Is it possible to destroy Monero (XMR)?

[rpietila]

It seems now that one altcoin, Monero (XMR), is under a constant barrage of attacks against its network + against the community.

It is especially remarkable, because:
- the coin is not in the TOP-10 marketcap,
- does not have a very large or very fast growing usership, and
- its price is not growing very fast.

According to the price history, almost nobody has made any money with it, because the all-time-average price is BTC0.004, and the price today is the same, with very little variation.

I am challenging everyone to find a reason what is behind this attack and hate. Note I am not saying that the attacks and hate are widespread as percentage of forum activists, but the people doing it certainly are very active.

Further, is it possible that the sea of shit in every Monero thread that the trolls leave behind, is giving such a bad impression to a casual reader that they buy into some other coin in its place. Can it be that paying for trolls and sockpuppets actually pays off?

Is the code in such condition that is can be defended against all attacks? Unfortunately it seems that the recent one could only have been pulled out by a person with much better understanding of the Monero code than Monero devs themselves. This is not very flattering towards certain people. (I write it out because not all are in the know: Monero is a community takeover coin that is based on CryptoNote protocol. Other CryptoNote coins are managed by the original CN developers, Monero is the one whose developers did not code the protocol itself.)

Moderation policy: This is an XMR-friendly thread. Any activity that is not furthering the discussion topics of this OP may be deleted and trolls banned. Don't even come if the reason of your coming is to wage the attack that we are discussing how to defend against.

[instacalm]

I am challenging everyone to find a reason what is behind this attack and hate.

The answer is rather easy to find if you ask me. There are plenty of XMR fans and, for some reason, not few offensively-minded at that. The competitive nature of the altcoin forum and the "fighting" among the defenders of various altcoins results in attack and/or hate. The more aggressive a particular projects' defenders promote their cause, the more hate they tend to receive accordingly.

[rpietila]

I am challenging everyone to find a reason what is behind this attack and hate.

The answer is rather easy to find if you ask me. There are plenty of XMR fans and, for some reason, not few offensively-minded at that. The competitive nature of the altcoin forum and the "fighting" among the defenders of various altcoins results in attack and/or hate. The more aggressiv a particular project's defenders promote their cause, the more hate they tend to receive accordingly.

Do the XMR fans go to litter other coin threads? (I don't know because I never visit such) There is a flood of trolls in XMR threads. Is it balanced?

[Melbustus]

...
I am challenging everyone to find a reason what is behind this attack and hate.
...

Seems a simple enough explanation as to what is behind the hate part, anyway. Two big reasons that I can see:


1)
People who got into Bytecoin (and/or the Bytecoin creators themselves) will have a defensive emotional reaction to a derivative coin achieving more market success. They fail to admit the severity of the nastiness surrounding that coin.

2)
This is the alt-coin world. People here have far far less understanding of fundamental economics and market dynamics in general versus the bitcoin mainland. They give far less rational thought to why coins should attain and retain value, what "innovation" really means, and whether a specific technology solves a material need in the market vis-a-vis bitcoin. That's why so many in alt-space just jump from coin to coin, and think there's market-merit in nearly every tweak and "whitepaper".

So then when XMR comes along and gets strong support from people who who've done nothing but bash alts for years, they're left scratching their heads. That inevitably turns to anger, etc. They fail to see that privacy is the *one niche* that people who've thought long and hard about bitcoin/alts/crypto for years have identified as having potential merit. And that XMR is the first coin to implement technically sufficient privacy with a fair-enough launch. Without realizing any of that, I can see how Monero may look odd and lead some of the less diligent thinkers to unfortunate conclusions.

[instacalm]

Do the XMR fans go to litter other coin threads? (I don't know because I never visit such) There is a flood of trolls in XMR threads. Is it balanced?

Frankly I don't know as I don't spend much time reading altcoin ANN threads either. I do however have a general impression that there's a 50/50 split of XMR enthusiasts (and those that don't particularly care) VS. XMR opponents but I'm not an expert on this

[slapper]

I am challenging everyone to find a reason what is behind this attack and hate.

The answer is rather easy to find if you ask me. There are plenty of XMR fans and, for some reason, not few offensively-minded at that. The competitive nature of the altcoin forum and the "fighting" among the defenders of various altcoins results in attack and/or hate. The more aggressiv a particular project's defenders promote their cause, the more hate they tend to receive accordingly.

Do the XMR fans go to litter other coin threads? (I don't know because I never visit such) There is a flood of trolls in XMR threads. Is it balanced?

The day XMR was attacked, one of the more vocal supporters of Monero posted this on the Darkcoin thread

So the guy who sold celeb photos for bitcoin, he should really have used darkcoin...

Why? Bitcoin is as secure as Darkcoin, if he wanted real anonymity he would have used Monero.

These things have been going on for a very long time. I just randomly picked up an example, the newest in my memory.

[darlidada]

Moderation policy: This is an XMR-friendly thread. Any activity that is not furthering the discussion topics of this OP may be deleted and trolls banned. Don't even come if the reason of your coming is to wage the attack that we are discussing how to defend against.

This doesn't help your case. Constant self moderated fanboi threads. Self moderated threads don't go down well in opensource communities.

Self-moderated topics are just here to make the thread more easily to read. If some of you are paranoid about what is deleted, there is a bitcointalk mirror that saves everything that is posted. It's https://bitcointa.lk/ - Feel free to use it. Now that you are aware it exists, attacking a thread because it is self-moderated makes absolutely no sense.

If you ask me, I think most XMR threads should be moderated. Otherwise the constant trolling makes reading a thread very annoying.

[Zombier0]

Its under attaché due to busoni being coverów as Owner of it

[lunokhod2]

I agree that there are more trolls than normal trying to discredit Monero. The rational for this is very clear, as laid out most recently on this thread

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=740112.0

However, to answer your question: will Monero survive? The forces that are trying to discredit it are only strengthening the coin and the community. Monero should be thankful that they are getting such a hard "peer review". This is something that most minor altcoins escape.

[CryptoGretzky]

Moderation policy: This is an XMR-friendly thread. Any activity that is not furthering the discussion topics of this OP may be deleted and trolls banned. Don't even come if the reason of your coming is to wage the attack that we are discussing how to defend against.

This doesn't help your case. Constant self moderated fanboi threads. Self moderated threads don't go down well in opensource communities.

+1  The "attitude" of XMR supporters are quite frankly pretty obnoxious.   All they feel is that XMR is the ONLY coin that matters.   Dude, this is cryptocurrency.   Everyone beside Bitcoin is trying to become the #2 defacto coin, yet XMR people feel that they are #2 already.   That attitude really make the haters hate and some haters have skills that will be able to put a hurt on your coin.

[Melbustus]

...

+1  The "attitude" of XMR supporters are quite frankly pretty obnoxious.   All they feel is that XMR is the ONLY coin that matters.   Dude, this is cryptocurrency.   Everyone beside Bitcoin is trying to become the #2 defacto coin, yet XMR people feel that they are #2 already.   That attitude really make the haters hate and some haters have skills that will be able to put a hurt on your coin.

You must've particularly enjoyed my post up-thread.

[CryptoGretzky]

...

+1  The "attitude" of XMR supporters are quite frankly pretty obnoxious.   All they feel is that XMR is the ONLY coin that matters.   Dude, this is cryptocurrency.   Everyone beside Bitcoin is trying to become the #2 defacto coin, yet XMR people feel that they are #2 already.   That attitude really make the haters hate and some haters have skills that will be able to put a hurt on your coin.

You must've particularly enjoyed my post up-thread.

  Sorry was TLDR.   I just read it now.   

[rpietila]

Perhaps I can explain why we believe that Monero is the only thing that matters.

James,

Total XMR is 3,255,000

We believe that there is nobody who owns 200,000 or more. If there is, he is an outsider who does not disclose about it. The ones who are interested and have the means to buy such a number theoretically, have been assigned a lower number and many of them are confirmed.

The number of people who own roughly 50,000 or more is about 7 that we know, and - since this is reasonably easy to pull off without noticing - maybe some we don't know.

The number owning 25-50k is likely about as many as 50k+. (According to power law, it should be).

So I have good and bad news for you. Good news is: you can quickly become one of the largest holders of Monero. Bad news is: from influence standpoint it does not matter. I am also a large owner, but my feeble efforts to influence the market have not resulted in monetary gain. There is just too many smart, individual holders out there, in pursuit of trading the market, accumulating, or diversifying, that it does not work.

This is the reason I have singled Monero out from all coins out there. The distribution of coins has been attained by the atypical launch, where the original dev was ousted after only a few days. The new team has 7 people. This distributed "their" coins greatly, compared to one dev. The early problems with preferential mining are a fact, but the damage has been quantified, and the largest "villain", dga, has walked away with the money ($150k) and the moneros have been distributed by the exchange. The devs have bought their coins in the exchange.

Monero has been listed in an exchange since 3.1% of the total issuance was mined, and immediately commanded a high price, leading to high difficulty, encouraging (even forcing) miners to sell, and shuffling the coins to many hands. The distribution statistic shows a healthy spike of BTC whales who believe the coin. This (large number of Hero members and whales, owning moderate stashes) is a phenomenon only applicable to Monero, afaik. In total, the volume in the most voluminous exchange, during Monero's existence, has been 6,300,000 XMR, about double the number of coins now existing, and 4 times the average number during that time. Again not found in any other coin.

These are the reasons I like and own Monero, and I fully believe you will make a wise decision in buying some for your portfolio investment, as we believe that a good groundwork will soon be rewarded with a hefty price increase. (Hefty price increase cannot amend bad groundwork, however).

Risto

[kennyP]

I am challenging everyone to find a reason what is behind this attack and hate.

The answer is rather easy to find if you ask me. There are plenty of XMR fans and, for some reason, not few offensively-minded at that. The competitive nature of the altcoin forum and the "fighting" among the defenders of various altcoins results in attack and/or hate. The more aggressiv a particular project's defenders promote their cause, the more hate they tend to receive accordingly.

Do the XMR fans go to litter other coin threads? (I don't know because I never visit such) There is a flood of trolls in XMR threads. Is it balanced?

You bet they do! You need to get out more, otherwise you'll get a distorted picture of what's going on. Monero is a good coin, but there are many others too, and everyone dumps on everyone else.

Only project that isn't at the moment is superNET. jl777 wants to accept ALL coins, except straight clones that offer nothing.

Guess which coin crew troll jl777 the most? Yep, you guess right ... monero!

WHY? There's a ton of crap coins to troll, it pains me when I see the good coins tearing each other apart.

[mr_random]

This entire subforum is a cesspit of greed, jealousy and hate.

Every coin I have been involved with in recent months (XMR, XC and BC) have all had to withstand substantial FUD and smear campaigns.

[rikkejohn]

The volume was about 2-300 BTC a day on Poloniex for a few weeks, as was well documented on this forum.

To say nobody has made money on it, and quoting an average price is absurd, especially from someone regularly using market terms and speaking about XMR as if it was an exciting investment opportunity.



As you can see from the chart, there has been quite a large gulf between high and low. The volume today is being quoted as $120k  (which I believe is about average for the last month). The market cap is quoted as $6,3m, which is quite a bit higher than the $2m it it was valued at in May.

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/monero/

So either people have made a bundle, or the trading has been fake.

[mr_random]

The volume was about 2-300 BTC a day on Poloniex for a few weeks, as was well documented on this forum.

To say nobody has made money on it, and quoting an average price is absurd, especially from someone regularly using market terms and speaking about XMR as if it was an exciting investment opportunity.



As you can see from the chart, there has been quite a large gulf between high and low. The volume today is being quoted as $120k  (which I believe is about average for the last month). The market cap is quoted as $6,3m, which is quite a bit higher than the $2m it it was valued at in May.

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/monero/

So either people have made a bundle, or the trading has been fake.

I agree. OP is plain wrong on that point.

Market cap though is determined by coin quantity too which has increased massively since May. Even if price did remain the same, the market cap still would have increased significantly.

On the first exchange you could buy/sell XMR on the price was hovering around 10. But the trade volume was low. It's around 40 now. That 4 times increase is a nice gain but pales in comparison to what I have made off other coins that I bought early that went on to be winners.

The point OP is trying to make is the coin is fairer than most coins.

[kennyP]

This entire subforum is a cesspit of greed, jealousy and hate.

Every coin I have been involved with in recent months (XMR, XC and BC) have all had to withstand substantial FUD and smear campaigns.

Sad but true, soon this forum will be so full of toxic coins & people it will collapse in on itself. Too many coins now, impossible to find & follow the goods for anyone who isn't full time crypto investor now. This is a day I welcome!

So many decentralised coins with massively concentrated ownership. Makes as much sense as Chinese communist party officials running largest capitalist market based economy. It can't last much longer. Once the alt coin forum on BTT implodes valid coin communities will need to setup their own forums. That is the day crypto becomes truly decentralised.

edit: how many big investors own single digit % stakes in multiple contender coins? Some guys probably own 1-5% of all the good ones by now. It's insane, but I bet it's true.

[rdnkjdi]

It seems now that one altcoin, Monero (XMR), is under a constant barrage of attacks against its network + against the community.

It is especially remarkable, because:
- the coin is not in the TOP-10 marketcap,
- does not have a very large or very fast growing usership, and
- its price is not growing very fast.

According to the price history, almost nobody has made any money with it, because the all-time-average price is BTC0.004, and the price today is the same, with very little variation.

I am challenging everyone to find a reason what is behind this attack and hate. Note I am not saying that the attacks and hate are widespread as percentage of forum activists, but the people doing it certainly are very active.

Further, is it possible that the sea of shit in every Monero thread that the trolls leave behind, is giving such a bad impression to a casual reader that they buy into some other coin in its place. Can it be that paying for trolls and sockpuppets actually pays off?

Is the code in such condition that is can be defended against all attacks? Unfortunately it seems that the recent one could only have been pulled out by a person with much better understanding of the Monero code than Monero devs themselves. This is not very flattering towards certain people. (I write it out because not all are in the know: Monero is a community takeover coin that is based on CryptoNote protocol. Other CryptoNote coins are managed by the original CN developers, Monero is the one whose developers did not code the protocol itself.)

Moderation policy: This is an XMR-friendly thread. Any activity that is not furthering the discussion topics of this OP may be deleted and trolls banned. Don't even come if the reason of your coming is to wage the attack that we are discussing how to defend against.

As someone who's mostly a wall observer and who thinks anon will be the next big thing if there is a next big thing.  (I'm actually REALLY interested in the effects of having an anon coin with high liquidity.  I believe it will shift power dynamics back to individuals.) I've been paying some attention to Monero & BBR.  There's XC, DRK & BTCD.  But I really kinda have a beef with partial closed source and PoS because I feel like it inhibits the possibility of widespread adoption.

I'll say from an objective observers perspective.  Monero seems a little like a long term holders groupie coin.  It's probably my biggest beef with it.  Whenever people push something as hard as it's pushed you have to wonder what's really going on.  In addition to this - I posted this in the XC thread when people accused me of being a Monero shill.

If you want an effective method to argue against it - read up on what happened yesterday that forked it without needing any hashing power by exploiting cryptonote bugs.

Or the size of the blockchain.  And the fact that it needs GBs of ram.

Or that the developers that wrote and understand the original source are likely the ones attacking XMR

Or that all of the devs agree the core code written in C with no comments is incredibly dangerous and they don't fully comprehend it.

Why are people pushing the coin this hard when it has this many problems?  Please PLEASE don't accuse me of being a fudster.  If somebody does that one more time I will lose all confidence in the idea of objective observation.  There is intentional hatred on whatever coin is successful (IMO litecoin gets the most of them).  So I'm not sure there is a concentrated effort on destroying it.  I think the proper question is

"Why is this coin not taking off when so many big names are supporting it"

[rikkejohn]

The volume was about 2-300 BTC a day on Poloniex for a few weeks, as was well documented on this forum.

To say nobody has made money on it, and quoting an average price is absurd, especially from someone regularly using market terms and speaking about XMR as if it was an exciting investment opportunity.



As you can see from the chart, there has been quite a large gulf between high and low. The volume today is being quoted as $120k  (which I believe is about average for the last month). The market cap is quoted as $6,3m, which is quite a bit higher than the $2m it it was valued at in May.

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/monero/

So either people have made a bundle, or the trading has been fake.

I agree. OP is plain wrong on that point.

Market cap though is determined by coin quantity too which has increased massively since May. Even if price did remain the same, the market cap still would have increased significantly.

On the first exchange you could buy/sell XMR on the price was hovering around 10. But the trade volume was low. It's around 40 now. That 4 times increase is a nice gain but pales in comparison to what I have made off other coins that I bought early that went on to be winners.

The point OP is trying to make is the coin is fairer than most coins.

Okay, Mr Random, you're right about the coin market cap.

In saying that, I'm not sure how much XMR is being introduced daily by miners. the last time I bought some it was quite a bit cheaper, and i sold it at about 10% profit.

I find the figures quite staggering at Poloniex, but it seems to be dropping off a bit. So we either watch it decline or burst back. XMR does not strike me as a coin to just muddle along at average price.