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Red Emerald
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April 08, 2012, 07:24:50 AM |
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I was just in the "Geek" section of this forum and I decided to throw out Bitcoin and i got alot of mixed responses, Makes me wonder how to make people listen... it seems people are really happy with worshiping their green dollars that has absolutely no backing at all...
Money is backed by the economy it is used in. Bitcoin is backed by the Bitcoin Economy. USD is backed by the American economy. Neither of these economies are "absolutely nothing." Also, the American economy is currently WAY LARGER than the bitcoin economy. Money doesn't need gold or some other arbitrary physical item to back it. That is a fallacy that people need to move past. |
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Xenland (OP)
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 980
Merit: 1003
I'm not just any shaman, I'm a Sha256man
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April 08, 2012, 08:41:21 AM |
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I was just in the "Geek" section of this forum and I decided to throw out Bitcoin and i got alot of mixed responses, Makes me wonder how to make people listen... it seems people are really happy with worshiping their green dollars that has absolutely no backing at all...
Money is backed by the economy it is used in. Bitcoin is backed by the Bitcoin Economy. USD is backed by the American economy. Neither of these economies are "absolutely nothing." Also, the American economy is currently WAY LARGER than the bitcoin economy. Money doesn't need gold or some other arbitrary physical item to back it. That is a fallacy that people need to move past. Are you sure because I'm almost positive that USD was originally notes for gold back in the day. I could be wrong of course. |
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Red Emerald
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April 08, 2012, 08:48:43 AM |
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I was just in the "Geek" section of this forum and I decided to throw out Bitcoin and i got alot of mixed responses, Makes me wonder how to make people listen... it seems people are really happy with worshiping their green dollars that has absolutely no backing at all...
Money is backed by the economy it is used in. Bitcoin is backed by the Bitcoin Economy. USD is backed by the American economy. Neither of these economies are "absolutely nothing." Also, the American economy is currently WAY LARGER than the bitcoin economy. Money doesn't need gold or some other arbitrary physical item to back it. That is a fallacy that people need to move past. Are you sure because I'm almost positive that USD was originally notes for gold back in the day. I could be wrong of course. "was originally" Not anymore. |
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LightRider
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1500
Merit: 1021
I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.
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April 08, 2012, 09:00:55 AM |
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Fiat currency is backed by a gun.
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Kettenmonster
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
bool eval(bool b){return b ? b==true : b==false;}
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April 08, 2012, 11:04:53 AM |
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... Makes me wonder how to make people listen ...
Why would you? Once people are old enough to spend their own money for whatever they like. Then consider them old enough to spend their own ears/time/etc for whatever they like. Give them a hint, let them decide. Your answer should be thorough but undogmatic. The more you preach the gospel the more fools you get hoarded. Gathering fools there is possibly maybe a bad idea.  |
The paining (sic!) is done with the QPainter class inside the paintEvent() method.
(source: my internet)
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Xenland (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 980
Merit: 1003
I'm not just any shaman, I'm a Sha256man
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April 08, 2012, 11:24:15 AM |
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I was just in the "Geek" section of this forum and I decided to throw out Bitcoin and i got alot of mixed responses, Makes me wonder how to make people listen... it seems people are really happy with worshiping their green dollars that has absolutely no backing at all...
Money is backed by the economy it is used in. Bitcoin is backed by the Bitcoin Economy. USD is backed by the American economy. Neither of these economies are "absolutely nothing." Also, the American economy is currently WAY LARGER than the bitcoin economy. Money doesn't need gold or some other arbitrary physical item to back it. That is a fallacy that people need to move past. Are you sure because I'm almost positive that USD was originally notes for gold back in the day. I could be wrong of course. "was originally" Not anymore. Looks like were going in circles... |
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herzmeister
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1007
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April 08, 2012, 11:52:43 AM |
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Fiat currency is backed by a gun.
this is the awareness that must spread. we must transcend from an age of top-down authoritarianism to an age of bottom-up initiatives fueled by passion and the belief in ourselves. fiat is backed by fear. bitcoin is backed by love.  |
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Xenland (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 980
Merit: 1003
I'm not just any shaman, I'm a Sha256man
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April 08, 2012, 11:54:44 AM |
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Fiat currency is backed by a gun.
this is the awareness that must spread. we must transcend from an age of top-down authoritarianism to an age of bottom-up initiatives fueled by passion and the belief in ourselves. fiat is backed by fear. bitcoin is backed by love.  Deep |
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Red Emerald
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April 08, 2012, 04:17:27 PM |
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Looks like were going in circles...
So you are attacking USD for being backed by nothing at all (and now I'm thinking you want it to be backed by gold), but support Bitcoin which is also backed by nothing... That's where you lose me. Your given reason for disliking fiat can be also applied to Bitcoin. Back OT, I support Bitcoin because I think it will kill Paypal. This is a much shorter term and much more realistic goal than ending world fiat, and it will probably fly better in the geek subforum as well. |
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evoorhees
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1021
Democracy is the original 51% attack
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April 08, 2012, 04:23:33 PM |
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People need to be more careful when using the term "backing" when referring to money. It has a very specific meaning but is usually perverted and causes lots of confusion.
"Backing" means that a party guarantees to exchange one asset for another upon redemption at a fixed rate. In the case of gold-backed USD, the banks guaranteed to give you gold in redemption for the paper, and this was at a fixed rate. Thus, the dollar was "backed" by gold. That's what backing means - a counterparty specifically promising to exchange one for the other at a certain rate.
Thus, Bitcoin is not backed by anything. Nor is gold backed by anything. Nor are dollars today backed by anything.
It is wrong to say that Bitcoin is "backed" by electricity, or cryptography, or the size of the Bitcoin economy. It is similarly wrong to say the USD is backed by the government, or by violence, etc. To do so is to pervert the term. Bitcoin is not backed by anything, and that is just fine, because it's a commodity unto itself and is valuable for its specific attributes. It needs no "backing" - it is a thing unto itself which we value. Same for gold.
If you find yourself in the position of saying Bitcoin is backed by something, change the term to say "Bitcoin is valuable because..." Or, "the USD is valuable because..." The answer to those sentences will be valid, and you won't be caught in the misnomer of "backing."
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Explodicle
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April 08, 2012, 05:50:21 PM |
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No offense, I get what you're going for, but you do totally look like a schill on that thread with the Bitcoin avatar and WeUseCoins.com link. It's not just an open-source project - it's an investment and people will view it just as suspiciously as they've learned to. Let them Google it themselves so the information feels more legitimate.
It's surprising to me how even highly technical people can think that Bitcoin has been hacked, or that a government could shut it down.
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Red Emerald
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April 08, 2012, 06:08:17 PM |
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I wish people would stop calling bitcoin an investment.
While it can be used as an investment and people have invested a lot of money into it, that is not at all the main point and Bitcoin cannot succeed if this is people's main use for it.
If you want bitcoin to succeed, use it as a currency.
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Kettenmonster
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
bool eval(bool b){return b ? b==true : b==false;}
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April 08, 2012, 08:19:42 PM |
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I wish people would stop calling bitcoin an investment.
It is part of the experiment. So don´t worry about it, it is necessary for its survival. |
The paining (sic!) is done with the QPainter class inside the paintEvent() method.
(source: my internet)
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Xenland (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 980
Merit: 1003
I'm not just any shaman, I'm a Sha256man
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April 09, 2012, 01:27:48 AM |
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People need to be more careful when using the term "backing" when referring to money. It has a very specific meaning but is usually perverted and causes lots of confusion.
"Backing" means that a party guarantees to exchange one asset for another upon redemption at a fixed rate. In the case of gold-backed USD, the banks guaranteed to give you gold in redemption for the paper, and this was at a fixed rate. Thus, the dollar was "backed" by gold. That's what backing means - a counterparty specifically promising to exchange one for the other at a certain rate.
Thus, Bitcoin is not backed by anything. Nor is gold backed by anything. Nor are dollars today backed by anything.
It is wrong to say that Bitcoin is "backed" by electricity, or cryptography, or the size of the Bitcoin economy. It is similarly wrong to say the USD is backed by the government, or by violence, etc. To do so is to pervert the term. Bitcoin is not backed by anything, and that is just fine, because it's a commodity unto itself and is valuable for its specific attributes. It needs no "backing" - it is a thing unto itself which we value. Same for gold.
If you find yourself in the position of saying Bitcoin is backed by something, change the term to say "Bitcoin is valuable because..." Or, "the USD is valuable because..." The answer to those sentences will be valid, and you won't be caught in the misnomer of "backing."
Thank you for clearing that up and your insight on backing I think I shall not loosely throw it around so much anymore. |
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Xenland (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 980
Merit: 1003
I'm not just any shaman, I'm a Sha256man
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April 09, 2012, 01:29:27 AM |
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Looks like were going in circles...
So you are attacking USD for being backed by nothing at all (and now I'm thinking you want it to be backed by gold), but support Bitcoin which is also backed by nothing... That's where you lose me. Your given reason for disliking fiat can be also applied to Bitcoin. Back OT, I support Bitcoin because I think it will kill Paypal. This is a much shorter term and much more realistic goal than ending world fiat, and it will probably fly better in the geek subforum as well. I think more then one currency should exist as it should today but I just want to make everyone aware of Bitcoins advantages. Yes I admit that I threw out the word "backing" ignorantly. |
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Xenland (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 980
Merit: 1003
I'm not just any shaman, I'm a Sha256man
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April 09, 2012, 01:31:00 AM |
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These academics are starting to annoy me. It's often the little, throw-away comments that they slip into a conversation that reveal certain barriers in their thinking... For example: Yes, most governments do have the power to stop inofficial currencies from being used, including yours and mine. I know theres a lot of buzz around bitcoins at the moment but I know just as well that the wise decision is not to invest there.
(bold added) How does that person know whether something is a wise decision or not, regarding Bitcoin? Wisdom implies experience and learning. Did they have a bad experience with Bitcoin? Based on the small size of the Bitcoin economy, it's quite unlikely for any of them to have encountered Bitcoin first-hand. Unless they have some actual experience with Bitcoin, they don't know whether avoiding it is wise or not. They may think they're being cautious or conservative, but a claim to wisdom is bogus. Its conversations like these which is the exact reason why I started this thread. Its just amazing how quick everyone has preconceptions of their own perfect lives. They are happy with what they have and don't want to spend the time to even just read 5-10 minutes up on the subject to see if there is something better. |
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Xenland (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 980
Merit: 1003
I'm not just any shaman, I'm a Sha256man
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April 09, 2012, 01:35:38 AM |
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No offense, I get what you're going for, but you do totally look like a schill on that thread with the Bitcoin avatar and WeUseCoins.com link. It's not just an open-source project - it's an investment and people will view it just as suspiciously as they've learned to. Let them Google it themselves so the information feels more legitimate.
It's surprising to me how even highly technical people can think that Bitcoin has been hacked, or that a government could shut it down.
You haven't even questioned my intentions so I highly doubt you are knowledgeable of them. But i was going for just throwing something out there and collecting reaction & cognitive thinking data -- AKA Psychological research...... With the answers I've gotten in response to people and its threads like the one I linked is a perfect example of how people think about a new idea in relation to Bitcoin. And these types of responses are what I get from everyday conversations with money & Bitcoins solutions in face to face conversations. Its responses and thinking like this that makes me think that Bitcoin will probably take 5-10 years (or USD/fiat collapse) before anyone is open to the idea of using Bitcoins beyond video game currencies and illegal activity which is alot longer then I originally had thought which was in the next 2-3 years |
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Maged
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1015
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April 09, 2012, 05:19:09 AM |
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No offense, I get what you're going for, but you do totally look like a schill on that thread with the Bitcoin avatar and WeUseCoins.com link. It's not just an open-source project - it's an investment and people will view it just as suspiciously as they've learned to. Let them Google it themselves so the information feels more legitimate.
It's surprising to me how even highly technical people can think that Bitcoin has been hacked, or that a government could shut it down.
You haven't even questioned my intentions so I highly doubt you are knowledgeable of them. But i was going for just throwing something out there and collecting reaction & cognitive thinking data -- AKA Psychological research...... With the answers I've gotten in response to people and its threads like the one I linked is a perfect example of how people think about a new idea in relation to Bitcoin. And these types of responses are what I get from everyday conversations with money & Bitcoins solutions in face to face conversations. Its responses and thinking like this that makes me think that Bitcoin will probably take 5-10 years (or USD/fiat collapse) before anyone is open to the idea of using Bitcoins beyond video game currencies and illegal activity which is alot longer then I originally had thought which was in the next 2-3 years Ask yourself: how long did the internet take? That's the best case scenario for Bitcoin. Why you thought 2-3 years was even possible is beyond me. Bitcoin might be commonplace enough for everyday usage in 20 years. Try to stay focused. |
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Phinnaeus Gage
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
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April 09, 2012, 06:00:37 AM |
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No offense, I get what you're going for, but you do totally look like a schill on that thread with the Bitcoin avatar and WeUseCoins.com link. It's not just an open-source project - it's an investment and people will view it just as suspiciously as they've learned to. Let them Google it themselves so the information feels more legitimate.
It's surprising to me how even highly technical people can think that Bitcoin has been hacked, or that a government could shut it down.
You haven't even questioned my intentions so I highly doubt you are knowledgeable of them. But i was going for just throwing something out there and collecting reaction & cognitive thinking data -- AKA Psychological research...... With the answers I've gotten in response to people and its threads like the one I linked is a perfect example of how people think about a new idea in relation to Bitcoin. And these types of responses are what I get from everyday conversations with money & Bitcoins solutions in face to face conversations. Its responses and thinking like this that makes me think that Bitcoin will probably take 5-10 years (or USD/fiat collapse) before anyone is open to the idea of using Bitcoins beyond video game currencies and illegal activity which is alot longer then I originally had thought which was in the next 2-3 years Ask yourself: how long did the internet take? That's the best case scenario for Bitcoin. Why you thought 2-3 years was even possible is beyond me. Bitcoin might be commonplace enough for everyday usage in 20 years. Try to stay focused. As if I wanted to hear that upon seeing this:  |
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