Direct Dice - 10 BTC Jackpot ! Bitcoin, Litecoin, Dogecoin & Darkcoin !

[DirectBet]

Hey guys,

Any feedback on our new Direct Dice ?

Comments ? Suggestions ?

What would you like to see next ?

[1714973964]

1714973964

[DirectBet]

Check out our Basketball Prediction Game for your chance to win 220 mBTC free bet !

It's free to enter.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=721578.0

[DirectBet]

[DirectBet]

We encourage you to use Direct Dice to earn some extra loyalty points in order to reach the next VIP reward milestone before the month ends.

This will be profitable for you because Direct Dice features extremely low house edge to no house edge, depending on your VIP level.

For example, lets say that you have 80,000 loyalty points and you need 20,000 more to get 0.75 BTC reward.

You can bet with the Direct Dice with virtually no house edge to get those 20,000 loyalty points and unlock the 0.75 BTC reward, plus during the process you will be freerolling on the 10 BTC Jackpot !

Any Direct Dice bet qualifies for loyalty points.

If you roll 101, your bet will always win, no matter what you selected.

In addition, if your bet stake is at least 0.01 BTC, 1 LTC or 50,000 DOGE, and is not part of a losing Toto ~ Parlay slip, you will also win the 10 BTC Jackpot.

The chance to hit 101 is approx. once every 1 million rolls.

Good Luck !

[dooglus]

In the long run, all we're going to lose is the 10 BTC Jackpot, which is offered "on the house".

Players have no edge over the game itself and DirectBet is well funded to overcome any kind of short term variance.

But I also read:

For a limited time, to celebrate the launch of Direct Dice, you the players have an edge on Direct Dice and can profit from it.

What is this "limited time"? And what happens after that time? Is this 0% edge a limited promotion or the way things will stay?

Lots of people on the PrimeDice thread are upset with Stunna because they bet "too much" to build up their faucet payments, with a view to using the increased faucet payments to recover their losses. Now he's cutting the faucet payments and people feel like they've been deceived.

What's the story here? On the one hand it sounds like you're offering this "VIP reward" forever, giving an effective +EV deal to big players but then I find a comment from you on a separate thread saying it is "for a limited time".

Clarity please.

I also found these three statements:

(on http://www.directbet.eu/VIP.cshtml):

You earn 1 loyalty point for every 0.001 BTC, 0.05 LTC or 1000 DOGE that you bet. You will receive a reward for reaching each of the following milestones [bet 1000 BTC in a month, get a total of 10 BTC in rewards]

To ensure that we don't know in advance the outcome of the dice roll, we add another random value which is not in our control, and that is the transaction ID of your bet transfer, as it appears in the block chain.

(on http://www.directbet.eu/VIP.cshtml):

The rewards are awarded in the form of free bets. To claim your reward :

Order any single bet or Toto ~ Parlay that you like using your Bitcoin payout address and the 'Flexible Odds' betting option.

Email the bet ID to support@directbet.eu and we will fund it with the reward amount.

So:

1) if I bet 1000 BTC you will give me a free 10 BTC bet
2) the bets are provably fair because the transaction ID is used as a client seed
3) for the 10 BTC bet you get to pick the transaction ID, and hence the client seed, and hence the bet result

Those 3 together seem to mean the free 10 BTC bet *isn't* provably fair, since you pick all the inputs including the client seed.

Did I get that right?

[elm]

So:

1) if I bet 1000 BTC you will give me a free 10 BTC bet
2) the bets are provably fair because the transaction ID is used as a client seed
3) for the 10 BTC bet you get to pick the transaction ID, and hence the client seed, and hence the bet result

Those 3 together seem to mean the free 10 BTC bet *isn't* provably fair, since you pick all the inputs including the client seed.

Did I get that right?

nice catch  lets see the answer

[dooglus]

If your Lucky Number is 101 with a bet stake of at least 0.01 BTC, 1 LTC or 50,000 DOGE and the bet is not part of a losing Toto ~ Parlay slip, it will be eligible for the 10 BTC Jackpot.

In addition, if your bet stake is at least 0.01 BTC, 1 LTC or 50,000 DOGE, and is not part of a losing Toto ~ Parlay slip, you will also win the 10 BTC Jackpot.

The chance to hit 101 is approx. once every 1 million rolls.

What if two people both roll 101 with regular 0.01 BTC bets? Will you pay out two separate 10 BTC jackpots? Will it be split between then, 5 BTC each? Will just the first winner get the 10 BTC?

This "eligible" word is a little concerning - I'm not quite sure what you mean. How many 10 BTC jackpots are you willing to pay out?

Also, when going to place a bet, I see:

This Bitcoin address is also your Bet ID. Refresh this page to obtain the most up to date Bet Status. [...]

You can send multiple bets to this address.

That's confusing. If the address is the bet ID, how does it make sense to be able to send multiple bets to the same address?

It seems like you're saying multiple bets can have the same Bet ID.

wikipedia:

An identifier is a name that identifies (that is, labels the identity of) either a unique object or a unique class of objects

and so a Bet ID should identify a unique Bet, no?

[DirectBet]

What is this "limited time"? And what happens after that time? Is this 0% edge a limited promotion or the way things will stay?

Hi dooglus,

Thanks for your questions. Please allow me to clarify :

Direct Dice built-in house edge is 0.99%, however, frequent bettors receive a rebate of up to 1% of their bets stake through our VIP Rewards Program so if you reach the highest VIP level, you will actually have 0.01% edge on the house. In addition, you will be freerolling on the Jackpot because the 0.99% built-in house edge does not factor in the Jackpot.

Currently Direct Dice is +EV for the most frequent bettors and even if you reach just the second VIP level, you will still enjoy a very low 0.2% house edge, and that's before factoring the Jackpot.

Obviously, in the long run, we can not keep the small edge that players can currently have on the Direct Dice. What we will do in the future is reduce the amount of loyalty points that you will earn for each Direct Dice bet so that players will not have an edge.

We will probably keep the no house edge for the most frequent bettors, but will eliminate the small edge that players can currently gain over the house.

I can not tell at this point when this will happen, however, we will give out an advanced notice, and the change will get into effect on the following month so this will not affect players who are in the process of earning VIP rewards as they are awarded on a monthly basis.

http://www.directbet.eu/VIP.cshtml

So:

1) if I bet 1000 BTC you will give me a free 10 BTC bet
2) the bets are provably fair because the transaction ID is used as a client seed
3) for the 10 BTC bet you get to pick the transaction ID, and hence the client seed, and hence the bet result

Those 3 together seem to mean the free 10 BTC bet *isn't* provably fair, since you pick all the inputs including the client seed.

Did I get that right?

Technically, you are right, and I must admit that we haven't thought of this scenario.

If you earn a VIP reward and would like to spend it on a Direct Dice bet, and you are concerned about this, please either PM me or e-mail support@directbet.eu

We will send you the reward amount so you will be able to fund the bet yourself.

[DirectBet]

What if two people both roll 101 with regular 0.01 BTC bets? Will you pay out two separate 10 BTC jackpots?

Yes, in such a case each player will win 10 BTC. Multiple winners are expected.

Also, when going to place a bet, I see:

This Bitcoin address is also your Bet ID. Refresh this page to obtain the most up to date Bet Status. [...]

You can send multiple bets to this address.

That's confusing. If the address is the bet ID, how does it make sense to be able to send multiple bets to the same address?

It seems like you're saying multiple bets can have the same Bet ID.

The Bet ID is the Bitcoin address where you have to send your bet to.

Once you send in your bet, it gets a secondary ID, which is the block-chain transaction ID of your bet transfer.

If you send multiple bet transfers to the same bet, they will all be listed together on the same Bet Status page under the Bet ID, and each transfer will be identified by its transaction ID.

When you go to : http://www.directbet.eu/BetStatus.cshtml you can look up your bet by entering either the bet deposit address or transaction ID of one of your bet transfers.

The bet ID identifies the bet that you ordered (event, selection, betting option, secret, etc.) while each bet transfer is identified by its block-chain transaction ID.

[dooglus]

The bet ID identifies the bet that you ordered (event, selection, betting option, secret, etc.) while each bet transfer is identified by its block-chain transaction ID.

Thanks for answering all my questions. That all seems very reasonable.

I have a couple of other concerns:

1) When you give me the address to send coins to, you state that the bet may be cancelled under certain rare circumstances, but don't explain what those would be. Why might you cancel my bet? It would suck if you accepted 99 losing bets then cancelled the one 100x winning one.

2) You state the max bet (for "even number") is 7.7 BTC. Does that change often? What if it changes between you telling me it's 7.7 BTC and my bet transaction getting a confirmation, such that by the time the 7.7 BTC is confirmed it is then over the max bet?

3) Do you do any kind of "proof of solvency"? I don't know what kind of a bankroll you need to spread a 7.7 BTC bet at evens with 0% house edge and not risk going bankrupt, but I imagine it's considerable. If someone gets very lucky, can you afford to pay them out? If so, are you willing to prove it by signing a message with the address of your cold wallet?

[Rating Place]

The bet ID identifies the bet that you ordered (event, selection, betting option, secret, etc.) while each bet transfer is identified by its block-chain transaction ID.

Thanks for answering all my questions. That all seems very reasonable.

I have a couple of other concerns:

1) When you give me the address to send coins to, you state that the bet may be cancelled under certain rare circumstances, but don't explain what those would be. Why might you cancel my bet? It would suck if you accepted 99 losing bets then cancelled the one 100x winning one.

2) You state the max bet (for "even number") is 7.7 BTC. Does that change often? What if it changes between you telling me it's 7.7 BTC and my bet transaction getting a confirmation, such that by the time the 7.7 BTC is confirmed it is then over the max bet?

3) Do you do any kind of "proof of solvency"? I don't know what kind of a bankroll you need to spread a 7.7 BTC bet at evens with 0% house edge and not risk going bankrupt, but I imagine it's considerable. If someone gets very lucky, can you afford to pay them out? If so, are you willing to prove it by signing a message with the address of your cold wallet?

If what they do is similar to the sportsbook, then you should worry. Be careful of loop holes. You lose on ties in the sportsbook in basketball and UFC. Bets also get held up for 20 minutes or more before knowing if you have a bet. While they say it's rare, it happens all the time. Their definition of rare is very loose.

[DirectBet]

The bet ID identifies the bet that you ordered (event, selection, betting option, secret, etc.) while each bet transfer is identified by its block-chain transaction ID.

Thanks for answering all my questions. That all seems very reasonable.

I have a couple of other concerns:

1) When you give me the address to send coins to, you state that the bet may be cancelled under certain rare circumstances, but don't explain what those would be. Why might you cancel my bet? It would suck if you accepted 99 losing bets then cancelled the one 100x winning one.

2) You state the max bet (for "even number") is 7.7 BTC. Does that change often? What if it changes between you telling me it's 7.7 BTC and my bet transaction getting a confirmation, such that by the time the 7.7 BTC is confirmed it is then over the max bet?

3) Do you do any kind of "proof of solvency"? I don't know what kind of a bankroll you need to spread a 7.7 BTC bet at evens with 0% house edge and not risk going bankrupt, but I imagine it's considerable. If someone gets very lucky, can you afford to pay them out? If so, are you willing to prove it by signing a message with the address of your cold wallet?

1) This is mainly applicable to sports betting and not to the Direct Dice. In Direct Dice, your bet will be rejected and refunded if you send in your bet after the secret was already revealed or if you bet more than the maximum advised.

Complete information on how we process and handle bets can be found here :

http://www.directbet.eu/Rules.cshtml

2) The maximum bet amount is static for Direct Dice and will rarely change. For sports betting, it may vary from bet to bet and from time to time and might change frequently.

In Direct Dice, if you bet more than the maximum advised your bet will be rejected and refunded regardless of the result.

3) We are well funded and never failed to pay a winning bet. We also have the option to decrease the max bet size should we be interested in reducing variance. Furthermore, payouts are issued instantly as soon as there is 1 confirmation in the network for your initial bet transfer, so if you have any concern, you can simply wait to receive your winnings before placing another bet.

[dooglus]

1) This is mainly applicable to sports betting and not to the Direct Dice. In Direct Dice, your bet will be rejected and refunded if you send in your bet after the secret was already revealed or if you bet more than the maximum advised.

Complete information on how we process and handle bets can be found here :

http://www.directbet.eu/Rules.cshtml

At what point is the secret revealed?

I read somewhere that you allow "instant verification", which I guess means you reveal the secret as soon as the deposit transaction confirms. If that's the case, can I really use the same address for multiple bets? Or is that a relic from sports betting?

What if I send multiple bets to the same address in a single transaction. Would those be settled as separate bets, with different rolls? Or how would you handle that? SatoshiDice incorporates the output number into the hashing as well as the txid, so they can process multiple bets per transaction.

2) The maximum bet amount is static for Direct Dice and will rarely change.

3) We are well funded and never failed to pay a winning bet. We also have the option to decrease the max bet size should we be interested in reducing variance. Furthermore, payouts are issued instantly as soon as there is 1 confirmation in the network for your initial bet transfer, so if you have any concern, you can simply wait to receive your winnings before placing another bet.

If you are really offering a +EV game, you can expect to attract lots of attention, and lose a lot of coins. I'm curious to know how many coins you have available to lose, and whether you are willing to offer cryptographic proof of your ownership of them.

[Rating Place]

1) This is mainly applicable to sports betting and not to the Direct Dice. In Direct Dice, your bet will be rejected and refunded if you send in your bet after the secret was already revealed or if you bet more than the maximum advised.

Complete information on how we process and handle bets can be found here :

http://www.directbet.eu/Rules.cshtml

At what point is the secret revealed?

I read somewhere that you allow "instant verification", which I guess means you reveal the secret as soon as the deposit transaction confirms. If that's the case, can I really use the same address for multiple bets? Or is that a relic from sports betting?

What if I send multiple bets to the same address in a single transaction. Would those be settled as separate bets, with different rolls? Or how would you handle that? SatoshiDice incorporates the output number into the hashing as well as the txid, so they can process multiple bets per transaction.

2) The maximum bet amount is static for Direct Dice and will rarely change.

3) We are well funded and never failed to pay a winning bet. We also have the option to decrease the max bet size should we be interested in reducing variance. Furthermore, payouts are issued instantly as soon as there is 1 confirmation in the network for your initial bet transfer, so if you have any concern, you can simply wait to receive your winnings before placing another bet.

If you are really offering a +EV game, you can expect to attract lots of attention, and lose a lot of coins. I'm curious to know how many coins you have available to lose, and whether you are willing to offer cryptographic proof of your ownership of them.

People come out of the woodwork for +ev casino games. You know what you are talking about. Back in the day guys were raping the fiat books using big bonuses for +ev games. I don't know much about casinos but 9/5 jacks or better with a bonus is still nice.

I hate to keep picking on DirectBet but something is fishy here with the dice. DirectBet has stated that they have the best bonus in the industry for their sportsbook and that's far from the truth.

[DirectBet]

At what point is the secret revealed?

You can reveal the secret any time you wish from the Bet Status page as long as you have at least one settled bet.

What if I send multiple bets to the same address in a single transaction.

This is not supported by our automated betting system and we explain it in both our Rules and FAQ.

Following is the relevant information from our Rules page :

Do not send multiple bets in the same Bitcoin, Litecoin or Dogecoin transaction. This non standard way of sending coins is not supported by our automated system. If you do that, one of your bets might be processed normally (if it's the first one in the transaction) but the others will not be processed and therefore will not confirm and we will have to refund them manually.

http://www.directbet.eu/Rules.cshtml

[dooglus]

Do not send multiple bets in the same Bitcoin, Litecoin or Dogecoin transaction. This non standard way of sending coins is not supported by our automated system. If you do that, one of your bets might be processed normally (if it's the first one in the transaction) but the others will not be processed and therefore will not confirm and we will have to refund them manually.

http://www.directbet.eu/Rules.cshtml

So in order to get a 0% house edge and to get a fair chance at winning the jackpot I need to send 100,000 separate bets of 0.01 BTC in 100,000 separate transactions, and everyone supporting the Bitcoin network by running a full node has to keep a record of those 100k transactions on their hard drive forever?

I'm beginning to see why "on blockchain" betting died out a couple of years ago.

[Josepht]

Do not send multiple bets in the same Bitcoin, Litecoin or Dogecoin transaction. This non standard way of sending coins is not supported by our automated system. If you do that, one of your bets might be processed normally (if it's the first one in the transaction) but the others will not be processed and therefore will not confirm and we will have to refund them manually.

http://www.directbet.eu/Rules.cshtml

So in order to get a 0% house edge and to get a fair chance at winning the jackpot I need to send 100,000 separate bets of 0.01 BTC in 100,000 separate transactions, and everyone supporting the Bitcoin network by running a full node has to keep a record of those 100k transactions on their hard drive forever?

I'm beginning to see why "on blockchain" betting died out a couple of years ago.

Not true. Just one bet of 1000 BTC will earn you the same amount of loyalty points as 100000 bets of 0.01 BTC.

[dooglus]

So in order to get a 0% house edge and to get a fair chance at winning the jackpot I need to send 100,000 separate bets of 0.01 BTC in 100,000 separate transactions

Not true. Just one bet of 1000 BTC will earn you the same amount of loyalty points as 100000 bets of 0.01 BTC.

You missed the part in bold.

A single bet has less than a one in a million chance of winning the jackpot. I am incentivised to split my bet up into tiny pieces to have a better chance at the jackpot.

[DirectBet]

So in order to get a 0% house edge and to get a fair chance at winning the jackpot I need to send 100,000 separate bets of 0.01 BTC in 100,000 separate transactions, and everyone supporting the Bitcoin network by running a full node has to keep a record of those 100k transactions on their hard drive forever?

I'm beginning to see why "on blockchain" betting died out a couple of years ago.

OK, but even if you take the Jackpot out of the equation, Direct Dice still offers no house edge while all other dice games typically have 1% edge.

Why bet at other dice games that have an edge on you, which means that in the long run you are guaranteed to go bankrupt and lose it all eventually, instead of betting with Direct Dice in a neutral no house edge game ?

dooglus, are you suggesting that you prefer to bet on other dice games and lose money in order to save up from some transactions entering the block chain ?

[dooglus]

OK, but even if you take the Jackpot out of the equation, Direct Dice still offers no house edge while all other dice games typically have 1% edge.

Why bet at other dice games that have an edge on you, which means that in the long run you are guaranteed to go bankrupt and lose it all eventually, instead of betting with Direct Dice in a neutral no house edge game ?

dooglus, are you suggesting that you prefer to bet on other dice games and lose money in order to save up from some transactions entering the block chain ?

I like to be able to bet quickly, and get instant feedback, like this:



There's no way that could happen using old-fashioned on-chain betting. Especially if you wait for a confirmation on each bet. Those 5 bets would have taken roughly an hour to run on your site, whereas I got the whole tedious process over within just 14 seconds.