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Author Topic: [GLBSE] [Stochastically.com] - Dividend Returns - updated 12 times a day.  (Read 19275 times)
Sukrim
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April 15, 2012, 02:51:34 PM
 #21

Maybe the following sheet can help you (or others) for monthly dividend returns.
It parses any asset on GLBSE that you enter automatically and fills in the data for 2012. "Test dividends" by some assets are (of course) not deducted (there is no way of marking them as such) and I didn't implement comparison of multiple assets or a trade history (for ROI), as Nefario said "GLBSE 2.1" with an API might already be around the corner.

Still I hope it can be of some use at least, feel free to copy/improve it!

Viewing rights only (I don't want to deal with vandalism), please copy the contents/formulas to a spreadsheet you own yourself.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjDrki5tpdL3dC1VdGE5VXZBb3pUUnR3ZXcyWUNtT3c

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jamesg
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April 15, 2012, 02:55:31 PM
 #22

Hi stochastic,

I will be paying dividends on the 16th. I would appreciate being added to your weekly update. Please PM me if you need anything from me.

Best,
gigavps
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April 15, 2012, 03:10:45 PM
 #23

Hi stochastic,

I will be paying dividends on the 16th. I would appreciate being added to your weekly update. Please PM me if you need anything from me.

Best,
gigavps

Yes I will add it.  I will keep an eye for it.  I go through the assets each week to look for which have paid.

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April 15, 2012, 04:03:01 PM
 #24

YABMC as well  Wink

Dividend will be paid soon after diff change (~April 26).

Thanks in advance stochastic!

If you need anything I am just a PM away...

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April 15, 2012, 10:03:25 PM
 #25

don't suppose you could add IPO price, IPO-ROI, and cumulative dividend payments (either in total or since GLBSE 2.0 started, because presumably there may not be that information for some assets.)

This might give more informed opinion on whether to join particular assets early at preIPO/IPO, or wait a few weeks until it settles.

marked

Does anyone know the IPO prices of some for some of these assets?

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April 16, 2012, 12:37:55 AM
 #26

don't suppose you could add IPO price, IPO-ROI, and cumulative dividend payments (either in total or since GLBSE 2.0 started, because presumably there may not be that information for some assets.)

This might give more informed opinion on whether to join particular assets early at preIPO/IPO, or wait a few weeks until it settles.

marked

Does anyone know the IPO prices of some for some of these assets?

Similar type of thread here -- they are digging into IPO pricing as well ==> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=76768.0

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April 16, 2012, 02:25:26 AM
 #27

Cool. I'll be watching this.

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April 16, 2012, 04:05:41 AM
 #28

Great idea, stochastic.

About the week coupon returns: if you add a column for a four week moving average of the weekly returns, a better comparison can be drawn between the different bonds - as long as each bond pays out at least once per difficulty period.

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April 16, 2012, 04:33:35 AM
 #29

Great idea, stochastic.

About the week coupon returns: if you add a column for a four week moving average of the weekly returns, a better comparison can be drawn between the different bonds - as long as each bond pays out at least once per difficulty period.

Nice idea.  Next week will be the first full 4 weeks for some of them so I will try to add what you suggested.

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April 16, 2012, 04:47:49 AM
 #30

Great idea, stochastic.

About the week coupon returns: if you add a column for a four week moving average of the weekly returns, a better comparison can be drawn between the different bonds - as long as each bond pays out at least once per difficulty period.

Nice idea.  Next week will be the first full 4 weeks for some of them so I will try to add what you suggested.

You could also/instead do an average over each difficulty period if that makes more sense. Keep up the great work, stochastic.



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April 16, 2012, 11:25:30 AM
 #31

The one problem that I can see is

Quote
Note:  Deviations in dividend returns between listed companies may be due to the percentage of profit returned to shareholders.  Search the forums for information on the specific listed company.

The problem could be that to some degree we're comparing apples with oranges, a company retaining 90% of earnings and paying 1 BTC in dividends would appear significantly worse from an ROI perspective than another retaining but 10% of earnings and paying 2 BTC in dividends. However, on a fair-basis comparison the first made 10 BTC and the second ~2.22.

Would it be possible to maybe add an extra column or two, stating at the least the declared % of earnings passed on as dividends and at the most an adjusted ROI?

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Sukrim
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April 16, 2012, 01:46:03 PM
 #32

The problem could be that to some degree we're comparing apples with oranges, a company retaining 90% of earnings and paying 1 BTC in dividends would appear significantly worse from an ROI perspective than another retaining but 10% of earnings and paying 2 BTC in dividends. However, on a fair-basis comparison the first made 10 BTC and the second ~2.22.
Still the first returned 1 BTC and the other 2 BTC - this IS significatly worse from a ROI perspective! It's called "ROI" after all, not "company growth factor". If people want to invest in companies that make great profits but keep them, that's possible too. This chart is called "GLBSE Dividend Returns" though, so a (potentially made up) earnings figure that cannot be checked anywhere and that won't be returned toshare holders is something that is not useful in this context imho.

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stochastic
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April 16, 2012, 05:20:32 PM
 #33

The problem could be that to some degree we're comparing apples with oranges, a company retaining 90% of earnings and paying 1 BTC in dividends would appear significantly worse from an ROI perspective than another retaining but 10% of earnings and paying 2 BTC in dividends. However, on a fair-basis comparison the first made 10 BTC and the second ~2.22.
Still the first returned 1 BTC and the other 2 BTC - this IS significatly worse from a ROI perspective! It's called "ROI" after all, not "company growth factor". If people want to invest in companies that make great profits but keep them, that's possible too. This chart is called "GLBSE Dividend Returns" though, so a (potentially made up) earnings figure that cannot be checked anywhere and that won't be returned toshare holders is something that is not useful in this context imho.

It is pretty simple to search the forums to see the what percentage the company is holding and how much is being paid to shareholders.  That is why I put that disclaimer there so that people would know this.  I don't recommend anyone to just look at this chart and purchase or sell assets based on the information.  This table is a good starting point to investigate and see why there are differences between the assets.  I have read through each listing enough I have most of them memorized.  Also they can change if there is a motion and I don't want to miss a motion and have false information.

As for companies that retain earnings for future, that takes a lot of trust in a company to allow them to hold a percentage of the earnings.  There are some companies that don't really report their earnings or expenses publicly.  There are some that report everything.  Also some of the assets are bonds and some are shares.

The apples to apples comparison is how much money is given back to asset holders.  Unless the company has some way to increase asset holder value, only then should they retain earnings.  I would suggest that most of the price appreciation of assets on GLBSE is due to a continuous dividend payout to asset holders and not some intrinsic value of the assets.  Until there is better financial disclosure and accounting from these companies I would say 100% dividend returns is the way to go.

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April 16, 2012, 10:43:32 PM
 #34

Can a mod move this to the new Securities subforum?

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Sukrim
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April 16, 2012, 10:51:27 PM
 #35

Can a mod move this to the new Securities subforum?

Why?

From the description:
Quote
Topics about exchange sites which deal in securities should go in the top-level Marketplace section.

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stochastic
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April 16, 2012, 11:09:54 PM
 #36

Can a mod move this to the new Securities subforum?

Why?

From the description:
Quote
Topics about exchange sites which deal in securities should go in the top-level Marketplace section.

The OP is not about GLBSE, it is about dividends of securities on GLBSE.  It follows
Quote
This section is for topics about individual Bitcoin bonds, stocks, etc

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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April 17, 2012, 09:54:44 AM
 #37

Quote
The apples to apples comparison is how much money is given back to asset holders.

Hm, I guess in the end that's a perfectly valid way to look at it too. Cash-flow only investment as it were.

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April 17, 2012, 09:56:50 AM
 #38

Quote
The apples to apples comparison is how much money is given back to asset holders.

Hm, I guess in the end that's a perfectly valid way to look at it too. Cash-flow only investment as it were.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/perpetualbond.asp
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April 18, 2012, 09:44:16 AM
 #39

TyGrr reinvests 50% of its dividends back into new hardware adding value to the company. Can this be reflected in its dividend payments?

Thanks.

No, that is why I added the disclaimer for people to search the forums for specific retained earnings.  I was thinking of putting a Mhash/current price column and/or a total weekly gross/net earnings column but unlike the dividend payment any financial reporting is really just taken on faith and trust.

I think GLBSE should have some standard reporting ability so that evaluation and comparison of securities is easier, but the number of securities that are issued is still low and I don't see why people can't take the time to read all information regarding these securities.

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April 18, 2012, 11:49:25 AM
 #40

TyGrr reinvests 50% of its dividends back into new hardware adding value to the company. Can this be reflected in its dividend payments?

Thanks.

So your payout is effective 45% pps (including 5% fee, excluding elect. costs)?

Sorry, but I'm having hard time following what are you paying. You claimed 100%pps at the begining in the other thread, yet your contracts states 5% fee + electricity costs. I didn't see any mention of expansion.

Congratulations on creating a mess.

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