[BTC-TC] BTC-Mining

[Namworld]

PLEASE GO HERE FOR GLBSE CLOSEDOWN CLAIMS INFORMATION:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=129362.0

Over 2300 BTC funded @ over 10$ each at current market rate

(NUMBERS) estimates will vary according to current BTC price in USD as it directly affects how many ASICs can be purchased.

Hello,

BTCMining.ca is a co-owned mining operation where each member owns a part of the equipment (COOP like operation).

It will operate in Montreal, Canada. Initial planned output is (3 Terahash/s) using Butterfly Labs ASICs Rigs and administration fees are 10% as per contract.

Quicklinks:
Website: BTCMining.ca
Contract: http://www.btcmining.ca/contract or see GLBSE page
Buy shares: https://glbse.com/asset/view/BTC-MINING

Advantages

• (300 mhash/share) @ 1 BTC each: Includes 50% returned to members, 40% for buying new equipment to replace and expand and a low 10% administration fee.
• Equipment will be insured against theft and fire. /covered by the 10% fees
• Equipment will be maintained /covered by the 10% fees
• Operation's power bill and supporting material: cables, computers, cooling, extras, etc. /covered by the 10% fees
• All equipment is owned by the members. They are entitled to 100% of sale proceeds with no fee assessed by management if the operation stops.
• Green and cheap energy: Hydroelectric power @ $0.075/kwh
• Cheap and clear fees (10%) compared to many other mining operations. Others have undisclosed percentage of fees or 100%+ Pay Per Share hashing power perpetual bonds without disclosing how much actual hashing power they buy in total with the funds or which amount goes into keeping it perpetual or admin fees.

(3 ASICs Mini Rigs) will be purchased for (300 mhash/share), with 10% for administrative fees, 40% reinvested in more equipment for the members and 50% paid out in dividends.
Detailed expected initial numbers for IPO:BTC-Mining IPO page

Need anything clarified? Post your questions and I'll update this post.

10000 shares will be issued on IPO, with the possibility to vote to issue more should the members wish to expand even faster.

Regards,
Juan-Samuel

Hashing power bonds purchased (Most recent)
Spent = 214 x 11 BTC = 2354 BTC
Bought = 214 x 40 mhash = 8560 mhash/s
Those bond will be bought back by issuer later at the same price they were purchased. These private bonds are purchased to get a few returns on our capital while we sell shares so the bitcoins don't idle in the account.

Dividends Statement

I am buying 40 mhash/11 BTC, or ~3.63 mhash/BTC (100%) in dividends until we can afford the mini-rigs.

Amazingrando, issuer of Bitbond, would be the hashing power provider. While he's not endorsing us or differing much from his usual bonds structure, it would help BTC-Mining's concept to take off. I will be donating him a few shares from the ones I purchased and if you are interested by and want to buy in into BTC-Mining, I would suggest you make him a donation too as a token of gratitude so he gets a few parts in the operation for helping it take off.

You can donate to Amazingrando by transfering a few BTC-Mining shares to username: amazingrando

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FAQ
Many people asks us why we don't offer the same as other mining operations or requests something different, basically wanting more mining bonds. We are simply not offering bonds, but an alternative. We will try to explain why we chose that structure. You can judge whether that makes sense to you and if it is what you are looking for.
 
Q. Why should I wait for the equipment delivery when I can get hashing now? Why should I wait for returns?
Answer: Because you are actually buying the equipment with others. You have a right to 100% of the equipment's sale if it is voted to be sold if and when people want to stop the operation. You get lower administrative fees and better advantages that way for waiting some time and pre-funding your own equipment instead of buying a fraction of a current mining operation.

Q. Why 40% reinvested? What if I want 100% proceeds? Why not issue more share to replace equipment and just give people 100% of mining now?
Answer: Because under that model, we would get more and more shares for simply replacing the equipment, basically keeping the same hashing power for a growing amount of share while still having to sell as many shares at the same price for each replacement. Shares dilution would occur and the operation would die out since people don't pay for the replacement of the equipment power associated to their shares. Getting new shares sales to pay for the replacement of the hashing of your old shares would not be right. Equipment needs to be replaced and extra equipment added for the shares to gain value and the operation to grow. You also need growing hashing power to compete with increasing difficulty.

Q. But other mining operations offer 100%+ Perpetual PPS paid right now! Why would I need to reinvest 40%?
Answer: You get 100%+ PPS on a specific hashing power from current miners' hardware who would then buy with your funds more hashing power then you actually bought with it. This extra hashing they buy is usually an undisclosed amount on which they get their profit and pay for the replacement needed to keep it a perpetual bond. You get 100% of the hashing they agreed to give you. With us, you know the fees are a low 10% because it is a service we provide and you funded the equipment in advance. Although the dividends are a bit lower, the 40% reinvested is all equipment that is added to YOUR part in the hashing power. It's a long term investment with a growth plan. Look at the planned numbers here: Expected hashing and returns

Q. It looks interesting, but I am afraid others won't buy or like it. What if shares don't sell fast enough and my funds are withheld for a long period until we can purchase equipment?
Answer: There's a maximum period for the IPO of 2 months (Ending June 23rd).* It don't think people should let emotion interfere with how they place their money. Ponder whether the terms are interesting and if the wait time is worth it. If you like the terms, the best way to make it happen would be to invest to speed the process and encourage others to do the same thing.

I've negotiated a hashing power deal. I will be privately buying 40 mhash/11BTC bonds with the funds that will be reimbursed by the end of august. See announcement. With the discounted hashing power we're buying, it's currently more advantageous to buy BTC-Mining than other traditional mining operation shares considering you get returns during the funding phase and 100% of funds will still go on the newest hardware.

*I'd still try to get your shares purchased back after on the 23rd June if you still really want to get off. Just request it.

Q. Why not place the money in Pirate Bonds or something else to get returns for people while we gather funds for the equipment?
Answer: For the pirate bonds, there's some controversy about it even if pirateat40 is trusted. Many have doubts about the up to 7% returns a week being even close to realistic or feasible. Many are pro pirate, but many are also sure he will default. Personally I do not believe it is a safe investment. This is a mining only operation and I am offering a professional management service. I am not going to start risking and placing people's money which I've been entrusted with left and right when they are intending to be co-buying Butterfly Lab mining equipment. We are holding those funds for the purchase of the offered mining equipment only.

Q. So it is a long term investment?
Answer: Definitely. And you would still get approximately 3.75 mhash/BTC of dividends with current IPO on the 50% dividends, a better rate than most current titles because they raised in value immediatly after IPO. (Current valued at 2.70 - 3.40 mhash per BTC). That's not counting the massive reinvestment of 40% as an extra. The waiting time should be worth your while. This would be possible because you are funding the equipment yourself, we only service it.

IMPORTANT NOTICES & EVENTS
Shares left countdown: 7987

Raffle & Discount shares
As a way to promote BTC-Mining out of the securities forum, I'm offering discounted shares and a raffle paid out of my own pocket. Those shares are purchased from my personal account and resold at a small discount/raffled. Participate in the thread.

[BinaryMage]

Subbed, looks intriguing. I see you've verified ID, any references?

[Namworld]

References? Not really among the bitcoin community. I made one trade directly with a member https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49120.msg590481#msg590481. I usually use exchanges to get bitcoins. I do have good itraders on other forums, been in the web services business for quite some time. If people want to verify those, they can PM me to arrange logging in and confirming from outside sources.

I'm not willing to just give away photo ID scan to anyone, but my business registration required a valid ID when I presented myself and can be verified online.
http://www.registreentreprises.gouv.qc.ca/en/default.aspx
Click on "Find Enterprise" and search for Namworld or 2266754961 to get it. Nefario should be able to confirm the ID is for the same name. I'll PM him to request it.

[MPOE-PR]

An OTC rating would really be helpful.

[Namworld]

An OTC rating would really be helpful.

I understand it would be the ideal method for people to check but I only have one OTC-Rating. http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=Namjies&sign=ANY&type=RECV
Imsaguy is the only one who was willing to accept Paypal so I had to turn to exchanges like VirWoX. Can't really help it when people were not willing to trade or give a good exchange rate.

Bitcoins are not the only irreversible thing around however. Lots of digital goods/services are and I got good ratings. Like I said, if you want more references than GLBSE's info verifications and that OTC rating, just PM me and I'll point you to some accounts you can contact elsewhere with good ratings and I'll confirm from those.

[Namworld]

As the IPO approaches, I'm preparing to get a tidy place for the rig.

Among other things, shelving space to accept equipment.

I also started to browse for fire and theft insurance for the value of the equipment.

All those are covered in the 10% administration fee of course.

Stay around for more updates. I'll take a picture once my home office is suitably converted.

[xkrikl]

The question is how long it will take before you really start mining with this hardware ...

When will you order those 3 BF mini rigs? Or have you already ordered them?
Will you wait until you sell all the 10,000 shares?

[Namworld]

I've been told over 6 weeks currently, so maybe up to 2 months before mining starts. It should be a reasonable wait time. They'll be purchased one at a time, as shares sell (or in one block if they sell fast enough.)

On another note, I started converting my home office by adding modular shelving. There will be a lot of extra room for expansion.

Before/After


Next step is hiring an electrician to add extra juice available. I'd rather not have electrical cords running across the floors from wall outlets but have a higher wattage right there. (Cords also being a failure point known as "tripping over cords")

I will also need to install a dedicated computer to run said rig.

Edit: Window is further on the left. I'm thinking about a wall mounted AC unit however.

[Namworld]

Update. IPO has started.

As far as I'm aware, cheapest available right now per mhash, since other shares have gone up in price by quite a lot since they started.

[Nefario]

GLBSE prediction market launched

[Namworld]

GLBSE prediction market launched

Shameless GLBSE threads spamming?  

Nice addition, even if just for the fun of it. Guess I might as well create a few questions for BTC-Mining for people to make predictions.

Edit: just added 2 questions now waiting in moderation (share price and hashing power changes)

[Namworld]

A bit slow but they're selling. I've heard of interest in BTC-Mining and seen other mining offers almost sell out on preorders, yet slow.

Would appreciate feedback from the ones that were interested. Are everyone out of bitcoins after the other mnining corp IPOs or the new securities sub-forum just don't get as much exposure?

I'm considering either purchasing a chunk of the shares myself or paying for a bit of advertisement. Opinions on that?

[zapeta]

A bit slow but they're selling. I've heard of interest in BTC-Mining and seen other mining offers almost sell out on preorders, yet slow.

Would appreciate feedback from the ones that were interested. Are everyone out of bitcoins after the other mnining corp IPOs or the new securities sub-forum just don't get as much exposure?

I'm considering either purchasing a chunk of the shares myself or paying for a bit of advertisement. Opinions on that?

I'm out of BTC at the moment but when I have some I plan on investing.

[friedcat]

A bit slow but they're selling. I've heard of interest in BTC-Mining and seen other mining offers almost sell out on preorders, yet slow.

Would appreciate feedback from the ones that were interested. Are everyone out of bitcoins after the other mnining corp IPOs or the new securities sub-forum just don't get as much exposure?

I'm considering either purchasing a chunk of the shares myself or paying for a bit of advertisement. Opinions on that?

Tips:

1. Reduce your first round of IPO to raise coins for only 1 Mini-Rig. The psychology effect of "so many shares left, and I'll wait and see what other people do" is strong enough to stagnate your fundraising.

2. Use some existing hardware to make some instant profits for shareholders. You can loan them like BTCSYN did.

3. Switch to other mining configurations like BFL single or ngzhang's Lancelot (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=51371.0). The development of the latter hasn't finished (announcements will be in May probably), but I believe that, even so, the delivery date of Lancelot FPGAs will still be earlier than Mini-Rigs. Of course, Lancelot FPGAs has to be competitive to BFL products to be taken into consideration.

4. Advertisement might be helpful, but not as helpful as the three things above (they are not fully compatible to each other, of course, but you could consider 1 or 2 of them.)

[Namworld]

Thanks to both of you.

@friedcat
The others seem to understand those things too and that the rigs are a much better option cost-wise and also necessary competitive wise with their much lower power consumption. They seem to still be interested even if that means to wait for delivery. So I'll avoid going for singles or the Lancelot which have worse mhash/$ for now and are more power hungry.

The more it goes, the more I feel it's an awareness issue. People are either unaware the IPO is underway or for those that are watching this sub-forum, they have spent their bitcoins on previous IPOs. There's been previous IPOs with large initial volumes that went well.

The first round is already reduced and is one third of the shares as stated. Even less depending on current rate. People may not read this thread in full however. I'm adding that fact to the main post. It may help.

I'll stay active, visit the OTC chat regularly and browse for advertising options. I've also been told by some they will buy shares when I told them about this thread and will even buy some myself which should get BTC-Mining up in the shares list on GLBSE and reduce the shares left before first rig is ordered even further. That should take care of the "so many shares left, and I'll wait and see what other people do"

I'll have to look if anyone has interesting rates for loaning equipment. That may help too.

[friedcat]

The others seem to understand those things too and that the rigs are a much better option cost-wise and also necessary competitive wise with their much lower power consumption. They seem to still be interested even if that means to wait for delivery. So I'll avoid going for singles or the Lancelot which have worse mhash/$ for now and are more power hungry.

The more it goes, the more I feel it's an awareness issue. People are either unaware the IPO is underway or for those that are watching this sub-forum, they have spent their bitcoins on previous IPOs. There's been previous IPOs with large initial volumes that went well.

The first round is already reduced and is one third of the shares as stated. Even less depending on current rate. People may not read this thread in full however. I'm adding that fact to the main post. It may help.

I'll stay active, visit the OTC chat regularly and browse for advertising options. I've also been told by some they will buy shares when I told them about this thread and will even buy some myself which should get BTC-Mining up in the shares list on GLBSE and reduce the shares left before first rig is ordered even further. That should take care of the "so many shares left, and I'll wait and see what other people do"

I'll have to look if anyone has interesting rates for loaning equipment. That may help too.

Great.

And notice that Lancelot's performance data is not revealed yet. The current data (380MH/s,20Watts) you saw comes from Icarus, which Lancelot tries to replace.

[CA Coins]

I've been told over 6 weeks currently, so maybe up to 2 months before mining starts. It should be a reasonable wait time. They'll be purchased one at a time, as shares sell (or in one block if they sell fast enough.)

On another note, I started converting my home office by adding modular shelving. There will be a lot of extra room for expansion.

Before/After


Next step is hiring an electrician to add extra juice available. I'd rather not have electrical cords running across the floors from wall outlets but have a higher wattage right there. (Cords also being a failure point known as "tripping over cords")

I will also need to install a dedicated computer to run said rig.

Just curious, because I don't see windows, how you plan to cool your rigs?  Assuming BFL delivers on the spec, I think you're looking at >3kw of heat for your 75GH/s. 

[Fuzzy]

Just curious, because I don't see windows, how you plan to cool your rigs?  Assuming BFL delivers on the spec, I think you're looking at >3kw of heat for your 75GH/s. 

at 1250w each, all said and done it'll be ~4kw of pure heat energy. If you've ever had a 1kw heater in a room, imagine 4 of those on full blast. I would seriously consider putting the rigs IN a window, like an AC unit and have a fan pump air over the rigs and out of the window.

Still, this sounds like a cool idea.

[Fuzzy]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bitcoin split
Expected BTC generated daily at current difficulty (1577913.48568) for 3 rigs (75600 mhash/s): ฿48.19

Management and electricity fee from us: ฿4.819(10%)
Expected daily BTC returned to members: ฿43.371 (90%)

• Expected daily BTC for new equipment: ฿19.276 (40%)
• Expected daily BTC for dividends: ฿24.095 (50%)
  
  • Expected approximate dividends per share:  ฿0.0024095/day
  • Expected approximate dividends per share:  ฿0.072285/30 days (7.2%/month)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I can't quite wrap my head around this one. How is 40%, of the 90% returned to clients, used for new equipment?
If you return it to the client, how can you be using it to buy equipment?

[Namworld]

Just curious, because I don't see windows, how you plan to cool your rigs?  Assuming BFL delivers on the spec, I think you're looking at >3kw of heat for your 75GH/s.  

at 1250w each, all said and done it'll be ~4kw of pure heat energy. If you've ever had a 1kw heater in a room, imagine 4 of those on full blast. I would seriously consider putting the rigs IN a window, like an AC unit and have a fan pump air over the rigs and out of the window.

Still, this sounds like a cool idea.

The window is right to the left. A wall conditioning system may be added later with more rigs installed. It is still a low power consumption and thus low heat emission for a 75 ghash mining rig.

I can't quite wrap my head around this one. How is 40%, of the 90% returned to clients, used for new equipment?
If you return it to the client, how can you be using it to buy equipment?

The equipment is owned by the members. All bitcoins put on new equipment increase the dividends, share value, and sales price if it is voted to stop the operation.

[Fuzzy]

All bitcoins put on new equipment increase the dividends, share value, and sales price if it is voted to stop the operation.

So it's a sort of mandatory re-investment?

Also, where will this be mining? Solo, or part of a pool?

[Namworld]

The location where it will be mining will be motioned later. Probably a pool at first, then if we expend over 100 GH/s, maybe soloing.

Indeed it is a mandatory re-investment. Since equipment is co-owned, we need a fixed rate. And since equipment deteriorates over time, to grow we need a substantial re-investment in equipment. I thought 50% dividends would be enough for most people.

[Fuzzy]

I would seriously consider scaling down this project to just one Mini-Rig to start with,

I'd also make the "mandatory reinvestment" completely optional and set by the client. Depending on how you calculate ROI, even at 100% div, a minirig could take over a year just to pay itself off. Setting a 50% div and the other 40% reinvested simply won't work for a lot of people.

Personally I'd want a maximum return, with the option of re-investing my BTC later on once things start to pan out.

What's really killing this is the Mini-Rig delivery time coupled with the looming Block Reward split, leaving ~5 months of mining at 50 BTC/block.

[Namworld]

It is scaled to 1 mini-rig. The first one will be ordered as soon as amount required is funded.

The reduced bitcoins/block is exactly what makes the mini-rig the good option. It consumes a very low amount of electricity and is thus much safer than the single or GPUs to have. Efficiency is key for reduced mining.

I'd also offer very good terms with insurance, management, electricity, etc. included in a 10% fee.

All this is only possible with large scale mining with efficient equipment. The reduced mining per block will be the same for everyone. Having only mini-rigs would be a big competitive advantage. If everyone likes the concept but doesn't take shares by fear not enough will sell, the project will never hatch. As I said, I'll purchase back all shares in 2 month if we don't reach enough for the first rig with a small extra to cover GLBSE transactions fee out of my pocket.  If you got idling bitcoins and are interested, then please do invest. I don't like tackling micro-projects when the returns per effort are little compared to large scale and wouldn't like to see the project fail out of a common fear of others not purchasing and a dislike about waiting a few weeks.

I find it hard to believe people wouldn't wait such a short time for those advantages.

Also, people would like to see me incur more risk personally. I will purchase 500 of the shares myself soon to help fund the first rig at some point next week.

P.S. A choose your own reinvestment option would be impossible to manage. If mining proceeds are split per share, those who reinvest more would pretty much give their money to every other members. If we'd try to solve this by adding more shares for buying new equipment, then new shares buyers end up paying for replacing the dying equipment of old shareholders and their investment is diluted. A fixed reinvestment rate for everyone is a good way to go in my opinion. You're free to disagree. 50% in dividends is still a 7% return per month and the equipment still holds a lot of value. They can be reprogrammed for other purposes/resold in case we need to.

P.P.S.
No hard feelings, but I felt people where mentioning those same fears way too much again and again. I've simplified the main post, moved the IPO numbers on the website and re-posted this at the end of the main post to clear things up.

[Fuzzy]

  No hard feelings, you have to stick to the plan as you see it, but a 50% div isn't for me.

I guess what I'm lookig for is something similar to this but with a max payout (minus essential fees) and a fixed share in a mini-rig, the I can re-invest if/as I see fit. Maybe you'll have something like that after this IPO, who knows.

[Rejinx]

I know my concern is that if I invest, it will be months before we get any returns.  Maybe you should get a small startup rig funded by member of your team, you could take ownership of some shares to cover the cost of the equipment.  This way there will at least be a small weekly return.  IF you start paying weekly, I am sure you will increase your sales greatly.

[Namworld]

I've been looking into buying existing hashing power for which mining proceeds would be given to members while equipment is received. If I can find a seller, I'll keep you all updated. If not, I may order singles right away instead that would mine for members while receiving the actual mini-rigs.

Since that would be 100% funded by me, that would purely be a gift to members for waiting. But if it must come to that... why not?

[kakobrekla]

>I've been looking into buying existing hashing power for which mining proceeds would be given to members while equipment is received.

Sounds more like a bond then? Also why would you rent hashing power if you can buy coins off the shelf?

[Namworld]

I would not rent hashing but buy it as bonds and have a sell back clause after a certain time (I would want to get that money back for my own title). That would mean I'd get some bitcoins and not wait for the hashing power, and would let the hashing seller buy some more equipment right away.

So it's more like a loan, a bit like current mining operations sold off hashing on their current equipment and purchased more, but kept a buyback clause. By just buying coins off the shelf, I'd basically just be giving money to the shareholders which doesn't necessarily help as much. I'd like to put that money back on shares for the second or third rig at a later date.

[Namworld]

I've struck a deal for 1600 mhash/s I'll be paying for out of my pockets and giving the proceeds away to investors while they wait for the actual equipment delivery. I'll update when the transaction is finalized. I'm making a bank transfer and then need to convert to bitcoins. Should take 3-5 business days so transaction should happen next weekend.

Since I'm the one paying for it, that's purely a gift from me to the first investors for waiting and helping start the operation.

[filharvey]

During the wait for a rig to be funded. Why don't u invest in ppt bonds, this will provide a nice dividend stream for investors while u are waiting for the funds to be raised. It does not solve the 8+ week for a rig to be delivered after payment.

Also I wold like to see the re-investment % killed, and basically you offer everything back to investors, but issue more shares each time to purchase a new rig. This way people get full dividend payments, and if you provide a good service and the company works, people will re-invest.

[Namworld]

You don't seem to understand that issuing more share for more equipment means that older equipment that dies will mean new investors would get the hashing they bought split among older investors since that equipment was not replaced. Eventually after years it wouldn't make any sense for anyone to buy new shares since there's too many others whose's equipment they paid for is dead. It's a plan that is programmed to die out. The PPS bonds that gives perpetual hashing power actually can buy more hashing per funding than what is sold per share. That extra hashing has the capacity to replace equipment and pay admin fees. Only it is not disclosed in clear numbers. The money to replace the equipment does not appear out of nowhere.

The 40% is only higher than usual for growth reasons but is still not too far away than traditional PPS. I made it that way be clear about what is reinvested in new equipment and that all that reinvestment goes to the benefit of people who bought shares in the equipment. Our own fees are clear and fixed at 10%. I believe it is important for members to know what goes where. 50% dividends remains a substantial return if you consider most of the rest goes to giving more value to the shares.

This is a long term investment and hashing should be growing for existing shareholders. After some time the same shares should be giving more than 100% if you were receiving 100% from the start. For this you'd need to double the initial hashing power. You have to have faith in bitcoins and that having efficient equipment will let you be more competitive than others after the block solving reward is halved.

For the pirate bonds... there's some controversy about it even if pirateat40 is trusted. Many have doubts about the up to 7% returns a week being even close to realistic or feasible. Many are pro pirate, but many are also sure he will default. Personally I do not believe it is a safe investment at all. This is a mining only operation and I am not going to start risking and placing people's money they trusted me with left and right when they are co-buying Butterfly Lab mining equipment.

[MaxSan]

I like you. Im in.

[gewure]

where are the GLBSE sell orders for BTC 0.99 comming from?

[Namworld]

I buy them with my personal account and put them back for sale/raffle them. Look up the raffle thread in the marketplace. Little advertisement for people not watching the securities forum.

I've purchased 20 shares (a 100 USD value) that will be drawn among participants if we reach 3000 shares sold. To participate, simply request it on this thread. I will add you to a list I will keep updated here.


Furthermore, I will purchase a few shares and resell them right away at a discount on some occasions.

[Namworld]

MOTION GOING ON @ GLBSE:

To receive dividends while gathering funds, we will be purchasing in a private deal hashing power bonds. We would get 400 mhash/110BTC, 100% returned into dividends. Hashing provider would buy back the hashing power by the end of august for us to order the mini-rigs.

[Sukrim]

Would he buy back @110 BTC for these 400 MH/s?
0.275 per MH/s is one of the cheapest prices around since gigavps' IPO... where are you buying this from?

[Namworld]

It would be bought back at same price it was purchased, and announcement will happen after motion is voted on. The deal will be public. We just want to let our few current investors vote on it first.

[Sukrim]

Interesting idea, so you got someone to pay you ~3-4 months of mining revenue for a loan of 110 BTC...

I guess in the end it would have been smarter to offer 90% dividends in the beginning but allowing you to do your own business. 1-2 months after mining you could then declare that you will only pay 50% dividends or even less until the next mining rig has been financed + bought. If you sell it smartly (no share dilution!) I guess people would have bought into the IPO now more enthusiastically.

Are the shares offered at 0.99 also offered by you or are they from an investor that wants to jump ship? I would buy a few shares but I want to support you + the company directly. If these offers are not by you, please send/sell me 3 shares via GLBSE (same nickname), I'll transfer you 3 BTC then for them.

[Namworld]

Those shares are the promotional ones I'm reselling. Go ahead, buy them if you wish.

Also, it's 400 mhash/110BTC. If shares sell fast enough and we have enough for a mini-rig at some point, order one or more. If they don't sell fast enough, we progressively buy 400 mhash/110 BTC increments of hashing as a private bond that will be bought back.

I didn't want to offer 90% and then switch to 50% if people wanted to have 90% from the start. I find it important that equipment is replaced and new equipment comes in. It's a long term investment alternative. There's many perpetual bonds that just have a stable hashing, but this way the amounts on admin fees and purchasing new equipments/replacing will be transparent. People were interested in that ratio of dividends/reinvestment/fees but mostly scared of having their bitcoins idling while the shares sell. That private bond purchase should cover us nicely while they sell.

Public announcement about it should happen tomorrow.

[Namworld]

Well, we got our hashing deal finalized and motion passed 60 Yes to 0 Nay. Refer to main post for announcement.

[gewure]

bought 23 shares

[Namworld]

Thanks.

First hashing power purchase from amazing should be this weekend and start getting us some good dividends. Will keep you all updated on the amount.

[Namworld]

Well first dividend is approaching. It will be for only one day of mining, but at least we have hashing power now.

[Namworld]

First mining returns of 1.64283078 BTC paid @ 0.00241238 BTC per share for the 5th May of 2012

Only for a day and a few hours extra, almost 0.25% daily. Will vary according to current mining bonds purchased from Amazingrando.

[Namworld]

Mining returns of 10.76103908 BTC paid @ 0.01550582 BTC per share for the week of 6th May to the 12th May of 2012

[gewure]

someone buy more shares please, and faster

[Namworld]

Eh, well that's certainly something I'd like.

Not sure people are quite aware we started giving out mining returns. And at a better rate than other mining operations considering the price we get the hashing. Well at least returns are good so current investors should be able to reinvest if they wish.

[MaxSan]

For anyone interested, I purchased a small numer of shares and the reinvestment they selected pays very well. I think I calculated it to 39% yearly return.

[Namworld]

It's around 3.63 mhash/BTC with the private bonds I'm purchasing, so should give around 0.064 BTC per month on each share, depending on how much hashing I purchased with the funds. 0.64 x 12 = 0.768 = 76.8% yearly return. (At current difficulty). (It's 100% returned on those, and not 50%)

Of course it will almost double after we're fully funded and issuer of those bonds purchase them back and we order the actual mining rigs.

An estimated 3.75 mhash/BTC cashed out for purchasers - 3 mhash/BTC for new equipment - 0.75mhash for electricity and administration.

[Tritonio]

Hi Namworld. I really wish you good luck on that. I really hope this goes well. Have you considered the x6500 mining cards? The are more expensive but use even less power. I don't know if buying them in bulk would bring their price down closer to the mini-rigs.

For the record I was mostly attracted by the mining split (10-40-50) which seem pretty rational to me.

One question. When you sell about 3250 shares, you are logically going to buy the first rig. When you sell another 1000 shares, how are the profits going to be split? It will seem like our shares are diluted until the second rig is bought? Or will you consider buying mining bonds during that time? (like you did now, or directly on GLBSE)

Best of luck. I will tell a friend to consider buying some shares too since he's got some BTC just sitting there...

Also you should get on #bitcoin-assets if you don't do so already.

Oh and do those rigs have any warranty?

Edit: this is probably the most unstructured post I've ever typed.

[Namworld]

I am placing funds reserved for new equipment in bonds which pays pretty close to the 50% returns on a mini-rig, which shouldn't dilute the purchasing power. (Will be bought back by the end of august by issuer). I might try and negotiate an extension if necessary until all 10000 shares are sold, or buy bonds on GLBSE (will require an extra motion for those options)

The minirig have no extensive warranty (I heard 6 months, don't remember if that's noted somewhere on the website, haven't seen it), but their internal hardware consists of an array of small boards with two processors each (just like the Single). No moving parts makes those kind of components last long. Components that may fail faster than other usually include hard disk drives and such. Of course the processors might break over time, but those boards can be replaced/re-added. It's mostly a modular product when you look inside it. Replacing fans/boards inside should be as easy as replacing components in your computer, as far as I know.

x6500 cards gives 0.70 mhash/$ compared to 1.63mhash/$ on Mini-Rig. More than twice the bang for your bucks.
Minirig is about 20 mhash/w, x6500 cards are 23.25mhash/w. Really not a big difference.

MiniRig is a good option, but the cost of entry are prohibitive.

[gewure]

the faster people buy into the IPO, the faster the dividends will rise. go on, ppl.

[ciuciu]

Cut to 40% for reinvesting. If the operation is a success, you will get funds easily on GLBSE for more units.
For the other investors, I'm in Montreal too and I can check on him

[Namworld]

Mining returns of 10.57820733 BTC paid @ 0.01257813 BTC per share for the week of 13th May to the 19th May of 2012

[Tritonio]

Namword could you please mention BTC-MINING somewhere on http://www.namworld.net/ ? Just to make sure you really own that site/company. :-)

Oh and will you buy more bonds as more people buy shares? Or are we going to split up the current bond dividents among all shareholders until you buy the rig?

Best of luck.

[Namworld]

My info verified by GLBSE is technically he info matching the business registration for it (I got a post about that on first page).

If you want to verify that personally, you could try sending me an email directly on that website maybe? I'll answer you.

Also, yes, I'm purchasing more bonds each weekend as new funds are added. (Usually Saturday, for the next Sunday - Saturday week. We're usually paid Sunday or later for the previous Sunday to Saturday)

[Tritonio]

Just posting to say that Namworld (the user above me) answered to me when I emailed him at the email address on http://www.namworld.net/  So he is actually namworld.net.

[Namworld]

Mining returns of 12.6672819 BTC paid @ 0.01392009 BTC per share for the week of 20th May to the 26th May of 2012

[Namworld]

Mining returns of 22.14361568 BTC paid @ 0.01172861 BTC per share for the week of 27th May to the 2nd June of 2012

[Tritonio]

Would any of the shareholders be interested in tipping in to advertise this on anonymous ads or some other place?

Currently I am advertising this on my chrome extension (using this link: https://bitly.com/Jer9UW+ ) which has brought about 20 clicks.

[Namworld]

Mining returns of 30.9999945 BTC paid @ 0.0160705 BTC per share for the week of 3rd June to the 9th June of 2012

We received a bit of an extra (0.6 BTC) from Amazingrando for the late payment.

[gewure]

good dividends..!

may i ask, how many bitcoin need to be further aquired, before rig1 can be orderer?!

3000 must be enought at this exchangerate.. so just another 1000?!

[Namworld]

good dividends..!

may i ask, how many bitcoin need to be further aquired, before rig1 can be orderer?!

3000 must be enought at this exchangerate.. so just another 1000?!

Pretty much. We would still need to wait until Amazing purchases back all the hashing power however, planned end of August.

[aqrulesms]

How long typically would it take to break even on one of these bonds?

[Namworld]

Currently, I believe around 15 months. It all depends on difficulty change and how much new equipment gets added in. You'd get similar returns as regular PPS for your bitcoins, but don't forget that's 50% of the total. An extra 40% would go toward buying more equipment for the same amount of shares. Depending on what we get, it might also change the outcome with increased returns. It all depends on how fast it goes and that's not something that can be predicted.

[Bitcoin Oz]

sub.

I like the plans you have for expansion.

[gewure]

a fast financing would be much appreciated, since some 640 shares are already for sale again for less than 1.0

[Namworld]

I think that might be Diablo-D3. He's been doing a lot of moving around of his fund to profit from prices difference. That's about his share of the operation for sale there I believe. Maybe he could confirm.

[DiabloD3]

I think that might be Diablo-D3. He's been doing a lot of moving around of his fund to profit from prices difference. That's about his share of the operation for sale there I believe. Maybe he could confirm.

I own 658 of BTC-Mining atm.

[Namworld]

Mining returns of 30.1346067 BTC paid @ 0.0156057 BTC per share for the week of 10th June to 17th June of 2012

Also will update the main post about the new ASICs announcement.

[gewure]

i have another question:

is it 100% guranteed, that the IPO bitcoins which are currently bound to the mining-contract will be returned at the end of august?!

or is theire any risk, you hide?

[Namworld]

Almost, as long as Amazingrando doesn't fail to purchase the bonds back. He's been pretty reliable and trustworthy so far, investing in his own mining operation and giving out dividends on his Bitbond title and to us. He does have a lot of experience in bitcoin mining too. I'm not really worried about that, although something catastrophic could always happen to him. Late payments/default risk are limited to the issuer not being able to continue operating his mining operation and so far it seems more than a healthy one. So pretty much the exact same risks you'd expect from placing your funds with any mining title on GLBSE or with BTC-Mining.

[gewure]

ok, sounds good.

[Tritonio]

http://news.yahoo.com/butterfly-labs-announces-next-generation-asic-lineup-054626776.html

Any ideas when are those coming out?

If we get the minirig, can we sell it back for $15000 as this article says? (or so I understand)

Maybe we could spend the first 15K we gather in the new single units? We could get more than 10 of them for a total of 400Ghash/s.

And then when we collect the next 30K we can get the new minirig for another 1Thash/s.


I still can't believe those numbers. I am reading them again and again... Is this going to happen during 2012???

EDIT: I just read on their site that they will deliver probably on October.

[DiabloD3]

http://news.yahoo.com/butterfly-labs-announces-next-generation-asic-lineup-054626776.html

Any ideas when are those coming out?

If we get the minirig, can we sell it back for $15000 as this article says? (or so I understand)

Maybe we could spend the first 15K we gather in the new single units? We could get more than 10 of them for a total of 400Ghash/s.

And then when we collect the next 30K we can get the new minirig for another 1Thash/s.


I still can't believe those numbers. I am reading them again and again... Is this going to happen during 2012???

Don't bother bringing that up. No one trusts BFL.

[Tritonio]

Don't bother bringing that up. No one trusts BFL.

Aren't we buying their minirig though? Or you mean nobody trusts their specs or their delivery dates?

[DiabloD3]

Don't bother bringing that up. No one trusts BFL.

Aren't we buying their minirig though? Or you mean nobody trusts their specs or their delivery dates?

No one trusts their specs or delivery dates. 28nm also may completely crush it.

[Namworld]

As Diablo said, their announcements have always been a bit... blown into myth material. ASICs shouldn't end up being much more efficient than FPGA. They cost more to design but end up being cheaper to produce so it is good for volume. But they don't end up being a whole lot more performant, even if they are. Not on such a large magnitude. I have high doubts they could pack that kind of processing power in less space than the current FPGAs they use. Probably just an announcement to get some talk about them and visibility. I don't say I approve such tactics but it seems to have worked for them. They end up with acceptable specs, lowest market price. So even if they don't reach their promises, people still buy their equipment. For now I'm waiting for the actual performance expected and product to be put on market to further consider the new ASICs.

[ciuciu]

At what price will amazingrado buy back the bonds?

As Diablo said, their announcements have always been a bit... blown into myth material. ASICs shouldn't end up being much more efficient than FPGA. They cost more to design but end up being cheaper to produce so it is good for volume. But they don't end up being a whole lot more performant, even if they are. Not on such a large magnitude. I have high doubts they could pack that kind of processing power in less space than the current FPGAs they use. Probably just an announcement to get some talk about them and visibility. I don't say I approve such tactics but it seems to have worked for them. They end up with acceptable specs, lowest market price. So even if they don't reach their promises, people still buy their equipment. For now I'm waiting for the actual performance expected and product to be put on market to further consider the new ASICs.

[Tritonio]

At what price will amazingrado buy back the bonds?

The same as the one that we got them at. For every 1BTC we gave him we will get the same 1BTC back.

[Namworld]

Exactly as Tritonio said. They don't gain or lose any value.

[ciuciu]

Exactly as Tritonio said. They don't gain or lose any value.

This is actually great. It means you are in a good position for buying ASICS. Change thread title to reflect this!

[Tritonio]

If you look a few posts above you I was asking about that thing to. The answer was let's wait for the actual specs cause most people don't believe they'll be that high.

On they other hand don't forget that 40% of the mined bitcoins are reinvested. So if things go as intended sometime we will probably buy ASIC hardware too.

Also keep in mind that BFL promises (well, for what their promise is worth) that they will buy back FPGA miners at full cost when you buy ASIC from them. I have totally no idea how they are going to do that to be honest though.

[Namworld]

Mining returns of 28.83860097 BTC paid @ 0.01491909 BTC per share for the week of 17th June to the 23th June of 2012

[P4man]

ASICs shouldn't end up being much more efficient than FPGA. They cost more to design but end up being cheaper to produce so it is good for volume. But they don't end up being a whole lot more performant, even if they are.

You are so wrong. Of course I cant vouch for BFLs promises (particularly when it comes to delivery times), but anyone not believing the numbers BFL publishes are even possible with an ASIC, simply doesnt know what he is talking about. Go ahead and request a free asic here:

http://rijndael.ece.vt.edu/sha3/sha3chip

Or at least read the datasheet. Yes, its a miniature SHA3 test chip but it also has a tiny SHA2 engine as reference. You will find that despite being build on an old 130nm process, despite not being optimized for bitcoins peculiar way of using SHA, despite not even being optimized for generic SHA2 hashing (big compromises were made to include all the SHA3 test algorithms), its actual performance/W seems in line with BFLs claims and some 50x better than current FGPA solutions. 

Bashing BFL is popular around here, and they certainly deserve some flack,  but stop putting your head in the sand when it comes to ASICs. They do have the potential of achieving two orders of magnitude higher performance and higher efficiency than FPGAs, while their variable costs are negligible. Once they start shipping,  28nm FPGAs  will be as relevant for mining as 32nm CPUs were last year.

[Namworld]

But they don't end up being a whole lot more performant, even if they are. Not on such a large magnitude.

Not sure for Jalapeno vs Single or SC Single vs Single, but I calculated for MiniRigs only and the efficiency difference was 20x
MiniRig: 25 000 mhash/15 000 USD = 1.66 mhash/USD
SC MiniRig: 1 000 000 mhash / 30 000 USD = 33.33 mhash/USD

It's not to say that they won't dislodge FPGAs. We're going to motion for going with ASICs instead of FPGAs.

However, from what I read about FPGA vs ASICs, it seemed like performance would be closer to a range of 2 to 4 the performance of FPGAs. 20x just seemed wrong. Although I do have to admit I do now know about specifics for SHA256 ASICs. I do know they should be a lot more power efficient. Around 10x the efficiency. It's really the expected extra performance I had in mind (2 to 4). 20x seems unrealistic, even for ASICs. ALTHOUGH I've heard they did use older chips for those FPGAs. That might have played in there too, although a 20x efficiency jump really is a far shot from what I estimated from reading about the difference between FPGAs and ASICs.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Smart move. 

[P4man]

Not sure for Jalapeno vs Single or SC Single vs Single, but I calculated for MiniRigs only and the efficiency difference was 20x

When I said efficiency, I meant power efficiency as in GH/W.

The price/GH you are talking about is something else entirely. Development of an ASIC is very expensive, production is almost free. As a result,  BFL can price those things almost arbitrarily. I made the estimates in a different thread, assuming BFL used an old 130nm process, a single wafer would yield somewhere between 1 and 10 TH worth of asics. Such a wafer costs about $1000 to process (and a few dollars per chip on top of that for cutting and packaging).  IOW, the PCB, assembly, housing and power supply will cost a lot more than the chip itself. That gives them enormous pricing flexibility.

So its not because BFL now charges "only" 10x less per GH than for FPGAs, that this difference will not go up substantially when difficulty goes up and market value of these ASICs comes crashing down proportionally. Unlike GPUs or FPGAs, these asics can not be sold for anything other than bitcoin, so their price will follow bitcoins price/difficulty from the current peek, to a bottom thats somewhere between one and two orders of magnitude lower. So yeah, Im predicting 1 TH for less than $3000 over the next year, maybe two, depending how many people buy in to this crazy gamble. Or less if a competitor emerges.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Its a bit like buying a new car as opposed to one thats a year or two old.

[Namworld]

It has occured to me that the new MiniRig SC would raise the mhash/share to new, tremendous levels. I almost feel ridiculous stating such vast numbers. But this IPO has always been about buying the best Butterfly Labs equipment and as such, we're now motioning on buying the new ASICs Mini-Rig.

For all people having a stake in this co-purchased operation, please vote now.

[Mushoz]

It has occured to me that the new MiniRig SC would raise the mhash/share to new, tremendous levels. I almost feel ridiculous stating such vast numbers. But this IPO has always been about buying the best Butterfly Labs equipment and as such, we're now motioning on buying the new ASICs Mini-Rig.

For all people having a stake in this co-purchased operation, please vote now.

Why not go with the mini-rig now, and trade it in for an ASIC later? They allow people to trade in their old BFL purchases for 100% of the price you paid for it.

[Namworld]

Technically, until motion pass, we are still going for the Mini-Rig. We might motion about this later. However their delivery time might be long if they ship us a Mini-Rig from the returns they receive and we then have to ship it back. It wouldn't be an advantage in that case. Once motion passes, I will inquire about this and see if it would be advantageous to still pre-buy a MiniRig and request a trade in later.

[ianspain]

subbed

[Tritonio]

If this vote doesn't pass, are we ordering the old mini rig soon? Also if we do, and can we trade it back for the full price to buy the ASIC one?

Right now I lean towards voting No. We'd better buy something to start mining on our own ASAP and we'll switch to ASIC by trading the FPGA back. Or we could even get the FPGA now and use the rest of the shares for the ASIC when all of them are sold.

Can I change my vote later? Anyone care to list the reasons to vote yes?

[Namworld]

Why not go with the mini-rig now, and trade it in for an ASIC later? They allow people to trade in their old BFL purchases for 100% of the price you paid for it.

Technically, until motion pass, we are still going for the Mini-Rig. We might motion about this later. However their delivery time might be long if they ship us a Mini-Rig from the returns they receive and we then have to ship it back. It wouldn't be an advantage in that case. Once motion passes, I will inquire about this and see if it would be advantageous to still pre-buy a MiniRig and request a trade in later.

That. Voting "no" means no ASICs. If we go for ASICs, we will have to motion about if we still go for the FPGAs while we wait.

I'll also have to inquire first:
- If they'd make a new Mini-Rig or give us a refurbished one they get sent for a trade for an ASICs when the order is ready. If they would send us an old one, then obviously the ASICs are ready since you ship the old FPGAs to them when your ASICs order is ready to be shipped.
- If they do send old ones when ASICs are already out and we would have to buy one off of someone else instead to trade it in later, I would also need to get information about equipment return (What if it's broken/doesn't work & what happens if we want to return that unit for the trade in).

Basically, vote no only if you don't want to use ASICs at all. We'll see the options for going FPGAs temporarily after that. According to what I know about people owning shares and their vote, the motion will pass. We're already over 50% "yes" of the total shares sold and only actual votes count in the percentage.

[Tritonio]

Ah OK then. I got that the opposite way. Well yes for me then. One way or another we will move to ASIC IF there is such a hue difference in performance AND the initial Hash/$ ratio.

[Namworld]

https://glbse.com/vote/view/81

Voted Yea:1619
Voted Nay:0
Sold shares: 1933

Over 80% of shares voted yes, with ZERO no. I think the decision has been taken. We will go ASICs

[Namworld]

Mining returns of 31.39996128 BTC paid @ 0.01624416 BTC per share for the week of 24th June to the 30th June of 2012

[Tritonio]

Can anyone predict if the dividends will be higher than the current ones when we get the equipment? Of course we will be making more btc but 40% will not be paid as dividends. (suppose we go FPGA for the prediction)

[Namworld]

Mining returns of 31.72209573 BTC paid @ 0.01641081 BTC per share for the week of 1st July to the 7th July of 2012

Can anyone predict if the dividends will be higher than the current ones when we get the equipment? Of course we will be making more btc but 40% will not be paid as dividends. (suppose we go FPGA for the prediction)

We currently get around 3.63 mhash/s on each share, 100% being given out. If we'd buy FPGA now (with the Bitcoins being close to 7 instead of 5 as in early calculations), we would now buy about 11 mhash/1 BTC share (2200 BTC for the 25400 mhash Mini Rig) with 5.5 mhash going into dividends. A large increase of hashing per share paid out in dividends, not to count the extra part reserved for purchasing more equipment which we don't currently get.

Assuming FPGA. ASICs would get even more but it's hard to get any prediction without knowing the adoption rate of ASICs.

I'm looking for larger buyers who might want my info and have a signed version of the contract (500+ BTC shares purchases), and at the same time bypass the full market fees by transferring the shares directly.

[Namworld]

Mining returns of 30.953787 BTC paid @ 0.0153085 BTC per share for the week of 8th July to the 14th July of 2012

[Tritonio]

I think we've got enough to buy an FPGA mini rig. Should we do a motion while the prices are high?

[Tritonio]

Anyone? It's dropping already I think. Should we get that rig now?

[Namworld]

I'm waiting for reply from BFL for current delays.

As per one of the previous motion, our funds are lended to Bitbond's issuer in exchange of hashing. They are not due back until the end of August.

By then, with the long shipping time, it might not be worthwhile to get the FPGA version then with the ASICs expected not too long afterward. There's no point in ordering one if we receive it after the ASICs are out and must wait after it then ship it back right away.

[Tritonio]

...They are not due back until the end of August...

...By then, with the long shipping time, it might not be worthwhile to get the FPGA version then with the ASICs expected not too long afterward...

Oh sorry I missed the thing about being unable to get the coins back before August. And you are right about getting the ASIC directly if the delays are comparable.

[Namworld]

Mining returns of 30.87029862 BTC paid @ 0.01526721 BTC per share for the week of 15th July to the 21th July of 2012

[Namworld]

Mining returns of 30.20946528 BTC paid @ 0.01453776 BTC per share for the week of 22th July to the 28th July of 2012

[Namworld]

Mining returns of 27.73213913 BTC paid @ 0.01212599 BTC per share for the week of 29th July to the 4th August of 2012

[Namworld]

Well, it seems we are the most funded operation on GLBSE going for ASICs that is not a fixed mhash/s bond, as far as I can see.

We are also getting much closer to be able to afford a first ASIC Mini Rig. We might get in after those who have already ordered like Gigamining and the like, but we will definitely get a better mhash/s rate per BTC than fixed bonds.

Cheers.

[Namworld]

Mining returns of 30.055269 BTC paid @ 0.0127245 BTC per share for the week of 5th August to the 11th August of 2012

[Namworld]

Mining returns of 28.88476689 BTC paid @ 0.01219281 BTC per share for the week of 12 August to 18 August of 2012

[piotr_n]

Sorry, maybe I missed the explanation, but why was the div per share 2 weeks ago lower from the one today?

[Namworld]

If I recall right, there was a larger chunk of shares sold that week for which the BTC was not yet sent to Amazingrando for the hashing loan, thus a lower div per share.

[piotr_n]

Thanks for explaining.
I was curious.

[Tritonio]

This company is NYAN.A approved by the way. We will continue buying!

What do you mean?

[Carnth]

This company is NYAN.A approved by the way. We will continue buying!

What do you mean?

NYAN.A is another GLBSE stock (or "asset") that invests in other GLBSE assets. Think of NYAN.A like a mutual fund of sorts.

Anyway, usagi was just saying that the NYAN.A administrators have purchased shares of BTC-MINING. As NYAN.A only likes to invest "in high quality mining securities, insured investment vehicles, and other extremely low risk securities" ...it was considered a compliment.

[Namworld]

Mining returns of 28.46246895 BTC paid @ 0.01201455 BTC per share for the week of 19 August to 25 August of 2012

[Namworld]

Mining returns of 25.92868131 BTC paid @ 0.01094499 BTC per share for the week of 26 August to 1 September of 2012

[Namworld]

Mining returns of 23.8506182 BTC paid @ 0.0100678 BTC per share for the week of 2 September to 8 September of 2012

[Bugpowder]

I guess you havent ordered yet the rig, Namworld. Isnt it wise to do so, before the waiting list is extremely long ?

The waiting list is already long and the product is still vaporware. Optimal strategy is probably to keep the capital paying dividends until shipping actually starts, then place the order.

[Namworld]

As bugpowder said, product is still vaporware. Beside, the waiting time for FPGA started getting shorter later on.

I'm unsure were people get the idea the list only gets longer and longer or that it's even getting extremely long. The list is not disclosed. They'll increase production capacity if there's more orders than they can produce coming in.

We're looking at getting a new mhash rate on our loan to BITBOND when they upgrade to ASIC, assuming we do not reach enough for the first rig by then.

[nameface]

I'm starting to believe in this bond Price seems low.
Canada-based bonds have an inherent advantage because power is so cheap there.

[Namworld]

Mining returns of 23.48979581 BTC paid @ 0.00991549 BTC per share for the week of 9 September to 15 September of 2012

I'm starting to believe in this bond Price seems low.
Canada-based bonds have an inherent advantage because power is so cheap there.

Thanks.

Mostly due to the very abundant streams of water. A lot of hydroelectric power plants making up almost 100% of the production. A few odd percents in wind power and nuclear.

[Atlas]

How is this stock holding up?

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

How is this stock holding up?

Pretty good, mining returns should be paid out today

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Shouldn't there be dividends today?

[Namworld]

The funds were not available earlier. They just came in 3 hours ago.

Bitbond occasionally pays us a bit late. The issuer is often busy and has to calculate us apart from the BITBOND holders and it sometimes happen to be transfered late.

Here they are:

Mining returns of 22.81721302 BTC paid @ 0.00963158 BTC per share for the week of 16 September to 22 September of 2012

[stepkrav]

Its some time now that even though TotalVol฿ is increasing, shares number is stuck at 2369. Am i right? Can someone explain this?

[Namworld]

Its some time now that even though TotalVol฿ is increasing, shares number is stuck at 2369. Am i right? Can someone explain this?

Top many people buying/selling in the 0.80 - 0.99 range, no actual shares being sold.

[zapeta]

A couple quick questions-

How close are we to being able to purchase actual hardware?  Obviously $/BTC has increased greatly since April when the IPO started.

Have you considered any action to help sell the IPO shares?  Maybe you could remove the ask wall and release the shares in smaller batches if the price gets back up to 1 BTC/share?  Just throwing out some ideas.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Its some time now that even though TotalVol฿ is increasing, shares number is stuck at 2369. Am i right? Can someone explain this?

Buy and sell in the spread for massive profit 

The only way to profit on glbse is not to hold shares for too long.

[Mushoz]

A couple quick questions-

How close are we to being able to purchase actual hardware?  Obviously $/BTC has increased greatly since April when the IPO started.

Have you considered any action to help sell the IPO shares?  Maybe you could remove the ask wall and release the shares in smaller batches if the price gets back up to 1 BTC/share?  Just throwing out some ideas.

This is definitely a very good idea and should be considered IMO. Maybe create a motion for this? I think the wall is providing a lot of downward pressure, which prevents any actual new shares from being sold. If it doesn't work, it's not like we lost anything

[stepkrav]

are the divident payments late?

[Namworld]

Mining returns of 22.09481016 BTC paid @ 0.00932664 BTC per share for the week of 23 September to 29 September of 2012

are the divident payments late?

Yes, I contacted Amazingrando, seems he remembered having paid us this week but had actually not.

[stepkrav]

So what will happen with our shares, now glbse.com is off?

[Namworld]

Q:I'm a GLBSE user, what about my assets and my bitcoin?

You will be able to get back your bitcoin, and if you want to reveal your username, email, and a bitcoin address to accept payments with, you can continue your relationship with the issuer of any assets you hold.

We will begin retuning bitcoin once we have recieved all coins from the GLBSE treasurer that manages the GLBSE cash reserves. BitcoinGlobal (GLBSE's partent company) shareholders and board voted for them to be returned immediately, we are awaiting compliance with this order.

Well we hope that this really happen. Same as everything on GLBSE.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Any news.. ?

[Namworld]

Currently no news on GLBSE's part.

As for Amazingrando, I've been in contact with him and he had taken a leave for personal reasons which I shall discuss no further, anything GLBSE related being on hold in any case. This was already proposed and he requested an address to forward payment which I provided.

I will keep everyone updated on that matter when it payments for the previous weeks are received or if I receive any info from GLBSE or something new occurs.

[Namworld]

Partial asset list received.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvwwyRGyc1WgdDFUajZmcWtQc2xVZUlGNXBvbWg1ZXc&pli=1#gid=0

Please check this link and check if you are included and amount of shares is correct (Only the first characters of email/BTC address are shown)

PM me with confirmation of which entry you are and if entry is correct.

[DiabloD3]

Partial asset list received.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvwwyRGyc1WgdDFUajZmcWtQc2xVZUlGNXBvbWg1ZXc&pli=1#gid=0

Please check this link and check if you are included and amount of shares is correct (Only the first characters of email/BTC address are shown)

PM me with confirmation of which entry you are and if entry is correct.

I know this is a partial list, but I'm not on it.

[stepkrav]

Which bitcoin address is this? I had plenty deposit addresses in glbse

[Namworld]

If you can't identify your line, PM me to talk about it.

Can you PM me the email you provided, stepkrav?

[Bitcoin Oz]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvwwyRGyc1WgdDFUajZmcWtQc2xVZUlGNXBvbWg1ZXc&pli=1#gid=0

Please check this link and check if you are included and amount of shares is correct (Only the first characters of email/BTC address are shown)

PM me with confirmation of which entry you are and if entry is correct.

Over 2300 BTC funded @ over 10$ each at current market rate

(NUMBERS) estimates will vary according to current BTC price in USD as it directly affects how many ASICs can be purchased.

Hello,

BTCMining.ca is a co-owned mining operation where each member owns a part of the equipment (COOP like operation).

It will operate in Montreal, Canada. Initial planned output is (3 Terahash/s) using Butterfly Labs ASICs Rigs and administration fees are 10% as per contract.

Quicklinks:
Website: BTCMining.ca
Contract: http://www.btcmining.ca/contract or see GLBSE page
Buy shares: https://glbse.com/asset/view/BTC-MINING

Advantages

• (300 mhash/share) @ 1 BTC each: Includes 50% returned to members, 40% for buying new equipment to replace and expand and a low 10% administration fee.
• Equipment will be insured against theft and fire. /covered by the 10% fees
• Equipment will be maintained /covered by the 10% fees
• Operation's power bill and supporting material: cables, computers, cooling, extras, etc. /covered by the 10% fees
• All equipment is owned by the members. They are entitled to 100% of sale proceeds with no fee assessed by management if the operation stops.
• Green and cheap energy: Hydroelectric power @ $0.075/kwh
• Cheap and clear fees (10%) compared to many other mining operations. Others have undisclosed percentage of fees or 100%+ Pay Per Share hashing power perpetual bonds without disclosing how much actual hashing power they buy in total with the funds or which amount goes into keeping it perpetual or admin fees.

(3 ASICs Mini Rigs) will be purchased for (300 mhash/share), with 10% for administrative fees, 40% reinvested in more equipment for the members and 50% paid out in dividends.
Detailed expected initial numbers for IPO:BTC-Mining IPO page

Need anything clarified? Post your questions and I'll update this post.

10000 shares will be issued on IPO, with the possibility to vote to issue more should the members wish to expand even faster.

Regards,
Juan-Samuel

Hashing power bonds purchased (Most recent)
Spent = 214 x 11 BTC = 2354 BTC
Bought = 214 x 40 mhash = 8560 mhash/s
Those bond will be bought back by issuer later at the same price they were purchased. These private bonds are purchased to get a few returns on our capital while we sell shares so the bitcoins don't idle in the account.

Dividends Statement

I am buying 40 mhash/11 BTC, or ~3.63 mhash/BTC (100%) in dividends until we can afford the mini-rigs.

Amazingrando, issuer of Bitbond, would be the hashing power provider. While he's not endorsing us or differing much from his usual bonds structure, it would help BTC-Mining's concept to take off. I will be donating him a few shares from the ones I purchased and if you are interested by and want to buy in into BTC-Mining, I would suggest you make him a donation too as a token of gratitude so he gets a few parts in the operation for helping it take off.

You can donate to Amazingrando by transfering a few BTC-Mining shares to username: amazingrando

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FAQ
Many people asks us why we don't offer the same as other mining operations or requests something different, basically wanting more mining bonds. We are simply not offering bonds, but an alternative. We will try to explain why we chose that structure. You can judge whether that makes sense to you and if it is what you are looking for.
 
Q. Why should I wait for the equipment delivery when I can get hashing now? Why should I wait for returns?
Answer: Because you are actually buying the equipment with others. You have a right to 100% of the equipment's sale if it is voted to be sold if and when people want to stop the operation. You get lower administrative fees and better advantages that way for waiting some time and pre-funding your own equipment instead of buying a fraction of a current mining operation.

Q. Why 40% reinvested? What if I want 100% proceeds? Why not issue more share to replace equipment and just give people 100% of mining now?
Answer: Because under that model, we would get more and more shares for simply replacing the equipment, basically keeping the same hashing power for a growing amount of share while still having to sell as many shares at the same price for each replacement. Shares dilution would occur and the operation would die out since people don't pay for the replacement of the equipment power associated to their shares. Getting new shares sales to pay for the replacement of the hashing of your old shares would not be right. Equipment needs to be replaced and extra equipment added for the shares to gain value and the operation to grow. You also need growing hashing power to compete with increasing difficulty.

Q. But other mining operations offer 100%+ Perpetual PPS paid right now! Why would I need to reinvest 40%?
Answer: You get 100%+ PPS on a specific hashing power from current miners' hardware who would then buy with your funds more hashing power then you actually bought with it. This extra hashing they buy is usually an undisclosed amount on which they get their profit and pay for the replacement needed to keep it a perpetual bond. You get 100% of the hashing they agreed to give you. With us, you know the fees are a low 10% because it is a service we provide and you funded the equipment in advance. Although the dividends are a bit lower, the 40% reinvested is all equipment that is added to YOUR part in the hashing power. It's a long term investment with a growth plan. Look at the planned numbers here: Expected hashing and returns

Q. It looks interesting, but I am afraid others won't buy or like it. What if shares don't sell fast enough and my funds are withheld for a long period until we can purchase equipment?
Answer: There's a maximum period for the IPO of 2 months (Ending June 23rd).* It don't think people should let emotion interfere with how they place their money. Ponder whether the terms are interesting and if the wait time is worth it. If you like the terms, the best way to make it happen would be to invest to speed the process and encourage others to do the same thing.

I've negotiated a hashing power deal. I will be privately buying 40 mhash/11BTC bonds with the funds that will be reimbursed by the end of august. See announcement. With the discounted hashing power we're buying, it's currently more advantageous to buy BTC-Mining than other traditional mining operation shares considering you get returns during the funding phase and 100% of funds will still go on the newest hardware.

*I'd still try to get your shares purchased back after on the 23rd June if you still really want to get off. Just request it.

Q. Why not place the money in Pirate Bonds or something else to get returns for people while we gather funds for the equipment?
Answer: For the pirate bonds, there's some controversy about it even if pirateat40 is trusted. Many have doubts about the up to 7% returns a week being even close to realistic or feasible. Many are pro pirate, but many are also sure he will default. Personally I do not believe it is a safe investment. This is a mining only operation and I am offering a professional management service. I am not going to start risking and placing people's money which I've been entrusted with left and right when they are intending to be co-buying Butterfly Lab mining equipment. We are holding those funds for the purchase of the offered mining equipment only.

Q. So it is a long term investment?
Answer: Definitely. And you would still get approximately 3.75 mhash/BTC of dividends with current IPO on the 50% dividends, a better rate than most current titles because they raised in value immediatly after IPO. (Current valued at 2.70 - 3.40 mhash per BTC). That's not counting the massive reinvestment of 40% as an extra. The waiting time should be worth your while. This would be possible because you are funding the equipment yourself, we only service it.

IMPORTANT NOTICES & EVENTS
Shares left countdown: 7987

Raffle & Discount shares
As a way to promote BTC-Mining out of the securities forum, I'm offering discounted shares and a raffle paid out of my own pocket. Those shares are purchased from my personal account and resold at a small discount/raffled. Participate in the thread.

[Namworld]

PLEASE GO HERE FOR GLBSE CLOSEDOWN CLAIMS INFORMATION:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=129362.0

[Tritonio]

Has anyone discussed ideas regarding how the operation will continue? (or if it continues?)

Will it be listed on another website? Maybe on http://picostocks.com/ or https://cryptostocks.com/ ? Picostocks seems interesting.

[creativex]

Has anyone discussed ideas regarding how the operation will continue? (or if it continues?)

Will it be listed on another website? Maybe on http://picostocks.com/ or https://cryptostocks.com/ ? Picostocks seems interesting.

https://btct.co/security/BTC-MINING

[Tritonio]

https://btct.co/security/BTC-MINING

O_O When did this happen? I have never seen this website. It's not even on the trade page on the wiki. (registering now)

[creativex]

's been around awhile, just getting some real traffic fairly recently as GLBSE assets have begun to trickle in. It's set up with the same software as litecoinglobal.com.

[Namworld]

I just moved BTC-BOND and now will do so for BTC-MINING soon.

It's the same as Litecoinglobal. Same business, same software. Only for BTC instead.

[Tritonio]

Great! Tell us what we need to do when you are ready Namworld.

[burnside]

I just moved BTC-BOND and now will do so for BTC-MINING soon.

It's the same as Litecoinglobal. Same business, same software. Only for BTC instead.

Quick reminder, unlock it for voting when you've reviewed the contract and think it's ready.

Cheers.

[creativex]

I'm having a little trouble with the contract as posted on BTC-TC is it incomplete? There's a lot of talk about equipment maintenance, but there doesn't appear to be any equipment currently listed on the website, is that an error? I guess the fundamental problem I have is that I've no idea what buying a share of BTC-Mining means. Is there an asset list somewhere that I missed?

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

I assume you're going to pay out all the missed dividends on BTC-TC?

[Namworld]

Well Amazingrando has not been answering PMs at all. Can't seem to get a hold of him. Getting really irritated over it. He hasn't been talking much to his BITBOND holders either.

[Tritonio]

It looks like Amazingrando answered (partially?) to BIT-BOND owners about their dividends or some.

Aaaah this GLBSE shutdown has stirred up a lot of trouble...

[Tritonio]

Ah perfect... Now he's (AmazingRando) going to get a scammer tag: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136803.0

And he's still missing, right?

[Mushoz]

Any news on how we are going to continue?

[Tritonio]

Well AmazingRando hasn't even showed up. A theory was that when BFL ships his ASIC's he will show up and perhaps pay up. Honestly I've started to doubt that.

Now if he doesn't show up how would you say we should go after him? Can he be sued or something?

Allegedly BFL will start shipping in two weeks but that's another thing I have trouble believing in...

[Deprived]

Well AmazingRando hasn't even showed up. A theory was that when BFL ships his ASIC's he will show up and perhaps pay up. Honestly I've started to doubt that.

Now if he doesn't show up how would you say we should go after him? Can he be sued or something?

Allegedly BFL will start shipping in two weeks but that's another thing I have trouble believing in...

AmazingRando DID show up - and made a thread talking about how we was going to srot out Bitbond (basically spend what cash he had left from the dividends he owes on ASICs, keep a chunk of what they mine for himself and give some scraps to his investors).  He didn't comment on his debt to BTC-Mining despite namworld asking about it in the thread.  He has now locked that thread and disappeared again.

[Tritonio]

So the guy has actually defaulted but doesn't accept it. So instead of liquidating everything and giving back to the bondholders whatever he can so that they themselves decide how to recover their losses, he keeps whatever money is left + equipment and demands that he should be the one to do the damage control by mining with ASIC. (which he also divides equally over all investors even though the big ones didn't pay for them)

He just keeps violating his contract on and on... He is really amazing, it's not just his nickname.

Let's wait a few more days for Namworld to grab a hold of him on Skype.

[Tritonio]

Any news from Rando? Did we lend our BTC to that guy under a completely different contract, or did we buy his bITBOND perpetual mining bonds from him with an added promise that he will buy back at some specific point?

[Namworld]

Promise to buy back, no bitbonds bought, we get 40 mhash/11 BTC. Completely separate deal.

[Tritonio]

Still no word from him?

Last Active:   February 20, 2013, 07:42:01 AM

But no posts since Feb 5...

[stepkrav]

any updates?

[Tritonio]

If rando is lying about not having money to pay back, then we should go after him. Would anyone be willing to pay so that we ask a lawyer if we can do something about this situation?

If rando is indeed telling the truth then obviously going after him would only cost us more...

So which one is the case?

Do we know what country rando is residing in?

[bumbo]

Well, why has rando's identity not been published yet?

[peterepeat]

Namworld, the BTC owned by the shareholders is now worth more than 430 000 USD, where we could be purchasing many more TH of equipment by now.
I dont think you can just say its loaned to some other guy and leave it at that. Can you?

[DiabloD3]

Namworld, the BTC owned by the shareholders is now worth more than 430 000 USD, where we could be purchasing many more TH of equipment by now.
I dont think you can just say its loaned to some other guy and leave it at that. Can you?

No court will handle a case involving Bitcoins, otherwise Namworld would have already tried to recover the stolen money from AmazingRando.

[Namworld]

Namworld, the BTC owned by the shareholders is now worth more than 430 000 USD, where we could be purchasing many more TH of equipment by now.
I dont think you can just say its loaned to some other guy and leave it at that. Can you?

More like 270k USD when counting outstanding shares. The rest used to be my shares on GLBSE. I had put a lot of BTC aside into BTC-MINING too.

They were loaned to amazingrando. There's extensive logs in my private messages between amazingrando and me regarding the terms and transfers of BTC with numerous confirmations from Amazingrando of receiving the BTC and owing mining payment (as well as the repayment date). I guess I'd need Theymos or some mod to take a look and confirm here? I'll PM Theymos about it.

[Tritonio]

No court will handle a case involving Bitcoins, otherwise Namworld would have already tried to recover the stolen money from AmazingRando.

Why not? I'm not saying that they will definitely handle it, but what is their refusal going to be based on?

[DiabloD3]

No court will handle a case involving Bitcoins, otherwise Namworld would have already tried to recover the stolen money from AmazingRando.

Why not? I'm not saying that they will definitely handle it, but what is their refusal going to be based on?

Bitcoins are not yet recognized hy the law as existing.

[Tritonio]

You sure that it really matters if the law recognizes them? We could simply say that we gave him 20K dollars (or whatever was the equivalent back them) in bitcoins. How much would that be BTW?

[theymos]

They were loaned to amazingrando. There's extensive logs in my private messages between amazingrando and me regarding the terms and transfers of BTC with numerous confirmations from Amazingrando of receiving the BTC and owing mining payment (as well as the repayment date). I guess I'd need Theymos or some mod to take a look and confirm here? I'll PM Theymos about it.

Based on the PMs, it seems that Namworld had 2354 BTC invested with Amazingrando as of August 13, 2012.

[Namworld]

They were loaned to amazingrando. There's extensive logs in my private messages between amazingrando and me regarding the terms and transfers of BTC with numerous confirmations from Amazingrando of receiving the BTC and owing mining payment (as well as the repayment date). I guess I'd need Theymos or some mod to take a look and confirm here? I'll PM Theymos about it.

Based on the PMs, it seems that Namworld had 2354 BTC invested with Amazingrando as of August 13, 2012.

2354 BTC for 11 BTC x 214 loan units for hashing, with 15 BTC left. For a total 2354 + 15 = 2369 issued shares.

[Deprived]

They were loaned to amazingrando. There's extensive logs in my private messages between amazingrando and me regarding the terms and transfers of BTC with numerous confirmations from Amazingrando of receiving the BTC and owing mining payment (as well as the repayment date). I guess I'd need Theymos or some mod to take a look and confirm here? I'll PM Theymos about it.

Based on the PMs, it seems that Namworld had 2354 BTC invested with Amazingrando as of August 13, 2012.

2354 BTC for 11 BTC x 214 loan units for hashing, with 15 BTC left. For a total 2354 + 15 = 2369 issued shares.

Did you obtain proof of his identity before sending him all the BTC?
Did you obtain proof of any significant assets he owned (to go after now) in case BTC price rose?

I don't do a lot of lending - but if I did (and it was a significant sum) minimum I'd require would be conclusive proof of ID and proof of assets showing ability to repay if BTC price rose (mining operations lose value when BTC price rises - both in terms of realisable value of hardware and also due to less BTC being mined due to increased mining coming online in response to the increased price).

[Tritonio]

We should schedule a talk over IRC. Anyone want to start a doodle (www.doodle.com) about it?

[Tritonio]

I pledge a half of my 46 Bitbond bonds to anyone who will recover them by a legal action.
If enough people here do the same, possibly someone will get off from his ass and start moving things.

I have 30 shares, I will give away 15 (on cryptostocks) if somebody will start legal case against him.

Maybe we should join them?

[peterepeat]

I have some BTC-Mining from GLBSE and would like to see this settled.
I see on BTCT the following moderator comments:
YES 5 / 4 NO    (2 ABSTAINING -- Users with 10 or more shares of LTC-GLOBAL are allowed to vote.)

Anonymous voted NO with comment: A mining company with no equipment is no mining operation.
Anonymous voted NO with comment: Asset has no hardware.
Anonymous voted NO with comment: Is this misrepresentation? No info on hardware, looks like a fund.
Anonymous voted NO with comment: Lending out most raised funds without ID for the borrower OR proof he could repay if BTC rose massively

Namworld, can you please comment on what is going on? It sounds like you may know amazingrando - can you ask him to please return our BTC. Thanks.

edited for manners 

[Namworld]

I do not know amazingrando. As for commenting, I think that has been done in details. What would you like to know?

[peterepeat]

I do not know amazingrando. As for commenting, I think that has been done in details. What would you like to know?

I was thinking of your comment here, where it sounds like he was sorting things out and "requested an address to forward payment" which you provided:

Currently no news on GLBSE's part.

As for Amazingrando, I've been in contact with him and he had taken a leave for personal reasons which I shall discuss no further, anything GLBSE related being on hold in any case. This was already proposed and he requested an address to forward payment which I provided.

I will keep everyone updated on that matter when it payments for the previous weeks are received or if I receive any info from GLBSE or something new occurs.

[Namworld]

Yes, he did give up some excuses for being slow to reply, although he was answering, and I provided him a payment address as he requested. He never did anything about it however.

I do not know him anymore than most around here.

[peterepeat]

Thanks.
Maybe he will pay it back when he gets his Avalons 

[Tritonio]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75126.msg2190488#msg2190488

Is this for real? Namworld if that's true then you might be able to help them with anything you know about rando.

Also, we should do that IRC meeting, if others are also interested of course.

[peterepeat]

Dividend just paid. Has anyone heard any news?

[Tritonio]

Dividend just paid. Has anyone heard any news?

What? What dividend??

EDIT: I just saw the payment. What's up with that? Did Robin Hood rob Rando?

[peterepeat]

Dividend just paid. Has anyone heard any news?

What? What dividend??

EDIT: I just saw the payment. What's up with that? Did Robin Hood rob Rando?

Btc- mining just paid 0.01002004 per share https://btct.co/security/BTC-MINING

[Namworld]

No, just the holdings as per the details page, 15 BTC amazingrando didn't receive.

Some people wanted to chat with me about taking it to courts but never ended up following with it. If anyone is seriously interested, please contact me.