Bitcoin adoption leads to Bitcoin price erosion?

[bizzyb]

As the froth starts to settle from the November/December 2013 insanity, does the reflection in the BTC price erosion show that increased adoption increases liquidity, depressing the price?

Is it likely, regardless of it's deflationary nature, that due to the many many decimal places BTC can be split up into, there will be increasing attrition on it's "price" in fiat....and is this likely to be closer to the $100 mark rather than the $1000 mark (or $100,000 mark so many wish for).

Is that the compromise that has to be made?  The more mainstream Bitcoin becomes, the more eroded the price will become?

Interested to hear your views, I think this may be mine, for now....

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[Envrin]

No, we just need people / companies to begin holding bitcoin more.  It's great that larger players have begun accepting bitcoin (Dell, Expedia, Newegg, etc.), but the problem is they sell the BTC instantly after receiving it.  So all of their incoming funds are going straight to fiat, helping keep the price down.

[bizzyb]

No, we just need people / companies to begin holding bitcoin more.  It's great that larger players have begun accepting bitcoin (Dell, Expedia, Newegg, etc.), but the problem is they sell the BTC instantly after receiving it.  So all of their incoming funds are going straight to fiat, helping keep the price down.

I don't see Dell, or Expedia, or OverStock holding BTC.  Too much risk involved for a 2% saving on avoided credit card fees.

The paradox for Bitcoin is for adoption to succeed, requires merchants to accept, however they convert to fiat, subsequently increasing BTC availability driving down price.

Does this mean there is the potential for this status quo to continue, and it is likely we have seen the peaks of BTC, and it's price will slowly erode as adoption increases.

[TheButterZone]

http://twitter.com/TheButterZone/status/501497553545093120

http://www.coindesk.com/citi-miners-merchants-keeping-bitcoin-prices-check/

[Ardenyham]

No, we just need people / companies to begin holding bitcoin more.  It's great that larger players have begun accepting bitcoin (Dell, Expedia, Newegg, etc.), but the problem is they sell the BTC instantly after receiving it.  So all of their incoming funds are going straight to fiat, helping keep the price down.

We need the companies paying its employees in Bitcoin, at least bonuses. This way Bitcoin will be adopted faster. If it becomes standard like -5% off the price if paid with bitcoin, employees themselves will want at least part of their wage paid in Bitcoin. I guess in few years this become reality.

[bizzyb]

http://twitter.com/TheButterZone/status/501497553545093120

http://www.coindesk.com/citi-miners-merchants-keeping-bitcoin-prices-check/

Good read...
I am getting the feeling those holding BTC wanted adoption for the price rise.....but woah!!! Not too much adoption please, as the price will drop !

It's interesting..perhaps the price will drop even harder over the coming years as those early adopter holders realise they may as well realise a fiat return on their holdings before it gets eroded any more, driving the price even further down.

It's so cool watching such early stages of the growth of a "currency"....

[bizzyb]

No, we just need people / companies to begin holding bitcoin more.  It's great that larger players have begun accepting bitcoin (Dell, Expedia, Newegg, etc.), but the problem is they sell the BTC instantly after receiving it.  So all of their incoming funds are going straight to fiat, helping keep the price down.

We need the companies paying its employees in Bitcoin, at least bonuses. This way Bitcoin will be adopted faster. If it becomes standard like -5% off the price if paid with bitcoin, employees themselves will want at least part of their wage paid in Bitcoin. I guess in few years this become reality.

Further increasing the availability of BTC, further eroding the price.....
adoption = price erosion

[Ardenyham]

We need the companies paying its employees in Bitcoin, at least bonuses. This way Bitcoin will be adopted faster. If it becomes standard like -5% off the price if paid with bitcoin, employees themselves will want at least part of their wage paid in Bitcoin. I guess in few years this become reality.

Further increasing the availability of BTC, further eroding the price.....
adoption = price erosion

Bitcoin price goes down only when the Bitcoin is sold at exchange. If the Bitcoin is used to buy goods and merchant give part of the Bitcoin to its employees instead of insta sell at exchange, it has positive effect on Bitcoin price (and adoption). You can not expect the merchants to hoard Bitcoins, neither they hoard fiat...

[bizzyb]

We need the companies paying its employees in Bitcoin, at least bonuses. This way Bitcoin will be adopted faster. If it becomes standard like -5% off the price if paid with bitcoin, employees themselves will want at least part of their wage paid in Bitcoin. I guess in few years this become reality.

Further increasing the availability of BTC, further eroding the price.....
adoption = price erosion

Bitcoin price goes down only when the Bitcoin is sold at exchange. If the Bitcoin is used to buy goods and merchant give part of the Bitcoin to its employees instead of insta sell at exchange, it has positive effect on Bitcoin price (and adoption). You can not expect the merchants to hoard Bitcoins, neither they hoard fiat...

Employees wouldn't hoard bitcoin either...same effect...increased liquidity in the market... Squeezes the price...

[ixne]

A few points:

1) There is no legal or accounting infrastructure for large established companies to hold bitcoin in any meaningful amount.  Quite frankly, it would be negligence on the part of such companies to do so, as it would be tantamount to directly diverting gross income into an extremely volatile quasi-legal (especially for international companies) investment.  That said, even allowing bitcoin to be transacted is a huge, huge step towards building the bitcoin infrastructure and maybe towards these companies holding a position in bitcoin.

2) For years, people have been lamenting hoarders who do nothing with their bitcoins, creating a vicious and ultimately destructive cycle of price increases and further holding that would doom the currency to irrelevance.  Now that people are spending their bitcoins and the price is dropping, people are complaining of the exact opposite phenomenon.  Personally, I think that circulation of bitcoins is much more important than inflating the price.

3) Bitcoin is still in an inflationary stage - somewhere around 10% per year - and miners have (increasing) fixed costs that need to be recouped in fiat.  Frankly I'm surprised the price has held up so well.  That said, I don't expect any serious increases until the next block halving in 2016.

[psudoBTC]

We need the companies paying its employees in Bitcoin, at least bonuses. This way Bitcoin will be adopted faster. If it becomes standard like -5% off the price if paid with bitcoin, employees themselves will want at least part of their wage paid in Bitcoin. I guess in few years this become reality.

Further increasing the availability of BTC, further eroding the price.....
adoption = price erosion

Bitcoin price goes down only when the Bitcoin is sold at exchange. If the Bitcoin is used to buy goods and merchant give part of the Bitcoin to its employees instead of insta sell at exchange, it has positive effect on Bitcoin price (and adoption). You can not expect the merchants to hoard Bitcoins, neither they hoard fiat...

I think we are still some ways away from the time that a company can use the bitcoin they receive to pay their employees, and suppliers, and the employees/suppliers do the same (the employees spend it on actual goods/services). Until then we will likely see somewhat selling pressure as adoption increases, however we will hopefully also see buying demand from investors.

[jjacob]

No, we just need people / companies to begin holding bitcoin more.  It's great that larger players have begun accepting bitcoin (Dell, Expedia, Newegg, etc.), but the problem is they sell the BTC instantly after receiving it.  So all of their incoming funds are going straight to fiat, helping keep the price down.

We need the companies paying its employees in Bitcoin, at least bonuses. This way Bitcoin will be adopted faster. If it becomes standard like -5% off the price if paid with bitcoin, employees themselves will want at least part of their wage paid in Bitcoin. I guess in few years this become reality.

If employees are paid bonuses in bitcoins, most of them will cash out / spend it anyway.
A lot of people would be thinking of going on a vacation / making a down payment on their mortgage, etc.

[alani123]

That's not how it works. Payment solution providers like BitPay and Coinbase have their ways for not crashing the markets. Even though both receive huge volumes of transactions the internal exchanging keeps the price almost unaffected.

[vuduchyld]

I think this is something of a BTC old wives tale.  I really do NOT think that adoption drops the price.  I would strongly suspect that MOST of the time people make BTC purchases on NewEgg, Dell, Expedia, etc... the purchaser replenishes their BTC stock.  I don't think the companies hold it aggressively, but I'd suspect that as it grows, some companies will employ a hedging strategy, similar to what Coca Cola does with foreign currency.

It is true that as a currency gains velocity, the amount of currency required to sustain some level of activity does drop.  This is economic fact.  But with BTC, it is nowhere NEAR an even trade.  I can't prove it, yet, but I strongly suspect that the usage (causing an increase) far outweighs the velocity (which causes a decrease). 

There are obviously some other pressures on the price, but adoption is, I strongly believe, a net positive on price movement. 

Let some things run their course.  The future is very bright for BTC. That future may very well not start in the next 60 days, but it will come.

[NapoleonBonaparte]

I think this is something of a BTC old wives tale.  I really do NOT think that adoption drops the price.  I would strongly suspect that MOST of the time people make BTC purchases on NewEgg, Dell, Expedia, etc... the purchaser replenishes their BTC stock.  I don't think the companies hold it aggressively, but I'd suspect that as it grows, some companies will employ a hedging strategy, similar to what Coca Cola does with foreign currency.

It is true that as a currency gains velocity, the amount of currency required to sustain some level of activity does drop.  This is economic fact.  But with BTC, it is nowhere NEAR an even trade.  I can't prove it, yet, but I strongly suspect that the usage (causing an increase) far outweighs the velocity (which causes a decrease). 

There are obviously some other pressures on the price, but adoption is, I strongly believe, a net positive on price movement. 

Let some things run their course.  The future is very bright for BTC. That future may very well not start in the next 60 days, but it will come.

Overstock CEO has publicly stated it will hold 10% of the bitcoin holding. If they can somehow integrate the pension system with bitcoin, this will be huge.

[i dig bitcoins]

The huge conundrum with bitcoin is the chicken and egg problem. If consumers are targeted, then where can they spend BTC if no merchants accept it. If merchants are targeted, then where will the consumers
come from if they don't have BTC. The way things are shaping, it seems that merchants are being targeted via Bitpay, Coinbase, et al. Makes sense because there is low risk for merchants to accept bitcoin while
waiting for consumers to use BTC. On the other hand, volatility poses a risk for consumers to hold BTC while waiting for merchants to accept BTC. With the upcoming reward halving and the assumption mass adoption
will eventually occur, it would seem that there is lower risk in the long term. Bitcoin pricing however is a slippery slope...and may cause bar room brawls 

[GreenCoin22]

I also feel very strange. 
why the recent Bitcoin prices fell so much, is there a huge conspiracy?

[exocytosis]

Does this mean there is the potential for this status quo to continue, and it is likely we have seen the peaks of BTC, and it's price will slowly erode as adoption increases.

Yes.
But the cultists will of course deny this.