Bitcoin Forum
November 02, 2024, 03:36:01 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 28.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: difficulty went down  (Read 2585 times)
chiropteran (OP)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 348
Merit: 250



View Profile WWW
April 13, 2012, 03:40:06 AM
 #1

Is this summer heat shutting some miners down, or is this a result of dumb miners wasting work without the current version making invalid blocks?  A little of both, I guess.

Or is there another explanation?

Stephen Gornick
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2506
Merit: 1010


View Profile
April 13, 2012, 04:41:24 AM
Last edit: April 14, 2012, 06:36:19 AM by Stephen Gornick
 #2

Well, the prior adjustment period had an increase of 8.5% so this drop of 3% doesn't even reverse half of the previous rise.
 - http://bit.ly/HCbFOp (difficulty history spreadsheet)

There definitely was a fair amount of wasted hashes on blocks that became orphaned but there's been enough time for miners to have updated and the hashing level hasn't yet turned back upward.
 - http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-2k.png

There are miners rotating out of GPU mining and delving into FPGA mining, so during that transition there is a period where some are doing no mining, particularly if they need the proceeds of the hardware sales to fund the purchase of the FPGAs.  Even then, many end up on a waiting list for the FGPAs ordered, in the meantime.

Here's one miner that is making that switch:
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75616.0

Unichange.me

            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █


freshzive
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 447
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 13, 2012, 03:55:38 PM
 #3

I'll take it!

Shadow383
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 14, 2012, 01:47:01 AM
 #4

The large botnet that was mining zero-transaction blocks appears to have stopped, at least for the time being, but the increase won't be fully reversed due to the increase in FPGA mining and the greater hashrates of the 7xxx series ATI cards.
If BFL for example were to clear their backlog of orders we'd probably see 2000000+ difficulty in no time at all.
rograz
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 575
Merit: 500


View Profile
April 14, 2012, 08:33:05 PM
 #5

It somewhat get's mitigated by ppl dropping out tho, at least here in Europe a lot of ppl are very close to where it isn't worth the hassle when running old 58xx rigs around 2mh/w (unless you undervolt) and paying 0.15$+ per kwh.
Raize
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1419
Merit: 1015


View Profile
April 15, 2012, 05:06:57 PM
 #6

Well, the prior adjustment period had an increase of 8.5% so this drop of 3% doesn't even reverse half of the previous rise.
 - http://bit.ly/HCbFOp (difficulty history spreadsheet)

There definitely was a fair amount of wasted hashes on blocks that became orphaned but there's been enough time for miners to have updated and the hashing level hasn't yet turned back upward.
 - http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-2k.png

There are miners rotating out of GPU mining and delving into FPGA mining, so during that transition there is a period where some are doing no mining, particularly if they need the proceeds of the hardware sales to fund the purchase of the FPGAs.  Even then, many end up on a waiting list for the FGPAs ordered, in the meantime.

Here's one miner that is making that switch:
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75616.0


Stephen's right. He even correctly pointed out mrb who was known to have 15 gh/s as of last year:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=6169.msg91235#msg91235

I'm pretty sure most of the more establish miners are moving to FPGAs either now or soon. I'm sure they are looking at this summer and cooling costs and focusing more on getting a better hash/joule right now. I'm actually looking at doing the same, but I'm still (mostly anyway) accumulating coin instead of selling.
Meni Rosenfeld
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2058
Merit: 1054



View Profile WWW
April 15, 2012, 05:12:58 PM
 #7

Even if the total network hashrate remains fixed, difficulty adjustments of ~5% are to be expected simply due to randomness.

1EofoZNBhWQ3kxfKnvWkhtMns4AivZArhr   |   Who am I?   |   bitcoin-otc WoT
Bitcoil - Exchange bitcoins for ILS (thread)   |   Israel Bitcoin community homepage (thread)
Analysis of Bitcoin Pooled Mining Reward Systems (thread, summary)  |   PureMining - Infinite-term, deterministic mining bond
Tittiez
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 686
Merit: 500



View Profile
April 15, 2012, 06:29:51 PM
 #8

Even if the total network hashrate remains fixed, difficulty adjustments of ~5% are to be expected simply due to randomness.

At the moment the next re-target is expecting -13.73%, doesn't look much like randomness.
the joint
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020



View Profile
April 15, 2012, 07:07:27 PM
 #9

Even if the total network hashrate remains fixed, difficulty adjustments of ~5% are to be expected simply due to randomness.

At the moment the next re-target is expecting -13.73%, doesn't look much like randomness.

That's likely because we're only ~19% through this difficulty period.

Imagine if the first block after a difficulty change took 1 minute to solve -- then, you might 'expect' a -90% difficulty adjustment the next time.  But, if the 2nd block takes 59 minutes, then you'd be looking at a +600% difficulty adjustment.

Yes, there is going to be some variance in mining power over a 2 week period.  But, there is also going to be variance in luck.  13.73% variance over a period of a 2-3 days can be expected.
antares
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518
Merit: 500


View Profile
April 15, 2012, 10:29:38 PM
 #10

Imagine if the first block after a difficulty change took 1 minute to solve -- then, you might 'expect' a -90% difficulty adjustment the next time.  But, if the 2nd block takes 59 minutes, then you'd be looking at a +600% difficulty adjustment.

max readjustment is 400% up and down.
however, we are currently seeing a drop in hashing power of about 20-30%. this isnt normal fluctuation. I'd be rather interested in what is the real cause for this.
the joint
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020



View Profile
April 15, 2012, 11:47:44 PM
 #11

Imagine if the first block after a difficulty change took 1 minute to solve -- then, you might 'expect' a -90% difficulty adjustment the next time.  But, if the 2nd block takes 59 minutes, then you'd be looking at a +600% difficulty adjustment.

max readjustment is 400% up and down.
however, we are currently seeing a drop in hashing power of about 20-30%. this isnt normal fluctuation. I'd be rather interested in what is the real cause for this.

Ah, thanks for reminding me about max adjustment.

One possibility though is summer heat.

I'm getting about 10-15% fewer m/hash come to think of it because I've had to downclock.
Littleshop
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1386
Merit: 1004



View Profile WWW
April 16, 2012, 08:57:06 PM
 #12

Imagine if the first block after a difficulty change took 1 minute to solve -- then, you might 'expect' a -90% difficulty adjustment the next time.  But, if the 2nd block takes 59 minutes, then you'd be looking at a +600% difficulty adjustment.

max readjustment is 400% up and down.
however, we are currently seeing a drop in hashing power of about 20-30%. this isnt normal fluctuation. I'd be rather interested in what is the real cause for this.

Ah, thanks for reminding me about max adjustment.

One possibility though is summer heat.

I'm getting about 10-15% fewer m/hash come to think of it because I've had to downclock.

Ditto.  I switched (just in time) most of my rigs to summer mode.  I do about 20% less.  I am underclocked and undervolted now. 

DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079


Gerald Davis


View Profile
April 16, 2012, 09:03:36 PM
 #13

Ditto.  I switched (just in time) most of my rigs to summer mode.  I do about 20% less.  I am underclocked and undervolted now. 

Same here although the watercooled ones are running at 15% higher clock.  Just need to get all the rigs converted. Smiley
TheHarbinger
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 378
Merit: 250


Why is it so damn hot in here?


View Profile
April 16, 2012, 09:27:16 PM
 #14

I had to downclock about a month and a half ago.   Undecided   I fucking hate Florida.

12Um6jfDE7q6crm1s6tSksMvda8s1hZ3Vj
disclaimer201
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1526
Merit: 1001


View Profile
April 16, 2012, 10:44:32 PM
 #15

I had to downclock about a month and a half ago.   Undecided   I fucking hate Florida.

If you're in Florida, you definetely need FPGAs. How do you even deal with all those power outages over there? This must be killing rigs, too.

Greetings from a much too cold spring in Central Europe! Temps are still higher 40s during the day and 36 F right now (midnight).  Grin
the joint
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020



View Profile
April 16, 2012, 10:53:46 PM
 #16

Speaking of heat and cooling, my current cooling setup is....odd.

Apparently, my rig is cooler with my desktop-case closed rather than leaving the sides of the case open (thanks to the CoolerMaster fans I'm guessing).  Interestingly, an open case with a desk fan blowing directly on the cards is hotter.

Even more interestingly, taking a desk fan and blowing it through one of the CoolerMaster case fans (fan squared) is the coolest.

Go figure.
disclaimer201
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1526
Merit: 1001


View Profile
April 16, 2012, 11:05:06 PM
 #17

Speaking of heat and cooling, my current cooling setup is....odd.

Apparently, my rig is cooler with my desktop-case closed rather than leaving the sides of the case open (thanks to the CoolerMaster fans I'm guessing).  Interestingly, an open case with a desk fan blowing directly on the cards is hotter.

Even more interestingly, taking a desk fan and blowing it through one of the CoolerMaster case fans (fan squared) is the coolest.

Go figure.

Not so odd at all. It's all about airflow and effective heat dissipation. If you leave out the sides, you ruin the airflow inside your case. Adding more fans, even a deskfan, won't help the heat to leave the case. Worst case you will just mix the hot air and a lot of it'll stay in the case. This, and the fact that open cases tend to accumulate much more dust and will build up additional heat made me go back to closed cases and air filters.
the joint
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020



View Profile
April 16, 2012, 11:14:34 PM
 #18

Speaking of heat and cooling, my current cooling setup is....odd.

Apparently, my rig is cooler with my desktop-case closed rather than leaving the sides of the case open (thanks to the CoolerMaster fans I'm guessing).  Interestingly, an open case with a desk fan blowing directly on the cards is hotter.

Even more interestingly, taking a desk fan and blowing it through one of the CoolerMaster case fans (fan squared) is the coolest.

Go figure.

Not so odd at all. It's all about airflow and effective heat dissipation. If you leave out the sides, you ruin the airflow inside your case. Adding more fans, even a deskfan, won't help the heat to leave the case. Worst case you will just mix the hot air and a lot of it'll stay in the case. This, and the fact that open cases tend to accumulate much more dust and will build up additional heat made me go back to closed cases and air filters.

Word.  CoolerMaster rocks.
Raize
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1419
Merit: 1015


View Profile
April 17, 2012, 12:12:07 AM
 #19

It's also worth noting that Microsoft and some antivirus vendors took down a botnet that was supposedly mining on the Bitcoin network recently too, at one point it was getting between 15-20% of the mined coin by some estimations. I don't think it was recent enough to account for the present drop that looks to be a pretty steep one, but like others have said, give it another thousand blocks before trying to really estimate it.
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!