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Author Topic: Using a 220V wash machine outlet for power.....  (Read 9770 times)
yochdog
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March 29, 2012, 02:06:09 PM
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So I have this fantastic utility room with lots of space, great ventilation, and a big ole 220 volt outlet. 

I would like to set-up some miners in this room, but I want it to fit in seemlessly with my wife's lovely (and massive) front loading spaceship looking washer and dryer. 

Anyone have some experience splitting the power outlet so multiple appliances can be hooked up?  I really dont want to have to switch back and forth everytime we have to do laundry. 

It would be great to run the miners off of the same outlet without doing too much re-modelling!

Any advice would be great. 

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pirateat40
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March 29, 2012, 02:11:00 PM
 #2

So I have this fantastic utility room with lots of space, great ventilation, and a big ole 220 volt outlet. 

I would like to set-up some miners in this room, but I want it to fit in seemlessly with my wife's lovely (and massive) front loading spaceship looking washer and dryer. 

Anyone have some experience splitting the power outlet so multiple appliances can be hooked up?  I really dont want to have to switch back and forth everytime we have to do laundry. 

It would be great to run the miners off of the same outlet without doing too much re-modelling!

Any advice would be great. 

LOL, switch back and forth... Do you know how much power that dryer uses?  You might be able to run maybe 1 card with it running. Sad

yochdog
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March 29, 2012, 02:18:03 PM
 #3

So I have this fantastic utility room with lots of space, great ventilation, and a big ole 220 volt outlet. 

I would like to set-up some miners in this room, but I want it to fit in seemlessly with my wife's lovely (and massive) front loading spaceship looking washer and dryer. 

Anyone have some experience splitting the power outlet so multiple appliances can be hooked up?  I really dont want to have to switch back and forth everytime we have to do laundry. 

It would be great to run the miners off of the same outlet without doing too much re-modelling!

Any advice would be great. 

LOL, switch back and forth... Do you know how much power that dryer uses?  You might be able to run maybe 1 card with it running. Sad

I have the insanely efficient stuff.....the dryer might use 1800 watts, 2000 at most. 

I believe the 220V is on a 40 AMP breaker, so shouldn't there be PLENTY of headroom for some miners? 

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March 29, 2012, 02:43:25 PM
 #4

So I have this fantastic utility room with lots of space, great ventilation, and a big ole 220 volt outlet. 

I would like to set-up some miners in this room, but I want it to fit in seemlessly with my wife's lovely (and massive) front loading spaceship looking washer and dryer. 

Anyone have some experience splitting the power outlet so multiple appliances can be hooked up?  I really dont want to have to switch back and forth everytime we have to do laundry. 

It would be great to run the miners off of the same outlet without doing too much re-modelling!

Any advice would be great. 

LOL, switch back and forth... Do you know how much power that dryer uses?  You might be able to run maybe 1 card with it running. Sad

I have the insanely efficient stuff.....the dryer might use 1800 watts, 2000 at most. 

I believe the 220V is on a 40 AMP breaker, so shouldn't there be PLENTY of headroom for some miners? 
There might be - but Code requires a dedicated circuit for a reason.

See if you can find the nameplate rating of the device, just to be sure of the wattage.
Most dryers use a capacitor-start motor that runs at a constant speed - such motors make all kind of nasty electrical anomalies when they start, not to mention a large additional power draw. The motor might take up to 400% of its rating during the few seconds that it is starting, and that would trip the breaker if you removed the additional overhead allowance that is already built into the circuit by running some rigs on it. Now obviously, the motor isn't the main load - the main load is the resistive heater inside, which switches on and off to maintain different temperatures.

If we assumed that a 40 amp 220v circuit could supply approximately 7KW of power (after derating), and if we assumed that the dryer was 2KW like you mentioned, you should also assume spikes of up to 3KW during the motor start phase for a few seconds. This leaves you with potentially 4KW of "spare" power. You might be able to open the power outlet and add some #8 wire to extend the branch circuit to another plug. However if you do this, you really need to get a PDU with its own circuit breakers built in, otherwise you risk fire from under-rated wiring. I wouldn't want to suggest more than 20 amps of 220v coming off of the PDU in this case, since it isn't dedicated.

Finally, if you do this, make sure you have absolutely top-shelf PSUs. Since they will be so electrically close to the nasty power spikes caused by the motor starting, they will be more susceptible to failure.

20 amps at 220v should allow you to run several rigs. Good luck, and don't let the inspector see it! Grin

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March 29, 2012, 02:46:18 PM
 #5

So I have this fantastic utility room with lots of space, great ventilation, and a big ole 220 volt outlet. 

I would like to set-up some miners in this room, but I want it to fit in seemlessly with my wife's lovely (and massive) front loading spaceship looking washer and dryer. 

Anyone have some experience splitting the power outlet so multiple appliances can be hooked up?  I really dont want to have to switch back and forth everytime we have to do laundry. 

It would be great to run the miners off of the same outlet without doing too much re-modelling!

Any advice would be great. 

LOL, switch back and forth... Do you know how much power that dryer uses?  You might be able to run maybe 1 card with it running. Sad

I have the insanely efficient stuff.....the dryer might use 1800 watts, 2000 at most. 

I believe the 220V is on a 40 AMP breaker, so shouldn't there be PLENTY of headroom for some miners? 
There might be - but Code requires a dedicated circuit for a reason.

See if you can find the nameplate rating of the device, just to be sure of the wattage.
Most dryers use a capacitor-start motor that runs at a constant speed - such motors make all kind of nasty electrical anomalies when they start, not to mention a large additional power draw. The motor might take up to 400% of its rating during the few seconds that it is starting, and that would trip the breaker if you removed the additional overhead allowance that is already built into the circuit by running some rigs on it. Now obviously, the motor isn't the main load - the main load is the resistive heater inside, which switches on and off to maintain different temperatures.

If we assumed that a 40 amp 220v circuit could supply approximately 7KW of power (after derating), and if we assumed that the dryer was 2KW like you mentioned, you should also assume spikes of up to 3KW during the motor start phase for a few seconds. This leaves you with potentially 4KW of "spare" power. You might be able to open the power outlet and add some #8 wire to extend the branch circuit to another plug. However if you do this, you really need to get a PDU with its own circuit breakers built in, otherwise you risk fire from under-rated wiring. I wouldn't want to suggest more than 20 amps of 220v coming off of the PDU in this case, since it isn't dedicated.

Finally, if you do this, make sure you have absolutely top-shelf PSUs. Since they will be so electrically close to the nasty power spikes caused by the motor starting, they will be more susceptible to failure.

20 amps at 220v should allow you to run several rigs. Good luck, and don't let the inspector see it! Grin

Thanks!  The advice is appreciated!

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March 29, 2012, 02:54:25 PM
 #6

So I have this fantastic utility room with lots of space, great ventilation, and a big ole 220 volt outlet. 

I would like to set-up some miners in this room, but I want it to fit in seemlessly with my wife's lovely (and massive) front loading spaceship looking washer and dryer. 

Anyone have some experience splitting the power outlet so multiple appliances can be hooked up?  I really dont want to have to switch back and forth everytime we have to do laundry. 

It would be great to run the miners off of the same outlet without doing too much re-modelling!

Any advice would be great. 

LOL, switch back and forth... Do you know how much power that dryer uses?  You might be able to run maybe 1 card with it running. Sad

I have the insanely efficient stuff.....the dryer might use 1800 watts, 2000 at most. 

I believe the 220V is on a 40 AMP breaker, so shouldn't there be PLENTY of headroom for some miners? 
There might be - but Code requires a dedicated circuit for a reason.

See if you can find the nameplate rating of the device, just to be sure of the wattage.
Most dryers use a capacitor-start motor that runs at a constant speed - such motors make all kind of nasty electrical anomalies when they start, not to mention a large additional power draw. The motor might take up to 400% of its rating during the few seconds that it is starting, and that would trip the breaker if you removed the additional overhead allowance that is already built into the circuit by running some rigs on it. Now obviously, the motor isn't the main load - the main load is the resistive heater inside, which switches on and off to maintain different temperatures.

If we assumed that a 40 amp 220v circuit could supply approximately 7KW of power (after derating), and if we assumed that the dryer was 2KW like you mentioned, you should also assume spikes of up to 3KW during the motor start phase for a few seconds. This leaves you with potentially 4KW of "spare" power. You might be able to open the power outlet and add some #8 wire to extend the branch circuit to another plug. However if you do this, you really need to get a PDU with its own circuit breakers built in, otherwise you risk fire from under-rated wiring. I wouldn't want to suggest more than 20 amps of 220v coming off of the PDU in this case, since it isn't dedicated.

Finally, if you do this, make sure you have absolutely top-shelf PSUs. Since they will be so electrically close to the nasty power spikes caused by the motor starting, they will be more susceptible to failure.

20 amps at 220v should allow you to run several rigs. Good luck, and don't let the inspector see it! Grin

If he's got a fancy front-loader that's a high efficiency model, it's actually pretty likely that it's running a brushless DC or PMAC motor. The nicer white goods have been moving in that direction for awhile, I don't think many new front loaders have been made with shaded pole motors.

What's the model of the dryer, yochdog?
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March 29, 2012, 02:55:58 PM
 #7

So I have this fantastic utility room with lots of space, great ventilation, and a big ole 220 volt outlet. 

I would like to set-up some miners in this room, but I want it to fit in seemlessly with my wife's lovely (and massive) front loading spaceship looking washer and dryer. 

Anyone have some experience splitting the power outlet so multiple appliances can be hooked up?  I really dont want to have to switch back and forth everytime we have to do laundry. 

It would be great to run the miners off of the same outlet without doing too much re-modelling!

Any advice would be great. 

LOL, switch back and forth... Do you know how much power that dryer uses?  You might be able to run maybe 1 card with it running. Sad

I have the insanely efficient stuff.....the dryer might use 1800 watts, 2000 at most. 

I believe the 220V is on a 40 AMP breaker, so shouldn't there be PLENTY of headroom for some miners? 
There might be - but Code requires a dedicated circuit for a reason.

See if you can find the nameplate rating of the device, just to be sure of the wattage.
Most dryers use a capacitor-start motor that runs at a constant speed - such motors make all kind of nasty electrical anomalies when they start, not to mention a large additional power draw. The motor might take up to 400% of its rating during the few seconds that it is starting, and that would trip the breaker if you removed the additional overhead allowance that is already built into the circuit by running some rigs on it. Now obviously, the motor isn't the main load - the main load is the resistive heater inside, which switches on and off to maintain different temperatures.

If we assumed that a 40 amp 220v circuit could supply approximately 7KW of power (after derating), and if we assumed that the dryer was 2KW like you mentioned, you should also assume spikes of up to 3KW during the motor start phase for a few seconds. This leaves you with potentially 4KW of "spare" power. You might be able to open the power outlet and add some #8 wire to extend the branch circuit to another plug. However if you do this, you really need to get a PDU with its own circuit breakers built in, otherwise you risk fire from under-rated wiring. I wouldn't want to suggest more than 20 amps of 220v coming off of the PDU in this case, since it isn't dedicated.

Finally, if you do this, make sure you have absolutely top-shelf PSUs. Since they will be so electrically close to the nasty power spikes caused by the motor starting, they will be more susceptible to failure.

20 amps at 220v should allow you to run several rigs. Good luck, and don't let the inspector see it! Grin

If he's got a fancy front-loader that's a high efficiency model, it's actually pretty likely that it's running a brushless DC or PMAC motor. The nicer white goods have been moving in that direction for awhile, I don't think many new front loaders have been made with shaded pole motors.

What's the model of the dryer, yochdog?

I will have to get that info tonight.....It is a Samsung, about a year old. 

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March 29, 2012, 03:16:57 PM
 #8

As rjk indicated it won't be to code but it can be done.

First option: wiring to allow simultaneous use (dryer & miner)
To do that you really need to get some exact measurements.
a) peak current at startup
b) current when running
c) voltage at outlet
d) verify breaker is 40A

You don't need to derate the non-continual load (dryer).  So if the dryer pulled 3KW peak you could put 230 * 40 = 9.2KW - 3KW = 6.2 KW of miners on the circuit.  It won't be to code though.  A 30A (derated to 24A) PDU would work fine.  How much you can use depends on the EXACT measurements.  

Don't even think about doing this if you don't want to take real measurements.  You must know the voltage and current at the outlet.  Trying to guestimate it is a good way to waste your time only to find out you don't have the wattage available that you think you do.  Maybe your "efficient" dryer might be efficient because it uses more heating coils and recirculates the air so it pulls more not less than another dryer.  If you don't want to measure then just stop now.

Second option: switch between dryer & miner.

You could install a manual transfer switch so that either the plug for the miners or the plug for the dryer is energized at one time.  The switch prevents both from being used simultaneously so you have no overcurrent issues.  You would also want to use a PDU to connect all the miners to a single outlet to simplify the wiring.  If the miners are set to start after AC loss you would simply turn the switch to "dryer" (miners lose power), use the dryer, then turn the switch to "miners", and the miners power on automatically, boot, and start mining.

You want to make sure the switch has higher rated voltage than the breaker and either load.  On edit: you indicated 40A but it may actually be 30A.

http://www.solar-electric.com/miso60amp240.html

Normally transfer switches are used to switch the source (i.e. utility or generator) but electricity doesn't care about direction.  The transfer switch would allow only one to be used at one time.

So currently:
Code:
breaker 40A ---(house wiring)---> 40A outlet --(plug & cord)-- dryer

With transfer switch
Code:
                                                     | ------------> 30A outlet* -------- dryer
                                                      |
breaker 40A ---(house wiring)---> transfer switch
                                                      |
                                                      |------------>  30A outlet* -------- PDU ---------- (miners)

* dryer outlet is actually 120V/240V combined it may be either 3 or 4 wire (4 wire is newer/safer).  Miners would be connected to a NEMA L6-30R outlet (30A @ 240V only).

Now nothing you do will make this code compliant but if it were me I would feel better with the transfer switch.  No the possibility of pulling >40A through the circuit.

Third option:[/u]
Just run a new line to the utility room and install a dedicated outlet.
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March 29, 2012, 03:25:08 PM
 #9

Usually dryer outlets are 30A,  I don't think I've ever seen one that is 40A.
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Gerald Davis


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March 29, 2012, 03:27:10 PM
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Usually dryer outlets are 30A,  I don't think I've ever seen one that is 40A.

Good point you likely are right.

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March 29, 2012, 03:27:43 PM
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If it's an electric dryer, I would be shocked if it actually used 2kW. It would take forever to dry a load at that power. I would expect it to be double that. We'll have a better idea when he gives the model number, but expect it to be closer to 5kW than 2kW when it's on high.


Yochdog, is your dryer close by your panel? If you're reasonably handy, spend the $40 or whatever it is for a permit and install another 240V circuit yourself. If you don't feel comfortable doing that, you should have no problem finding an apprentice electrician doing a little extra work on the side who'd install the parts for you for $50. Even hiring someone might cost under $200 including all the parts, and it'd be done correctly.
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March 29, 2012, 06:38:07 PM
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If it's an electric dryer, I would be shocked if it actually used 2kW. It would take forever to dry a load at that power.
Well, about 2 hours with 1150W would be state of the art right now. At least for a german dryer.
But I suspect that his dryer is a lot bigger.

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March 29, 2012, 07:21:09 PM
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If it's an electric dryer, I would be shocked if it actually used 2kW. It would take forever to dry a load at that power.
Well, about 2 hours with 1150W would be state of the art right now. At least for a german dryer.
But I suspect that his dryer is a lot bigger.

Sorry, my German is non-existent and google isn't helping. Where on there does it say it draws 1150W?
Also, 2 hours is a really long drying time. Tongue

For reference, I looked at Samsung's page, and a dryer like this one has a 5300W heating element. Most cycles might not run the element full out, but I wouldn't be shocked if current draw got close to 25A while it's heating on a fast dry cycle.
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March 29, 2012, 08:18:49 PM
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So I have this fantastic utility room with lots of space, great ventilation, and a big ole 220 volt outlet. 

I would like to set-up some miners in this room, but I want it to fit in seemlessly with my wife's lovely (and massive) front loading spaceship looking washer and dryer. 

Anyone have some experience splitting the power outlet so multiple appliances can be hooked up?  I really dont want to have to switch back and forth everytime we have to do laundry. 

It would be great to run the miners off of the same outlet without doing too much re-modelling!

Any advice would be great. 

Tell her the outlet is yours now then direct all the heat from the gpus thru ducting to a drying rack.  Hang the clothes on the rack, sell the dryer.
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March 29, 2012, 08:44:23 PM
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Usually dryer outlets are 30A,  I don't think I've ever seen one that is 40A.

Good point you likely are right.



Great pics D/T Grin.If he has very new dryer it should have the 4 prong 220 outlet,NEMA 14-30,unless the whip was changed to connect to the old 3 prong outlet,NEMA 10-30.Your main concern is wire gauge.I don't know how many watts your planning on hooking up to this circuit with a dryer too,personally I wouldn't recommend it.

I install A/C units for a living,my main concern is wire gauge.On a 5 ton Air Handler with a 10kw electric heat option,6 gauge wire is preferred,8 gauge will work(not recommended by code).Thats for a 60 amp circuit,usually draws 48-52 amps max(even on start up,elements are seperated into 4 sections & come on incrementaly,blower only draws 4-5 amp on start up & comes on first).

Mr Teal's recommendation of a dedicated circuit is worth following  Wink

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March 29, 2012, 08:59:53 PM
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So I have this fantastic utility room with lots of space, great ventilation, and a big ole 220 volt outlet. 

I would like to set-up some miners in this room, but I want it to fit in seemlessly with my wife's lovely (and massive) front loading spaceship looking washer and dryer. 

Anyone have some experience splitting the power outlet so multiple appliances can be hooked up?  I really dont want to have to switch back and forth everytime we have to do laundry. 

It would be great to run the miners off of the same outlet without doing too much re-modelling!

Any advice would be great. 

Tell her the outlet is yours now then direct all the heat from the gpus thru ducting to a drying rack.  Hang the clothes on the rack, sell the dryer.

LOL.  For the win. 

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March 29, 2012, 09:04:26 PM
 #17

So I have this fantastic utility room with lots of space, great ventilation, and a big ole 220 volt outlet. 

I would like to set-up some miners in this room, but I want it to fit in seemlessly with my wife's lovely (and massive) front loading spaceship looking washer and dryer. 

Anyone have some experience splitting the power outlet so multiple appliances can be hooked up?  I really dont want to have to switch back and forth everytime we have to do laundry. 

It would be great to run the miners off of the same outlet without doing too much re-modelling!

Any advice would be great. 

LOL, switch back and forth... Do you know how much power that dryer uses?  You might be able to run maybe 1 card with it running. Sad

I have the insanely efficient stuff.....the dryer might use 1800 watts, 2000 at most. 

I believe the 220V is on a 40 AMP breaker, so shouldn't there be PLENTY of headroom for some miners? 

I doubt the DRYER is all that insanely efficient.  It is your washer that is probably energy savings (through less water use) but the electric dryer has not progressed much in the USA other then looks. The driving motor does not use much power, it is mostly the heating element   


I doubt you have more then 50%  spare power from that outlet with the dryer on, probably much less.


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March 29, 2012, 09:33:51 PM
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How about getting a gas dryer??? The outlet & all its glory will be yours Grin

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March 29, 2012, 11:01:08 PM
 #19

So I have this fantastic utility room with lots of space, great ventilation, and a big ole 220 volt outlet. 

I would like to set-up some miners in this room, but I want it to fit in seemlessly with my wife's lovely (and massive) front loading spaceship looking washer and dryer. 

Anyone have some experience splitting the power outlet so multiple appliances can be hooked up?  I really dont want to have to switch back and forth everytime we have to do laundry. 

It would be great to run the miners off of the same outlet without doing too much re-modelling!

Any advice would be great. 

LOL, switch back and forth... Do you know how much power that dryer uses?  You might be able to run maybe 1 card with it running. Sad

I have the insanely efficient stuff.....the dryer might use 1800 watts, 2000 at most. 

I believe the 220V is on a 40 AMP breaker, so shouldn't there be PLENTY of headroom for some miners? 

I doubt the DRYER is all that insanely efficient.  It is your washer that is probably energy savings (through less water use) but the electric dryer has not progressed much in the USA other then looks. The driving motor does not use much power, it is mostly the heating element   


I doubt you have more then 50%  spare power from that outlet with the dryer on, probably much less.

What would be the metric for judging efficiency of a dryer, I wonder? Would you take say 10kg of water as the baseline, and calculate the energy used to dry clothes wetted with 10kg of room temperature water vs the enthalpy of vaporization of the same amount of water?

Also, the gas dryer is a great idea if you already have a gas line in your house. It would be much less costly to run than an electric dryer, plus it would free up your 240V plug. Just remember to be sitting when the gas fitter gives you the quote to run a line. Smiley
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March 29, 2012, 11:12:24 PM
 #20


Also, the gas dryer is a great idea if you already have a gas line in your house. It would be much less costly to run than an electric dryer, plus it would free up your 240V plug. Just remember to be sitting when the gas fitter gives you the quote to run a line. Smiley

Run it yourself Wink
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