I visited BFL, any questions ?

[rjk]

I'm sure they have both regretted taking him up, and also embraced the business opportunity, since there was and continues to be so much bullshit and flak from bitcoiners, but also so many orders. The Bitcoiner is an enigma, really. 2 parts asshole to 1 part greedy consumer, for most.

Ztex, ngazhang and FPGAmining don't have to take 'bullshit and flak' from bitcoiners (except the one dude who decided to buy Icarus when ngzhang already stopped making them, and he decided to bash Chinese for the size of their dong, lol). I am not Chinese by the way

The problem doesn't lie with bitcoiners, it lies with BFL.

Not even right at the very beginning when they first offered their products? And I mean in general as well, not necessarily specific cases.

[antirack]

No, not even at the beginning. The BS already started at that time.

For instance, the (now defunct) company registration under "BF Labs" in Wyoming because of tax reasons and it's supposedly the place to be for Furtune 500 companies.

Wyoming is a very odd choice for tax reasons. And there are no Fortune 500 incorporations in Wyoming. Heck, we don't even know if this is really their own business registration and they are not just pointing at it.

The list of BFL BS is never ending. They must be thinking we are all complete idiots.

Their only advantage is that some people here on the forums decided to defend them. Maybe because they are trying to convince themselves that they put their money on the winning horse, or maybe because they are really confident in what they are doing. But that doesn't change the fact that sending your money to BFL is extremely risky (even leaving out all the Bitcoin related risks).

[darkice]

No, not even at the beginning. The BS already started at that time.

For instance, the (now defunct) company registration under "BF Labs" in Wyoming because of tax reasons and it's supposedly the place to be for Furtune 500 companies.

Wyoming is a very odd choice for tax reasons. And there are no Fortune 500 incorporations in Wyoming. Heck, we don't even know if this is really their own business registration and they are not just pointing at it.

The list of BFL BS is never ending. They must be thinking we are all complete idiots.

Their only advantage is that some people here on the forums decided to defend them. Maybe because they are trying to convince themselves that they put their money on the winning horse, or maybe because they are really confident in what they are doing. But that doesn't change the fact that sending your money to BFL is extremely risky (even leaving out all the Bitcoin related risks).

I'm not defending anyone here , this is not a thread about your opinions, if you have opinions on the subject, please open up a new thread and voice them there.

stop trolling.

[antirack]

I was talking to rjk and he was talking to me.

If you believe I am trolling you got the wrong idea.

And last time I checked this was a public forum.

I'm not defending anyone here

You are not? Let me quote the opening paragraph in your initial post in this thread.

If you have any doubts about about their operation or intentions you can relax, they are really working hard, trying to answer every question you ask from emails to forums, they value your opinions, and they are really trying hard to meet the deadlines they promised.

But in general I wasn't even referring to you directly.

We already have enough BFL threads, I am not going to open a new one.

[DILLIGAF]

The list of BFL BS is never ending. They must be thinking we are all complete idiots.

After seeing the things people do around here I almost think I would be in agreement with them, if that is indeed what they think.

[darkice]

Arguing about it at this point is pointless, It won't change anything , We'll see in a few months anyway , be patient

[bitcoindaddy]

I walked past the future offices of BFL twelve years ago, ask me anything....

Joking aside, the reason people were excited about this thread and subsequently disappointed with its lack of useful information is that BFL is NOT transparent. If they want people to trust them, they need to be a lot more open about their business. If they know they are going to be late with shipments, be HONEST about it. If they have only 150 units for this batch and anyone ordering now won't get theirs until August, BE HONEST about it. We can handle the truth.

Why is there so much secrecy surrounding this company? Why doesn't "sonny" reveal his real name?  Are they dealing with gray market or worse, goods that they would be ashamed to admit they are using that they have to sand the part numbers off of? Are they worried about retaliation? From whom?  Are they worried about the Feds? The IRS? Are they worried about us? All very strange.

[Inaba]

Joking aside, the reason people were excited about this thread and subsequently disappointed with its lack of useful information is that BFL is NOT transparent. If they want people to trust them, they need to be a lot more open about their business. If they know they are going to be late with shipments, be HONEST about it. If they have only 150 units for this batch and anyone ordering now won't get theirs until August, BE HONEST about it. We can handle the truth.

WTF, seriously?  Are you trolling or just an idiot naturally?  They are perfectly open about their business.  Have they incorrectly estimated ship and development time in the past?  Yes, of course.  But have they been dishonest about it?  No.  They did not understand exactly what they were getting into in the beginning, yes they are guilty of ignorance.  

As far as shipping dates goes, they seem to be hitting their targets lately, they are saying 15 weeks on MR's, which puts you into August, so we'll see if they are accurate there.

Why is there so much secrecy surrounding this company? Why doesn't "sonny" reveal his real name?  Are they dealing with gray market or worse, goods that they would be ashamed to admit they are using that they have to sand the part numbers off of? Are they worried about retaliation? From whom?  Are they worried about the Feds? The IRS? Are they worried about us? All very strange.

What secrecy?  Sonny is his real name, what ever gave you the idea it wasn't?  With people like you on the forums, it's a wonder he even has given his real name.  Posts like yours are so tiring... they are so full of bullshit, lies and half-truths that are completely disconnected from reality, it's almost painful.  I question how it's even possible to become so misinformed in the first place if you've even read 1/100 of the posts made already.  You keep spouting the same shit you heard from someone else who was just as misinformed as you now are.  If you don't know something first hand, take your hands off the keyboard, step  back and refrain from posting, since you don't know shit, your opinion is irrelevant.

Above all else, if you don't like them, don't trust them, hate them, etc... DON'T BUY THEIR EQUIPMENT!  Quit bitching about it.  Vote with your dollars and go elsewhere.  They don't need your business, and probably don't even want it even if they did.  As you've so conveniently pointed out by reference, they have more business than they can handle at the moment, so you not buying anything from them is not going to cause a problem, so stop bitching.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Have they incorrectly estimated ship and development time in the past?  Yes, of course.  But have they been dishonest about it?  No.  They did not understand exactly what they were getting into in the beginning, yes they are guilty of ignorance.  

As far as shipping dates goes, they seem to be hitting their targets lately, they are saying 15 weeks on MR's, which puts you into August, so we'll see if they are accurate there.

Come on this is just asinine.  THEY ARE STILL SAYING 4-6 weeks for a single.
As far as "meeting shipping targets".  Not one single order has shipped in <6 weeks.  How exactly is that meeting targets?

It wasn't they were wrong about shipping back in Nov and then quickly provided more realistic estimates.

In Oct offered boards for delivery in 4-6 weeks for new orders.
In Nov (nothing had shipped and they realized their performance/power estimates were way) knowing it would require new boards guaranteed delivery on new orders in 4-6 weeks.
In Dec (nothing had shipped) still guaranteed delivery on new orders in 4-6 weeks.
In Jan (nothing had shipped and they had delays due to Chinese new year) still guaranteed delivery on new orders in 4-6 weeks.
In Feb finally shipped the first boards had huge backlog and ... still guaranteed delivery on new orders in 4-6 weeks.
In March had some delays, very early (up to Dec) boards shipped and ... still guaranteed delivery on new orders in 4-6 weeks.
In April the January orders (mostly?) shipped but they haven't even touched the Feb, March, April orders but new orders ... still guaranteed delivery on new orders in 4-6 weeks.

99% of the complaints against BFL are just stupid but defending their shipping timelines and saying they are "meeting shipping targets" is just as stupid.

You think they are on "target"?    How about a bet?  I will buy a Single today and if it ships in <6 weeks I pay you $600 (or equiv in BTC).  If it doesn't you pay me $600.  Why $600?  Well because I am 100% convinced I would get the Single for free I just won't be getting it in no 6 weeks.

[darkice]

I walked past the future offices of BFL twelve years ago, ask me anything....

Joking aside, the reason people were excited about this thread and subsequently disappointed with its lack of useful information is that BFL is NOT transparent. If they want people to trust them, they need to be a lot more open about their business. If they know they are going to be late with shipments, be HONEST about it. If they have only 150 units for this batch and anyone ordering now won't get theirs until August, BE HONEST about it. We can handle the truth.

Why is there so much secrecy surrounding this company? Why doesn't "sonny" reveal his real name?  Are they dealing with gray market or worse, goods that they would be ashamed to admit they are using that they have to sand the part numbers off of? Are they worried about retaliation? From whom?  Are they worried about the Feds? The IRS? Are they worried about us? All very strange.

there is nothing strange about it, you give them money , they give you equipment. It is a two sided equation, I'm happy as a customer, they are happy as the manifacturer, you are not in the equation , please stop trolling, and I also completely agree with what Inaba said above.

[rjk]

You think they are on "target"?    How about a bet?  I will buy a Single today and if it ships in <6 weeks I pay you $600 (or equiv in BTC).  If it doesn't you pay me $600.  Why $600?  Well because I am 100% convinced I would get the Single for free I just won't be getting it in no 6 weeks.

At this point, I'd take you up on it, but I need the money elsewhere, not sitting in escrow for 6 weeks.

[Inaba]

I will take you up on that bet, DT.  Absolutely. Order that single today and and show me a receipt of the order and we'll see on the 24th if you have one for free or not.

[DeathAndTaxes]

I will take you up on that bet, DT.  Absolutely. Order that single today and and show me a receipt of the order and we'll see on the 24th if you have one for free or not.

Ordered.  PM sent for receipt.

I may be the only person w/ an ordered Single which is hoping it arrives in >43 days.

[spiccioli]

I will take you up on that bet, DT.  Absolutely. Order that single today and and show me a receipt of the order and we'll see on the 24th if you have one for free or not.

Will do.

Wait,

the one that orders has to be unknown to BFL, otherwise BFL could just send out a unit to show it can deliver.



spiccioli.

[rjk]

I will take you up on that bet, DT.  Absolutely. Order that single today and and show me a receipt of the order and we'll see on the 24th if you have one for free or not.

Will do.

Wait,

the one that orders has to be unknown to BFL, otherwise BFL could just send out a unit to show it can deliver.



spiccioli.

Yeah like it's going to say "DeathAndTaxes" on the shipping label heh.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Yeah like it's going to say "DeathAndTaxes" on the shipping label heh.

I don't get the joke.  Death A. Taxes is my legal name. 

Still I think people in this thread might get a little suspicious if I get my order before they get theirs.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67887.0

[exahash]

For instance, the (now defunct) company registration under "BF Labs" in Wyoming because of tax reasons and it's supposedly the place to be for Furtune 500 companies.

Wyoming is a very odd choice for tax reasons. And there are no Fortune 500 incorporations in Wyoming. Heck, we don't even know if this is really their own business registration and they are not just pointing at it.

Just on your point about Wyoming... Wyoming was the first state to allow formation of LLC's, thus it has the most established case law.  Many lawyers still recommend "incorporating" as a Wyoming LLC.  For more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_liability_company and do a find-in-page on Wyoming.

[spiccioli]

I will take you up on that bet, DT.  Absolutely. Order that single today and and show me a receipt of the order and we'll see on the 24th if you have one for free or not.

Will do.

Wait,

the one that orders has to be unknown to BFL, otherwise BFL could just send out a unit to show it can deliver.



spiccioli.

Yeah like it's going to say "DeathAndTaxes" on the shipping label heh.

Gosh!

sometimes I completely forget that there is a real life out there

spiccioli

[ice_chill]

Trying to order a Mini-Rig, they have sent me very lousy bank details, when I tell them I need SWIFT number and IBAN number for Internatinal transfer, they say the have no idea what these are.

I have doubt about trusting these people now.

[bulanula]

Trying to order a Mini-Rig, they have sent me very lousy bank details, when I tell them I need SWIFT number and IBAN number for Internatinal transfer, they say the have no idea what these are.

I have doubt about trusting these people now.

Don't worry about it.

Just hand over the money to them.

I am sure they will deliver !!!

Maybe you spoke to the Ninja old lady ( people of her age don't usually know what SWIFT / IBAN is ) so try asking / calling again and ask for Sonny maybe ...