.
Beyond this general point it is also clear that the troop strength the Russian authorities
declared to the OSCE and the NATO-Russia Council was considerably below their real
strength. The actual number of troops in the exercise through its various phases seems to
have been 4-5 times as high as the number given in official Russian briefings. The exercise
was split into smaller parts, and these parts were connected to each other.
As to the nature of the operations conducted in Zapad-2013, while the official exercise
description talked about counter-terrorist operations, the Russian forces carried out typical
conventional military operations, including rapid reaction force operations, airborne perations,
tactical operations, and amphibious operations. Naval maneuvers and live missile
firings were carried out in the Baltic and Barents Seas, and, in a spectacular case, Iskander-M
missiles were fired from one shooting range to another. Nuclear forces were put on combat
readiness, and strategic bomber flights took place along the Finnish eastern border to their
live firing ranges in the Barents Sea. All of this strongly indicates that the Zapad-2013 exercise
went far beyond counter-terrorist operations.
Who, then, was depicted as an enemy in the Zapad-2013 exercise? From all available evidence it was
first and foremost the Baltic countries? troops backed by other NATO forces thrusting toward Belarus
and Kaliningrad. But quite intriguingly, Finnish troops were also depicted as attacking the Russian
positions on the Karelian Isthmus. This is particularly puzzling, since Finland has, over the past
two decades, time and again, stressed its military non-alignment, and the Finnish political leadership
has bent over backwards trying to make sure that the Finnish position was crystal clear: membership
in NATO for Finland is not in the cards.
Yet, in Russian military planning Finland does not seem to receive any special classification
for being militarily non-aligned. While visiting Helsinki in June 2012, General Nikolai
Makarov, then Chief of the Russian Defense Staff, chastised the Finns for carrying out their
own, strictly national military exercises in the vicinity of the Russian border. Furthermore, in
his opinion, NORDEFCO (Nordic Defense Cooperation) was considered a threat to Russia.
He also warned Finland, in tough turns of phrase, not to entertain thoughts of joining
NATO. So did Defense Minister Shoigu, when he visited Helsinki in May 2013. Both men
spiced up their warnings with the threat of dire consequences?strengthening of Russian
forces near the Finnish borders?should Finland not heed their advice. Minister Shoigu went
even as far as tying the possible Finnish membership in NATO to the modernization of
Russian sub-strategic nuclear weapons in the Western Military District. 28 All in all, it seems
that Finland now lives in the worst of all the possible worlds: Russia regards Finland as a
threat, yet Finland, being outside of NATO, is not covered by the North Atlantic Alliance?s
Article V security guarantee.
Beyond the military exercises, there has also been a surge of other Russian military activities
in the Baltic Sea area. The Swedish air force experienced a shock on Good Friday in 2013,
when two Russian bombers, escorted by four fighters, simulated an air attack on Swedish
territory, primarily on Gotland in the middle of the Baltic Sea. Around the same time, there
was a probe against Stockholm, and in that attack the Russian bombers apparently simulated
a nuclear attack against targets in the Stockholm area.
It might be, as two respected diplomats argue in a recent article, that the Russian operational
interests are in the south and their strategic interests in the east, but it is also true that
President Putin and his defense ministers have put special effort into developing Russian
military capabilities in the Western Military District. 30 What Zapad-2013 has amply
demonstrated is that there is growing sophistication in Russia?s military capabilities,
including the command, control and communications systems. In the ground forces, the
transformation to a combined-arms brigade structure is proceeding, albeit more slowly than
originally envisaged. Also, interoperability with other government power ministries is
improving in leaps and bounds.
In sum, the overall reform aimed at developing better-trained, better-equipped and better-led
smaller and more mobile forces is well under way in Russia. It is clear that the Russian forces
are steadily marching toward that goal. It is also obvious that the 500 billion euros planned
for the development of the military forces is producing results. It is a long-term work in
progress but, as Zapad-2013 demonstrated, that work is proceeding and is producing a new
military reality on the ground.

full article: http://www.jamestown.org/uploads/media/Zapad_2013_View_From_Helsinki_-_Full.pdf

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August 20, 2014, 09:27:15 AM
 #68

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/08/17/west-respect-truth-longer-exists-paul-craig-roberts/
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August 20, 2014, 10:44:10 AM
 #69

Anyone building a nuclear under ground bunker?

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August 20, 2014, 01:39:25 PM
 #70

World war 3 is already starting. its like waiting for a bomb to tick
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August 21, 2014, 10:53:07 PM
 #71


Former Defence Force chief: Russia not a military threat to Finland

Russia’s threshold for a military action against Finland is exceedingly high, says former head of the Finnish Defence Forces General Gustav Hägglund. However the retired army chief said that it’s important for Finland to understand that Russia is ready to use military force if it deems it necessary.
Speaking on Yle’s Aamu-tv breakfast programme Thursday morning, General Hägglund said that in his view while Russia is always ready to use force, Finland’s eastern neighbor hardly has plans to launch an attack against Finland, nor does it pose any current or acute threat.

“There are many more tempting targets. They were so badly beaten last time around in the Winter War and in the summer of 1944, that the threshold for attacking Finland is exceptionally high,” Hägglund said.

Instead the former defence chief said, Russia might seek to restore the kind of political leverage the Soviet Union possessed during the time of the Friendship, Cooperation and Mutual Assistance treaty that it signed with Finland in 1948.

Under the treaty the Soviet Union sought to deter attack from Western or Allied Powers through Finnish territory, while Finns sought to increase Finland's political independence from the Soviet Union.

Hägglund said that he believed that the Kremlin is satisfied with current Finnish-Russian relations because they are beneficial to Russia.

“Both countries’ economies complement each other. And this is a good example of how well Russia can get along with a neighbor,” Hägglund added.

Hägglund pointed out that Russia has many neighbours with whom it does not have good relations, some of which are Baltic countries.

http://yle.fi/uutiset/former_defence_force_chief_russia_not_a_military_threat_to_finland/7423824

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August 21, 2014, 11:15:56 PM
Last edit: August 21, 2014, 11:41:32 PM by Cortex7
 #72

My fellow human beings, all they want is war war war, and at the end all they say game well played and shake hands. Maybe you should all learn love. War = religion, money, power and suffering. Love = give your enemy a big hug and smile.

Try it!

I agree with your sentiment, I really do!

But alas peoples trust levels are low, and the trend is worsening, most are afraid that if they embrace in a hug then they may get robbed, mugged, contract ebola etc.

Not only that, but a utopian ideal is very fragile, it only takes one bad apple to spoil the whole barrel.

A true utopian society in my opinion could only be formed with the aid of technology: A POB (proof of body) P2P system, akin to the borg only without any heirachy. Secrets between nodes would not be possible and so only truth could flow. We would need to be cyborg of course (neural implant). Roll on the singularity when we might become cells of a much greater being.
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August 21, 2014, 11:35:27 PM
 #73

ok just push that " Red Button " and end this misery ............

Screw that, I'm planning on making a pot noodle in a couple of hours!
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August 22, 2014, 03:47:40 AM
 #74

WW3 will happen. But not anytime soon.
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August 22, 2014, 04:53:19 AM
 #75

If there is a world war 3 at least there will be no world war 4 because there will be nobody left to fight each other except a few cockroaches maybe.

What makes you think that? I don't understand the logic behind your post.

If ww3 was a nuclear war it is likely that nothing would be left only cockroaches.So there would be no ww4 because cockroaches dont have world wars afaik.
It is very unlikely that WW3 will be a nuclear war. Actually it is very unlikely that WW3 will actually happen because of nukes. The nuclear bomb has prevented any two countries with nuclear capabilities from going to war with each-other directly in what is now close to 70 years. WW2 started only a short decade after WW1 came to an end, but WW3 has still not started and the nuclear bomb was developed at the later part of WW2.
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August 22, 2014, 08:32:18 PM
 #76


Russia is ready to annex new territory



http://sevastopolnews.info/2014/08/lenta/politika/069226221/

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August 26, 2014, 02:46:13 PM
 #77


#russia is preparing for a large-scale "peacekeeping" operation



http://www.ng.ru/armies/2014-08-25/1_peacemakers.html

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August 26, 2014, 03:08:14 PM
 #78

This one would be a nuclear war or say the apocalypse said to be in 2012 postponed till world war III
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August 26, 2014, 04:43:37 PM
 #79

WWIII, if it happen, will not be fought by gun, bullet and nuke.

Trade and currency war are already on going, one could argue this is War on a global scale.
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August 26, 2014, 09:00:46 PM
 #80

WWIII, if it happen, will not be fought by gun, bullet and nuke.

Trade and currency war are already on going, one could argue this is War on a global scale.

If the currency wars were played out as an isolated game (no military involvement) then the US$ would end up losing its global reserve status, this is simply what would happen mathematically if the books were balanced, US$ would be pwned.

And this is the reason we should worry, physical actions will be used to protect the US$ global reserve status, as it always has been since US$ gained global reserve status and increasingly so since it went fiat.

I think the first dire acts will be biological warfare, news could then spin it as a natural event, can't do that with nukes.
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