Account Hacked Help Plz!

[Domino]

So it ends as a lose-lose situation. bayuo doesn't get the account back, while the current owner of the zedicus account is blamed and becomes inactive.

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[zedicus]

I'm still here. Just no progress was being made so I can't be bothered logging in. I just want a refund from quicksellers. Any suggestions on what to do?

[greatwolf_]

One thing for sure.. a couple people have been dead on the mark and their perspective lets me know that im not going crazy and that i am getting through to not only the mods but everyone reading this thread too!  
 
I was re-reading this thread and it seems $username has been calling it how he sees it the whole time! He has been money and i will use him and another member as an example to show that im not coming out of left field when i say there is a huge flaw in the forum and i have been taken advantage of because of it.

There is no 2factor, no email verification when a users email is changed .. nothing. That in combination with the allowing of accounts to be bought and sold (WITHOUT A SIGNED MSG FROM PREVIOUS OWNER) i believe creates and environment perfect for the manipulation of the flaw.

Just posting here to let you know I'm in a similar boat so this is no means an isolated case. My account got hacked which could have been prevented had email confirmation been enabled on this forum to begin with. The only difference is no one has stepped up to dispute my claim to my account yet. Unfortunately, I haven't received so much as a peep from theymos and I've been sending him weekly PM's since Sept. in the required signed format outlined.

Frankly, I don't understand how a forum so lax in security can be used to conduct any serious business or money related matters -- this is just ludicrous. Your forum password is the only line of defense and should that be compromised -- whether your fault or not -- then it's basically game over. There's no other recourse then to keep PM'ing forum admin until they respond.

If it were up to me, this is clearly an open-and-shut case: you provided a signed message proving ownship of said account -- the current person in control of your account cannot provide a signed message proving he bought the account legitimately. Ergo, account access should be restored back to you.

[Willisius]

One thing for sure.. a couple people have been dead on the mark and their perspective lets me know that im not going crazy and that i am getting through to not only the mods but everyone reading this thread too!  
 
I was re-reading this thread and it seems $username has been calling it how he sees it the whole time! He has been money and i will use him and another member as an example to show that im not coming out of left field when i say there is a huge flaw in the forum and i have been taken advantage of because of it.

There is no 2factor, no email verification when a users email is changed .. nothing. That in combination with the allowing of accounts to be bought and sold (WITHOUT A SIGNED MSG FROM PREVIOUS OWNER) i believe creates and environment perfect for the manipulation of the flaw.

Just posting here to let you know I'm in a similar boat so this is no means an isolated case. My account got hacked which could have been prevented had email confirmation been enabled on this forum to begin with. The only difference is no one has stepped up to dispute my claim to my account yet. Unfortunately, I haven't received so much as a peep from theymos and I've been sending him weekly PM's since Sept. in the required signed format outlined.

Frankly, I don't understand how a forum so lax in security can be used to conduct any serious business or money related matters -- this is just ludicrous. Your forum password is the only line of defense and should that be compromised -- whether your fault or not -- then it's basically game over. There's no other recourse then to keep PM'ing forum admin until they respond.

If it were up to me, this is clearly an open-and-shut case: byou provided a signed message proving ownship of said account -- the current person in control of your account cannot provide a signed message proving he bought the account legitimately. Ergo, account access should be restored back to you.

There are several problems with this.

First it would make it extremely easy to scam account buyers who do not think to ask for a signed message and would make any buyer vulnerable to having their account taken back in the event they lose such signed message. It overwhelmingly appears that the OP is almost certainly trying to scam the person that he sold his account to. The OP proved his account ownership by signing a message contained in an other person's post (but not his own) so anyone buying his account would likely not be able to easily find such address to request such signed message.

You need to remember that the person who is in control of the account at one point somehow controlled the password so the burden should be on the person claiming ownership not on the person who controls the account presently. Being as liberal as you are suggesting for account recoveries would encourage both the kind of scamming that the OP is attempting and would encourage people to be reckless with their account passwords. If you are reckless with your private key then the miners are not going to reverse a transaction back to an address that you control. There is no reason why forum accounts should be significantly different.

As I mentioned above, theymos has said that most accounts are "hacked" due to user error; if the administrators were to be as liberal with account recoveries as you are suggesting then theymos would be overwhelmed with requests for account recoveries and this would take his time away for more important work.

[peligro]

First it would make it extremely easy to scam account buyers who do not think to ask for a signed message and would make any buyer vulnerable to having their account taken back in the event they lose such signed message.

Good, let them be scammed. The only reason account trading is allowed is because they can't be stopped. If the rules favour original owners then account trading will reduce drastically.

Go to the Digital Goods section, you will find a few newbie sellers selling a lot of accounts. Why are they hiding? Simple as they know they can sell and leave leaving the buyer stranded. If the accounts are reset to original owners then the buyers will go away.

[greatwolf_]

First it would make it extremely easy to scam account buyers who do not think to ask for a signed message and would make any buyer vulnerable to having their account taken back in the event they lose such signed message. It overwhelmingly appears that the OP is almost certainly trying to scam the person that he sold his account to. The OP proved his account ownership by signing a message contained in an other person's post (but not his own) so anyone buying his account would likely not be able to easily find such address to request such signed message.

You're chalking up account buyers as morons that don't know what they're doing. If someone's buying a BCT account, they're likely not a newbie to the community. Even if they did not think to ask for such proof, that can easily be solved with a public service announcement. If the buyer still chooses to go forward with the account purchase without some kind of signed message as a receipt, then it is their risk to take.

You need to remember that the person who is in control of the account at one point somehow controlled the password so the burden should be on the person claiming ownership not on the person who controls the account presently.

And what kind of proof would the OP have to present to satisfy that burden? What would it look like? What form would it take?

... if the administrators were to be as liberal with account recoveries as you are suggesting then theymos would be overwhelmed with requests for account recoveries and this would take his time away for more important work.

Of course, that is just your hypothesis. My guess is that with a more clearly well-defined recovery procedure it would allow theymos to restore more accounts back to their legitimate owners. Of course there's no way to know for sure without trying. And why favor account buyers at all? Theymos himself said he doesn't condone the activity anyway so worrying about account buyers getting scammed is a moot point.

Couple this with email confirmation on changes to vital account detail, like you read from my other post, that will cull out the majority of the account request to start with.

[Willisius]

First it would make it extremely easy to scam account buyers who do not think to ask for a signed message and would make any buyer vulnerable to having their account taken back in the event they lose such signed message. It overwhelmingly appears that the OP is almost certainly trying to scam the person that he sold his account to. The OP proved his account ownership by signing a message contained in an other person's post (but not his own) so anyone buying his account would likely not be able to easily find such address to request such signed message.

You're chalking up account buyers as morons that don't know what they're doing. If someone's buying a BCT account, they're likely not a newbie to the community. Even if they did not think to ask for such proof, that can easily be solved with a public service announcement. If the buyer still chooses to go forward with the account purchase without some kind of signed message as a receipt, then it is their risk to take.

I would say many buyers are new to the community/to bitcoin and want to buy their way into features of higher level accounts. This is why you will often see senior and hero accounts asking newbie questions.

Just because you don't have the receipt for something does not mean that what you have in your possession is stolen. All that it means is that you do not have documentation of the transaction.

You need to remember that the person who is in control of the account at one point somehow controlled the password so the burden should be on the person claiming ownership not on the person who controls the account presently.

And what kind of proof would the OP have to present to satisfy that burden? What would it look like? What form would it take?

I am not sure. Most likely nothing. It has been said before that the majority of the time, the reason an account is hacked is because the owner was being careless (this is not something you addressed) so I don't see any reason why carelessness should be rewarded. Any criteria that is set in stone would be exploitable by potential scammers.

IMO the only time it would be appropriate to reset a password is in the case of forgotten passwords when the account in question has not been logged into recently and it is apparent that no one has control of the account.

... if the administrators were to be as liberal with account recoveries as you are suggesting then theymos would be overwhelmed with requests for account recoveries and this would take his time away for more important work.

Of course, that is just your hypothesis. My guess is that with a more clearly well-defined recovery procedure it would allow theymos to restore more accounts back to their legitimate owners. Of course there's no way to know for sure without trying. And why favor account buyers at all? Theymos himself said he doesn't condone the activity anyway so worrying about account buyers getting scammed is a moot point.

The forum does not look highly upon scammers, they only do not moderate scams. There have been a few examples where the mods have outed the alts of scammers after it has been proven they have scammed. The current policy favors the person who is in control of the account. The fact they are in control of the account means that they somehow gained access to the password at one point. If the forum were to be as liberal about giving access back to old owners then it would be enabling scams.

Couple this with email confirmation on changes to vital account detail, like you read from my other post, that will cull out the majority of the account request to start with.

Email confirmation will not work as the forum does not require email confirmation therefore it is not certain that the email the forum has is a real email address and if it is not it would be impossible to change your password in the event it is compromised and people would be able to scam in your name if your password is compromised.

[bayuo]

One thing for sure.. a couple people have been dead on the mark and their perspective lets me know that im not going crazy and that i am getting through to not only the mods but everyone reading this thread too! 
 
I was re-reading this thread and it seems $username has been calling it how he sees it the whole time! He has been money and i will use him and another member as an example to show that im not coming out of left field when i say there is a huge flaw in the forum and i have been taken advantage of because of it.

There is no 2factor, no email verification when a users email is changed .. nothing. That in combination with the allowing of accounts to be bought and sold (WITHOUT A SIGNED MSG FROM PREVIOUS OWNER) i believe creates and environment perfect for the manipulation of the flaw.

Just posting here to let you know I'm in a similar boat so this is no means an isolated case. My account got hacked which could have been prevented had email confirmation been enabled on this forum to begin with. The only difference is no one has stepped up to dispute my claim to my account yet. Unfortunately, I haven't received so much as a peep from theymos and I've been sending him weekly PM's since Sept. in the required signed format outlined.

Frankly, I don't understand how a forum so lax in security can be used to conduct any serious business or money related matters -- this is just ludicrous. Your forum password is the only line of defense and should that be compromised -- whether your fault or not -- then it's basically game over. There's no other recourse then to keep PM'ing forum admin until they respond.

If it were up to me, this is clearly an open-and-shut case: you provided a signed message proving ownship of said account -- the current person in control of your account cannot provide a signed message proving he bought the account legitimately. Ergo, account access should be restored back to you.

Sorry to hear about your expierience man, that sucks. Thats the part that pisses me off too. For some reason from our viewpoint its crystal clear a simple email confirmation could have prevented the whole thing. Im a lil tired of spelling it out eli5 style for people like Willisius so i wont even bother.

[peligro]

One thing for sure.. a couple people have been dead on the mark and their perspective lets me know that im not going crazy and that i am getting through to not only the mods but everyone reading this thread too!  
 
I was re-reading this thread and it seems $username has been calling it how he sees it the whole time! He has been money and i will use him and another member as an example to show that im not coming out of left field when i say there is a huge flaw in the forum and i have been taken advantage of because of it.

There is no 2factor, no email verification when a users email is changed .. nothing. That in combination with the allowing of accounts to be bought and sold (WITHOUT A SIGNED MSG FROM PREVIOUS OWNER) i believe creates and environment perfect for the manipulation of the flaw.

Just posting here to let you know I'm in a similar boat so this is no means an isolated case. My account got hacked which could have been prevented had email confirmation been enabled on this forum to begin with. The only difference is no one has stepped up to dispute my claim to my account yet. Unfortunately, I haven't received so much as a peep from theymos and I've been sending him weekly PM's since Sept. in the required signed format outlined.

Frankly, I don't understand how a forum so lax in security can be used to conduct any serious business or money related matters -- this is just ludicrous. Your forum password is the only line of defense and should that be compromised -- whether your fault or not -- then it's basically game over. There's no other recourse then to keep PM'ing forum admin until they respond.

If it were up to me, this is clearly an open-and-shut case: you provided a signed message proving ownship of said account -- the current person in control of your account cannot provide a signed message proving he bought the account legitimately. Ergo, account access should be restored back to you.

Sorry to hear about your expierience man, that sucks. Thats the part that pisses me off too. For some reason from our viewpoint its crystal clear a simple email confirmation could have prevented the whole thing. Im a lil tired of spelling it out eli5 style for people like Willisius so i wont even bother.

At the least in your case you brought him down with you. The zedicus account is abandoned now. Last time he was threatening to expose accounts but have quietened but thats it.

[bayuo]

One thing for sure.. a couple people have been dead on the mark and their perspective lets me know that im not going crazy and that i am getting through to not only the mods but everyone reading this thread too!  
 
I was re-reading this thread and it seems $username has been calling it how he sees it the whole time! He has been money and i will use him and another member as an example to show that im not coming out of left field when i say there is a huge flaw in the forum and i have been taken advantage of because of it.

There is no 2factor, no email verification when a users email is changed .. nothing. That in combination with the allowing of accounts to be bought and sold (WITHOUT A SIGNED MSG FROM PREVIOUS OWNER) i believe creates and environment perfect for the manipulation of the flaw.

Just posting here to let you know I'm in a similar boat so this is no means an isolated case. My account got hacked which could have been prevented had email confirmation been enabled on this forum to begin with. The only difference is no one has stepped up to dispute my claim to my account yet. Unfortunately, I haven't received so much as a peep from theymos and I've been sending him weekly PM's since Sept. in the required signed format outlined.

Frankly, I don't understand how a forum so lax in security can be used to conduct any serious business or money related matters -- this is just ludicrous. Your forum password is the only line of defense and should that be compromised -- whether your fault or not -- then it's basically game over. There's no other recourse then to keep PM'ing forum admin until they respond.

If it were up to me, this is clearly an open-and-shut case: you provided a signed message proving ownship of said account -- the current person in control of your account cannot provide a signed message proving he bought the account legitimately. Ergo, account access should be restored back to you.

Sorry to hear about your experience man, that sucks. Thats the part that pisses me off too. For some reason from our viewpoint its crystal clear a simple email confirmation could have prevented the whole thing. Im a lil tired of spelling it out eli5 style for people like Willisius so i wont even bother.

At the least in your case you brought him down with you. The zedicus account is abandoned now. Last time he was threatening to expose accounts but have quietened but thats it.

Him threatening to expose Quicksellers accounts was a farce.. The person controlling the Zedicus account is Quickseller. They are one in the same person or they are working in cahoots with one another hence the initial public threat with nane follow through.   

 


 

[zedicus]

Bayuo and Quickseller can sort this out. I don't want to be involved and I want my money back.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=884261

[gkv9]

Bayuo and Quickseller can sort this out. I don't want to be involved and I want my money back.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=884261

Will you give the ownership of your account back to Bayuo if you get a refund from Quickseller? Also, if he agrees to give you a refund, I would advice you to go through an escrow to make it publicly visible that everything's going under a genuine way...

[zedicus]

Bayuo and Quickseller can sort this out. I don't want to be involved and I want my money back.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=884261

Will you give the ownership of your account back to Bayuo if you get a refund from Quickseller? Also, if he agrees to give you a refund, I would advice you to go through an escrow to make it publicly visible that everything's going under a genuine way...

If I get a refund, it will be in Quickseller's possession. It will be up to him. And I will definitely use escrow.

[Quickseller]

Bayuo and Quickseller can sort this out. I don't want to be involved and I want my money back.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=884261

Will you give the ownership of your account back to Bayuo if you get a refund from Quickseller? Also, if he agrees to give you a refund, I would advice you to go through an escrow to make it publicly visible that everything's going under a genuine way...

If I get a refund, it will be in Quickseller's possession. It will be up to him. And I will definitely use escrow.

I am not sure why you are trying to label me as such a scammer. If I was going to scam you then I would not have given you anything after you sent me 1.1 BTC for your account without escrow (assuming you are the same person that purchased the account from me).

You appear to be making good on your threat on trying to ruin my business if I did not pay you 1.1 BTC that you are not due.

[bayuo]

Bayuo and Quickseller can sort this out. I don't want to be involved and I want my money back.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=884261

Before i even look at that thread just answer me this one question?

On aug 20 i asked quickseller to prove he was in control of my account .. I then got a PM from YOU via my Zedicus account asking me to pm you via the Quickseller account!  Why would you do that? Clearly it has lead me to believe you and Quickseller are in cahoots or one in the same person! Why would you do that??  



Before you answer, the first post you made in this thread was a lie! You claimed it was a new low for scammers and someone was trying to steal your account! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=741302.msg8376811#msg8376811


Then after 23 days of lying you suddenly changed your tune and Tomoatoecage called you out on it!! ( Tomatoecage replied "thanks for letting us know the account was purchased")
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=741302.msg8734620#msg8734620




Then you lied about being the victim when clearly you actually had the conversation with Quickseller regarding the validity of the account he claimed was his without a signed msg from the original owner! --> ME
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=741302.msg8887615#msg8887615


If he promised you it was all good and there was nothing to worry about ...you definitely had that talk. You asked him for proof of ownership and with nothing but an empty promise in lieu of a signed msg you agreed to purchase the account. ( You had a choice )


Why would you lie. Instead of claiming i was a scammer, why wasnt your first post in this thread a simple statement saying you purchased the account from Quickseller? Why Lie?

Why when i asked Quickseller to prove he was in control of my account .. YOU replied in pm via the Zedicus account asking me to pm you via Quickseller?

Why would you do that? If it was you wouldnt that lead you to believe you were dealing with the same person?

Why would you do that?

Now im supposed to go read this thread you started where you are claiming victim??

Explain why YOU lied! Explain why you replied in PM when i asked Quickseller to prove he was in control of my account. You replied and asked me to pm you via the Quickseller account!



There are plenty of honest and stand up people at bitcointalk  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=581411.80


I dont think you are one of those people .. not even remotely!! But lets just say for the sake of argument that you were genuinely ripped off by Quickseller (ignoring the fact that you actually knew the account was stolen)

 why would you lie!? You have been lying since the first post you made in this thread! Why lie!?  

Bayuo and Quickseller can sort this out. I don't want to be involved and I want my money back.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=884261

Will you give the ownership of your account back to Bayuo if you get a refund from Quickseller? Also, if he agrees to give you a refund, I would advice you to go through an escrow to make it publicly visible that everything's going under a genuine way...

If I get a refund, it will be in Quickseller's possession. It will be up to him. And I will definitely use escrow.

Clearly im being sarcastic ..but lets say you were victimized by Quickseller and you "now" realize he lied about being the account owner or he lied about having obtained the account legitimately when he sold you the account.


You are saying that if he gave you a refund you would return the account to him! "the guy who ripped you off "?.. The guy who stole the account of another hero member here at bitcointalk!? You would return the stolen account to the thief when the original owner has been in front of your face the whole time screaming about being victimized by Quickseller?



My god..  What am i missing here!


---


Its like Quickseller pulls up in a car with a screwdriver in the ignition and you buy it from him.. Then you come back months later to say you got ripped off and you want your money back because well you know, the screwdriver... and if you get your money back you want to give him back the stolen car tho the owner of the car is your neighbor and a member of your community.

Im not picaso but thats what the picture looks like to me.


 
Expect me in your thread sooner then later.. i gotta get back to work so i may not chime in today but ... If you care to elaborate on why you chose to lie and why when i asked Quickseller to prove he was in control of my account YOU replied via pm using the Zedicus account asking me to pm you via Quickseller!!!!??

 
 
 

[zetaray]

Quickseller should just refund the account buyer using escrow and the new owner should give the account back to original owner. Then all parties would be happy.

[Muhammed Zakir]

Quickseller should just refund the account buyer using escrow and the new owner should give the account back to original owner. Then all parties would be happy.

I think the real owner will have to pay Quickseller to make the trade.

   ~~MZ~~

[Quickseller]

Quickseller should just refund the account buyer using escrow and the new owner should give the account back to original owner. Then all parties would be happy.

I think the original owner will have to pay Quickseller to make the trade.

   ~~MZ~~

FIFY

I think that is more realistic then to expect me to pay the new owner of zedicus so a scammer can have his account that he sold me back. Either way whatever happens is between the person who now owns zedicus and bayuo, if they want to make a deal they can do so themselves (hopefully involving escrow). I plan on staying out of it

[bitboy11]

Wow!!!
This was a very interesting read.

[Stellaartois]

Very interesting read was this ever resolved