[GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond

[DILLIGAF]

Well you can chop it in half to reflect the fact that those 50gh/s you are bonding is actually included in that bond not the full purchase price of the 100gh/s you are getting for those BTC you raise with this.

That analysis is too simplistic. Can you do some real math and come back with a more reasonable suggestion?

Original idea 10,000 shares at 1.2 BTC equals 12,000 BTC  at this moment in time ~$55,000 4x BFL min-rigs equals ~60,000 or $5,000 cost to him for the two mini-rigs he gains through this bond if BTC goes over $5 you actually pay him to have bought these not just the gain of the rigs. So if that math is not simple enough for you then I don't particularly care just be informed as to what is going on he makes essentially two free mini-rigs by doing this if your all happy with that purchase away. Oh he says he is setting up mining company a couple of times now and as I have already pointed out all of them I have seen include all the equipment and BTC earned from that equipment in their calculations for the BTC put up to start it. Now I would imagine he will quibble over this saying it is bond well if it is that then continue to refer to it as such.

Well you can chop it in half to reflect the fact that those 50gh/s you are bonding is actually included in that bond not the full purchase price of the 100gh/s you are getting for those BTC you raise with this. Oh and the hardware mentioned that you intend to use for this bond is here.

I have decided to disclose all of my hashing power so that investors can know that I am capable of fulfilling the bond payments even if equipment was to fail. It also states in bold that the 10k coupons equate to 50Gh.

Good enough as I have said now people know the rest they can buy if they wish too I don't care one way or the other just pointing out the math of it as they seem to be fond of and the confusing terms you have used it is either bond or mining company can't be both the way you are doing it.

[Vbs]

Let's just say that with ~$0.20/kWh where I live, I'm definitely interested!

[jamesg]

Original idea 10,000 shares at 1.2 BTC equals 12,000 BTC  at this moment in time ~$55,000 4x BFL min-rigs equals ~60,000 or $5,000 cost to him for the two mini-rigs he gains through this bond if BTC goes over $5 you actually pay him to have bought these not just the gain of the rigs. So if that math is not simple enough for you then I don't particularly care just be informed as to what is going on he makes essentially two free mini-rigs by doing this if your all happy with that purchase away.

DILLIGAF, your math is a little simplistic. Let me pose a couple of questions.

- Who pays for the electricity to run the 50Gh?
- Who takes on the responsibility to deliver the coupon payments every week?
- Who is effected if equipment dies?
- Who pays for downtime?
- Who pays for power outages?
- Who pays if the HVAC dies?

To answer all of those questions (and i'm sure there are more I am not thinking of) at once, I am taking on these responsibilities. Again, I hope to be setup in such a way to be able to still deliver even in the face of great adversity.

If you feel that this does not warrant the premium I suggested, please let me know what you feel is a reasonable rate.

Good enough as I have said now people know the rest they can buy if they wish too I don't care one way or the other just pointing out the math of it as they seem to be fond of and the confusing terms you have used it is either bond or mining company can't be both the way you are doing it.

I have changed the name of the venture to "Gigamining Bonds" to try and be as clear as possible.

[copumpkin]

Well you can chop it in half to reflect the fact that those 50gh/s you are bonding is actually included in that bond not the full purchase price of the 100gh/s you are getting for those BTC you raise with this.

That analysis is too simplistic. Can you do some real math and come back with a more reasonable suggestion?

Original idea 10,000 shares at 1.2 BTC equals 12,000 BTC  at this moment in time ~$55,000 4x BFL min-rigs equals ~60,000 or $5,000 cost to him for the two mini-rigs he gains through this bond if BTC goes over $5 you actually pay him to have bought these not just the gain of the rigs. So if that math is not simple enough for you then I don't particularly care just be informed as to what is going on he makes essentially two free mini-rigs by doing this if your all happy with that purchase away. Oh he says he is setting up mining company a couple of times now and as I have already pointed out all of them I have seen include all the equipment and BTC earned from that equipment in their calculations for the BTC put up to start it. Now I would imagine he will quibble over this saying it is bond well if it is that then continue to refer to it as such.

Well you can chop it in half to reflect the fact that those 50gh/s you are bonding is actually included in that bond not the full purchase price of the 100gh/s you are getting for those BTC you raise with this. Oh and the hardware mentioned that you intend to use for this bond is here.

I have decided to disclose all of my hashing power so that investors can know that I am capable of fulfilling the bond payments even if equipment was to fail. It also states in bold that the 10k coupons equate to 50Gh.

Good enough as I have said now people know the rest they can buy if they wish too I don't care one way or the other just pointing out the math of it as they seem to be fond of and the confusing terms you have used it is either bond or mining company can't be both the way you are doing it.

Usually people don't take their counterparty making a profit as an insult, if they make a profit too. Would you be less opposed had he lied and said he had no BFLs and was just GPU mining with the increased electricity costs?

Either way, his electricity costs may be lower than many people's because of where he lives and his agreements for bulk power. He has infrastructure for monitoring miners and keeping them running at all times, which is more than most casual miners can say. In short, he's got some degree of an economy of scale. And, regarding risk, as I said before, if hardware fails or some other catastrophic event happens, he either has to buy the bonds back or find some other way to provide 50ghash/s.

The positive response on this thread from everyone but you suggests that you're approaching this from a different angle from everyone else. The information he put out there suggests he's got a decent profit margin on this deal, but it isn't risk-free or "free money" by any means, due to the running costs and so on.

To put this in a different way, say you're happily going to a store and buying your groceries from them, because the food is worth more to you than the money you hand over to them to buy it. One day, you look at their supplier invoices and see that their prices are marked up by 200%. Would you stop shopping there? Would you leave angry notes on the store's door telling the store manager and the store's customers about the purported price gouging going on?

[Vbs]

Giga is selling hassle-free MH/s at a fixed price up front, how complex can that be to understand??? Its more easily compared to running your own hardware than trying to estimate the earnings from a variable mining operation.

Funny how making things simpler sometimes ignites the most unimaginable arguments...

[DILLIGAF]

The positive response on this thread from everyone but you suggests that you're approaching this from a different angle from everyone else.

Yes I am that angle would be what he is essentially telling you people is this. Give me ~$60,000 I am going to buy 4 machines with that money then dedicate 2 of them to your payback. The other two I get for just being me the wonderful person I am, thank you very much for your donation. Now you if fools want to go for that go right ahead because that is exactly what the proposal is.

[rjk]

The positive response on this thread from everyone but you suggests that you're approaching this from a different angle from everyone else.

Yes I am that angle would be what he is essentially telling you people is this. Give me ~$60,000 I am going to buy 4 machines with that money then dedicate 2 of them to your payback. The other two I get for just being me the wonderful person I am, thank you very much for your donation. Now you if fools want to go for that go right ahead because that is exactly what the proposal is.

Since there are investors itching to lay hands on this offering, why not start a clone of it for yourself? Oh I know why, you don't have shit to back up the bonds if the hardware fails or whatever reason.

[John (John K.)]

Sounds good. I'll be investing too when all the details are out 

[DILLIGAF]

The positive response on this thread from everyone but you suggests that you're approaching this from a different angle from everyone else.

Yes I am that angle would be what he is essentially telling you people is this. Give me ~$60,000 I am going to buy 4 machines with that money then dedicate 2 of them to your payback. The other two I get for just being me the wonderful person I am, thank you very much for your donation. Now you if fools want to go for that go right ahead because that is exactly what the proposal is.

Since there are investors itching to lay hands on this offering, why not start a clone of it for yourself? Oh I know why, you don't have shit to back up the bonds if the hardware fails or whatever reason.

Well yes I have had that thought, Are these people stupid enough to go for it twice? Yeah come give me some free hardware as well although I would do it differently. To start I would have trust account at my lawyers office in which I would deposit the funds from my business to cover loss of machine(s) and I have plenty of it to do so troll, secondly I would have actual hardware in my possession and last but not least it would be structured in a way such that the bond holders did not get screwed so bad. Well you all know what you are getting into by now so good luck..

[copumpkin]

The positive response on this thread from everyone but you suggests that you're approaching this from a different angle from everyone else.

Yes I am that angle would be what he is essentially telling you people is this. Give me ~$60,000 I am going to buy 4 machines with that money then dedicate 2 of them to your payback. The other two I get for just being me the wonderful person I am, thank you very much for your donation. Now you if fools want to go for that go right ahead because that is exactly what the proposal is.

Well, if you're going to resort to insulting our intelligence without addressing my points, I'm going to disregard anything else you have to say, as I'm sure many others will. At first I thought you have something insightful to say, but now it's clear you're just being contrary.

[JusticeForYou]

The positive response on this thread from everyone but you suggests that you're approaching this from a different angle from everyone else.

Yes I am that angle would be what he is essentially telling you people is this. Give me ~$60,000 I am going to buy 4 machines with that money then dedicate 2 of them to your payback. The other two I get for just being me the wonderful person I am, thank you very much for your donation. Now you if fools want to go for that go right ahead because that is exactly what the proposal is.

Lets do an extreme example: Lets replace (he) with Warren Buffet.

Warren: I want you to invest with me by buying bonds and I will pay dividends on your investment. By the way, I am going to use your money to become a Billionaire and make money.

Investors: Where do I sign.


Now, I am not implying that Giga is Warren. But he is aspiring to become Warren and willing to possibly bring others along for some profit. It is entirely possible that it will not work. That is why it is called: INVESTING.

[adamstgBit]

The positive response on this thread from everyone but you suggests that you're approaching this from a different angle from everyone else.

Yes I am that angle would be what he is essentially telling you people is this. Give me ~$60,000 I am going to buy 4 machines with that money then dedicate 2 of them to your payback. The other two I get for just being me the wonderful person I am, thank you very much for your donation. Now you if fools want to go for that go right ahead because that is exactly what the proposal is.

Lets do an extreme example: Lets replace (he) with Warren Buffet.

Warren: I want you to invest with me by buying bonds and I will pay dividends on your investment. By the way, I am going to use your money to become a Billionaire and make money.

Investors: Where do I sign.


Now, I am not implying that Giga is Warren. But he is aspiring to become Warren and willing to possibly bring others along for some profit. It is entirely possible that it will not work. That is why it is called: INVESTING.

so.... Where do I sign? 

[TheOtherGuy]

Feedback

1 BTC would be more reasonable for me. The payback at today's difficulty and price is about 300 days. At 1.2 BTC the payback goes to almost exactly 1 year. I think I would buy in at either price but my level of participation would probably change depending on what that price is.

I do believe though that you will sell all of them quickly at either price. I think your reputation alone will sell an awful lot.

My BFL Singles (imaginary to date) have a payback of 281 days. I need to get my GPU's replaced soon as my electricity is going to .13 in May.

Good luck and I will be following along.

[guruvan]

yada yada.

This sounds like an excellent deal for our portfolio here. Of course a businessman would like to make a profit, and if he wouldn't, I don't trust him - 2 BFLs is a pretty nice little profit. I also very much appreciate anyone who is smart enough to realize their profit up front, rather than wait!!

gigavps, I'd really like to see this. The price point looks right in line. While I trust you, my partners may want some additional verification of the production of the 5Mh/s per coupon (I'm covering all my bases here)  Do you have any software in production or development to provide that?

My one issue is the repurchase (and forgive me if I failed to read exactly)

Are you offering to repurchase at 105% the (somewhat standard) previous 30day average price, or 105% the initial purchase price?

I would like the bond to be offered after the mining operation is installed. I have a good deal of money out on mining gear already, and would prefer not to pay a premium to wait for yours  - overspeculation before mining ops commence could be to your detriment if you have to repo coupons at an averaged price.

there are a few choice offerings now on the GLBSE, and this looks like it will be one.

[jamesg]

gigavps, I'd really like to see this. The price point looks right in line. While I trust you, my partners may want some additional verification of the production of the 5Mh/s per coupon (I'm covering all my bases here)  Do you have any software in production or development to provide that?

Yes. I run BAMT which has a web monitoring tool so that anyone with the web address can easily see my entire farm hashing away. I currently have this page locked down in apache but would open it up for investors to review.

My one issue is the repurchase (and forgive me if I failed to read exactly)

Are you offering to repurchase at 105% the (somewhat standard) previous 30day average price, or 105% the initial purchase price?

The repurchase would be at 105% of the highest traded price over the previous 15 days.

I would like the bond to be offered after the mining operation is installed. I have a good deal of money out on mining gear already, and would prefer not to pay a premium to wait for yours  - overspeculation before mining ops commence could be to your detriment if you have to repo coupons at an averaged price.

there are a few choice offerings now on the GLBSE, and this looks like it will be one.

Thank you for your constructive feedback. It was my first thought also that the hashing power be installed before the initial offering.

I appreciate your kind words regarding the offering.

[jamesg]

Feedback

1 BTC would be more reasonable for me. The payback at today's difficulty and price is about 300 days. At 1.2 BTC the payback goes to almost exactly 1 year. I think I would buy in at either price but my level of participation would probably change depending on what that price is.

Thanks for the feedback. I too am starting to that the 1 BTC range is where this bond should start at.

I do believe though that you will sell all of them quickly at either price. I think your reputation alone will sell an awful lot.

Thank you. I appreciate your kind words.

[jamesg]

Sounds good. I'll be investing too when all the details are out 

Please let me know if I have missed any details. I am trying to cover all of my basis before the mini rig boxes arrive. As full disclosure, the mini rig boxes should be arriving sometime in May.

[Kaos]

The positive response on this thread from everyone but you suggests that you're approaching this from a different angle from everyone else.

Yes I am that angle would be what he is essentially telling you people is this. Give me ~$60,000 I am going to buy 4 machines with that money then dedicate 2 of them to your payback. The other two I get for just being me the wonderful person I am, thank you very much for your donation. Now you if fools want to go for that go right ahead because that is exactly what the proposal is.

Since there are investors itching to lay hands on this offering, why not start a clone of it for yourself? Oh I know why, you don't have shit to back up the bonds if the hardware fails or whatever reason.

Well yes I have had that thought, Are these people stupid enough to go for it twice? Yeah come give me some free hardware as well although I would do it differently. To start I would have trust account at my lawyers office in which I would deposit the funds from my business to cover loss of machine(s) and I have plenty of it to do so troll, secondly I would have actual hardware in my possession and last but not least it would be structured in a way such that the bond holders did not get screwed so bad. Well you all know what you are getting into by now so good luck..

You insist with your extremely simplistic calculations that do not account for many factors.

No offence but you either need to work on your math skills or business skills. Either way go check my math a few posts back and see why at 1BTC/5Gh it's a good deal.

Although like all investments there's a chance that within the months it will take to brake even the BTC will crash, people will lose interest and god knows what.

The only realistic big lose scenario is if gigavps desides to buy back in say 6 months while manipulating the stock to be extremely cheaper (say 0.20btc + the promised 5%) than it was when you originally bought it. But I think Gigavps has a better reputation than that to pull a fast one.

[fizzisist]

The BFL Single was advertised for 600 MH/sec and now it's over 800 MH/sec, I say it can reach to 1Gh/sec by Q3 2012 but that's about it.

Correction, the BFL single was originally advertised at 1 GH/s (and 20 W). It was later reduced to 830 MH/s (and increased to 80W) when they actually got their hands on hardware, not simulations.

[jamesg]

The only realistic big lose scenario is if gigavps desides to buy back in say 6 months while manipulating the stock to be extremely cheaper (say 0.20btc + the promised 5%) than it was when you originally bought it. But I think Gigavps has a better reputation than that to pull a fast one.

I have a feeling that if this bond is initially offered at 1 BTC per coupon, the initial buyers will make out on both the coupon price increase and the full 100% PPS payments.

That being said, I cannot predict the future. Each purchaser must do their due diligence to a) understand the mining business and the cycles it goes through, b) decided for themselves the value this bond offers and c) whether they would like to participate.