KnCMiner selling raw chips for $.15 / GH

[wonko]

Have you guys seen this? https://www.kncminer.com/products/knc-28nm-sha256-processor

I'm surprised there is not a group buy up for it yet.  They're selling the chips for dirt cheap.  The only thing I don't like is they're not supplying the documentation before the purchase, I emailed them to see if I could get the documentation ahead of time.

Seems like the perfect chip for an open-sourced board/solution

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[dogie]

Have you guys seen this? https://www.kncminer.com/products/knc-28nm-sha256-processor

I'm surprised there is not a group buy up for it yet.  They're selling the chips for dirt cheap.  The only thing I don't like is they're not supplying the documentation before the purchase, I emailed them to see if I could get the documentation ahead of time.

Seems like the perfect chip for an open-sourced board/solution

They're technically very, very, difficult chips to design for. There's also likely a reason they've been sitting on KNC's shelves for a while.

[dropt]

They're technically very, very, difficult chips to design for.

Why do you say that?

[dogie]

They're technically very, very, difficult chips to design for.

Why do you say that?

Low yield rate, BGA package with high ball count, difficult DC/DC.

[tvasbn]

It will be better to inform the buyers on the PCB manufacturer that made their original boards, whit that manufacturer we could be 100% that will get working board, otherwise, even whit the gerber files from KnN its still a huge risk to order boards just to find out that there not mining.

The gerber files from HashFast Evo boards are free from months and yet by this point only peppermining manage the make a working board for the GoldenNonce 700Gh Chip.

[dogie]

It will be better to inform the buyers on the PCB manufacturer that made their original boards, whit that manufacturer we could be 100% that will get working board, otherwise, even whit the gerber files from KnN its still a huge risk to order boards just to find out that there not mining.

The gerber files from HashFast Evo boards are free from months and yet by this point only peppermining manage the make a working board for the GoldenNonce 700Gh Chip.

And BitCrane.

[dropt]

Low yield rate, BGA package with high ball count, difficult DC/DC.

Did you just make this stuff up?   You should probably stick to Mechanics.

[dogie]

Low yield rate, BGA package with high ball count, difficult DC/DC.

Did you just make this stuff up?   You should probably stick to Mechanics.

No. You going to disagree with what I said or just generally disagree.

[dropt]

No. You going to disagree with what I said or just generally disagree.

Low yield rate has nothing to do with the difficulty to "design for".  You design for a fully functional chip, and in the event that a chip bins less than A grade, it's not an issue.

High BGA count really doesn't mean anything.  You either construct the component on your own, or use a pre-existing model.  This process is only time intensive and really does not reflect on "difficult to design for".  Otherwise, the bulk of the BGA pads are for Vdd/Vcc and ground, all of which are just tied to their respective plane(s).  The few IO pins that do exist can be adequately routed through a multi-layer PCB.

Multiphase DC/DC regulation isn't rocket science.  In fact, most MP controller documentation makes recommendations as to what MOSFETs are ideal as well as the desired pad configuration.  Further, KnC didn't even use their own implementation of a multiphase design.  They used complete design solutions from GE and Ericsson.

I agree that there are some challenges in designing a PCB for these chips, but the design challenges don't have much to do with what you've stated, if at all.

[bbxx]

is it large cost to resolder/replace broken chips at kncminer boards?

maybe this is a way to use thoose chips...

or create 1:1 clone of knc boards

is there a chance they will give enough information to create a clone?

thanks

[dogie]

No. You going to disagree with what I said or just generally disagree.

Low yield rate has nothing to do with the difficulty to "design for".  You design for a fully functional chip, and in the event that a chip bins less than A grade, it's not an issue.

High BGA count really doesn't mean anything.  You either construct the component on your own, or use a pre-existing model.  This process is only time intensive and really does not reflect on "difficult to design for".  Otherwise, the bulk of the BGA pads are for Vdd/Vcc and ground, all of which are just tied to their respective plane(s).  The few IO pins that do exist can be adequately routed through a multi-layer PCB.

Multiphase DC/DC regulation isn't rocket science.  In fact, most MP controller documentation makes recommendations as to what MOSFETs are ideal as well as the desired pad configuration.  Further, KnC didn't even use their own implementation of a multiphase design.  They used complete design solutions from GE and Ericsson.

I agree that there are some challenges in designing a PCB for these chips, but the design challenges don't have much to do with what you've stated, if at all.

My auto refresher destroyed my reply to this 3x, so I've given up typing it out. But yeah, I'll take a QFN64 chip over a 2800 ball BGA chip any day.

[MrTeal]

It will be better to inform the buyers on the PCB manufacturer that made their original boards, whit that manufacturer we could be 100% that will get working board, otherwise, even whit the gerber files from KnN its still a huge risk to order boards just to find out that there not mining.

The gerber files from HashFast Evo boards are free from months and yet by this point only peppermining manage the make a working board for the GoldenNonce 700Gh Chip.

And BitCrane.

Unless they have a different board in the production versions than is shown on their website, the Bitcrane board is exactly the same as the Evo board, with a Bitcrane logo added to the silkscreen layer.

That being said, while KnC hasn't gotten back to me with information on the chips yet, I don't see why they should be a challenge to design for. They should certainly be easier to work with than the HF chips in terms of board layout.

[urbanBTC]

It will be better to inform the buyers on the PCB manufacturer that made their original boards, whit that manufacturer we could be 100% that will get working board, otherwise, even whit the gerber files from KnN its still a huge risk to order boards just to find out that there not mining.

The gerber files from HashFast Evo boards are free from months and yet by this point only peppermining manage the make a working board for the GoldenNonce 700Gh Chip.

And /skfx67]BitCrane.

Unless they have a different board in the production versions than is shown on their website, the Bitcrane board is exactly the same as the Evo board, with a Bitcrane logo added to the silkscreen layer.

That being said, while KnC hasn't gotten back to me with information on the chips yet, I don't see why they should be a challenge to design for. They should certainly be easier to work with than the HF chips in terms of board layout.

There are differents!  Bitcrane paid Dogie toll of sending miner.

[dogie]

It will be better to inform the buyers on the PCB manufacturer that made their original boards, whit that manufacturer we could be 100% that will get working board, otherwise, even whit the gerber files from KnN its still a huge risk to order boards just to find out that there not mining.

The gerber files from HashFast Evo boards are free from months and yet by this point only peppermining manage the make a working board for the GoldenNonce 700Gh Chip.

And /skfx67]BitCrane.

Unless they have a different board in the production versions than is shown on their website, the Bitcrane board is exactly the same as the Evo board, with a Bitcrane logo added to the silkscreen layer.

That being said, while KnC hasn't gotten back to me with information on the chips yet, I don't see why they should be a challenge to design for. They should certainly be easier to work with than the HF chips in terms of board layout.

There are differents!  Bitcrane paid Dogie toll of sending miner.

Another one for the ignore list... Its reference with minor tweaks.

[Collider]

.... Why would you buy this chip anyway, the maximum you could get out of it is probably 1W/GH.

[Beastlymac]

.... Why would you buy this chip anyway, the maximum you could get out of it is probably 1W/GH.

Very cheap cost for chip. The issue is the cost required for the manufacturing if the boards. To make purchasing the chips and manufacturing them onto boards viable it would need to be done immediately and at the cheapest possible manufacturing price. You would also need cheap power.

[wonko]

got a reply back from them about getting documentation:

Hi,

The documentations will be sent with the chips and not before purchase.
Unfortunately we do not sell a sample of 1 or 2 chips. We sell these chips in sets of 200.

Best regards 
Med vänlig hälsning

Natalie Forslund

Kncminer
www.kncminer.com
Office: +46 8559 253
20

[Beastlymac]

got a reply back from them about getting documentation:

Hi,

The documentations will be sent with the chips and not before purchase.
Unfortunately we do not sell a sample of 1 or 2 chips. We sell these chips in sets of 200.

Best regards 
Med vänlig hälsning

Natalie Forslund

Kncminer
www.kncminer.com
Office: +46 8559 253
20

Is that documentation for the chip or documentation for a complete pcb?

[J4bberwock]

I was interested too, but it looks like you can't even have 1 sample and datasheet or anything to test a design before ordering.
Does anyone know of the typical power draw of the chips?
I've read somewhere that they aren't that efficient, so if we need downclocking them to half their hashrate to have 1W/GH, we are effectively paying 0.3$/GH
Not that interesting compared to other one where you get the datasheet and everyhting you need before ordering the chips.

[Taugeran]

I did the same thing asking of only documentation on pinout and protocol

And received an almost word for word reply.