Evil of religion, and investment into IBB, Islamic Bitcoin Bank

[film2240]

Bitcoin is just a tool for trade. There is no built in morality into the tool,just like with all other tools.The interest free loans from IBB is in accordance to the religion's (Islam) idea that you can't make money with money (or words to that effect)

I like Bitcoin as it's a tool that lets me expand and extend my ability to trade to more people beyond the real world like PayPal, GBP,USD,etc.

I pesonally see this as just another tool/currency to do business with. The only time I'd be concerned is, if my money is funding poor practices in factories overseas (poor working conditions) and the like to make my smartphone/tablet,then I'll choose to spend my money elsewhere to a more ethical company. Do remember that Bitcoin itself and all money in general has no moral compass.

[Variable]

I agree.  Its just like cash.  Some snort coke with it, some donate it to the red cross, others buy missles.

[LoupGaroux]

What about us Red Cross volunteers who like to snort coke while missile shopping? Can we be evil too?

[Variable]

What about us Red Cross volunteers who like to snort coke while missile shopping? Can we be evil too?

hahahaha, that put me in a better mood I must admit

[zer0]

IBB is about Islamic banking regulations and practices.. so no interest loans, no usurous paper currency, ect.
If all our banks used the same practice none of our countries would be broke right now from epic subprime speculation fallout. If Raelians offered the same benefits as Islamic Banking Sharia law and had a thousand years history of operating sucessfully I'd use their bank too.

[frisco2]

Zer0 -- usury gave us civilization. Look at my comments on the thread titled "usury = not cool".

Variable: yes but I wouldn't invest in a mafia , even if it give back high returns. Tim thinking about the long run -- oppression.

[wogaut]

IBB is about Islamic banking regulations and practices.. so no interest loans, no usurous paper currency, ect.
If all our banks used the same practice none of our countries would be broke right now from epic subprime speculation fallout. If Raelians offered the same benefits as Islamic Banking Sharia law and had a thousand years history of operating sucessfully I'd use their bank too.

One interesting thing is, that this concept is in the scripture of the Bible too, but has been conveniently left out in our culture.
http://realcurrencies.wordpress.com/2012/04/17/the-scourge-of-usury/
Instead we cover up any guilt by charity or just going agnostic and rationalize it away.

[Gabi]

[kokjo]

it was America's own fault, they should not have fucked around in the middle east, and then their buildings would still stand.
im not saying that im happy for 9/11, it was a grusome attack.
but it's just stupid fucking around, and making people angry, and expecting that it doesn't come back to you at some point.

[Gabi]

it was America's own fault

[fatbitcoinfan]

... in Russia. People were afraid to say something in their kitchen that is against the government. The walls had ears.

Actually, it was said that the kitchen was the one place where people could speak freely. It was in public where you had to keep your opinions completely quiet.

About religions, it's true that they are the cause of much suffering, but they were often an improvement on what came before. The prophets brought new laws, new ways for humans to regard their relationships to one another. If the people saw that the new laws were better than what they had, they converted.

Sometimes conversions were forced, but those were not genuine conversions; the victims just pretended to convert to keep the threatening maniacs happy. Religions can only spread far and wide if there are many genuine converts, who really do see something better than what they had before.

And the prophets who brought the new laws marked significant points in human development. The transitions from human sacrifice to no human sacrifice and from eye-for-an-eye to forgiveness of sin and love-thy-neighbor, as well as the prohibitions of slavery and usury were religious developments that improved humanity.

You might say that it was religion which put the human sacrifice, eye-for-an-eye and slavery there to begin with. True, but there was nothing else available. Early modern humans who had to find a way to understand what was happening did the best they could, and produced the religions to represent their understanding of humanity and its relationship to consciousness, death and the material world. If you took away their religion, there wouldn't be a better alternative for them to default to. There wasn't a better law that came before. The state of humanity before was worse; humans were more lawless and cruel.

I'm an atheist but I can see that religion isn't just an evil monstrosity which humanity would be better off without. It's a part of human culture, a process through which humans consider their relationship to the cosmos and conceive of moral and legal principles which can elevate them above their failings as selfish and finite beings.

[P4man]

Islam, just as any religion (Christianity or Judaism) it is evil at the core of its philosophy. However, Islam is the religion today that takes itself into the government of Iran, which puts guns in the hands of these religious people. If they didn't have guns, their philosophy will only hurt themselves, since it is irrational and has no semblance to reality (example: independence of thinking is bad, sex is bad, etc). So as a person protecting freedom, I'm voting for a war against Iran, to dissolve the religious government.  

Why Iran? Its one of the few countries in the region where women actually have rights, where there is at least  some limited form of democracy and freedom of press and expression. And yes, Im quite aware of how limited those are, but if you are insane enough to start a war because you dont like how other people run their own country, at least start with Saudi Arabia or Qatar. Compared to those, Iran is almost a secular model democracy.

[fatbitcoinfan]

Why Iran? Its one of the few countries in the region where women actually have rights, where there is at least  some limited form of democracy and freedom of press and expression. And yes, Im quite aware of how limited those are, but if you are insane enough to start a war because you dont like how other people run their own country, at least start with Saudi Arabia or Qatar. Compared to those, Iran is almost a secular model democracy.

Saudi Arabia and Qatar accept dollars for oil. No need for regime change there.

[grondilu]

It doesn't make any sense to say that religion is evil, does it?  I mean, if you don't believe in God, then you don't believe in the devil either.

Anyway, I am atheist and I think religion sucks indeed.  Mainly because it is pretty much not compatible with scientific knowledge.  It's obvious when talking about biology and evolution with a religious person, and particularly with a muslim.  But if you don't want everyone to fight one another, you gotta learn tolerance.

About this islamic bitcoin bank, I don't know much about it and maybe it rocks.  Yet I would propbably not do business with these people unless they get rid of the "islamic" reference in the name.  I don't know what's the point anyway, since I guess this word just mean that they don't lend money with interest, which is fine but doesn't need to be refered to "islamic" to exist.

[ryu-fk]

On the 9/11 thing, the attacks had nothing to do with religion but the american government has wrapped it up and presented it to you in such a way that it seems to be all about a hateful religion. The official story they sold was that the "moslems" attacked america because they hate your freedom, what a load of bullshit that is. America was attacked because of its oppressive foreign policy, you can't keep poking a lion and expect not to get bit. I'm not trying to justify the attacks, the act was wrong but america isn't totally innocent. Most Americans were gullible enough to fall for the"Muslims hate our freedom" propaganda that they went ahead and invaded a country that had nothing to do with anything and killed allot more innocent civilians than "terrorists" have.


Now about your post, you mention Iran quite allot. Let me make it clear right now that Iran is not a Muslim country!

[wogaut]

Let me make it clear right now that Iran is not a Muslim country!

Good post, 9/11 is really hard to discuss, while it was a terrible act of terrorism, it's almost like invoking Godwin's law when brought up in a discussion. Personally I think it was a unforgivable act of American officials to attack a country as a whole for a terrorist act.  Just think about it, if there's say a group of fundamental terrorists in another western country attacking a target in the USA, the US would most certainly not start a religious war against that country but try to persuade the government of said country to assist in finding those responsible of the acts of terrorism.

But how is Iran not an Islamic country?

Religion in Iran is dominated by the Twelver Shia branch of Islam, which is the official state religion and to which about 90% to 95%[244][245][246] of Iranians belong. About 4% to 8% of Iranians belong to the Sunni branch of Islam, mainly Kurds and Iran's Balochi Sunni. The remaining 2% are non-Muslim religious minorities, including Bahá'ís, Mandeans, Hindus, Yezidis, Yarsanis, Zoroastrians, Jews, and Christians.[38]

I understand the subtle difference between Islam as a religion and Muslim as a follower of said religion, but what specifically are you referring to that makes Iran not an Islamic country?

And how is this all related to IBB anyways?

I said it before, I support non-usurious financial practices, so I think senbonzakura deserves our encouragement, and I also said it before, even the Bible has these elements in it verbatim, but that's the part that Christianity never took that serious, I guess.

[grondilu]

And historically, they have a hell of a track record. Science and math as we know it wouldn't even exist without Islam. The Islamic Golden Age caused a revolution in virtually every field of human thought, during which they fucking invented algebra -- and advanced everything from geography and exploration to the arts, architecture, philosophy, urban development, medicine and health.

Yeah, they have their share in human progress.  Yet, I wonder why we keep calling these civilisation "islamic", because islam is very much less about science than about stoning adulterous women, cuting hands and raising your bottom five times a day.

And yes, islam has a probem with science:  evolution.  You may not think the world is 6000 years, yet you still refuse to admit that the human species is one species amongst many others, and that it evolves with other mammals from a common ancestor.   Every time I talked with a muslim, they always confirmed me this impression.

Why don't you talk about "arabic" civilisation instead of "islamic" ??

To me, keeping talking about islamic science is just as silly as talking about christian science when talking about Galileo, Newton, electromagnetism, electronics, thermodynamics, quantum mechanics, relativity, and so on.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt there is any sourate in the Coran encouraging young people to learn science and to understand nature.  Coran just want them to learn Coran.  And if there is something in science that contradicts Coran, then Coran says that Coran is right.  Because it is the book of God so it is true and you just can't discuss it.  How silly is this, seriously?

Sience has nothing to do with religion.  Without islam, people who invented algebra would probably have invented it anyway.  There is no reason why schools and libraries you are talking about could not have been built in a non-islamic arabic world.

[grondilu]

it has islamic in it , because its creeping shariah and we are taking over all of bitcoin and making it islamic !

What do you mean by we are taking over all of bitcoin ?

[Gabi]

senbonzakura has a good point, while the arab world created math, science etcetc, the christian world was busy burning witches and launching crusades and slaughtering thousands of people. All in name of god of course.

[grondilu]

senbonzakura has a good point, while the arab world created math, science etcetc, the christian world was busy burning witches and launching crusades and slaughtering thousands of people. All in name of god of course.

Yeah but were they really all muslims at this time ??

I mean, it's not like all the arab population, including greatest minds, became muslim as soon as the prophet appeared.