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Author Topic: GLBSE 2.0, Is safer now.  (Read 7846 times)
Nefario
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April 03, 2012, 01:35:55 PM
 #81


He already said he locked my account because I did not send him all the information he is asking for. He locked the account without telling me. I tried to log in several times after I was locked out but before he told me he locked the account.

Part of the first email I sent in reply to your question on your account not letting you in.

Quote
Hey Goat,
We've just added account recovery to GLBSE but there are still some
problems with your account.

While I get them sorted out could you forward onto me your proof of
identity (photo ID, passport), your phone number(home and mobile).
Your current job and place of work as well as a phone number there.
And you're home address.

You're account was locked for a good few hours before you contacted me, because there had been hundreds of failed login attempts. I added the captcha soon after to prevent this kind of attack again, I should have had it on there sooner but...stuff got in the way.

The information I asked for I have asked from others including Glasswalker, they haven't all provided all the information I requested(some have), doesn't mean it's a crime for me to ask.

Giving my documents was optional. Before I give this company my documents I would like to know where they are registered and how legal this is. If he gets raided I do not want him having my documents.
......
 I guess it partly depends where the company is registered so that will be the first thing to know.

The documents are stored on a USB hard drive with hardware encryption, hanging off the side of my dying netbook, on the coffee table of the house I live in (in Manchester, UK) where I spend too much of my day in front of.

GLBSE and BitcoinGlobal are not registered as businesses anywhere.
This has been clear from the beginning.

Also why do you need my work phone? Are you going to call my boss? You are changing the terms in the middle of the game.

I've been saying for months (and keeping everyone informed)that we're bringing in more verification and processes to increase the reliability of asset issuers and keep out scammers. This is not new.

I want to know if I can be held responsible for using your service.

If anyone knows about this please let me know. I guess it partly depends where the company is registered so that will be the first thing to know.

Americans trading securities with other Americans, is this a gray area or fully legal? I do not really know.

Thanks.

Why are you only asking these questions now?

You've been using GLBSE for many months, and it's only now you begin to question the legality of it all?

Listen, verify your account and I'll unlock it, you can then reset the password and continue on as you had before.

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likuidxd
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April 03, 2012, 01:40:16 PM
 #82

Just deal with this Goat, enough soap opera...  Cry

You could have sent a message to your share holders via GLBSE and dealt with this in private between yourself and Nefario. It would more than likely be resolved already.

mila
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April 03, 2012, 01:53:24 PM
 #83

The only thing I am worried about is the legality of this. If this is 100% legal and GLBSE is fully registered and licensed then I will send the documents.
I'm pleased he did make it safer.

/o\

your ad here:
The00Dustin
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April 03, 2012, 01:55:51 PM
 #84

@Nefario, I was not so worried about this being legal or not since I was anon. You want me to now not be anon:/


I'm going to look into this further as I do not want to be sued or jailed.

I still think it was uncalled for you to try and get people to freeze my coins. That leaves me with a very bitter taste.
This.  Seems like a reasonable concern to me despite all of the drama.  I was going to bring it up myself in response to the same post, but he beat me to it.  If the appropriate legal entity can get you to decrypt that USB key and claim all activity on GLBSE is illegal (whether said entities behavior and use of said information is legal or not), then they can come after everyone who they have proof you have worked with.  Personally, I was very concerned about using a main e-mail address instead of a more anonymous one as just a trader, but I believe this falls under the realm of hobbies and I am small time enough that US tax laws don't even touch my holdings for a hobby regardless.
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April 03, 2012, 01:58:01 PM
 #85

Now there are all very best excuses to delay the identity information submission.   Maybe it need some time to prepare some fake ID and passport. In Thailand, with a white face, visiting the local black market asking for a fake passport... man, it's not a easy job.

give him some time, Nefario.

I cannot understand why Nefario is so wrong to protect the public investor by asking the ID information from the issuer, who raise money from maybe hundreds of people. Isn't Nefario's requirement in the best interest of the community all? we see Garr puts all his information public, and Garr is not alone. Why there are people in this world have so strong ego saying that "trust me or leave and I won't let you effectively verify whether I'm the person who I have said is"?

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Nefario
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April 03, 2012, 02:06:27 PM
 #86

@Nefario, I was not so worried about this being legal or not since I was anon. You want me to now not be anon:/


I'm going to look into this further as I do not want to be sued or jailed.

I still think it was uncalled for you to try and get people to freeze my coins. That leaves me with a very bitter taste.
This.  Seems like a reasonable concern to me despite all of the drama.  I was going to bring it up myself in response to the same post, but he beat me to it.  If the appropriate legal entity can get you to decrypt that USB key and claim all activity on GLBSE is illegal (whether said entities behavior and use of said information is legal or not), then they can come after everyone who they have proof you have worked with.  Personally, I was very concerned about using a main e-mail address instead of a more anonymous one as just a trader, but I believe this falls under the realm of hobbies and I am small time enough that US tax laws don't even touch my holdings for a hobby regardless.

I think this is an understandable concern for people who wish above all things to remain anonymous. We're not asking regular traders to verify their ID, they don't even have to use a real email address (although they had better hope the don't lose their password or need to recover their account.). But Chaang is basically the largest entity being traded on GLBSE over 3 shares and has gotten thousands of BTC in shareholders money.

If you want to have this position, and do these things (get large amounts of other peoples money) showing some ID to the guy who runs the exchange is a very small requirement, a bank loan for 500USD has more requirements.

Do you not remember when GLBSE first started, and everyone, everything was anonymous, the result was time and again shareholders got scammed, we put up with that for nearly a year.

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likuidxd
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April 03, 2012, 02:11:48 PM
 #87

Just deal with this Goat, enough soap opera...  Cry

You could have sent a message to your share holders via GLBSE and dealt with this in private between yourself and Nefario. It would more than likely be resolved already.

How could I have done that with when I was locked out of my account?
I bet if you asked him he would have done so for you.

@Nefario, I was not so worried about this being legal or not since I was anon. You want me to now not be anon:/


I'm going to look into this further as I do not want to be sued or jailed.

I still think it was uncalled for you to try and get people to freeze my coins. That leaves me with a very bitter taste.
You were never anon. Your IP had been logged, it's tied to this forum where there is a picture of you and messages in the db that I'm sure your email is located. A few members in the trading section have your address and probably a birth name.

Still can not tell if you are serious Goat...

rjk
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April 03, 2012, 02:18:27 PM
 #88

Just deal with this Goat, enough soap opera...  Cry

You could have sent a message to your share holders via GLBSE and dealt with this in private between yourself and Nefario. It would more than likely be resolved already.

How could I have done that with when I was locked out of my account?
I bet if you asked him he would have done so for you.

@Nefario, I was not so worried about this being legal or not since I was anon. You want me to now not be anon:/


I'm going to look into this further as I do not want to be sued or jailed.

I still think it was uncalled for you to try and get people to freeze my coins. That leaves me with a very bitter taste.
You were never anon. Your IP had been logged, it's tied to this forum where there is a picture of you and messages in the db that I'm sure your email is located. A few members in the trading section have your address and probably a birth name.

Still can not tell if you are serious Goat...
+1. If you are trying to be anonymous, you are failing quite badly. In any case, Goat requires things to be done in small baby steps so that he can grasp what is happening. I think the sensory overload of a bunch of things at once is probably getting to him.

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Nefario
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April 03, 2012, 02:22:33 PM
 #89

@Nef So because I was not a scammer I will risk getting sued/jailed?  I worked hard for my reputation and did it while being mostly anon.

Clearly people trust me or they would not have sent me thousands of BTCs.

HorseRider is the rare exception Smiley


@likuidxd Yeah, I'm going to look into the legal stuff. I know the American laws for selling unlicensed securities are harsh. It would be nice if GLBSE went legal like Gox and Bitcoinica. They have my ID and I had no problems giving it to them:/

Once you verify your account with proof of ID I will unlock it, and this will finish.

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The00Dustin
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April 03, 2012, 02:24:18 PM
 #90

Do you not remember when GLBSE first started, and everyone, everything was anonymous, the result was time and again shareholders got scammed, we put up with that for nearly a year.
I do remember that, and my post that caused Brendio to respond here should indicate that I expected Goat to verify without issue.  However, I also feel like there are way too many laws and it is reasonable for him to want to be confident that revealing his identity to you won't expose him to some outrageous laws he was unaware of that was potentially not even relevant when he started using GLBSE.  I also understand why you need to keep that information, but I don't imagine you would keep the key to decryption a secret if a foreign military regime took over your home and tortured you (I also don't imagine it will ever come to that, but have no way of knowing whether or not you would refuse to provide the information if commanded to by a judge [regardless of whether or not you were otherwise legally obligated to provide the information]).  Also, regarding the comments just made about Goat's anonymity or lack thereof, look into plausible deniability and remember the alleged "innocent until proven guilty" legal structure of the US.  These things make the arguments more sound, regardless of other associations (as association does not prove guilt).
likuidxd
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April 03, 2012, 02:30:04 PM
 #91

Also, regarding the comments just made about Goat's anonymity or lack thereof, look into plausible deniability and remember the alleged "innocent until proven guilty" legal structure of the US.  These things make the arguments more sound, regardless of other associations (as association does not prove guilt).

You sir have not been paying attention to the news and internet security bills. Besides, Goat is apparently located in Thailand. Good luck with extradition to the US over trading securities for less than $100,000

The00Dustin
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April 03, 2012, 02:35:50 PM
 #92

You sir have not been paying attention to the news and internet security bills. Besides, Goat is apparently located in Thailand. Good luck with extradition to the US over trading securities for less than $100,000
Oh, but I have, and I signed more than one petition to help stop SOPA and PIPA, not that the US government will stop trying (nor that the Patriot act hasn't already royally F'ed us all).  Also, to be fair, I haven't seen his passport to know if he is a US citizen or just visits, and I am not familiar with trade law in Thailand to know if similar problems could exist there.  I will assume you aren't either.
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April 03, 2012, 02:48:40 PM
 #93

The man earning his trust through his alpha male behavior, not through solid evidence. The man earning the trust in the way Mr. Ponzi earn his back in 1919 in the Boston, who was doing some highly profitable stamp arbitrage business. Just like Mr. Ponzi covered his own history back in the Italian, The man cover his identity. Just like Mr. Ponzi has numerous indirect proof that his business is profitable,  The man talk everyone on this forum into believing but never have any direct evidence. Take the mining companies on the GLBSE as example, they showing us every transaction of their mining payouts, they give us pics and vedios about how they setting up the mining farm, which are all direct evidence. However, you can know nothing direct evidence that why The man 's business is so profitable.

Someone will argue that, the private loan market on this forum is running at 10%-15% monthly interest, so that The man can earn so much as well. This is true only if the scale of the business is small.

Mr. Ponzi doing stamp arbitrage might be indeed profitable, but not at 141,000 USD investment(the money back in 1919, maybe 100x- worth as it is now) which was collected from 30+ branch office in every corner of the city. man, it was only a small stamp, you put so much money into the market, how can you arbitrage any more!

Let's back to the private loan market in the bitcoin world. I personally lend some bitcoin out to two person on this forum, but I don't do it anymore. why? because I find it really hard to locate a safe debt investment opportunity. You have to spend lots of energy to search all the posts asking for lending and find someone trustworthy enough and earning 10%-15% monthly interest. So if someone invest tens of thousands of bitcoin on the bitcoin private loan market, he must take great risks where NPL jumps out and dragging the performance down. every 1% NPL make you 6% - 10% of your work meaningless. 10% NPL will eats all your interest and put you at the risk of loss. So The man must be a god to run such huge money at such high performance. He must be a god, and avoid every potential NPL on the forum.

Just like Ponzi is starting new business everyday, The man do the same. Yes, I cannot deny that there is some genius in the world who have super energy and very smart brain can do lots of things at the same time, but do you really believe that Goat is such kind of superman?

"History repeat itself.
If seems too good to be true, It probably is.
Listen to the skeptics."

from The Forewarned Investor: Don't Get Fooled Again by Corporate Fraud

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April 03, 2012, 03:00:28 PM
 #94

The scale of the speculative bubble about The Myth of Goat is so huge. If it would not be stopped by the GLBSE now with effective identity verification, it might bring the bitcoin world into a Great Depression just as the scamming Wall Street did before in 1929. They issue stocks with simple, beautiful story, and drag the whole economy into disaster at the burst of the bubble. I ask everyone on the forum now, why are you so trust this man? I think the most common answer will be as this:


Clearly people trust me or they would not have sent me thousands of BTCs.


Yes, all people trusted him. So why not trust him, even without any identity verification by a third party.

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556j
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April 03, 2012, 03:01:17 PM
 #95

Why do so many in this community expect another entity to come in and protect their assets? It's a big joke. If you don't want to invest money with someone that doesn't verify ID don't invest money with some one that isn't verified. What a difficult concept that is. You don't invest then demand ID AFTER the fact. When it was clearly marked he wasn't verified the entire time. Bitcoin is the wild west you guys want to turn it into USD. What the fuck is the point then.
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April 03, 2012, 03:04:23 PM
 #96

Why do so many in this community expect another entity to come in and protect their assets? It's a big joke. If you don't want to invest money with someone that doesn't verify ID don't invest money with some one that isn't verified. What a difficult concept that is. You don't invest then demand ID AFTER the fact. When it was clearly marked he wasn't verified the entire time. Total fucking joke. Bitcoin is the wild west you guys want to turn it into USD. What the fuck is the point then.

The GLBSE is running by Nefario.
So that if he wants to verify the ID, he has the right to ask cooperation.
If his requirement is not fulfilled, he has the right to delist the asset.


 as simple as your argument.

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likuidxd
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April 03, 2012, 03:06:50 PM
 #97

You sir have not been paying attention to the news and internet security bills. Besides, Goat is apparently located in Thailand. Good luck with extradition to the US over trading securities for less than $100,000
Oh, but I have, and I signed more than one petition to help stop SOPA and PIPA, not that the US government will stop trying (nor that the Patriot act hasn't already royally F'ed us all).  Also, to be fair, I haven't seen his passport to know if he is a US citizen or just visits, and I am not familiar with trade law in Thailand to know if similar problems could exist there.  I will assume you aren't either.

I am an American who visits America often. I'm not too worried about the Thai laws.

I'LL COME FIND YOU  Wink
lol

HorseRider
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April 03, 2012, 03:09:17 PM
 #98

Mr. Ponzi was well know in person and even so he is scamming the money from the crowd. However, in such case, Ponzi was put in jail at last, which prevent lots of cons from fraud criminal attempts. With the identity unverified, you can steal the money at no cost.

maybe someone should start another exchange beside the GLBSE, where the willingly investors goes there. let GLBSE persist verifying the ID. And the other one has no identity verified. let the two stock exchange compete. We will see which stock exchange is the favorite one for the investors.


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Nefario
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April 03, 2012, 03:12:39 PM
 #99


Let's say that I do give you the ID and I am a scammer. What will happen after I steal all the coins?
You have to go through the considerable expense and effort of forging a new fake passport/ID as your old one would become public.

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556j
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April 03, 2012, 03:21:11 PM
 #100


Let's say that I do give you the ID and I am a scammer. What will happen after I steal all the coins?
You have to go through the considerable expense and effort of forging a new fake passport/ID as your old one would become public.

What if he locks his investors funds and requires them to send ID. Then sends you their ID rather than his own. Kinda like you could do, with everyones info you collect.
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