Occulta Scamming?

[JusticeForYou]

I am not saying anyone will have problems with his cards.I purchased a $500 one a month or so back and have had zero issues. Here is my problem:

     A new seller enters the market and offers cards at 20% off face value(which is exactly where Occulta started). A current seller who just happens to sell the same product at a lesser discount immediately claims the new person is scamming. What does he provide as evidence? Nothing, his entire argument rests on the premise that selling at such a discount is irrational. No one, not even the mighty occulta, knows the financial and social factors at play with this new seller. What appears to most as irrational could in fact be 100% rational and legitimate.

     My main question to Occulta is why is his 20% so irrational when you started at this discount and now sell at 10%? There is 0 proof that newdude is scamming. There have been ZERO issues with newdudes cards, in fact there have been ZERO issues with Occultas cards. Why is there some lynch mob after newdude? It appears Occulta is just anti free market and hates the competition so he is throwing out accusations that are unfounded and frankly just lies.

     If you are going to jump on the "carding" train, lets see who is really lying about how they get their amazon gift cards.

1) Amazon pays in lump sums once a month. Occulta conservatively sells 30-40 cards a month. So each card MUST be from a separate website.


2) In order to become an amazon affiliate and receive money from them you must provide your TAX ID #. So every dollar that Occulta is getting is being reported from amazon as paid to him. This means that it is being taxed the normal federal and state taxes. Then he comes on here and sells for an additional 10% off. He is essentially raising his tax rate on his alleged affiliate income by 10%, you want to talk about irrational behavior? If he wanted bitcoins he could take the direct deposit(which is offered on ALL amazon affiliate payments) and go through dwolla and mtgox which would save him more than 9%.

    To me the person who is actually "carding" is rather obvious.


     

There have been ZERO issues with newdudes cards, in fact there have been ZERO issues with Occultas cards. Why is there some lynch mob after newdude?

Kids from different play grounds often don't get along. OR Obviously they don't like competition.

As far as the 'legitimacy' questions, Why not look into how McDonald's gets to sell at a discount? Cause you don't care but accept the discount. If there is a 'plausible' legitimate way for it to be done, it isn't the buyers responsibility to verify the validity of how or why. That is left up to other people who's job it is.

Now, if he were selling for 50% to 80% off, then you might have a point.  But even then, it could be getting rid of inventory before going out of business. Again, it's not the buyers job to determine motives.

But if 'What Ifs' are what you are looking for, then the list is a mile long. What if: it is a program like the ATF selling guns (LOL), and he/they will be horribly embarrassed when it turns out to back fire on them.

What If: ∞

So in the end,

It comes down to, is it a good and reasonable deal on the face of it? If you like it, buy it. If you don't, don't.

[JusticeForYou]

And I find it suspicious that you would take 1000$ earned in USD (that could be directly deposited into your bank account +$1000) and turn this into +800$.

Try and find a whole in that argument.

Found it.





The $1000 doesn't come from him. It comes from Amazon and rather than buy amazon products, he wants to buy a Slushy at the 7/11.

[gamer4156]

I am not saying anyone will have problems with his cards.I purchased a $500 one a month or so back and have had zero issues. Here is my problem:

     A new seller enters the market and offers cards at 20% off face value(which is exactly where Occulta started). A current seller who just happens to sell the same product at a lesser discount immediately claims the new person is scamming. What does he provide as evidence? Nothing, his entire argument rests on the premise that selling at such a discount is irrational. No one, not even the mighty occulta, knows the financial and social factors at play with this new seller. What appears to most as irrational could in fact be 100% rational and legitimate.

     My main question to Occulta is why is his 20% so irrational when you started at this discount and now sell at 10%? There is 0 proof that newdude is scamming. There have been ZERO issues with newdudes cards, in fact there have been ZERO issues with Occultas cards. Why is there some lynch mob after newdude? It appears Occulta is just anti free market and hates the competition so he is throwing out accusations that are unfounded and frankly just lies.

     If you are going to jump on the "carding" train, lets see who is really lying about how they get their amazon gift cards.

1) Amazon pays in lump sums once a month. Occulta conservatively sells 30-40 cards a month. So each card MUST be from a separate website.


2) In order to become an amazon affiliate and receive money from them you must provide your TAX ID #. So every dollar that Occulta is getting is being reported from amazon as paid to him. This means that it is being taxed the normal federal and state taxes. Then he comes on here and sells for an additional 10% off. He is essentially raising his tax rate on his alleged affiliate income by 10%, you want to talk about irrational behavior? If he wanted bitcoins he could take the direct deposit(which is offered on ALL amazon affiliate payments) and go through dwolla and mtgox which would save him more than 9%.

    To me the person who is actually "carding" is rather obvious.


    

There have been ZERO issues with newdudes cards, in fact there have been ZERO issues with Occultas cards. Why is there some lynch mob after newdude?

Kids from different play grounds often don't get along. OR Obviously they don't like competition.

As far as the 'legitimacy' questions, Why not look into how McDonald's gets to sell at a discount? Cause you don't care but accept the discount. If there is a 'plausible' legitimate way for it to be done, it isn't the buyers responsibility to verify the validity of how or why. That is left up to other people who's job it is.

Now, if he were selling for 50% to 80% off, then you might have a point.  But even then, it could be getting rid of inventory before going out of business. Again, it's not the buyers job to determine motives.

But if 'What Ifs' are what you are looking for, then the list is a mile long. What if: it is a program like the ATF selling guns (LOL), and he/they will be horribly embarrassed when it turns out to back fire on them.

What If: ∞

So in the end,

It comes down to, is it a good and reasonable deal on the face of it? If you like it, buy it. If you don't, don't.

This is essentially my entire argument. No one cares where the cards came from. Occulta didnt want the competition so he forced a competitor out of the market by lying. Bitcoin is suppose to be the essence of a free market. This was anything but. Essentially you had a monopoly that didn't like the competition so he used his reputation to smear the new seller and force him out.

[occulta]

They are 100% the same here is why:

You earn $1000 from your supposed amazon affiliates account. You then take this 1000$ in USD and convert it into Amazon gift cards. You sell it at a 20% discount you get $800/$1000.

Newdude earns $1000 from selling Ipads.He then converts it into $1000  in amazon gift cards. He sells it at a 20% discount he gets 800/1000.

You are both taking 1000$ earned and turning it into 800$.

That is not at all how it works, you clearly cannot read, as i have told you he bought the GCs with a credit card, not by selling goods.

This is now out for jury as i cannot repeat such simple facts all night long

[gamer4156]

And I find it suspicious that you would take 1000$ earned in USD (that could be directly deposited into your bank account +$1000) and turn this into +800$.

Try and find a whole in that argument.

Found it.





The $1000 doesn't come from him. It comes from Amazon and rather than buy amazon products, he wants to buy a Slushy at the 7/11.

I didnt catch the black hole refrence but if your not joking and dont understand let me simplify.

Occulta earns $1000 through amazon affiliates(You can consider this a job) He could take this money and put it into his bank account. This would result in + $1000.

Instead he decides to be given his $1000 in amazon affiliate credit as a gift card. He then sells this gift card for $800.
His bank now would have +800

$1000-$800= $200 more that he could have had, if he had just taken the direct deposit.


Newdude earns $1000 through buying and reselling Ipads. He could take this money and put it into his bank account. This would result in + $1000.

Instead he decides to take his $1000 and buy gift cards. He then sells these gift cards for $800.
His bank now would have +800

$1000-$800= $200 more that he could have had, if he had just left that money in the bank.

[JusticeForYou]

This is essentially my entire argument. No one cares where the cards came from. Occulta didnt want the competition so he forced a competitor out of the market by lying. Bitcoin is suppose to be the essence of a free market. This was anything but. Essentially you had a monopoly that didn't like the competition so he used his reputation to smear the new seller and force him out.

Yea, 'Free Market'. Did you expect everyone to 'play nice'. I don't know about the other guy so can't speculate. However, YOU have a choice in this free market. If you honestly believe that, then go use the 'other guy'. Give him your business. And then in the end, maybe everyone WILL play nice.

But I do understand what you are saying, but you are aware of it. So your intent, is to put 'Your' belief into others. Making you no worse or better than occulta.  The 'Exception' here is if you have proof over speculation.

[gamer4156]

I feel that my argument is logically thought out and can lead any rational person to a certain conclusion. Now I am not trying to persuade people to use or not use him, once again I could give a shit where he gets his cards. I am just upset that people absolutely trusted Occult's word and forced a competitor out.NO evidence, not even an argument was presented. All that was said is that how can anyone do 20% off? SCAMMER. That was his entire argument.
 Who here would not have loved 20% off amazon all the time?

[gamer4156]

Also for others that didnt know you can accept your amazon affiliates payments in either Amazon Gift cards, or as USD with a direct bank transfer.

[jamesg]

Also for others that didnt know you can accept your amazon affiliates payments in either Amazon Gift cards, or as USD with a direct bank transfer.

What about out of country (USA) affiliates? Do you know how they can be paid?

[gamer4156]

Also for others that didnt know you can accept your amazon affiliates payments in either Amazon Gift cards, or as USD with a direct bank transfer.

What about out of country (USA) affiliates? Do you know how they can be paid?

International affiliates can be paid with a check or gift cards. Direct deposit is not available for non us banks.

[jamesg]

International affiliates can be paid with a check or gift cards. Direct deposit is not available for non us banks.

Hmmmm. Probably a better reason to get paid in gift cards and sell them on here. Huh.

[gamer4156]

Its 2012, It takes a week for a letter to get to pretty much any part of the world. How fast can one turn BTC into USD? 2-3 days? With the 10s of thousands that he has sold from 20%-10% off would you wait 2-3 more days for thousands of dollars more? Also is occulta located in the USA?

[ataranlen]

Occulta earns $1000 through amazon affiliates(You can consider this a job) He could take this money and put it into his bank account. This would result in + $1000.

Instead he decides to be given his $1000 in amazon affiliate credit as a gift card. He then sells this gift card for $800.
His bank now would have +800

$1000-$800= $200 more that he could have had, if he had just taken the direct deposit.


Newdude earns $1000 through buying and reselling Ipads. He could take this money and put it into his bank account. This would result in + $1000.

Instead he decides to take his $1000 and buy gift cards. He then sells these gift cards for $800.
His bank now would have +800

$1000-$800= $200 more that he could have had, if he had just left that money in the bank.

There are several problems with your argument here.
1. Occulta is selling them for 10% off, not 20%.
2. Bank transfers take time. Mailed checks take even more time. And then if he wants BTC, he has to wait even longer for a transfer from his bank account to whatever exchange he wants to use. And then Fees at the exchange!
3. The $1000 from Occulta is VERY different from the $1000 from Newdude. Here's why:
To get that $1000, occulta refers people to amazon, and earns 15% of what they buy. This can be as simple as links on his websites, to more complicated stuff such as setting up his own amazon.com sub-site. Occulta nets $1000 in amazon Credit.
 Newdude, if he is selling iPads, Buys them for $500-$800 each, and sells them for what, $50 profit each? He then takes that money and buys Amazon gift cards. (why he chooses gift cards? I don't know, Money laundry perhaps?) Newdude nets ~$50 for each iPad he sells.

[gamer4156]

Occulta earns $1000 through amazon affiliates(You can consider this a job) He could take this money and put it into his bank account. This would result in + $1000.

Instead he decides to be given his $1000 in amazon affiliate credit as a gift card. He then sells this gift card for $800.
His bank now would have +800

$1000-$800= $200 more that he could have had, if he had just taken the direct deposit.


Newdude earns $1000 through buying and reselling Ipads. He could take this money and put it into his bank account. This would result in + $1000.

Instead he decides to take his $1000 and buy gift cards. He then sells these gift cards for $800.
His bank now would have +800

$1000-$800= $200 more that he could have had, if he had just left that money in the bank.

There are several problems with your argument here.
1. Occulta is selling them for 10% off, not 20%.
2. Bank transfers take time. Mailed checks take even more time. And then if he wants BTC, he has to wait even longer for a transfer from his bank account to whatever exchange he wants to use. And then Fees at the exchange!
3. The $1000 from Occulta is VERY different from the $1000 from Newdude. Here's why:
To get that $1000, occulta refers people to amazon, and earns 15% of what they buy. This can be as simple as links on his websites, to more complicated stuff such as setting up his own amazon.com sub-site. Occulta nets $1000 in amazon Credit.
 Newdude, if he is selling iPads, Buys them for $500-$800 each, and sells them for what, $50 profit each? He then takes that money and buys Amazon gift cards. (why he chooses gift cards? I don't know, Money laundry perhaps?) Newdude nets ~$50 for each iPad he sells.

1) Occulta used to sell for 20% off and still does if you buy enough.

2) Lets say he has sold $30,000 worth of cards(its probably much higher) Lets take an average of 12%(just a guess, since he now sells for 10 and used to sell for 20) thats a $3,600 that he is getting taxed on but never made. The time is a good argument, and it comes down to would you make more money getting BTC now or waiting a week and having $3600 more to spend on coins. If he is some market wiz and makes a killing trading and having coins now makes him more money. Then I cant argue against that. $1000 earned is $1000 earned, there is no way to argue that. Just because they are earned differently doesn't make it less or more valuable.

3)According to newdude, he buys ipads for $100 with some pawnshop deal(this is what he says I dont know if this is a fact) And resells them for $250-$400.

[RaggedMonk]

This is essentially my entire argument. No one cares where the cards came from. Occulta didnt want the competition so he forced a competitor out of the market by lying. Bitcoin is suppose to be the essence of a free market. This was anything but. Essentially you had a monopoly that didn't like the competition so he used his reputation to smear the new seller and force him out.

If that is your entire argument, you should edit your post title and cross your fingers you don't get banned.  "Not playing nice with competition" is not scamming.  You are being libelous and belligerent.  Revise your post to be accurate, or prepare to lose any credibility you may have.

[gamer4156]

I believe the ? makes it a question and not a statement, im no master of the English language. If you want to see libelous and belligerent post, look at the original thread. There was absolutely no argument made as to why he was a scammer. It was just so. Big bad Occulta deemed it so and that was it.

[Keninishna]

To be honest I dont really care how newdude or occulta get their amazong giftcodes as long as they are legit. I have bought from occulta before and he is legit I have had 0 problems and neither has anyone else. Newdude so far has been trolling and has apparently ripped off one person so far... Its common sense here.

[gamer4156]

The best part of the haploid guy, is that he actually bought $4,000 worth of codes from Newdude. He got them all with 0 issues. I am not sure where the final $570 owed comes into play but he did get amazon GC's worth 4k.

[jwzguy]

Both sellers have acted very unprofessionally and I will not give either of them business having read these 2 threads.

[Pipesnake]

Pretty obvious anyone selling Amazon codes at 10-20% off is up to shenanigans.  If you can get paid $1000usd on $1000 off commissions why on earth would you accept 80 cents on the dollar?

80 cents on the dollar from an untraceable payment source I might add (so no chargeback issues when the codes start coming up invalid and/or banned).  Takes Amazon a while to catch up but it always does.  Mark my words.

Sorry but the truth hurts.