Monero Economy Workgroup - The MEW Thread

[rpietila]

He either spent the funds in which case as far as I am concerned he is a thief or he did not and everything is cool.

This is the determination that we have to make as soon as possible, hand waving about taking funds from CK will not cut it.

1. There was no explicit rule to keep the funds allocated, which means that David (only) needs to have enough funds to make good of 100% at all times. He does.

2. Since you have a grievance against a MEW Executive, please PM him and copy it here so that both he and we know exactly what the problem is.

3. Until there is any evidence to support the contrary, I as the double role of MEW-OE and CK-King decide that the rightful way to proceed is to freeze the required amount in his CK funds and use it to make good of the MEW Treasury fund.

[wpalczynski]

He either spent the funds in which case as far as I am concerned he is a thief or he did not and everything is cool.

This is the determination that we have to make as soon as possible, hand waving about taking funds from CK will not cut it.

1. There was no explicit rule to keep the funds allocated, which means that David (only) needs to have enough funds to make good of 100% at all times. He does.

2. Since you have a grievance against a MEW Executive, please PM him and copy it here so that both he and we know exactly what the problem is.

3. Until there is any evidence to support the contrary, I as the double role of MEW-OE and CK-King decide that the rightful way to proceed is to freeze the required amount in his CK funds and use it to make good of the MEW Treasury fund.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "Until there is any evidence to support the contrary"?

[dEBRUYNE]

In my opinion, it is unnecesarry to heat up the debate like this until David Latapie has come online and posted/clarified here. Until then, everyone that is merely making wild assumptions, which may or may not be valid, is deteriorating the quality of this thread and the outside image of it. 

[saddambitcoin]

100 votes

Agreed with dEBRUYNE, let's continue resolving the dissolution of the MEW in an efficient manner. It is a waste of everyone's time to argue.

Let's not forget David has done much good work for Monero education.

With or without David's input, we can all resolve the situation NOW and get back to doing things that benefit Monero development, adoption, and economy. 

[wpalczynski]

100 votes

Agreed with dEBRUYNE, let's continue resolving the dissolution of the MEW in an efficient manner. It is a waste of everyone's time to argue.

Let's not forget David has done much good work for Monero education.

With or without David's input, we can all resolve the situation NOW and get back to doing things that benefit Monero development, adoption, and economy. 

So you are ok with never determining if he in fact spent the money or not?  You want to pull the funds from CK and sweep it under the rug?

[ArticMine]

ArticMine 1000 votes.

My thoughts on this is that we should start with the premise that David has done nothing wrong and has the required amount of XMR on hand. Whether the XMR were segregated is not the critical issue since there was no explicit requirement for this; having said this it is simply bad practice to not segregate the funds. It is also appropriate for the remaining MEW executives to ascertain as to the status of these funds and require proof that these funds exist. These actions are simply prudent management and should not be construed as evidence or suspicion of wrongdoing. If there is no response or an inappropriate response to above requests then it does become at least suspicion if not evidence of wrongdoing, it also becomes appropriate to take action and the MEW members deserve to be made aware of the situation.

Edit: Has David been officially contacted about this?

[wpalczynski]

ArticMine 1000 votes.

My thoughts on this is that we should start with the premise that David has done nothing wrong and has the required amount of XMR on hand. Whether the XMR were segregated is not the critical issue since there was no explicit requirement for this; having said this it is simply bad practice to not segregate the funds. It is also appropriate for the remaining MEW executives to ascertain as to the status of these funds and require proof that these funds exist. These actions are simply prudent management and should not be construed as evidence or suspicion of wrongdoing. If there is no response or an inappropriate response to above requests then it does become at least suspicion if not evidence of wrongdoing, it also becomes appropriate to take action and the MEW members deserve to be made aware of the situation.

Edit: Has David been officially contacted about this?

People have been asking about the funds in this, the official MEW thread going back as far as 3 moths ago, which in my mind constitutes being officially contacted.  No response has been provided.  In addition I have reason to believe other MEW members have contacted him privately.

[dnaleor]

ArticMine 1000 votes.

Proposal for the orderly dissolution of the MEW.

That the MEW be dissolved and the corresponding funds be refunded to each member as follows: Members shall have 15 days from the date of the end of voting to provide:
1) An XMR address and transaction ID for refund.
or
2) The name of a Crypto Kingdom character account to be credited with the funds.

Any remaining unclaimed funds after the 15 day period has elapsed shall be credited as follows:
Crypto Kingdom account MoneroHouse 50%
Crypto Kingdom account Town 50%

This proposal allows each member to identify how their portion of the funds will be allocated and provides a balanced approach for disposition of the unclaimed funds. For those unfamiliar with Crypto Kingdom, the MoneroHouse account is used to support Monero development.

Edit: Those wishing that their portion of the funds go to Monero development could choose 1 and provide the Monero donation address.

Code:

46BeWrHpwXmHDpDEUmZBWZfoQpdc6HaERCNmx1pEYL2rAcuwufPN9rXHHtyUA4QVy66qeFQkn6sfK8aHYjA3jk3o1Bv16em

https://getmonero.org/getting-started/donate/. Those wishing to donate to Crypto Kingdom can choose 2 and specify "Town" as the Crypto Kingdom character account. This will minimize administration time and transaction fees

50 votes

I withdraw my earlier proposal and will support this compromise.

[dnaleor]

[...] allows the distribution of funds even in the event that David continues to be busy, in which case his CK assets are just administratively swapped to MEW and he can keep the equivalent amount in the MEW treasury account (in XMR blockchain).

I'm not in MEW but I'm playing CK, pardon me if I'm not supposed to intervene here but I'd like to make some remarks.

David assets in CK are mostly not in Moneretos (matched by real XMR) right? I see two mechanisms to transfer value to MEW holders within CK from David CK assets:
- Assets are sold, moneretos backed by real XMR are transfered to MEW players.
I find it unfair to CK economy as a whole, this will trigger largish sells and influence the economy even though those events taking place have nothing to do with CK economy.

- Assets (various game items) are transfered directly to MEW players
Not really my business, but I find it unfair to them as they get a refund in a very different form as the initial payment, which admittedly involves a greater risk and volatility (that of XMR plus that of CK items backed by internal free-market only, not by real XMR).

In general I must say I find it really ridiculous that after more than a year of funds not moving, the escrow isn't available to do it in a timely manner and you MEW members are therefore rushing with a weird work-around solution... Ok, that's none of my business anyway.

50 votes

I'm in both (well, dnaleor is dead in CK, but is son will soon be active) and I agree with this.
We shouldn't mix CK balances with the MEW fund. I want to be paid directly from the MEW fund.

[David Latapie]

Hello,

Only one person having access to the funds has one advantage: better control
And one disadvantage: greater risk of loss
Multisignature would fix this but doesn't exist for Monero, so there's that.

I have access to the party funds and the MEW funds. I'm happy with whatever is decided about them. I replied to dnaleor in a PM. Because the last time I publicly expressed what happened, it was used against Monero, I will only reply to PM about the current state of things and only to people I know are not anti-monero trolls.

[nioc]

[...] allows the distribution of funds even in the event that David continues to be busy, in which case his CK assets are just administratively swapped to MEW and he can keep the equivalent amount in the MEW treasury account (in XMR blockchain).

I'm not in MEW but I'm playing CK, pardon me if I'm not supposed to intervene here but I'd like to make some remarks.

David assets in CK are mostly not in Moneretos (matched by real XMR) right? I see two mechanisms to transfer value to MEW holders within CK from David CK assets:
- Assets are sold, moneretos backed by real XMR are transfered to MEW players.
I find it unfair to CK economy as a whole, this will trigger largish sells and influence the economy even though those events taking place have nothing to do with CK economy.

- Assets (various game items) are transfered directly to MEW players
Not really my business, but I find it unfair to them as they get a refund in a very different form as the initial payment, which admittedly involves a greater risk and volatility (that of XMR plus that of CK items backed by internal free-market only, not by real XMR).

In general I must say I find it really ridiculous that after more than a year of funds not moving, the escrow isn't available to do it in a timely manner and you MEW members are therefore rushing with a weird work-around solution... Ok, that's none of my business anyway.

50 votes

I'm in both (well, dnaleor is dead in CK, but is son will soon be active) and I agree with this.
We shouldn't mix CK balances with the MEW fund. I want to be paid directly from the MEW fund.

Thank you David.

10 votes 

We shouldn't mix CK balances with the MEW fund. I want to be paid directly from the MEW fund.

[David Latapie]

Thank you David.

10 votes  

We shouldn't mix CK balances with the MEW fund. I want to be paid directly from the MEW fund.

For everyone:

Contact me privately for every details.

As an example of the message I will send:

Please confirm:
You have 10 votes, you paid 10 XMR and for renewal you paid one-tenth, which is 1 XMR. Total is 11 XMR. Since half went to dev and are non refundable, this means I will send you back 5.5 XMR (modulo transaction fees). Please state privately your XMR address.

I case you ask, I have my own ledger of who paid how much.

[luigi1111]

ArticMine 1000 votes.

Proposal for the orderly dissolution of the MEW.

That the MEW be dissolved and the corresponding funds be refunded to each member as follows: Members shall have 15 days from the date of the end of voting to provide:
1) An XMR address and transaction ID for refund.
or
2) The name of a Crypto Kingdom character account to be credited with the funds.

Any remaining unclaimed funds after the 15 day period has elapsed shall be credited as follows:
Crypto Kingdom account MoneroHouse 50%
Crypto Kingdom account Town 50%

This proposal allows each member to identify how their portion of the funds will be allocated and provides a balanced approach for disposition of the unclaimed funds. For those unfamiliar with Crypto Kingdom, the MoneroHouse account is used to support Monero development.

Edit: Those wishing that their portion of the funds go to Monero development could choose 1 and provide the Monero donation address.

Code:

46BeWrHpwXmHDpDEUmZBWZfoQpdc6HaERCNmx1pEYL2rAcuwufPN9rXHHtyUA4QVy66qeFQkn6sfK8aHYjA3jk3o1Bv16em

https://getmonero.org/getting-started/donate/. Those wishing to donate to Crypto Kingdom can choose 2 and specify "Town" as the Crypto Kingdom character account. This will minimize administration time and transaction fees

100 votes.

I support this. I'd like my portion to be given to my CK character.

[ArticMine]

...
For everyone:

Contact me privately for every details.

As an example of the message I will send:

Please confirm:
You have 10 votes, you paid 10 XMR and for renewal you paid one-tenth, which is 1 XMR. Total is 11 XMR. Since half went to dev and are non refundable, this means I will send you back 5.5 XMR (modulo transaction fees). Please state privately your XMR address.

I case you ask, I have my own ledger of who paid how much.

Thanks David.

[wpalczynski]

Thank you David.

10 votes  

We shouldn't mix CK balances with the MEW fund. I want to be paid directly from the MEW fund.

For everyone:

Contact me privately for every details.

As an example of the message I will send:

Please confirm:
You have 10 votes, you paid 10 XMR and for renewal you paid one-tenth, which is 1 XMR. Total is 11 XMR. Since half went to dev and are non refundable, this means I will send you back 5.5 XMR (modulo transaction fees). Please state privately your XMR address.

I case you ask, I have my own ledger of who paid how much.

Great.  In that case I propose that all the MEW funds are sent to Dnaleor immediately, MEW as well as the party funds.  If anyone objects to Dnaleor holding them until we decide what to do with them please speak up in this thread.

Dnaleor please post a XMR address so the funds can be transferred to you ASAP unless anyone objects.
 

[smooth]

I somewhat object, as it was stated.

David, if I recall correctly, had (and has) some sort of named position with MEW as a Treasurer or the like.

If the funds are to be transferred, then it should be to someone holding such a position, or perhaps someone delegated by someone holding such a position.

I instead support returning the funds to the members as ArticMine suggested earlier. There has been no effort toward collecting renewals (nor has anyone stated support for doing so) and unless that happens by January 31 then MEW will disband.

I will be sending David a PM asking for my funds to be returned.

[dnaleor]

Thank you David.

10 votes  

We shouldn't mix CK balances with the MEW fund. I want to be paid directly from the MEW fund.

For everyone:

Contact me privately for every details.

As an example of the message I will send:

Please confirm:
You have 10 votes, you paid 10 XMR and for renewal you paid one-tenth, which is 1 XMR. Total is 11 XMR. Since half went to dev and are non refundable, this means I will send you back 5.5 XMR (modulo transaction fees). Please state privately your XMR address.

I case you ask, I have my own ledger of who paid how much.

Great.  In that case I propose that all the MEW funds are sent to Dnaleor immediately, MEW as well as the party funds.  If anyone objects to Dnaleor holding them until we decide what to do with them please speak up in this thread.

Dnaleor please post a XMR address so the funds can be transferred to you ASAP unless anyone objects.
 

I rather see the MEW funds in the hands of Fluffy (or someone else from core)
because I don't want to be trusted with larger amounts of XMR until we have trezor integration.

The party fund is rather small so I'm willing to handle that.

[saddambitcoin]

I am also going to withdraw my funds.

[rpietila]

VOTE on the DISSOLUTION of the MEW

As the Operational Executive, I call the vote: "What to do with the MEW and its funds" to the discussion round. Rules state that the discussion takes 168 hours, and during this time members may make proposals and support them.

To move on reasonably, the proposal should include if the MEW is terminated or not, and what to do with the funds. The most supported proposals go to final vote.

The discussion will be held in this thread until pressing matters otherwise dictate. It is likely that after such a long delay, this forum is able to reach larger audience.

As the OE, I call the discussion round ended. As per the rules, two proposals are put on vote. Because this is a spending proposal, there is no absolute majority rule that would shorten the voting period unless all the members have voted. Because the dissolution proposal outcome differs markedly from the non-dissolution proposal, these are put against each other. The voting is structured so that only the first proposal causes a new MEW Resolution to pass. Therefore there is effectively one proposal, with NO meaning support to the non-dissolution "proposal".

The proposal is as follows:

That the MEW be dissolved and the corresponding funds be refunded to each member as follows: Members shall have 15 days from the date of the end of voting to provide:
1) An XMR address and transaction ID for refund.
or
2) The name of a Crypto Kingdom character account to be credited with the funds.

Those wishing that their portion of the funds go to Monero development could choose 1 and provide the Monero donation address.

Code:

46BeWrHpwXmHDpDEUmZBWZfoQpdc6HaERCNmx1pEYL2rAcuwufPN9rXHHtyUA4QVy66qeFQkn6sfK8aHYjA3jk3o1Bv16em

https://getmonero.org/getting-started/donate/. Those wishing to donate to Crypto Kingdom can choose 2 and specify "Town" as the Crypto Kingdom character account. This will minimize administration time and transaction fees as the bulk of the transfers can be grouped together.
[/i]
Any remaining unclaimed funds after the 15 day period has elapsed shall be credited as follows:
Crypto Kingdom account MoneroHouse 50%
Crypto Kingdom account Town 50%

This proposal allows each member to identify how their portion of the funds will be allocated and provides a balanced approach for disposition of the unclaimed funds. For those unfamiliar with Crypto Kingdom, the MoneroHouse account is used to support Monero development.

The voters have 4 options:

HELL YES - Support the proposal, on the condition that if it does not pass, the member resigns and is refunded.
YES - Support the proposal
NO - Does not support the proposal
HELL NO - Does not support the proposal, on the condition that if it passes, the member resigns and is refunded.

The ME David Latapie is exhorted to produce the members and votes list without delay. Due to the privacy inherent in Monero, the addresses may be posted here publicly, or to user: David Latapie in PM.

The voting period commences immediately and lasts for 168 hours. Any unmaterial changes to the proposal or practicalities do not cause the time to be changed.

[rpietila]

VOTE on the DISSOLUTION of the MEW

1000 votes.

I vote HELL YES and request the funds to be transferred to CK account "1" regardless of the vote outcome.