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Author Topic: usury = not cool  (Read 4586 times)
jixapori
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April 14, 2012, 04:17:43 PM
 #1

-----
...not sure why it seems to be tolerated here.  Please support IBB and
help put these thieves out of business ASAP!

(If there is some service you really need which IBB is not providing, I am
willing to work with them to make it happen, e.g. deposits, at
0% interest of course, chequing, whatever.)
-----

HKUQl1SRTIIVWEIiMfM0REEAWbAionmwSftaVOliUtzm/93Zm6iKklSr9z3oyawZon/LPSYu2tB+R0ViSj6dqD0=
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John (John K.)
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April 14, 2012, 05:05:26 PM
 #2

Can you provide interest free loans for amounts like 10000+ btcs and absorb the damages due to scams?

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April 14, 2012, 05:19:32 PM
 #3

Quote
{0 BTC available}
Roll Eyes

Also most amounts borrowed here would qualify as microcredits. I don't really get why anyone would borrow BTC at such rates or at all, but who am I to judge?

IBB seems to need some steady source of income, I wonder why they didn't buy some of these PPS-mining bonds yet.

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April 14, 2012, 05:42:33 PM
 #4

-----
...not sure why it seems to be tolerated here.  Please support IBB and
help put these thieves out of business ASAP!

(If there is some service you really need which IBB is not providing, I am
willing to work with them to make it happen, e.g. deposits, at
0% interest of course, chequing, whatever.)
-----

HKUQl1SRTIIVWEIiMfM0REEAWbAionmwSftaVOliUtzm/93Zm6iKklSr9z3oyawZon/LPSYu2tB+R0ViSj6dqD0=


It's "tolerated" here because the "usurers" provide a service that others do not, without coercion. We don't have thugs breaking bones, nor do we force people to borrow from us. Additionally, we let people borrow from us without judgment, which I'd imagine you might have trouble doing.

But if you must barge in and start calling honest people thieves (good way to make friends, by the way), would you care to elaborate on how you'd expect large loans to work in this environment? All moralistic "anti-usury" (i.e., interest) proposals I've seen have skirted the issue with fairly minor semantic differences that seem to miss the point. And the actual point is to act against one's own self-interest, so I'm not sure how you'll make that happen without a vengeful god standing menacingly over everyone, ensuring that rational self-interest is preserved with a threat of violence.
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April 14, 2012, 05:46:39 PM
 #5

I'm not sure how you'll make that happen without a vengeful god standing menacingly over everyone, ensuring that rational self-interest is preserved with a threat of violence.

God bless America.

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April 14, 2012, 05:52:23 PM
 #6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJE_Sc1Wags


It takes two.

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copumpkin
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April 14, 2012, 05:57:20 PM
 #7

It's "tolerated" here because the "usurers" provide a service that others do not, without coercion. We don't have thugs breaking bones, nor do we force people to borrow from us. Additionally, we let people borrow from us without judgment, which I'd imagine you might have trouble doing.

But if you must barge in and start calling honest people thieves (good way to make friends, by the way), would you care to elaborate on how you'd expect large loans to work in this environment? All moralistic "anti-usury" (i.e., interest) proposals I've seen have skirted the issue with fairly minor semantic differences that seem to miss the point. And the actual point is to act against one's own self-interest, so I'm not sure how you'll make that happen without a vengeful god standing menacingly over everyone, ensuring that rational self-interest is preserved with a threat of violence.

Just to make things clear: I do think the interest rates are high, and would like them to be lower. But with the number of scammers in the community and the uncertainty over exchange rates, I don't see interest rates going down significantly in the near future.
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April 14, 2012, 05:58:11 PM
 #8

-----
...not sure why it seems to be tolerated here.  Please support IBB and
help put these thieves out of business ASAP!

Theievs? Are you fucking joking? I LOVE the people that "usury" me, They make my life so much better by allowing me to have money WHEN I NEED IT, And all they ask is a service fee.
Sounds like a business to me.

Riddle me this: How can they be Thieves if when they Give You money, and then ASK that you sign a contract that will force you to pay WHAT YOU AGREED TO PAY
It is Impossbile for Anyone of these "usurpers" to "steal" anything from Anyone.

WE ARE GIVING THEM THE MONEY.

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hashking
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April 14, 2012, 05:58:39 PM
 #9

-----
...not sure why it seems to be tolerated here.  Please support IBB and
help put these thieves out of business ASAP!

(If there is some service you really need which IBB is not providing, I am
willing to work with them to make it happen, e.g. deposits, at
0% interest of course, chequing, whatever.)
-----

HKUQl1SRTIIVWEIiMfM0REEAWbAionmwSftaVOliUtzm/93Zm6iKklSr9z3oyawZon/LPSYu2tB+R0ViSj6dqD0=


I dont' think IBB will be able to fund my 15,000 BTC loan request.  Do you think you are able to do it?  You say you are willing to work with them to make it happen.  Also I would be interested in your 0% loan.
Fiyasko
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April 14, 2012, 06:06:20 PM
 #10

-----


I dont' think IBB will be able to fund my 15,000 BTC loan request.  Do you think you are able to do it?  You say you are willing to work with them to make it happen.  Also I would be interested in your 0% loan.

+1

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April 14, 2012, 06:13:35 PM
 #11

Just to make things clear: I do think the interest rates are high, and would like them to be lower. But with the number of scammers in the community and the uncertainty over exchange rates, I don't see interest rates going down significantly in the near future.

I agree with this because the risk is so much higher when lending on here.The uncertainty over the exchange rates makes life more difficult than it ought to be really plus there are a fair number of scammers still on these forums (despite the old scammers being exposed and such).This is what makes risk higher for lenders and so they end up charging higher than ideal interest rates.I once saw a quick loans place in the UK offering loans while charging 9800% interest (for people with bad credit histories and have either been bankrupt or default on their other loans.Places who offer lower interest rates simply won't accept them as customers)

I once agreed to lend 2 BTC to a borrower with little if any reputation (hint look at the gorgo1 loan threads for an example of what I'm talking about) as I thought that it's such a small amount that I'd be ok not charging interest but any larger than that and I'd have to charge interest. In the end,the guy did pay back (several days early in fact) so its a positive start for him but still people need to be more vigilant to avoid being scammed.

As to the point of interest rates (dubbed 'usuary') they are used to help keep the business afloat (and profit if they already broke even),it's not an ideal way in all circumstances to rely on interest rates but we live in a society where interest rates are just common practice and we all have to do what we can to keep ourselves afloat and have a buffer so that people who default/scam can't hurt the lending businesses too much.Interest rates I think should be kept at reasonable levels if at all possible.

Just my 2 cents Smiley

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bitlane
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April 14, 2012, 07:52:48 PM
 #12

-----
...Please support IBB and help put these thieves out of business ASAP!

...... I am willing to work with them to make it happen, e.g. deposits, at
0% interest of course, chequing, whatever.)
-----

Could you please facilitate an interest free 30 day loan of 50 BTC for me ?
thank you.
bitlane.

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April 14, 2012, 08:00:27 PM
 #13

Another factor to consider it Time Value. 30% MPR might not be all that much money for the work being done on the lenders part. However, 300% APR might be. It depends on the amount that is going to be made for the money.

I.E. A 10 BTC Loan for a week at 15% is about $5 for about an hours worth of work. That seems fair.

And it's not just the interest, it is interest based on trust.


Lets test it: Someone loan me 100 BTC send to: 1G12XfoPSLYiCdCH49qtN6NHMmHPQwPUta

I promise to pay back 101 BTC in less than 12 hours. This is all I am willing to do, no other information. If you trust me, get your 1 BTC profit. If you don't, then don't bother me with your questions and pm's.


Corporations have been enthroned, An era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people until wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. ~Abe Lincoln 1ApJdWUdSWYw8n8HEATYhHXA9EYoRTy7c4
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April 14, 2012, 08:27:29 PM
 #14

Another factor to consider it Time Value. 30% MPR might not be all that much money for the work being done on the lenders part. However, 300% APR might be. It depends on the amount that is going to be made for the money.

I.E. A 10 BTC Loan for a week at 15% is about $5 for about an hours worth of work. That seems fair.

And it's not just the interest, it is interest based on trust.


Lets test it: Someone loan me 100 BTC send to: 1G12XfoPSLYiCdCH49qtN6NHMmHPQwPUta

I promise to pay back 101 BTC in less than 12 hours. This is all I am willing to do, no other information. If you trust me, get your 1 BTC profit. If you don't, then don't bother me with your questions and pm's.



http://blockchain.info/tx-index/3925565/0b5b5e607bc88660aadfea59fd57368a229e6b694272aa2ccaaa705886876344

Repay to 147nRtCJTTA1215jYakz7a8tKJvcamdHZ3, thanks Smiley

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April 14, 2012, 08:28:44 PM
 #15

I confirm, I have received 100 BTC. Will repay, shortly.


After I repay, I will do another loan request but this time I will only pay 0.5% of 100 BTC.


This should show that it is a two way street on these loans. The borrower has power also.

Corporations have been enthroned, An era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people until wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. ~Abe Lincoln 1ApJdWUdSWYw8n8HEATYhHXA9EYoRTy7c4
ineededausername
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April 14, 2012, 08:39:43 PM
 #16

I confirm, I have received 100 BTC. Will repay, shortly.


After I repay, I will do another loan request but this time I will only pay 0.5% of 100 BTC.


This should show that it is a two way street on these loans. The borrower has power also.

received 101 BTC Smiley

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April 14, 2012, 08:40:36 PM
 #17

Repayed 101 BTC

http://blockchain.info/address/147nRtCJTTA1215jYakz7a8tKJvcamdHZ3

Corporations have been enthroned, An era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people until wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. ~Abe Lincoln 1ApJdWUdSWYw8n8HEATYhHXA9EYoRTy7c4
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April 14, 2012, 08:42:33 PM
 #18

Someone please loan me: 100 BTC for <24hrs, I will repay at 0.5% for a total of 100.5 BTC.

Someone get their $2.50


edit: oh, send to: 1G12XfoPSLYiCdCH49qtN6NHMmHPQwPUta

same as before.

Corporations have been enthroned, An era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people until wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. ~Abe Lincoln 1ApJdWUdSWYw8n8HEATYhHXA9EYoRTy7c4
copumpkin
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April 14, 2012, 08:45:11 PM
 #19

Someone please loan me: 100 BTC for <24hrs, I will repay at 0.5% for a total of 100.5 BTC.

Someone get their $2.50


edit: oh, send to: 1G12XfoPSLYiCdCH49qtN6NHMmHPQwPUta

same as before.

Done: 18CdYqwkLfmDhjvfueZmDpDcjBRLh8BEXr
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April 14, 2012, 08:45:49 PM
 #20

Confirm, I have received 100 BTC.

Corporations have been enthroned, An era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people until wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. ~Abe Lincoln 1ApJdWUdSWYw8n8HEATYhHXA9EYoRTy7c4
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