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Author Topic: Evil of religion, and investment into IBB, Islamic Bitcoin Bank  (Read 7618 times)
grondilu
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April 27, 2012, 07:37:14 AM
 #81

As for IBB, banking / bitcoins, you have a problem with the name, you are not the first, there are 2 or 3 like you who voiced their concerns. They ask me to drop the 'islamic' part of islamic bank of bitcoin, why force me to do what you want ?
where is my freedom to choose the name I want ?

Don't worry I don't force you about anything.  I'm telling you that there are some people who will not consider iyou seriously as long as you put religious references in your economic activities.

Atheists don't like superstitions and would not want to have business with a "astrological bank of bitcoins", "christian bank of bitcoin" or "pastafaric bank of bitcoin".


PS.  I understand though that such a name has probably a good appeal for muslim people.  And there are quite a lot of muslims in this world so I guess from a marketing point of view your name is a good strategy.
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April 27, 2012, 04:54:55 PM
 #82

I thought the OP's post made an interesting read and I thank him for posting something thought provoking. Although, I don't agree that religion is evil. Evil only exists if there is a God. Otherwise evil is just choices you don't agree with. True evil is a supernatural concept that assumes there is an absolute and objective good.
 

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kokjo
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April 27, 2012, 04:55:38 PM
 #83

Atheists don't like superstitions and would not want to have business with a "astrological bank of bitcoins", "christian bank of bitcoin" or "pastafaric bank of bitcoin".
just love your BLACK-OR-WHITE logic.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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April 28, 2012, 03:28:42 AM
 #84



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Good one. The correct answer is the second.

“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
― John Rogers
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April 28, 2012, 07:12:04 AM
 #85

senbonzakura has a good point, while the arab world created math, science etcetc, the christian world was busy burning witches and launching crusades and slaughtering thousands of people. All in name of god of course.
They didn't create math and science, they contributed to math and science. And coined many names, like Algebra. Math has a much older history, inlcluding Egypt, Babylon, and India. But the greatest role was in math and science was played by ancient Greece long before Christianity or Islam.

While Christians were doing all these cruel acts, Muslims were also busy stoning adulterous women to death, and killing the unfaithful. Leaving Islam is punishable by death. As for the crusades, read history, it started as defense against muslim conquests, not the other way around. Sure in their conquests the Muslims didn't kill Christians or Jews, especially the monks/clergy, because they are considered people of the book. But pagans/heathens were killed or taken as slaves. Girls were also kidnapped for harems.

An even today in the Islamic world women are stoned to death for adultery. And people killed for witchcraft, heresy, or atheism.

People should read more history.
machetelobby69
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April 28, 2012, 07:58:56 AM
 #86

I just readed the initial post and I am really angry of what I am reading. You are really one-sided and you are realy taking out of your hat here
frisco2
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April 28, 2012, 08:04:20 AM
 #87

I thought the OP's post made an interesting read and I thank him for posting something thought provoking. Although, I don't agree that religion is evil. Evil only exists if there is a God. Otherwise evil is just choices you don't agree with. True evil is a supernatural concept that assumes there is an absolute and objective good.
 

Evil is defined not in the context of religion or atheism, but in the context of moral code.  For example, for me, whose moral code is the recognition of basic human rights, which are (a) a right to private property, and (b) the right to purse an objective as long as I don't hurt right (a) of other people --- Sharia is evil, because it does not allow me to do so.

For another person, whose moral code is such that his individual aspirations go second to the ones of the community, obviously, whatever system the community uses will be good.  So if the community decides to hang a bunch of non-believers, that is considered ok.

I just readed the initial post and I am really angry of what I am reading. You are really one-sided and you are realy taking out of your hat here

To me logic is black and white. I don't follow "fuzzy" logic.  For example, what is the answer to the question: "is there a pink teapot floating in Earths orbit" ? The answer is "no".


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grondilu
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April 28, 2012, 08:21:53 AM
 #88

then its simple, dont be a customer of an islamic bank if you have a problem with religion. please tell me who forced to you to use an islamic bank account ? you have a choice like everyone else.

you can go to a conventional non-religious bank, I did not stop and I dont see anyone stopping you, your making a big deal out of nothing.
when somebody forces you to use IBB or any other islamic bank, then come talk me.

The topic of this thread is not:  "should I do business with IBB?".    Neither it is "should anyone be forced to do business with them?".

We were discussing about religion and why it sucks, and that lead me to express my opinion about IBB.  Now I can understand you don't like it but it is not because I don't have to use it that I won't express my opinion about it on the dedicated thread.
kokjo
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April 28, 2012, 08:31:18 AM
 #89

I just readed the initial post and I am really angry of what I am reading. You are really one-sided and you are realy taking out of your hat here
To me logic is black and white. I don't follow "fuzzy" logic.  For example, what is the answer to the question: "is there a pink teapot floating in Earths orbit" ? The answer is "no".
BLACK-OR-WHITE logic is used in math. you can't use math in the real world(and i love math btw.).
the world is not black and white, it also have the colors green, yellow, and gray.

btw. how did you know about the teapot? have you seen it? have you any conclusive proof that it does not exist? your answer is incorrect, "no" is not the answer. the correct answer is "i don't know".

you see there is "i don't know"-answers in math. yet-to-proven/disproven theorems for example.
In computer science, you can also prove, that its impossible to prove/disprove something(like the halting problem).

conclusion: B-OR-W logic sucks. and can not always be applied to the real world, or even the math/science-world.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
grondilu
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April 28, 2012, 08:42:19 AM
 #90

btw. how did you know about the teapot? have you seen it? have you any conclusive proof that it does not exist? your answer is incorrect, "no" is not the answer. the correct answer is "i don't know".

There is no tea-pot orbiting around Jupiter.  Neither there are any leprechauns or flying horses.

That's an application of Occam's razor.

If you don't agree with that, then you just can't affirm anything and you are not religious, you're nihilist.  You might as well say that we don't know for sure if the sun is going to raise tomorow.  And without occam's razor, we don't.

Common sense tells you there is no tea-pot around Jupiter.  So it should tell you there is no omnipotent God anywhere, caring about human beings and violating physical laws from times to times to guide their life.
kokjo
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April 28, 2012, 08:51:14 AM
 #91

btw. how did you know about the teapot? have you seen it? have you any conclusive proof that it does not exist? your answer is incorrect, "no" is not the answer. the correct answer is "i don't know".

There is no tea-pot orbiting aroung Jupiter.  Neither there are any leprechaum or flying horses.

That's an application of Occam's razor.
its only saying some thing about the likelihood for a teapot around Jupiter, you still don't have any conclusive proof.
my personal opinion about the teapot: "lol, there is no teapot"
the strictly logical conclusion about the teapot: "i don't know"
the agnostic view of the teapot: "i don't know, and it doesn't matter"

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
grondilu
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April 28, 2012, 08:57:18 AM
 #92

its only saying some thing about the likelihood for a teapot around Jupiter, you still don't have any conclusive proof.
my personal opinion about the teapot: "lol, there is no teapot"
the strictly logical conclusion about the teapot: "i don't know"
the agnostic view of the teapot: "i don't know, and it doesn't matter"

I don't know exactly what you mean by "strictly logic".  Logic is about applying a succession of axioms to a set of hypothesis in order to arrive to a conlusion.  If you add Occam's razor to the set of axioms, then there is no tea-pot orbiting around Jupiter.

Otherwise, from your "strictly logic" point of view, I don't know if Jupiter even exists as we know it, since I have never seen it through a telescope.  So to me it could just be an ordinary star.  Or a totally different planet.

Occam's razor allows me to affirm that all the photographs, descriptions and scientist studies about Jupiter are not lies, nor a huge international conspiracy against me, aimed at having me believe in a non-existent planet.
kokjo
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April 28, 2012, 09:05:39 AM
 #93

its only saying some thing about the likelihood for a teapot around Jupiter, you still don't have any conclusive proof.
my personal opinion about the teapot: "lol, there is no teapot"
the strictly logical conclusion about the teapot: "i don't know"
the agnostic view of the teapot: "i don't know, and it doesn't matter"

I don't know exactly what you mean by "strictly logic".  Logic is about applying a succession of axioms to a set of hypothesis in order to arrive to a conlusion.  If you add Occam's razor to the set of axioms, then there is no tea-pot orbiting aroung Jupiter.

correct. but Occams razor, uses fuzzy-logic and use of it is determined by the user/scientist that uses it. -> two different persons could with the same set of facts(if there even exist such thing), come up with two different mutual-exclusive conclusions.
and it's therefor not "strictly" logically.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
grondilu
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April 28, 2012, 09:13:15 AM
 #94

correct. but Occams razor, uses fuzzy-logic and use of it is determined by the user/scientist that uses it. -> two different persons could with the same set of facts(if there even exist such thing), come up with two different mutual-exclusive conclusions.
and it's therefor not "strictly" logically.

Only maths are strictly logical.   And I'm not the one who brought logic in this thread, anyway.

Occam's razzor is a logical principle.  It's not an axiom of Zermel-Fraenkel theory, for instance.  It doesn't have to be one of them to be widely accepted as logical principle.

If only mathematicians can have an opinion about the universe, then no wonder religion has so much success.
Gabi
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April 28, 2012, 04:00:09 PM
 #95

The name of the bank imply that it is somehow related to a religion (and not to the other) and so there is a god (but not zeus or odin or thor) wich is not exactly... convincing
Add to that all the problems that religion always create and then you see why i am not convinced at all by that "bank"

After all no one would trust a flying spaghetti monster bank!
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April 28, 2012, 04:01:45 PM
 #96

The name of the bank imply that it is somehow related to a religion (and not to the other) and so there is a god (but not zeus or odin or thor) wich is not exactly... convincing
Add to that all the problems that religion always create and then you see why i am not convinced at all by that "bank"

After all no one would trust a flying spaghetti monster bank!

Well if I need a loan I know what interest rate would pull me in.

Gabi
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April 28, 2012, 04:06:33 PM
 #97

->Implying a 0% interest bank exist. But oh there are other fees, their name is not interest but you still pay
No interest=you loan, the guy can't repay, you fail.
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April 28, 2012, 04:16:36 PM
 #98

Just for the record - the concept of 'evil' is supernatural and as irrational as belief in God.
Human behaviour can always be explained, whether it's the behavior of psychopaths or Abu Ghraib guards (see the work of Phillip Zimbardo)
kokjo
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April 28, 2012, 04:19:03 PM
 #99

Human behaviour can always be explained, whether it's the behavior of psychopaths or Abu Ghraib guards (see the work of Phillip Zimbardo)
i always claim that im proof otherwise.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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April 28, 2012, 11:12:23 PM
 #100

I agree, do what ever you want, say what ever you want, just dont demand of me to change the name or remove 'islamic' or do things the way you like

Only the owner of this forum can set the rules.   There is no such thing as freedom of speech. Instead, there is freedom to pursue an objective, as long as you don't impose of private property of others. For example, I can not submit an atheist essay to an Islamic newspaper  and expect it published.  The newspaper real estate belongs to the owner of the newspaper, and he sets the rules on his own property.

However, people express their opinions on this forum, saying that don't enjoy their experience (as a customer of the forum), because instead of it being about bitcoin, it is about promotion of  a religious dogma.  IBB makes a statement that zero percent loans are good for you not only financially, but morally, according to Sharia laws. Since the owner of the forum wants to keep his customers satisfied, he can enforce a policy on the site that is going to retain his customers. Also that policy would not go against his own moral convictions.

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