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Author Topic: [BTC-TC] BTC-Mining  (Read 21180 times)
Fuzzy
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April 26, 2012, 12:08:50 PM
 #21

All bitcoins put on new equipment increase the dividends, share value, and sales price if it is voted to stop the operation.

So it's a sort of mandatory re-investment?

Also, where will this be mining? Solo, or part of a pool?
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Namworld
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April 26, 2012, 08:06:03 PM
 #22

The location where it will be mining will be motioned later. Probably a pool at first, then if we expend over 100 GH/s, maybe soloing.

Indeed it is a mandatory re-investment. Since equipment is co-owned, we need a fixed rate. And since equipment deteriorates over time, to grow we need a substantial re-investment in equipment. I thought 50% dividends would be enough for most people.

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April 26, 2012, 09:34:43 PM
 #23

I would seriously consider scaling down this project to just one Mini-Rig to start with,

I'd also make the "mandatory reinvestment" completely optional and set by the client. Depending on how you calculate ROI, even at 100% div, a minirig could take over a year just to pay itself off. Setting a 50% div and the other 40% reinvested simply won't work for a lot of people.

Personally I'd want a maximum return, with the option of re-investing my BTC later on once things start to pan out.

What's really killing this is the Mini-Rig delivery time coupled with the looming Block Reward split, leaving ~5 months of mining at 50 BTC/block.
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April 26, 2012, 10:06:07 PM
 #24

It is scaled to 1 mini-rig. The first one will be ordered as soon as amount required is funded.

The reduced bitcoins/block is exactly what makes the mini-rig the good option. It consumes a very low amount of electricity and is thus much safer than the single or GPUs to have. Efficiency is key for reduced mining.

I'd also offer very good terms with insurance, management, electricity, etc. included in a 10% fee.

All this is only possible with large scale mining with efficient equipment. The reduced mining per block will be the same for everyone. Having only mini-rigs would be a big competitive advantage. If everyone likes the concept but doesn't take shares by fear not enough will sell, the project will never hatch. As I said, I'll purchase back all shares in 2 month if we don't reach enough for the first rig with a small extra to cover GLBSE transactions fee out of my pocket.  If you got idling bitcoins and are interested, then please do invest. I don't like tackling micro-projects when the returns per effort are little compared to large scale and wouldn't like to see the project fail out of a common fear of others not purchasing and a dislike about waiting a few weeks.

I find it hard to believe people wouldn't wait such a short time for those advantages.

Also, people would like to see me incur more risk personally. I will purchase 500 of the shares myself soon to help fund the first rig at some point next week.

P.S. A choose your own reinvestment option would be impossible to manage. If mining proceeds are split per share, those who reinvest more would pretty much give their money to every other members. If we'd try to solve this by adding more shares for buying new equipment, then new shares buyers end up paying for replacing the dying equipment of old shareholders and their investment is diluted. A fixed reinvestment rate for everyone is a good way to go in my opinion. You're free to disagree. 50% in dividends is still a 7% return per month and the equipment still holds a lot of value. They can be reprogrammed for other purposes/resold in case we need to.

P.P.S.
No hard feelings, but I felt people where mentioning those same fears way too much again and again. I've simplified the main post, moved the IPO numbers on the website and re-posted this at the end of the main post to clear things up.



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April 26, 2012, 11:05:01 PM
 #25

 Grin No hard feelings, you have to stick to the plan as you see it, but a 50% div isn't for me.

I guess what I'm lookig for is something similar to this but with a max payout (minus essential fees) and a fixed share in a mini-rig, the I can re-invest if/as I see fit. Maybe you'll have something like that after this IPO, who knows.

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April 27, 2012, 01:49:53 AM
 #26

I know my concern is that if I invest, it will be months before we get any returns.  Maybe you should get a small startup rig funded by member of your team, you could take ownership of some shares to cover the cost of the equipment.  This way there will at least be a small weekly return.  IF you start paying weekly, I am sure you will increase your sales greatly.

Need a Vircurex referral code? The code is 260-146

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April 27, 2012, 02:22:06 AM
 #27

I've been looking into buying existing hashing power for which mining proceeds would be given to members while equipment is received. If I can find a seller, I'll keep you all updated. If not, I may order singles right away instead that would mine for members while receiving the actual mini-rigs.

Since that would be 100% funded by me, that would purely be a gift to members for waiting. But if it must come to that... why not?


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April 27, 2012, 10:19:47 AM
 #28

>I've been looking into buying existing hashing power for which mining proceeds would be given to members while equipment is received.

Sounds more like a bond then? Also why would you rent hashing power if you can buy coins off the shelf?

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April 27, 2012, 10:36:38 AM
 #29

I would not rent hashing but buy it as bonds and have a sell back clause after a certain time (I would want to get that money back for my own title). That would mean I'd get some bitcoins and not wait for the hashing power, and would let the hashing seller buy some more equipment right away.

So it's more like a loan, a bit like current mining operations sold off hashing on their current equipment and purchased more, but kept a buyback clause. By just buying coins off the shelf, I'd basically just be giving money to the shareholders which doesn't necessarily help as much. I'd like to put that money back on shares for the second or third rig at a later date.

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April 27, 2012, 11:28:11 PM
 #30

I've struck a deal for 1600 mhash/s I'll be paying for out of my pockets and giving the proceeds away to investors while they wait for the actual equipment delivery. I'll update when the transaction is finalized. I'm making a bank transfer and then need to convert to bitcoins. Should take 3-5 business days so transaction should happen next weekend.

Since I'm the one paying for it, that's purely a gift from me to the first investors for waiting and helping start the operation.

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filharvey
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April 28, 2012, 12:08:13 AM
 #31

During the wait for a rig to be funded. Why don't u invest in ppt bonds, this will provide a nice dividend stream for investors while u are waiting for the funds to be raised. It does not solve the 8+ week for a rig to be delivered after payment.

Also I wold like to see the re-investment % killed, and basically you offer everything back to investors, but issue more shares each time to purchase a new rig. This way people get full dividend payments, and if you provide a good service and the company works, people will re-invest.
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April 28, 2012, 01:10:07 AM
 #32

You don't seem to understand that issuing more share for more equipment means that older equipment that dies will mean new investors would get the hashing they bought split among older investors since that equipment was not replaced. Eventually after years it wouldn't make any sense for anyone to buy new shares since there's too many others whose's equipment they paid for is dead. It's a plan that is programmed to die out. The PPS bonds that gives perpetual hashing power actually can buy more hashing per funding than what is sold per share. That extra hashing has the capacity to replace equipment and pay admin fees. Only it is not disclosed in clear numbers. The money to replace the equipment does not appear out of nowhere.

The 40% is only higher than usual for growth reasons but is still not too far away than traditional PPS. I made it that way be clear about what is reinvested in new equipment and that all that reinvestment goes to the benefit of people who bought shares in the equipment. Our own fees are clear and fixed at 10%. I believe it is important for members to know what goes where. 50% dividends remains a substantial return if you consider most of the rest goes to giving more value to the shares.

This is a long term investment and hashing should be growing for existing shareholders. After some time the same shares should be giving more than 100% if you were receiving 100% from the start. For this you'd need to double the initial hashing power. You have to have faith in bitcoins and that having efficient equipment will let you be more competitive than others after the block solving reward is halved.

For the pirate bonds... there's some controversy about it even if pirateat40 is trusted. Many have doubts about the up to 7% returns a week being even close to realistic or feasible. Many are pro pirate, but many are also sure he will default. Personally I do not believe it is a safe investment at all. This is a mining only operation and I am not going to start risking and placing people's money they trusted me with left and right when they are co-buying Butterfly Lab mining equipment.

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April 29, 2012, 10:22:22 AM
 #33

I like you. Im in. Smiley
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April 29, 2012, 05:15:24 PM
 #34

where are the GLBSE sell orders for BTC 0.99 comming from?
Namworld
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April 29, 2012, 05:22:40 PM
 #35

I buy them with my personal account and put them back for sale/raffle them. Look up the raffle thread in the marketplace. Little advertisement for people not watching the securities forum.

Quote from: Namjies
I've purchased 20 shares (a 100 USD value) that will be drawn among participants if we reach 3000 shares sold. To participate, simply request it on this thread. I will add you to a list I will keep updated here.


Furthermore, I will purchase a few shares and resell them right away at a discount on some occasions.

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April 29, 2012, 07:10:34 PM
 #36

MOTION GOING ON @ GLBSE:
Quote
To receive dividends while gathering funds, we will be purchasing in a private deal hashing power bonds. We would get 400 mhash/110BTC, 100% returned into dividends. Hashing provider would buy back the hashing power by the end of august for us to order the mini-rigs.

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April 29, 2012, 07:34:54 PM
 #37

Would he buy back @110 BTC for these 400 MH/s?
0.275 per MH/s is one of the cheapest prices around since gigavps' IPO... where are you buying this from?

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April 29, 2012, 07:44:34 PM
 #38

It would be bought back at same price it was purchased, and announcement will happen after motion is voted on. The deal will be public. We just want to let our few current investors vote on it first.

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April 29, 2012, 08:21:58 PM
 #39

Interesting idea, so you got someone to pay you ~3-4 months of mining revenue for a loan of 110 BTC...

I guess in the end it would have been smarter to offer 90% dividends in the beginning but allowing you to do your own business. 1-2 months after mining you could then declare that you will only pay 50% dividends or even less until the next mining rig has been financed + bought. If you sell it smartly (no share dilution!) I guess people would have bought into the IPO now more enthusiastically.

Are the shares offered at 0.99 also offered by you or are they from an investor that wants to jump ship? I would buy a few shares but I want to support you + the company directly. If these offers are not by you, please send/sell me 3 shares via GLBSE (same nickname), I'll transfer you 3 BTC then for them.

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Namworld
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April 29, 2012, 08:42:52 PM
 #40

Those shares are the promotional ones I'm reselling. Go ahead, buy them if you wish.

Also, it's 400 mhash/110BTC. If shares sell fast enough and we have enough for a mini-rig at some point, order one or more. If they don't sell fast enough, we progressively buy 400 mhash/110 BTC increments of hashing as a private bond that will be bought back.

I didn't want to offer 90% and then switch to 50% if people wanted to have 90% from the start. I find it important that equipment is replaced and new equipment comes in. It's a long term investment alternative. There's many perpetual bonds that just have a stable hashing, but this way the amounts on admin fees and purchasing new equipments/replacing will be transparent. People were interested in that ratio of dividends/reinvestment/fees but mostly scared of having their bitcoins idling while the shares sell. That private bond purchase should cover us nicely while they sell.

Public announcement about it should happen tomorrow.


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