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El Cabron
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March 27, 2012, 11:41:09 AM
 #1

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Sorry El Cabron, you are banned from posting or sending personal messages on this forum.
Trolling
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622250.msg7030081#msg7030081
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friedcat
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March 27, 2012, 11:51:06 AM
 #2

TyGrr-Bot (GLBSE)

TyGrr-Bot is an automated arbitrage trading system TyGrr Virtual Industries has been working on in its laboratory for the last 2 months. This bot will trade at different exchanges and in different currencies to maximize profitability.

This bot is designed to only make a trade if profit is guaranteed. This bot does not use an algorithm to guess the future price of BTC. TyGrr Bot is extremely fast insuring it will have access to the best trades.
We expect to be fully operational in one week and expect to be paying dividends in 2 to 3 weeks.  This is not guaranteed.

We are now selling TyGrr-Bot bonds on GLBSE at the rate of 1BTC for 1 TyGrr-Bot bond.
Dividends will be paid weekly around 6 PM Thai time and in the form of BTC.

The rate of dividend is not guaranteed and will be reflective of the returns generated that week minus operating costs.

To operate trades effectively we will need to hold large amounts of BTC and currency on the exchanges. This is why we are selling such a high amount of bonds.

We will be trading and holding USD, EUR, GBP, THB, CYN, SLL, and BTC.

I will be happy to answer any and all questions.

Thank you,
Chaang-Noi  (CEO of TyGrr Virtual Industries)


It is a very good idea overall, and I believe it will make an excellent contribution to the Bitcoin market if it's indeed profitable and (hence) sustainable.

But is it very practical really? The gross gain has to exceed (trading fee + deposit fee + withdrawing fee) to make any profits. Unless you have some unique ways to greatly reduce or eliminate some part of the fees. Undecided

friedcat
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March 27, 2012, 12:07:32 PM
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Yeah, we are able to get rid of some of the fees. Nice to have friends in high places:/

The costs of the fees will clearly be calculated in part of the trade. We have done some projects using past data and we think this will be very worth while. This is why we have spent so much time and effort.

Thanks.

Thanks for your quick reply. Smiley This bot must have lots of efforts involved in.

I'm sorry I still have some questions. I may even ask more questions in the future. At what kind of degree of financial disclosure will you provide? Will there be a website collecting data of daily trades and the cost? Thanks.

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March 27, 2012, 12:09:38 PM
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So many cool IPOs, so little spare BTC to buy them... Sad
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March 27, 2012, 12:37:01 PM
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Interesting  Grin

@ friedcat

If you have a look at http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/ you'll easily find an awful lot of price differences that could easily be exploited if you have the ability to withdraw etc in different currencies.

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March 27, 2012, 12:51:03 PM
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Yeah, we are able to get rid of some of the fees. Nice to have friends in high places:/

The costs of the fees will clearly be calculated in part of the trade. We have done some projects using past data and we think this will be very worth while. This is why we have spent so much time and effort.

Thanks.

Thanks for your quick reply. Smiley This bot must have lots of efforts involved in.

I'm sorry I still have some questions. I may even ask more questions in the future. At what kind of degree of financial disclosure will you provide? Will there be a website collecting data of daily trades and the cost? Thanks.

That is a very good question. I understand that there needs to be accountability but also we don't want to give away all our secrets either. Honestly I don't know at this point.

Edit: We will report the daily volume and the profit. We will not report each trade.

Thanks for your answer. The daily volume and the profit without each trade is reasonable to me. Smiley

Then, could we have a brief idea of your plan about the percentage of net gains kept for yourself and that paid to us as dividends?

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March 27, 2012, 02:26:53 PM
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Any estimated profit from each share weekly according to past data?

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March 27, 2012, 04:51:25 PM
 #8

Watching.

There shouldn't be any delay in the IPO this time, one it hits the time it will launch.

PGP key id at pgp.mit.edu 0xA68F4B7C

To get help and support for GLBSE please email support@glbse.com
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March 27, 2012, 04:57:12 PM
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 Undecided

Will there be an automated output to show your share holders current positions, expected/desired positions and trade history?

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March 27, 2012, 07:18:12 PM
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How are you going to get USD/EURO/etc funds? By selling BTC? How are you going to protect yourself against exchange rate swings in that case?

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March 28, 2012, 02:34:59 AM
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How are you going to get USD/EURO/etc funds? By selling BTC? How are you going to protect yourself against exchange rate swings in that case?

This risk will and can not be avoided. However it is not really an issue as we will be buying and selling all of the time. The only time it would become an issues is if/when we wind down the project.

Considering this is what brought LIF.X down, I would not underestimate exchange rate risk! You will effectively have assets in a mixture of BTC and fiat, but all your liability/equity will be in BTC. If would be less risk for you if you could raise funds in BTC and in fiat, or have some mechanism in place to hedge this risk.

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March 28, 2012, 03:01:15 AM
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We do not want to show our trade history. In the long run this will make us ineffective. However current positions from time to time will not be an issue. Desired positions can not really be reported. By the time the report comes it will already be trade history. We will only act when we can make a match and make some money.
How will posting trade history make you ineffective? Showing a trade history in this market is needed IMHO because anyone could say, "Hey guys/girls, we lost money this week...sorry". Desired trade positions can be monitored. Even in the volatility of the BTC market, if 'you're buying high and selling low', trade positions can be open for days/weeks.

There is no trading methodology here or than sell high and buy low.
Without a trading plan, other than this, you are bound to fail...

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March 28, 2012, 03:20:57 AM
 #13

Since it's a bond, when will you payback the capital ?

Watching.

stochastic
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March 28, 2012, 03:59:40 AM
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Will you be attempting to do any triangular or multi-currency arbitrage or are you going to only stick to two-currency pair arbitrage?

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
Red Emerald
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March 28, 2012, 04:07:15 AM
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Cool idea.  I've seen talk of arbitrage bots before.

Are you also buying back the bonds at like you are for the bank?

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March 28, 2012, 04:33:12 AM
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Will you be attempting to do any triangular or multi-currency arbitrage or are you going to only stick to two-currency pair arbitrage?

Yeah, that is the whole point of this. We are going to be the biggest fastest arb bot out there.


So both?  I am sure you will do what most other bots in the bitcoin world do by taking advantage of inefficiencies between two bitcoin exchanges.

Will you be taking advantage of different exchanges that use different currencies?  For example, an inefficiency exists between the BTC/USD on mtgox, BTC/RMB on btcchina.com, and USD/BTC at your bank.  If you are doing this triangular arbitrage how will you protect against slippage in the fiat currency exchange rate?


Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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March 28, 2012, 05:06:15 AM
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No offense, but this does not sound as well planned or safe as your other ventures. This sounds extremely risky. Sell high, buy low is one of the least effective trading (un)strategies around. You do not sound like you have significant trading experience.

Basket trading is complex. Basket trading with live currency, rather than leveraged pairs is even more complex, as there are multiple exchange rates to arbitrage.

There are several questions to consider:

Who developed the bot, and what is the developer's trading experience?

Are there any test results for the bot?

Has it run with live funds yet?

Will the bot be using leveraged funds to trade?

No trading strategy is 100% effective. In many cases, the closer it comes to 100% the more likely a market change will make the strategy ineffective. Extremely high Win/Loss ratios tend to be accompanied by significant losses (after a successful run)  A bot is only 90% as effective as the underlying strategy it uses.

I'm not saying it sounds like a bad deal, just very risky, and that some additional information might make for more informed decisions by investors.




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March 28, 2012, 05:19:49 AM
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No offense, but this does not sound as well planned or safe as your other ventures. This sounds extremely risky. Sell high, buy low is one of the least effective trading (un)strategies around. You do not sound like you have significant trading experience.
He is talking about arbitrage which is not the same as basket trading.

All arbitrage is is buying low and selling higher at at the same time on different markets.  There isn't much strategy to give besides having lots of liquidity in lots of markets.  Profits aren't guaranteed and will only last as long as a bunch of other others don't join the game, but assuming the fees are accounted for properly no money should be lost.

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March 28, 2012, 05:38:19 AM
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"If you are doing this triangular arbitrage how will you protect against slippage in the fiat currency exchange rate?"

We will not protect against slippage other than be relatively balanced in what we hold. Yen goes down dollars go up a small amount. The difference will be not noticeable.

If we do 2000 trades a day and make 50 cents a trade the 5$ we might lose in the currency slippage for the day wont really matter all that much.

This system is not perfectly efficient but it will be more efficient than what is in the wild now if funded fully.




Do you have your bot hooked into fiat trading exchanges so you can exchange USD for EUR or RMB, ect?

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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March 28, 2012, 05:46:26 AM
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I do understand precisely what you're doing. Yes, I think you need to explain it better to the those investors who do not understand the nature of what your bot does.

Basket trading is one means of achieving arbitrage. In this case he's using a triangular arbitrage based on a basket of positions (i.e. in EUR, USD, JPY, BTC, etc etc) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitrage

If you're suggesting that the bot will be trading 100% real time, and never hold a position on any currency then I will concede it is not basket trading. As soon as the bot has a bunch of USD or a bunch of BTC or EUR, it's got a position, and really - two - long one, short the other. This is where the risk is.

Also, as other arbitrage bots have seen the ban hammer from exchanges, what assurances do you have that yours will not?

I'm not trying to derail your project in any way. I am inclined to consider investing in a project like this. This, as pitched, sounds risky. ForEx trading is inherently risky, but this sounds more so. Perhaps if you provide more detail, and performance evidence, it wouldn't sound so risky Smiley


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