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Author Topic: MY opinion on Proof of developer and some suggestions,  (Read 913 times)
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barwizi
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September 07, 2014, 09:32:04 PM
 #1

You are free to post anything that isn't overboard, but maintains relevance

Oh...and i don't tolerate trolls.


I was recently asked by some shrew on the NRS thread to "submit" to Proof of developer by CryptoAsian

Here is my response and i'd like to hear the community's opinion on my thoughts.

1) No, i will not "submit" myself to this hogwash (no offence CryptoAsian , but i think you are doing it wrong)

here is why:-

The total of the Proof of Dev verification is nothing but an identity verification. It has zero to do with one's ability to develop, or guarantee his willingness to stay and further the project. If we are going to have a real Proof of Dev system, then let's make it legitimately about development and stay the course. I fully understand that the community is tired of scammers and  pump and dumps and as a result this system came up , and i hear he does it free, good on him.

However, to create a viable system, we have to consider the issues at hand, we need innovation and devs that stick.

Here is a partial solution, that anyone interested can help set up (i'm sure if we talk to the mods they'll help)

1) We have a rating system 1-5 (just like CryptoAsian)  but it's based on the coins merits , judged by a panel of trusted forum members who have looked at the code.

i) Clone (1) this basically means no effort was put into the creation of this coin and it is not recommended to mine
ii) Clone+ this is a clone with a few new ideas  that can maybe set it aside from a typical clone
iii) Fresh, this means a coin going in a whole new direction
iv) Fresh+ is a coin going in a different direction and has visible active development
v) Score , this refers to a coin which has been verified to be different enough to not be a clone/goes in a different direction AND has confirmed development activity spanning a set span of time , proving developer commitment

This is a result-based rating system, that actually looks at the development, and allows coins to traverse up or down the scale.

How to actually implement the system?

We just have a stickied thread that maintains a list of coins that have been vetted and rated.

Who decides what is what?

I think that a simple election can be done to name the board and the members can be fired or hired by the community. We can simplify the process ( here's the kicker) by using NoirShares 2.0 or MMC 2.0, (i'd like it if we used NoirShares but MMC will do just fine too). The two mentioned coins have FreeTrade's Blockchain based voting system integrated into them (yes i cloned it, it's pretty good) which can be used to "hire" the council of whose job it will be to vet new coins. Once they rate it, it's posted to the thread and the OP.

Why support this?

Well firstly, it will start to discourage the people who use scrypt cloning guide (why does it even exist?) since their coins will always get a low rating and low support.

Secondly, since you guys invest a lot into alts, would it not be perfect to just logon, see a list of new coins and be able to easily discount the dubious looking ones? (note: we can tell you there is development, not whether it is a scam, unless the scam is in the code or linked to code related stuff)


Thirdly because it is a decentralized solution for which anyone and everyone (even with 0.001 NRS/MMC) can contribute to. You actually have influence over who actually does the assessment and if you don't like the current one, you can vote and help get your own candidate on the Job.

Four, it creates an honest job for some of the devs who waste time and energy on clones, thereby reducing the pool of devs who collectively waste our time and spam the forum with rebranded coins.

Five, the scam will begin to subside and the forum will start to get a bit cleaner and more coherent .

We dont need much from the mods, just a thread stickied that can be modified by using a single account whose details will be shared among the council , and if one gets fired, the password changes. Essentially, we make the altcoin ANN section, community moderated.

See? while we cannot force devs to stay, we basically can warn the community when something is amiss well in advance. And in the event that a dve in on the run, the community knows and maybe someone will pick up the torch. So, thats ANN threads and REVAMP threads dealt with in one go.

Ask me to "submit" to this kind of proof of dev and i wont have a problem.

What say ye?
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September 07, 2014, 10:08:36 PM
 #2

I believe the best way is to 'keep things the way they are'..

What I mean to say is, those who can't read the code can research or offer a bounty for someone to do so.
I'm not a fan of setting up some sort of central authority that hands out approvals according to exploitable standards.
Also, I'm pretty sure exchanges wouldn't commit to such a policy - since they are currently to occupied racing eachother to find a new shitcoin to list.

Let the market do it's thing. Dumb money burns quick, and you can see a slight change of mentality since last few weeks.
I'm sure things will catch up again.

 




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September 07, 2014, 10:27:27 PM
Last edit: September 08, 2014, 06:32:35 AM by Spoetnik
 #3

i am not overly against anything you have said but i have some thoughts..

you said..
Quote
the scam will begin to subside and the forum will start to get a bit cleaner and more coherent .

then you mentioned this grouping of sorts..
Quote
iii) Fresh, this means a coin going in a whole new direction

this will be a highly sought after group to be labelled as so.. that make me think one thing.
is this new direction GOOD or BAD ?
and here lies the debate and the vast majority of ALL the problems that persist in the Altcoin scene.
That right there is the root cause of so much drama / infighting and so called Trolling and FUD'ing.
The reality is we all don't get along and agree with what is a step forward OR backwards..

i thought when Memory Coin came out from FreeTrade his coin voting system was the most clever piece of coding scamminess i witnessed in all of crypto
and i believe that is what you are referring to earlier..
partly because of how he implemented it, advertised it and used it ..not just the code itself alone.

It's worth pointing out that FreeTrade abandoned his Memory Coin when he lost "majority control" and publicly stated the coin was over and done
effectively killing it dead and then way later coming back for a MemoryCoin 2.0 launch later and seemingly dropping it again..
jerking investors around like a yo yo..

When it comes to crypto scams Memory Coin was the best and most creative i ever seen.. i was pretty impressed how he launched
the coin and said nothing to anyone except a small line or two mentioning it in passing on his ANN topic
and in the coins wallet there was no word about "voting" in anyway shape or form anywhere at all !

So... there was no info provided on launch or soon after on HOW to vote or what any of the voting stuff meant in the slightest
and while he sat quietly he kicked back accumulating the majority of mined coins as i could see clearly in my debug log i STILL have..
while people kept mining away.. eventually after he had his majority position under control more info leaked out on how it all worked
but by that point he did what he set out to do and already made a LOT of coins !

It was and still is an ingenious system he devised that pulled the wool of the eyes of the ENTIRE altcoin scene and you all ate it up fast and hard.
even after he said he is discontinuing the coin because he lost majority vote control (coin revenue)
virtually nobody at all anywhere said anything bad.. they kept kissing ass (bag holder aids disease syndrome)
So he started the coin and harvested a revenue stream from it then when it was not as profitable he shut it down.. simple as that !
His claimed it was for charity  Roll Eyes

And the guy soon after went on to make (post here) PTS / Protoshares and when i brought up what i said (which is publicly posted common knowledge) he demanded
it had nothing to do with his new coin and he said i was trolling and went on to delete all my comments and try and discredit me and anything i said.
and yeah..... what a dev does on one coin DOES matter on his NEXT coin !

I had said don't you think PTS / Protoshares guys should be aware of your past history of deliberately killing your own coins ?
And he responded by promptly changing the PTS ANN topic title and replying back to me he didn't even make the coin LOL
He said.. after sooooo many pages of pretending to be the dev, that.. Invictus Innovations made the coin and he was just posting it  Roll Eyes
and he then added "Invictus Innovations" to the topic title and why did he not do that on the coins launch and only when i cornered him ? hmmmm LOL
Is that not obvious guys ?
Search the forum here for Invictus and see what turns up people Wink

So You want those guys and their swirling vortex of nameless accounts running things ? or who else ?
Using scam coin code ? made by a scammer who just keeps dropping some scheme for a new one ?
each one better than the last *supposedly..
like WTF is a clone then guys ?
If you make ONE turn on a Rubiks Cube and set it down on the table is that a brand new item ?
The innovation illusion is a big problem and so is defining some coins such as IPO coins as Fresh new ideas etc

There is enough coins already.. we have a 1,000 of them there shouldn't be any more coins made, so we don't need a system to "vet" them.
Unless we have a real contender to take down Bitcoin and so far i have seen nothing that even comes close in any way shape or form.
We simply need guys to stop cooking up excuses to fabricate a new gimmick and illusion of innovation for the sake of making a new coin to get in on early.
And when i see the top 5 coins at coinmarketcap.. i see scam coins except for BTC and LTC so are we going to agree on what is good or bad ?
nope.
but we'll vote you guys say right ?
well the results will be challenged and refuted hard i have no doubt.

i appreciate the sentiment if your sincere OP and i like the idea of making a positive step forward but i don't think this will work too well to be honest.
and what do i suggest then ? sadly i wish i had a good idea but i just don't.. i don't know what the hell to do about it all Sad
I hate to complain with out offering a constructive suggestion etc.

FUD first & ask questions later™
barwizi
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September 07, 2014, 10:56:18 PM
 #4

i am not overly against anything you have said but i have some thoughts..

you said..
Quote
the scam will begin to subside and the forum will start to get a bit cleaner and more coherent .

then you mentioned this grouping of sorts..
Quote
iii) Fresh, this means a coin going in a whole new direction

this will be a highly sought after group to be labelled as so.. that make me think one thing.
is this new direction GOOD or BAD ?
and here lies the debate and the vast majority of ALL the problems that persist in the Altcoin scene.
That right there is the root cause of so much drama / infighting and so called Trolling and FUD'ing.
The reality is we all don't get along and agree with what is a step forward OR backwards..

i thought when Memory Coin came out from FreeTrade his coin voting system was the most clever piece of coding scamminess i witnessed in all of crypto
and i believe that is what you are referring to earlier..
partly because of how he implemented it, advertised it and used it ..not just the code itself alone.

It's worth pointing out that FreeTrade abandoned his Memory Coin when he last "majority control" and publicly stated the coin was over and done
effectively killing it dead and then way later coming back for a MemoryCoin 2.0 launch later and seemingly dropping it again..
jerking investors around like a yo yo..

When it comes to crypto scams Memory Coin was the best and most creative i ever seen.. i was pretty impressed how he launched
the coin and said nothing to anyone except a small line or two mentioning it in passing on his ANN topic
and in the coins wallet there was no word about "voting" in anyway shape or form anywhere at all !

So... there was no info provided on launch or soon after on HOW to vote or what any of the voting stuff meant in the slightest
and while he sat quietly he kicked back accumulating the majority of mined coins as i could see clearly in my debug log i STILL have..
while people kept mining away.. eventually after he had his majority position under control more info leaked out on how it all worked
but by that point he did what he set out to do and already made a LOT of coins !

It was and still is an ingenious system he devised that pulled the wool of the eyes of the ENTIRE altcoin scene and you all ate it up fast and hard.
even after he said he is discontinuing the coin because he lost majority vote control (coin revenue)
virtually nobody at all anywhere said anything bad.. they kept kissing ass (bag holder aids disease syndrome)
So he started the coin and harvested a revenue stream from it then when it was not as profitable he shut it down.. simple as that !
His claimed it was for charity  Roll Eyes

And the guy soon after went on to make (post here) PTS / Protoshares and when i brought up what i said (which is publicly posted common knowledge) he demanded
it had nothing to do with his new coin and he said i was trolling and went on to delete all my comments and try and discredit me and anything i said.
and yeah..... what a dev does on one coin DOES matter on his NEXT coin !

I had said don't you think PTS / Protoshares guys should be aware of your past history of deliberately killing your own coins ?
And he responded by promptly changing the PTS ANN topic title and replying back to me he didn't even make the coin LOL
He said.. after sooooo many pages of pretending to be the dev, that.. Invictus Innovations made the coin and he was just posting it  Roll Eyes
and he then added "Invictus Innovations" tot he topic title and why did he not do that on the coins launch and only when i cornered him ? hmmmm LOL
Is that not obvious guys ?
Search the forum here for Invictus and see what turns up people Wink

So You want those guys and their swirling vortex of nameless accounts running things ? or who else ?
Using scam coin code ? made by a scammer who just keeps dropping some scheme for a new one ?
each one better than the last *supposedly..
like WTF is a clone then guys ?
If you make ONE turn on a Rubiks Cube and set it down on the table is that a brand new item ?
The innovation illusion is a big problem and so is defining some coins such as IPO coins as Fresh new ideas etc

There is enough coins already.. we have a 1,000 of them there shouldn't be any more coins made, so we don't need a system to "vet" them.
Unless we have a real contender to take down Bitcoin and so far i have seen nothing that even comes close in anyway shape or form.
We simply need guys to stop cooking up excuses to fabricate a new gimmick and illusion of innovation for the sake of making a new coin to get in on early.
And when i see the top 5 coins at coinmarketcap.. i see scam coins except for BTC and LTC so are we going to agree on what is good or bad ?
nope.
but we'll vote you guys say right ?
well the results will be challenged and refuted hard i have no doubt.

i appreciate the sentiment if your sincere OP and i like the idea of making a positive step forward but i don't think this will work too well to be honest.
and what do i suggest then ? sadly i wish i had a good idea but i just don't.. i don't know what the hell to do about it all Sad
I hate to complain with out offering a constructive suggestion etc.

Yeah, it sucks, well, it's worth a try , we have to do something soon, the mods will never be able to catch up to the sheer post volume on this forum
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September 08, 2014, 12:02:50 AM
 #5

Funny you mention the scrypt cloning guide when NoirBits are a 'foocoin' in their original implimemtation Wink
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September 08, 2014, 12:19:37 AM
 #6

CA and Bittrex are responsible for several scams, they work together to pump coins. Bittrex even paid-off CA 1btc
barwizi
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September 08, 2014, 12:39:17 AM
 #7

Funny you mention the scrypt cloning guide when NoirBits are a 'foocoin' in their original implimemtation Wink

And just how old is NoirBits? See, thing is, people grow in the community, learn. And pass on what they have learnt. I learnt that there are too many coins, and guess what i am doing? I am merging tow of them and urging others to do the same.

if we can build on what every group brings then we'll actually see progress.. rather than starting again from the beginning
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September 08, 2014, 12:50:54 AM
 #8

CA and Bittrex are responsible for several scams, they work together to pump coins. Bittrex even paid-off CA 1btc

We can nip it in the bud by dealing with the issue of the "producers" of these clones. having the community adopt a anti-clone character either through my suggestion or other would have quite a drastic decrease in the clonescamshitcoins.
Spoetnik
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September 08, 2014, 06:38:55 AM
 #9

CA and Bittrex are responsible for several scams, they work together to pump coins. Bittrex even paid-off CA 1btc

We can nip it in the bud by dealing with the issue of the "producers" of these clones. having the community adopt a anti-clone character either through my suggestion or other would have quite a drastic decrease in the clonescamshitcoins.


FUD first & ask questions later™
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