Bitmaintech's Antminer S3+ vs. Spondoolies-Tech's SP30 / SP31 Yukon

[Master One]

With the current and projected rise in difficulty one clearly needs a higher hash rate at lower power consumption to stay profitable or reach a positive ROI at all. The train for starting small scale mining now may already have passed, most will tell it definitely has, especially if energy costs are an issue.

Despite the fact that the best price on energy I can get here is 0.11 EUR/kWh ~ 0.15 USD/kWh (excl. VAT, considering that I can let our company purchase and run the hardware) I am still considering to give it a try with a couple of the latest Antminer S3+ (my initial plan was to purchase 6 pieces and two EVGA1300 power supplies) or one SP30, both due to in September (20th September or earlier in case of the S3+, no date in September known for the SP30).

I know it seems ridiculous to pay for a SP30 in advance, and I previously did not consider this as a viable option, but now with Batch 7 of the S3 sold out and S3+ estimated at 20th September it's waiting either way. Although I have my concerns, Spondoolies-Tech is not considered to be a rip-off company, and hardware is actually being delivered (after all they got a rating of 85 by dogie).

You can play around with numbers forever and never get to a conclusion, I nevertheless gave it a try:

Device	#	S3+	#	S3+ (OC 250 MHz)	#	SP30
Power Efficiency	#	0.78 W/GH	#	0.80 W/GH	#	0.67 W/GH
Price Efficiency	#	0.85 $/GH	#	0.77 $/GH	#	0.93 W/GH

Profit Calculation S3+ (extrapolated to 4500 GH/s)



Profit Calculation S3+ overclocked to 250 MHz (extrapolated to 4500 GH/s)



Profit Calculation SP30



However you turn the coin, the SP30 wins, especially as it's unlikely that you get all S3+ to overclock to 250 MHz, and there is no better hardware in sight anytime soon.

Thoughts?

[s1gs3gv]

Hosting costs for the SP30 and/or the decreased performance on 110v ?


The S1 upgrades announced today look even better if you already have S1 machines and power supplies, but IMO neither the SP30, the S3, the S3+ or the S1 upgraded will ROI meaningfully.

The only people making money on these machines is Spondoolies and Bitmain.

[Master One]

Hosting costs for the SP30 and/or the decreased performance on 110v ?

I have taken a look at hosted solutions, but according to my calculations I'm better off with self-hosting despite the relatively high energy costs (but being able to omit VAT is my secret weapon here). I can not speak for the decreased performance on 110V.

[Tupsu]

ANTMINER S3 -B7 SOLD OUT

ANTMINER S3+ -B8   Speed:    453 GH/s     Price:  0.58 BTC

Bitmain now announce the S3+, which is a revised version of S3 running stably at 453GH/s (frequency=225 MHz), while consumes 355 Watt power at the wall. Most of miners will be able to run up to 500GH/s but not guaranteed.

AntMiner S3+ for sales shipping starts on September 20th or earlier

[s1gs3gv]

Hosting costs for the SP30 and/or the decreased performance on 110v ?

I have taken a look at hosted solutions, but according to my calculations I'm better off with self-hosting despite the relatively high energy costs (but being able to omit VAT is my secret weapon here). I can not speak for the decreased performance on 110V.

The SP30 is sub 4TH on 110.

[Master One]

My calculations above are already based on the new data for the S3+.

Since we have 240V here in Europe, calculating for 110V was not relevant for me.

[s1gs3gv]

My calculations above are already based on the new data for the S3+.

Since we have 240V here in Europe, calculating for 110V was not relevant for me.

Try running the numbers for the S1 upgrade for people who already have S1 machines and power supplies.
It beats all the other options.

The upgrade is .46BTC, performance the same as the S3+. OC potential to 500ghs.

This gives you a fixed cost of 4.6 BTC for  ~ 5TH

[Master One]

Try running the numbers for the S1 upgrade for people who already have S1 machines and power supplies. It beats all the other options. The upgrade is .46BTC, performance the same as the S3+. OC potential to 500ghs. The gives you a fixed cost of 4.6 BTC for 5TH

Of course it beats all the other options, but it does not help me due to the lack of previously purchased S1. If you are in the mood you can try at the Mining Dashboard | TradeBlock yourself. 

[CanaryInTheMine]

What am I missing? How does sp30 win any way you turn the coin?
Max profit for each of the 3 calculations is what?

Also, you are in fantasy land with 20% increase per month assumption.  You should use 35 as bare minimum and with next increases coming, it wouldn't surprise me to see a LARGE jump soon.

Why is this important? Because of salvage value.  How many people will want to buy your used s3 vs sp30?  You'll get a marginally higher resale price with s3, not sp30

[s1gs3gv]

The real question you might ask is why would anyone in their right mind spend over USD 3K in the hope of making a few hundred bucks after a year when there is so much uncertainty in the ROI equation.

The risk/reward ratio seriously discourages any mining by people who have to pay retail prices for equipment and electricity.

[CanaryInTheMine]

The real question you might ask is why would anyone in their right mind spend over USD 3K in the hope of making a few hundred bucks after a year when there is so much uncertainty in the ROI equation.

The risk/reward ratio seriously discourages any mining by people who have to pay retail prices for equipment and electricity.

That and friedcat has released the tube

[s1gs3gv]

being able to omit VAT is my secret weapon here

How is it you don't pay VAT ?

[MWNinja]

You ship

being able to omit VAT is my secret weapon here

How is it you don't pay VAT ?

Ship to a colocation facility outside the Eurozone; for example we have several European customers hosting S3's with us at $65/mo.

[s1gs3gv]

You ship

being able to omit VAT is my secret weapon here

How is it you don't pay VAT ?

Ship to a colocation facility outside the Eurozone; for example we have several European customers hosting S3's with us at $65/mo.

Right, so include hosting costs in the calculations for the SP30.

However, the OP suggested he was self hosting and not paying VAT.

[Master One]

What am I missing? How does sp30 win any way you turn the coin?Max profit for each of the 3 calculations is what?

Next to nothing, I know.  

Also, you are in fantasy land with 20% increase per month assumption.  You should use 35 as bare minimum and with next increases coming, it wouldn't surprise me to see a LARGE jump soon.

Difficult to tell what's going to happen, the recent spike made a lot of people pretty nervous. 20% increase per month and 0.1% on BTC value definitely don't match the reality, calculating with 35% will nothing ever reach a positive ROI at all.

Why is this important? Because of salvage value.  How many people will want to buy your used s3 vs sp30?  You'll get a marginally higher resale price with s3, not sp30

Agreed, the salvage value is not to be underestimated, and the SP30 will clearly loose here. Another matter to consider: It's way easier to put a bunch of S3+ on different power circuits than a single SP30 (our regular 240V circuits only have 13A breakers).

The real question you might ask is why would anyone in their right mind spend over USD 3K in the hope of making a few hundred bucks after a year when there is so much uncertainty in the ROI equation.The risk/reward ratio seriously discourages any mining by people who have to pay retail prices for equipment and electricity.

Good question, why would anyone want to invest in mining hardware from now on forward? OK, some are just stupid, others may think it's fun (is it?), and the kiddies think it does not matter with something like "free engery" (THERE IS NO FREE ENERGY) in mind.

How is it you don't pay VAT ?

Letting the company purchase and run the hardware (indeed works if you own the company ).

[SMB-2525]

Good question, why would anyone want to invest in mining hardware from now on forward? OK, some are just stupid, others may think it's fun (is it?), and the kiddies think it does not matter with something like "free energy" (THERE IS NO FREE ENERGY) in mind.

While I agree there is no "free" energy, there are a number of apartment complexes (not dormitories) where electricity is included in the rent. So while I consider the energy "free" from an ROI perspective, I still count it as part of my mining expenses from a tax perspective.

[CanaryInTheMine]

Good question, why would anyone want to invest in mining hardware from now on forward? OK, some are just stupid, others may think it's fun (is it?), and the kiddies think it does not matter with something like "free energy" (THERE IS NO FREE ENERGY) in mind.

While I agree there is no "free" energy, there are a number of apartment complexes (not dormitories) where electricity is included in the rent. So while I consider the energy "free" from an ROI perspective, I still count it as part of my mining expenses from a tax perspective.

and in most of these apartments, are you able to run the SP30?  I doubt there's a proper circuit and a sound-proof dedicated room

but, winter is coming... heating included!!

[bitdigger2013]

My calculations above are already based on the new data for the S3+.

Since we have 240V here in Europe, calculating for 110V was not relevant for me.

Try running the numbers for the S1 upgrade for people who already have S1 machines and power supplies.
It beats all the other options.

The upgrade is .46BTC, performance the same as the S3+. OC potential to 500ghs.

This gives you a fixed cost of 4.6 BTC for  ~ 5TH

I have not done the calculations but you seem to be missing the fact that if you order an S3+ you get 453GHS more for the .58 BTC with the Upgrade you pay .46btc but only get 253 GHS since your current S1 can already produce ~200GHS. There is no way that upgrade makes any sense at those prices.

[Master One]

I have not done the calculations but you seem to be missing the fact that if you order an S3+ you get 453GHS more for the .58 BTC with the Upgrade you pay .46btc but only get 253 GHS since your current S1 can already produce ~200GHS. There is no way that upgrade makes any sense at those prices.

Good point, and clearly a game changer for people considering that upgrade offer!

Not relevant for me though, I'm still sitting here without any miner at all (and the more time passes the more I'm disinclined to begin with; but well, for some reason baring any logic I'm still intrigued!).

[s1gs3gv]

My calculations above are already based on the new data for the S3+.

Since we have 240V here in Europe, calculating for 110V was not relevant for me.

Try running the numbers for the S1 upgrade for people who already have S1 machines and power supplies.
It beats all the other options.

The upgrade is .46BTC, performance the same as the S3+. OC potential to 500ghs.

This gives you a fixed cost of 4.6 BTC for  ~ 5TH

I have not done the calculations but you seem to be missing the fact that if you order an S3+ you get 453GHS more for the .58 BTC with the Upgrade you pay .46btc but only get 253 GHS since your current S1 can already produce ~200GHS. There is no way that upgrade makes any sense at those prices.

good point !