American Health care: $10,169 for a blood test?

[TheButterZone]

This is how the greedy insurance companies are squeezing the hard working American citizen. Forget about the blood test, every single type of medical treatment in the US costs as much as 500 to 1,000% more than what it costs in the EU. A surgery which costs $100,000 in the US can be performed for just $15,000 in Belgium, or $10,000 in Russia. Only one solution for this. Nationalize the healthcare sector.

You also have to wait a lot longer to get the same procedures, sometimes resulting in a surgery being unnecessary because the patient has either died or the problem has become so severe that surgery would not be effective.

I don't think you understand that if you make these things cost less unilaterally then the people who perform these services will ultimately get paid less which would mean less people would enter the field and those that do enter the medical field will be less qualified.

Don't go to board UNcertified doctors.

[1715175440]

1715175440

[Matze]

This is how the greedy insurance companies are squeezing the hard working American citizen. Forget about the blood test, every single type of medical treatment in the US costs as much as 500 to 1,000% more than what it costs in the EU. A surgery which costs $100,000 in the US can be performed for just $15,000 in Belgium, or $10,000 in Russia. Only one solution for this. Nationalize the healthcare sector.

You also have to wait a lot longer to get the same procedures, sometimes resulting in a surgery being unnecessary because the patient has either died or the problem has become so severe that surgery would not be effective.

I don't think you understand that if you make these things cost less unilaterally then the people who perform these services will ultimately get paid less which would mean less people would enter the field and those that do enter the medical field will be less qualified.

Don't go to board UNcertified doctors.

If someone spends a decade in post-secondary school becoming a doctor they are going to expect to earn a lot, or else they will not spend this amount of time working on this goal.

[bryant.coleman]

You also have to wait a lot longer to get the same procedures, sometimes resulting in a surgery being unnecessary because the patient has either died or the problem has become so severe that surgery would not be effective.

No. May be that is the case in Russia, but in the EU nations there is absolutely no delay.

I don't think you understand that if you make these things cost less unilaterally then the people who perform these services will ultimately get paid less which would mean less people would enter the field and those that do enter the medical field will be less qualified.

Doctors in the EU earn almost as much as their counterparts in the US. The difference is that the middlemen don't walk away with a significant amount of money, as it happens in the US.

The second part of your argument is not supported by facts. Russia, which is having more doctors per capita than the US pays only around $1,000 to $5,000 per month for its doctors, while those in the US are paid up to $40,000 per month. And still, there is a shortage of medical seats in Russia and the demand is lower in the US. But off course, medical education in Russia costs only 1/20th of the same in the US.

[DrG]

This is how the greedy insurance companies are squeezing the hard working American citizen. Forget about the blood test, every single type of medical treatment in the US costs as much as 500 to 1,000% more than what it costs in the EU. A surgery which costs $100,000 in the US can be performed for just $15,000 in Belgium, or $10,000 in Russia. Only one solution for this. Nationalize the healthcare sector.

You also have to wait a lot longer to get the same procedures, sometimes resulting in a surgery being unnecessary because the patient has either died or the problem has become so severe that surgery would not be effective.

I don't think you understand that if you make these things cost less unilaterally then the people who perform these services will ultimately get paid less which would mean less people would enter the field and those that do enter the medical field will be less qualified.

Don't go to board UNcertified doctors.

5 years ago I would have agreed with you.

I am boarded and am re-certifying my boards this year.  It's basically extortion by the medical establishment and doesn't really focus on ensuring physicians meet any standards of care since lot of the stuff in the boards is stuff that is not pertinent to real world application.

I would recommend having a malpractice attorney do a little digging for $50 or $100 and they can find out quickly what suits any physicians has been involved in.  State Medical Boards are pretty much useless.  Hire a private attorney if you want to know a physician's history.

The only reason I am retaking my boards is because I need to be boarded to keep my license in CA.  Otherwise the boards are just a scam.  A physician who keeps up with modern CMEs and attends meetings at the local hospital will be more up to date that one who just passes test after test without any meaningful understanding of population and demographic changes.

[Whitehouse]

American healthcare is a joke. Healthcare should be fundamental human right and free for everyone. Nobody should be paying for healthcare in a civilizied society.

[Timetwister]

This is how the greedy insurance companies are squeezing the hard working American citizen. Forget about the blood test, every single type of medical treatment in the US costs as much as 500 to 1,000% more than what it costs in the EU. A surgery which costs $100,000 in the US can be performed for just $15,000 in Belgium, or $10,000 in Russia. Only one solution for this. Nationalize the healthcare sector.

What happens in USA is precisely because of government interventionism. They subsidize health care by giving tax incentives.

[Kluge]

These are hospitals clearly taking advantage. A lot of people don't have the luxury of shopping around for the best price hospital or what if it's an emergency?

It's unfortunate how for-profit these medical institutions are instead of helping those that are sick/injured.

Maybe, but I think people should just visit surrounding areas when they have an issue to get an idea of what and how different places charge. I've found it's a downright stupid idea to ever go to a hospital for anything except maybe cancer or organ failure. Every hospital and hospital-owned clinic I've gone to charges obscene amounts for everything. There are independent clinics here in Nowhere, though, which charge a very reasonable amount - less than my independent GP's office, actually. They bring in hospital doctors on rotation who do clinic duty more as a public service, though they're paid and the clinic's self-funded. A sprained ankle cost ~$80, while at a hospital, this is ~$1200. An ancient can of varnish exploded in my hands when helping a relative move, and some got into my eyes, but the clinic gave me a, frankly, generous invoice for $20 for a thorough examination. I have BCBS insurance, but the co-pay and deductibles after it's known I'm using insurance are higher than just paying everything in cash in most instances, and it's still much cheaper to go to the clinic paying in cash than the hospital with insurance even for bigger issues. In general, I'd guess if someone's organs are all still contained within themselves, they're conscious, and they don't need extremely complicated or rare treatment, they should probably avoid hospitals if possible and'll be rewarded with a bill for pennies on the dollar, relatively. OTOH, the hospital around here publishes the number of uninsured people who skipped out on their bill in annual reports they mail to all residents like it's part of their community service, so... *shrug*

In the varnish case, too, I was actually fully reimbursed by my relative's home insurance company quickly and with no fuss (they insisted I file a claim since they're moving, anyway).

[Timetwister]

American healthcare is a joke. Healthcare should be fundamental human right and free for everyone. Nobody should be paying for healthcare in a civilizied society.

Free? How?. Do you want doctors to work for free, as slaves? Or with "free" do you mean charging others for it, no matter if they agree or not?

[murraypaul]

American healthcare is a joke. Healthcare should be fundamental human right and free for everyone. Nobody should be paying for healthcare in a civilizied society.

Free? How?. Do you want doctors to work for free, as slaves? Or with "free" do you mean charging others for it, no matter if they agree or not?

In most European countries, Healthcare is viewed as an essential public service, alongside the police and fire brigade, coastguard and military, etc..
All these are paid for through taxes, not at point of use.
Do you think you should have to pay for police services? How about fire services?

[Timetwister]

American healthcare is a joke. Healthcare should be fundamental human right and free for everyone. Nobody should be paying for healthcare in a civilizied society.

Free? How?. Do you want doctors to work for free, as slaves? Or with "free" do you mean charging others for it, no matter if they agree or not?

In most European countries, Healthcare is viewed as an essential public service, alongside the police and fire brigade, coastguard and military, etc..
All these are paid for through taxes, not at point of use.
Do you think you should have to pay for police services? How about fire services?

If they are paid by taxes, they aren't free. Do you think that we aren't already paying for police and fire services? We are, but instead of paying for them voluntarily, and only for what we spend, the government steals us to pay for everyone.

[Kluge]

American healthcare is a joke. Healthcare should be fundamental human right and free for everyone. Nobody should be paying for healthcare in a civilizied society.

Free? How?. Do you want doctors to work for free, as slaves? Or with "free" do you mean charging others for it, no matter if they agree or not?

In most European countries, Healthcare is viewed as an essential public service, alongside the police and fire brigade, coastguard and military, etc..
All these are paid for through taxes, not at point of use.
Do you think you should have to pay for police services? How about fire services?

The US does this in some areas since not all common public service are nationalized, particularly with fire-fighting service. In some areas, people effectively pay a kind of "fire insurance," and if you pay, firefighters will fight fires threatening your house. If you don't, they might bring a truck to sit around and make sure it doesn't spread to fine, paying customers. You could pay for "fire insurance" or pay at point of use. Some states will reimburse local property taxes for the poor (or those who otherwise have little to no state income tax liability) which usually pay for these kinds of services, but many don't, and in cases where they don't, these are non-progressive fees, which are pretty unusual in the US.

Anyway -- since none of this is nationalized and the US has very rich and very poor communities which rarely integrate too much, you will find lesser public service in rural, and especially poor areas. I'm assuming this is relevant to point out since I'm thinking you say taxes and mean them to be what're effectively progressive annual fees, so the poor can expect a certain standard of public service. It's very nuanced in the US, varying state by state and town by town (and county by county, too, if the town isn't independent -- and some towns will form financial agreements with each other, so maybe two or a few towns will come together to fund a public school system which serves all of their towns), but the US does federally fund a small portion of most local public services, and many states try to enforce minimum standards of funding regardless of local wealth, too... but no local government could operate any kind of fire or police force, or have any kind of meaningful education system on federal or even state dollars alone, so it does still largely come down to whether or not the people of a town are poor or wealthy with regards to the quality of their public services; very, very few public services in the US are particularly "progressive."

ETA: As an aside - everything looks more unified and federalized than it really is because federal and state block grant systems are functionally like systemic government-to-government blackmail. They hold funds hostage until community services do this, this, and that -- and the federal government will hold funds hostage from states until they do this, this, and that. Nobody wants to lose the money, of course, even if it doesn't make up the bulk of revenues, so they go along with it.

[Whitehouse]

American healthcare is a joke. Healthcare should be fundamental human right and free for everyone. Nobody should be paying for healthcare in a civilizied society.

Free? How?. Do you want doctors to work for free, as slaves? Or with "free" do you mean charging others for it, no matter if they agree or not?

I believe a socialistic system is the right way for such services as healthcare/emergency services and water etc. People definitely shouldnt be paying 10k for a bloodtest. How can anyone actually be expected to pay that much?

[Timetwister]

American healthcare is a joke. Healthcare should be fundamental human right and free for everyone. Nobody should be paying for healthcare in a civilizied society.

Free? How?. Do you want doctors to work for free, as slaves? Or with "free" do you mean charging others for it, no matter if they agree or not?

I believe a socialistic system is the right way for such services as healthcare/emergency services and water etc. People definitely shouldnt be paying 10k for a bloodtest. How can anyone actually be expected to pay that much?

Why do you believe that? Why do you have to pay for others expenses?

How do you think public services are paid?

[Bonam]

$10,169 for a lipid test seems absurd. I can't imagine any insurance company just paying that without looking into the charge.

[DrG]

American healthcare is a joke. Healthcare should be fundamental human right and free for everyone. Nobody should be paying for healthcare in a civilizied society.

Free? How?. Do you want doctors to work for free, as slaves? Or with "free" do you mean charging others for it, no matter if they agree or not?

I believe a socialistic system is the right way for such services as healthcare/emergency services and water etc. People definitely shouldnt be paying 10k for a bloodtest. How can anyone actually be expected to pay that much?

People do not pay $10k for the test.  Insurance companies are billed $10k for the test.  The policy holder gets stuck holding the bag if the insurance doesn't pay.

personally I would love to see insurance companies destroyed.  I love capitalism.  I hate crony capitalism where people can bribe officials to make sure their business suceeds while others fail.

If you walked into Quest or Labcorp and offered $25 cash they would draw the lipid panel.  Or you can just buy the mail in kits.

If America went full socialized the cheating companies will sleep with the politicians legally and have monopolistic ownership over healthcare industries - only a tad bit worse than what we have now.

[master sato]

I am curious if that law was lobbied for by healthcare providers to protect their own profits. I also take issue with the government pandering to such special interests, however, that is a whole separate debate

[anglo byte]

As long as half of Americans think that any government intervention in healthcare is socialism we will never be able to even have an open honest conversation regarding universal healthcare. Obamacare is a pathetic compromise that does almost nothing to improve our current healthcare system

[bryant.coleman]

Check this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/post/how-much-does-an-appendectomy-cost-somewhere-between-1529-and-186955/2012/04/24/gIQAMeKMeT_blog.html

At one hospital in California, an appendectomy costs $186,955. This can be done for $1,500 in Belarus or $3,000 in Thailand.

Appendectomy is a very simple surgical procedure and it takes less than 90 minutes to perform it. The average hospital stay is 2 to 3 days. Now the question is why the hospitals are charging $200K for just 90 minutes of medical procedure?

[Timetwister]

Check this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/post/how-much-does-an-appendectomy-cost-somewhere-between-1529-and-186955/2012/04/24/gIQAMeKMeT_blog.html

At one hospital in California, an appendectomy costs $186,955. This can be done for $1,500 in Belarus or $3,000 in Thailand.

Appendectomy is a very simple surgical procedure and it takes less than 90 minutes to perform it. The average hospital stay is 2 to 3 days. Now the question is why the hospitals are charging $200K for just 90 minutes of medical procedure?

Because the customer isn't directly paying it.

[DrG]

I am curious if that law was lobbied for by healthcare providers to protect their own profits. I also take issue with the government pandering to such special interests, however, that is a whole separate debate

AARP lobbied for the ACA (supposedly on behalf of seniors) to the tune of $41.6 million dollars

AARP sells secondary insurance that amends Medicare coverage.

AARP sells their coverage through United Health - one of the biggest insurers in the US.

Obama and his cabinet met with AARP on 24 occasions while the ACA was being debated.  He never met with 1 single non-lobbyist employed physician.

ACA passes and AARP is not rolling in kickbacks from selling UH policies as AARP policies - but it's all legitimate