When will the USA pay their debts, if ever?

[Robert Paulson]

America is a rich man, if countries were people. China is nothing more than a labor slave for cheaply made everything. China will never come looking for repayment on our debt to them. Why would they, why would anyone? You must be aware that America does in fact rule the economic policy of the world.

someone who owes the rest of the world 4.7 trillion USD is not a rich man, hes a debt slave.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/external-debt

are you seriously asking why would anyone come collecting the money they are owed?

America used to rule the economic policy of the world more than 30 years ago when it was the biggest creditor nation and the world owed it money for all the goods it exported to them.
America today is a debt slave of China.

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[NotLambchop]

America is a rich man, if countries were people. China is nothing more than a labor slave for cheaply made everything. China will never come looking for repayment on our debt to them. Why would they, why would anyone? You must be aware that America does in fact rule the economic policy of the world.

someone who owes the rest of the world 4.7 trillion USD is not a rich man, hes a debt slave.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/external-debt

are you seriously asking why would anyone come collecting the money they are owed?

America used to rule the economic policy of the world more than 30 years ago when it was the biggest creditor nation and the world owed it money for all the goods it exported to them.
America today is a debt slave of China.

You really don't understand how life works.  If I owe you a billion dollars and I'm stronger than you?  I got you by the balls, not the other way around

[Robert Paulson]

America is a rich man, if countries were people. China is nothing more than a labor slave for cheaply made everything. China will never come looking for repayment on our debt to them. Why would they, why would anyone? You must be aware that America does in fact rule the economic policy of the world.

someone who owes the rest of the world 4.7 trillion USD is not a rich man, hes a debt slave.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/external-debt

are you seriously asking why would anyone come collecting the money they are owed?

America used to rule the economic policy of the world more than 30 years ago when it was the biggest creditor nation and the world owed it money for all the goods it exported to them.
America today is a debt slave of China.

You really don't understand how life works.  If I owe you a billion dollars and I'm stronger than you?  I got you by the balls, not the other way around

Unless the only way you can survive is if i continue loaning you money.
they American government is consistently running huge deficits, the only way the it can continue to function is if China continues making the loans.
not only that but America needs a loan of 40 billion every month to keep paying for its imports.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/balance-of-trade

its clear to me who has who by the balls, and its not the guy who goes hungry if his master stops giving him money.

[NotLambchop]

^Robert, "someone who owes the rest of the world 4.7 trillion USD" also has the power to print those self-same dollars, remember?  You told me that yourself, or another smart feller just like u did.  We don't "needs a loan of 40 billion every month," Robert.
We're a producer country, a manufacturing powerhouse.
We can print "40 billion every month" all by ourselves

...
Learn to love us or die.



  ~Your Beneficent Reptilian Overlords.

[SaltySpitoon]

There have been many points in US history where they could have paid back the entirety of its debt, however it was originally a strategic position to hold onto a bit of debt. IE if the US owes China a bunch of money, and then Canada moves in to attack the US, it would be in China's best interest to help protect its own money. The question is, has the US dug itself in too deep? I think probably, but with drastic measures and 20 years of a miserable tax increase, the debt could be paid off. Might be easier to just default and go to USD (are we on 4.0 now?)

[NotLambchop]

... The question is, has the US dug itself in too deep? I think probably...

Have you considered exactly what US "defaulting" on its debts would bring about?  Are you picturing debt collectors?  China choosing not to trade with us any more?
Taunting us on the interwebs perhaps?

[pattu1]

There have been many points in US history where they could have paid back the entirety of its debt, however it was originally a strategic position to hold onto a bit of debt. IE if the US owes China a bunch of money, and then Canada moves in to attack the US, it would be in China's best interest to help protect its own money. The question is, has the US dug itself in too deep? I think probably, but with drastic measures and 20 years of a miserable tax increase, the debt could be paid off. Might be easier to just default and go to USD (are we on 4.0 now?)

As long as debt levels are sustainable, the US will not have any problems in rolling over its debt.
If we try to pay off our debts totally, we are essentially punishing this generation for the sins of past US governments.

[Robert Paulson]

^Robert, "someone who owes the rest of the world 4.7 trillion USD" also has the power to print those self-same dollars, remember?  You told me that yourself, or another smart feller just like u did.  We don't "needs a loan of 40 billion every month," Robert.
We're a producer country, a manufacturing powerhouse.
We can print "40 billion every month" all by ourselves

...
Learn to love us or die.

  ~Your Beneficent Reptilian Overlords.

why bother printing, just tell the Chinese you won't pay it back, after all paying back in useless papers is not really paying back, the Chinese aren't stupid.
the only problem is they won't loan any more money and America won't be able to import anymore.

America hasn't been a manufacturing powerhouse for 30 years now, if it was it wouldn't have a 40 billion per month trade deficit.

[Robert Paulson]

... The question is, has the US dug itself in too deep? I think probably...

Have you considered exactly what US "defaulting" on its debts would bring about?  Are you picturing debt collectors?  China choosing not to trade with us any more?
Taunting us on the interwebs perhaps?

China won't export to the US anymore, the US goes hungry e.g massive shortages of products.

[NotLambchop]

^Robert, "someone who owes the rest of the world 4.7 trillion USD" also has the power to print those self-same dollars, remember?  You told me that yourself, or another smart feller just like u did.  We don't "needs a loan of 40 billion every month," Robert.
We're a producer country, a manufacturing powerhouse.
We can print "40 billion every month" all by ourselves

...
Learn to love us or die.

  ~Your Beneficent Reptilian Overlords.

why bother printing, just tell the Chinese you won't pay it back, after all paying back in useless papers is not really paying back, the Chinese aren't stupid.
the only problem is they won't loan any more money and America won't be able to import anymore.
...

China doesn't "loan money" to US.  But to humor you:  
The money owed China is USD, nothing else--not gold, not chickens, not socks.
Dollars, Robert.  American Dollars.  Dollars the whole world wants, and we print.

We will print up teh $$ to pay China back.  Slowly.  Maybe.  If China behaves itself & doesn't piss us off.

But you, Robert, you should feel free to inform China about the state of its debt.  Just call 911 and ask the operator to put you through to the Big Cheese in China, say "matter of world importance."
We get calls like that often, from concerned smart citizens such as yourself.
We know just what to do.



  ~Your Beneficent Reptilian Overlords.

[o_o]

USA will never pay their debts, it is so much that usa can not be paid in a reasonable time.

[ANTIcentralized]

^Robert, "someone who owes the rest of the world 4.7 trillion USD" also has the power to print those self-same dollars, remember?  You told me that yourself, or another smart feller just like u did.  We don't "needs a loan of 40 billion every month," Robert.
We're a producer country, a manufacturing powerhouse.
We can print "40 billion every month" all by ourselves

...
Learn to love us or die.

  ~Your Beneficent Reptilian Overlords.

why bother printing, just tell the Chinese you won't pay it back, after all paying back in useless papers is not really paying back, the Chinese aren't stupid.
the only problem is they won't loan any more money and America won't be able to import anymore.
...

China doesn't "loan money" to US.  But to humor you:  
The money owed China is USD, nothing else--not gold, not chickens, not socks.
Dollars, Robert.  American Dollars.  Dollars the whole world wants, and we print.

We will print up teh $$ to pay China back.  Slowly.  Maybe.  If China behaves itself & doesn't piss us off.

But you, Robert, you should feel free to inform China about the state of its debt.  Just call 911 and ask the operator to put you through to the Big Cheese in China, say "matter of world importance."
We get calls like that often, from concerned smart citizens such as yourself.
We know just what to do.



  ~Your Beneficent Reptilian Overlords.

China does not lend money directly to the US, but rather buys treasury securities from primary dealers of treasuries (who buy treasuries directly from the treasury). The semantics of how they own USG debt is really not the point.

You are correct to say that China is owed US dollars, which is the currency that the US government prints and has the ability to print at it's will

[Furio]

The petrol dollar, it all starts there. CEO of Total who was an opponent of the petrol dollar, plane crash just now...... Yeah right.

[Zer0p0inT]

The petrol dollar, it all starts there. CEO of Total who was an opponent of the petrol dollar, plane crash just now...... Yeah right.

what a coincidence

[Yeah?]

The thing with countries debt is that it never will get paid because they will never stop lending money so they're kept in perpetual state of debt which is what the debitors want. The money just gets drip fed, but the debt will never be cleared.

[Robert Paulson]

You should also look at the the percentage break down of where this money is owe'd.

A pretty high percentage is actually owned by the American People (and businesses and what not). So if all debts were called in tomorrow, we'd end up paying ourselves a lot of money.

Additionally, I'm pretty sure the USA is owe'd something in the neighborhood of $.75 for every dollar of our national debt. What this means is that if someone was to call in all the debts at once we'd only need to pay off $.25 of every dollar of debt with our own economy. Other countries will pay off the rest for us.

That being said, this will never happen. Its economic suicide for the entire world. So don't worry about it.

America has a net debt (that is liabilities minus assets) of 4.7 trillion to foreigners.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/external-debt
and yes, its never getting paid back, at least not in the same purchasing power, its only a question of when the default/inflation will happen.
it will 100% happen eventually, America's lenders won't continue throwing good money after bad forever, and indeed they are already stopping.

[Robert Paulson]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11146844/New-Yorks-iconic-Waldorf-Astoria-sold-to-Chinese-businessmen.html

the Chinese bought the Waldorf Astoria one of America's most famous hotels.
if you told this anyone 50 years ago they would laugh at you.
its a good thing the white house and the statue of liberty aren't for sale, or the Chinese would just put it on a steam boat back to China too.

America has become a Chinese debt slave and a joke.

[kjj]

From reading this thread, I can only conclude that no one here is older than about 30 years old.  20 years ago, the Japanese were buying up all sorts of iconic American properties^*.  Oh, and in the 70s and 80s, it was the Arabs "on the corner buying everything in sight"^**.

At any rate, no nation that borrows in its own currency (such as the USA) ever needs to have a formal default.  The reason is that we can (and do) use the informal default of inflation.

Also nice to see the insane "money is debt and you can't pay it off" crew making a good showing in this thread.

* 1992.  Fiction, but it shows the mood.
** Happy Birthday from 1982

[Robert Paulson]

From reading this thread, I can only conclude that no one here is older than about 30 years old.  20 years ago, the Japanese were buying up all sorts of iconic American properties^*.  Oh, and in the 70s and 80s, it was the Arabs "on the corner buying everything in sight"^**.

At any rate, no nation that borrows in its own currency (such as the USA) ever needs to have a formal default.  The reason is that we can (and do) use the informal default of inflation.

Also nice to see the insane "money is debt and you can't pay it off" crew making a good showing in this thread.

* 1992.  Fiction, but it shows the mood.
** Happy Birthday from 1982

ever since the dollar started being fiat paper in 71 foreigners started taking America apart, until today where it got to the point where China can pretty much buy all of it in cash.
and the American sheeple actually believe they have an army   America's army is financed by Chinese loans, without those loans the dollar would hyperinflate in a year and the war machine would grind to a halt.

the only thing insane is continuing to allow a group of people to legally print the only currency that is accepted for the payment of taxes and loaning it with interest to the public.

banks produce nothing of value and yet they are worth billions, they are parasites living off the goods produced by the real working population.

[indiangrad]

US probably would not be able to pay their debt ever. But that doesn't matter as long as it is the reserve currency of the world, since it will always find creditors in the form of international investors till then...