Bitmaintech's Antminer S3+ vs. Spondoolies-Tech's SP30 / SP31 Yukon

[Syke]

That's relevant to both the SP30 and the S3 equally.  The advantage still goes to the SP30 regardless of what the price of BTC does.

No, because Bitmain prices the S3 in BTC. Currently the S3 is significantly cheaper.

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[jonnybravo0311]

That's relevant to both the SP30 and the S3 equally.  The advantage still goes to the SP30 regardless of what the price of BTC does.

No, because Bitmain prices the S3 in BTC. Currently the S3 is significantly cheaper.

I agree that the 0.58BTC per unit price of the S3+ currently is cheaper, but it also works in reverse.  BTC shoots up to $800 a coin and it's not.  In any case, that's not relevant to hosting.  Hosting advantage goes to the SP30 - it's less rack space and less power consumption.

[grn]

Hosting
10 S3s, plus PSUs, lots of cabling, non-standard design
1 SP30, 1 network cable, 1 power cord, standard rack design

Advantage: SP30



For data center deployment, the SP30 is the flat out winner.  The standard rack design works very well with high-density cabinets.  There's only a single machine with a power cable and a network cable.  The data center only needs to worry about managing a single IP address and providing remote access to the web-based configuration interface and direct SSH access can be controlled easily.

With the current price of Bitcoin SP30s hosting requirement may now be considered a disadvantage. In less than 90 days it wont even be able to pay the hosting fee

That's relevant to both the SP30 and the S3 equally.  The advantage still goes to the SP30 regardless of what the price of BTC does.  The SP30 requires less space and less power in the hosted environment.

No, You are incorrect. Sp30 needs to be hosted for most people, s3 does not

[jonnybravo0311]

Hosting
10 S3s, plus PSUs, lots of cabling, non-standard design
1 SP30, 1 network cable, 1 power cord, standard rack design

Advantage: SP30



For data center deployment, the SP30 is the flat out winner.  The standard rack design works very well with high-density cabinets.  There's only a single machine with a power cable and a network cable.  The data center only needs to worry about managing a single IP address and providing remote access to the web-based configuration interface and direct SSH access can be controlled easily.

With the current price of Bitcoin SP30s hosting requirement may now be considered a disadvantage. In less than 90 days it wont even be able to pay the hosting fee

That's relevant to both the SP30 and the S3 equally.  The advantage still goes to the SP30 regardless of what the price of BTC does.  The SP30 requires less space and less power in the hosted environment.

No, You are incorrect. Sp30 needs to be hosted for most people, s3 does not

I am comparing the cost of hosting the SP30 to the cost of hosting the S3.  The SP30 is going to win because it is a single rack-mountable unit that needs less power than the S3s for the same hashing power.  I already gave the advantage to the S3 for home usage, precisely because I can spread the load around to different circuits, whereas the SP30 can only be put on 2 circuits at most.

[Syke]

Hosting advantage goes to the SP30 - it's less rack space and less power consumption.

Professional hosting is about $100/kw.

SP30: $300/mo
S3: $350/mo

So you need to run the SP30 for 20 months to make up for the price advantage of the S3. Good luck with that.

[jimmothy]

Hosting advantage goes to the SP30 - it's less rack space and less power consumption.

Professional hosting is about $100/kw.

SP30: $300/mo
S3: $350/mo

So you need to run the SP30 for 20 months to make up for the price advantage of the S3. Good luck with that.

10 s3's are now more than $1500 cheaper than an sp30 so it would be 30+ months.

[MichaelBliss]

I've learned the hard way: With pre-orders you have to factor in the possibility that your miner a) won't come at all b) won't arrive on time c) won't be on spec.   That has to be factored into your profitability calculations.  Also the farther out the delivery date, the more your having to estimate the difficulty rate, and the less accurate your results.   

[jonnybravo0311]

Hosting advantage goes to the SP30 - it's less rack space and less power consumption.

Professional hosting is about $100/kw.

SP30: $300/mo
S3: $350/mo

So you need to run the SP30 for 20 months to make up for the price advantage of the S3. Good luck with that.

10 s3's are now more than $1500 cheaper than an sp30 so it would be 30+ months.

If we're talking about right now, this very moment, then the S3 is infinitely cheaper than the SP30, since you can't even order an SP30.  Obviously at this point the advantage is to the S3 for everything.

The SP30 is a standard rack-mountable design with included PSUs.  Throw it in a rack, plug the two power cables into the PDU and the network cable into the switch.  Done.  You get charged standard $100/kw rates.  The S3 requires external PSU.  It won't fit into a standard rack, so requires shelves of some sort.

If I walk into a data center with an SP30 and say I need space for this, it's going to use about 3kw, they're going to say no problem.  I walk into that same data center with a bunch of S3s and say I need space, they're going to look at me funny.  Then they're going to charge me for custom space and setup fees and whatever else they want to handle my non-standard servers.

My point in all of this is that from a purely hosting standpoint the SP30 is going to win.  It's a single unit.  It's a standard rack size.  It's easy for the data center to deal with.  I already gave the S3 the price advantage for up front costs.  I did not amortize savings across the board, as that wasn't my intent with the comparison.  I considered each bolded section individually, and gave the advantage to whichever unit deserved it for that section.

Full disclosure: I own S3s.  I also owned an SP10 that I sold recently and replaced with S3s.  I've owned an S2 and S1s and U2s.  I do not own an SP30 because the unit came in far under the promised specs at a higher power usage than what the initial specs claimed.

[jimmothy]

If I walk into a data center with an SP30 and say I need space for this, it's going to use about 3kw, they're going to say no problem.  I walk into that same data center with a bunch of S3s and say I need space, they're going to look at me funny.  Then they're going to charge me for custom space and setup fees and whatever else they want to handle my non-standard servers.

Why would you go to a non-bitcoin-mining oriented and ask for space? The very few datacenters that charge you for space also charge $0.2/kwh or more.

And even if they do charge you for space, those ancient DCs are only capable of cooling 10-20kw per cabinet so you won't be charged 2u per sp30.

My point in all of this is that from a purely hosting standpoint the SP30 is going to win.  It's a single unit.  It's a standard rack size.  It's easy for the data center to deal with.  I already gave the S3 the price advantage for up front costs.  I did not amortize savings across the board, as that wasn't my intent with the comparison.  I considered each bolded section individually, and gave the advantage to whichever unit deserved it for that section.

Yes, I think we all agree that sp30 is more efficient and more dense. It is also one of the best looking asics and comes with possibly the best customer support available.

But all that is pointless if it takes 30 months to pay off.

[Master One]

For me the question never was about self-hosting vs. data center hosting. I want to buy the mining hardware and have it here at my location.

The S3+ is cheaper then the SP30 (currently a lot cheaper, calculated to equal hashing power), the SP30 has a lower power consumption, but that only matters in the very long run. Right now nothing speaks for the SP30, especially when considering the resale value.

[Master One]

With the SP31 already being announced destined to be shipped in the second half of October some more current calculations:

Device	#	S3+	#	S3+ (OC 250 MHz)	#	SP31
Power Efficiency	#	0.78 W/GH	#	0.80 W/GH	#	0.55 W/GH
Price Efficiency	#	0.83 $/GH	#	0.75 $/GH	#	0.77 $/GH

Profit Calculation SP30



No idea where this is leading to. 

[wpgdeez]

The game is over unless you like loosing money.

[crocko]

You can mine and have profit only 1)if you have free electricity or 2) the BTC price will raise more than $1000

[philipma1957]

 in hand I would take  1 sp30  4.5 th over 10 s-3's in hand.

my conditions are :


 walk it into my house set it up for me and I fork over enough 100 dollar bills to pay you.

I live close enough to lakewood nj to do the deal.

but for now I do not want either I am not buying much right now.

[seriouscoin]

The game is over unless you like loosing money.

Or you can just buy btc and use it either as currency or store of value

I'm tired of all the dumbasses got suck into bitcoin (usually they heard about it on mainstream media) and think,- " i want to PRINT MONEY!!!!!"

Most of these fcktards are all about "making money" without ever knowing BTC IS MONEY.

For example,

This is where I'm coming from...

Once I can no longer profit from mining, I'm done with BTC. I'm simply not an investment speculator. And I see no real advantages with buying BTC on an exchange and using it to make purchases. I'd rather just use a credit card and have consumer protection.

I'm not a libertarian and bank failures and politics scare me less than BTC potentially dropping to zero.

In my opinion, the extinction of home miners will ultimately cause the failure of BTC. Home miners actually use their BTC stash as it's intended, to make purchases. Although they just usually spend their saved BTC on new mining gear, lol. They also hoard their earnings while large-scale mining operations continually dump their BTC and exchange for fiat. Which will ultimately causes the price to crash once home miners are completely out of the picture.

[Mesterlovesz74]

You can mine and have profit only 1)if you have free electricity or 2) the BTC price will raise more than $1000

It seems that you are only noob miners with no experience at all in the altcoin world. If you can only think in Bitcoin terms then you better forget to buy ANY mining equipment, this game is experts only!

Mining bitcoin is fruitless, that ship is saled around a year ago! Forever, it will never come back!

If you are thinking of buying a low cost SHA-256 mining gear, then you are an expert altcoin miner or a total lunatic.

I am mining altcoins for  more then 8 months now, so I can tell you that if you want to ROI your gear you have to be an expert in altcoin mining, you have to have enough time (6-8 hours a day) to check new altcoins and mine them from the begining. If you are not capable of doing that, then just buy bitcoin from an ATM or from any exchange around. That is much much more profitable for you.

[jimmothy]

You can mine and have profit only 1)if you have free electricity or 2) the BTC price will raise more than $1000

It seems that you are only noob miners with no experience at all in the altcoin world. If you can only think in Bitcoin terms then you better forget to buy ANY mining equipment, this game is experts only!

Mining bitcoin is fruitless, that ship is saled around a year ago! Forever, it will never come back!

Have you been living under a rock? People have been able to turn a profit mining bitcoins with hardware bought only a few months ago.

If you are thinking of buying a low cost SHA-256 mining gear, then you are an expert altcoin miner or a total lunatic.

I am mining altcoins for  more then 8 months now, so I can tell you that if you want to ROI your gear you have to be an expert in altcoin mining, you have to have enough time (6-8 hours a day) to check new altcoins and mine them from the begining. If you are not capable of doing that, then just buy bitcoin from an ATM or from any exchange around. That is much much more profitable for you.

Or you could just not waste your time gambling on shitcoins and just mine bitcoins like everyone else.

In the past few months the number of shitcoins has more than quadrupled, meanwhile the market cap (in usd) of all altcoins combined has more than halved.

If you want to gamble, just go to a casino where you will have better odds and higher rewards without having to sift through the cesspool which is the altcoin forums.

[Master One]

Well, as I've written in the S3 support thread, I have come to the conclusion that I really have to write off the idea to start mining with either a bunch of S3+ or two SP31, as it's just not worth it.

Even when calculating energy costs with only 0.0921 $/kWh (which is an unrealistic value for me here, that I could only achieve with a little trickery) and a difficulty increase of just 20% per month they are not going to reach a positive ROI or turn negative just when reaching. And yes, it's not only about reaching a positive ROI, but to make a profit as well.

We have to face it, with a total network speed of more than 200 PH/s at the current difficulty, increasing with such rates the 28nm ASIC technology has to be considered as obsolete, as it's just not possible to squeeze it at less then 0.5455 W/GH (at the wall; that value is for the SP31). Energy is not going to get cheaper neither, so we really need new hardware.

The hardware manufacturers currently are not able to keep up with the increasing difficulty, and without a miracle it pretty much means the end of private mining. This may seem pessimistic and there may be new opportunities with tech <20nm but it really depends on the manufacturers' strategies, because if it stays the norm to keep customers waiting while mining the hell out of new units themselves till difficulty kills the opportunity for the customer to reach a positive ROI again, nothing is going to change.

I really was that close to hit the order button on two SP31, but now I'm just going to watch the BTC value, buy a few BTC for hodling when it feels right, and wait for new hardware to be announced (which most likely is not going to happen this year).

Good luck to you all, especially to those who are as late to the game as I am and didn't do the math.

[Mesterlovesz74]

You can mine and have profit only 1)if you have free electricity or 2) the BTC price will raise more than $1000

It seems that you are only noob miners with no experience at all in the altcoin world. If you can only think in Bitcoin terms then you better forget to buy ANY mining equipment, this game is experts only!

Mining bitcoin is fruitless, that ship is saled around a year ago! Forever, it will never come back!

Have you been living under a rock? People have been able to turn a profit mining bitcoins with hardware bought only a few months ago.

If you are thinking of buying a low cost SHA-256 mining gear, then you are an expert altcoin miner or a total lunatic.

I am mining altcoins for  more then 8 months now, so I can tell you that if you want to ROI your gear you have to be an expert in altcoin mining, you have to have enough time (6-8 hours a day) to check new altcoins and mine them from the begining. If you are not capable of doing that, then just buy bitcoin from an ATM or from any exchange around. That is much much more profitable for you.

Or you could just not waste your time gambling on shitcoins and just mine bitcoins like everyone else.

In the past few months the number of shitcoins has more than quadrupled, meanwhile the market cap (in usd) of all altcoins combined has more than halved.

If you want to gamble, just go to a casino where you will have better odds and higher rewards without having to sift through the cesspool which is the altcoin forums.

As I said I am mining altcoins since january, so I know that without investning 10-100k USD into BTC mining it is impossible to get a decent profit from it! It is not for home miners any more!
I just ordered a few Antminer S3+ and I will be ROI with them around 1-1,5 months, then I will gain profit! I never mine BTC only altcoins and my mining style and hard work give me excelent rewards!

Mining altcoins is not a gamble it is only if you do not know the market or what to look for when you check the new coins! There is a way to avoid scams! I have the knowledge and the experience to do that successfully, for the rest, you should buy BTC directly before the next boom in price! It is nearer then you think!

[manu92]

Master One, I really appreciate your thinking and your attitude of detachment. It is rare to see people as objective in their strategical choices and not blinded by the greed.

I am looking too for a strategy to live from mining. For now, unfortunately I came to same conclusion as you.

However, here are some things I am trying to explore to improve the profitability of an investment in mining:

• Go through a company to benefit from favorable prices for electricity (0.04 to 0.09 EUR / kWh) and for the deduction of certain expenses.
• The antminer and PSU(EVGA) can be resold after 2-3 months of use which can recover a portion of the capital invested.
• Start large (60 to 120 antminers) so you can mine solo and so you can negotiate prices with bitmain (I do not know if that's possible !)
• stay in the starting block for the next generation of antminers.
  

What do you think?