Forum finances

[theymos]

I finally got the forum's 2013 taxes finished (after an extension).

Here's the final accounting summary for 2011-2013. All values are USD at transaction time because this makes the numbers more easy to understand, though the forum only holds BTC.

Code:

Income
      Donations     Ads
2011       3081    1545
2012      13291   21014
2013      42174  243233

Expenses
      Infrastructure  Development   Mods  Grants    Tax
2011             213            0      0       0    109
2012              11          276      0       0   3973
2013             194       185751  81027    2802  15841

Here are the totals for 2014 up to now. These numbers are in BTC.
- Income: 522
- Expenses: 1505 (1257 Slickage, the rest mostly mods)

Also, 250 BTC was probably lost when treasurer paraipan died, unfortunately. Recovering that BTC is maybe still possible, but it's probably unlikely.

The forum currently has about 5568 BTC in reserve.

[theymos]

BTW, if you are unfamiliar with how tax works with Bitcoin, you'll probably be really confused at how the forum experienced a net loss in 2013 but still paid a lot of tax. That happens because every expense "triggers" substantial capital gains, and therefore capital gains tax. The forum essentially pays a variable-rate tax on all expenses.

If you're interested: I used the LIFO method for calculating capital gains. My idea is to "save up" BTC batches until they become long-term, which has a lower tax rate. My understanding is that you can use any capital gains calculation method, though. (This is not tax advice -- consult a CPA.)

[Cøbra]

Has anything been done to make sure that in the event of another treasurer's death, their BTC also won't be lost?

[williamj2543]

Taxes and bitcoin, what is this sorcery

[williamj2543]

Has anything been done to make sure that in the event of another treasurer's death, their BTC also won't be lost?

multi sig wallet codes? Ones that start with 3? I think they require a certain amount of OKs from different users, allowing for one user to say no, or be dead

[Kluge]

Theymos, how do you handle paying non-US mods? From my weak understanding, it's a super-gray area to hire non-VISA/GC non-nationals to work remotely, even for contract work. Do you send US mods IRS income forms? Is it a MISC form??

(the forum gives out grants, now???)

(Paraipan died...? )

[spidergoat]

I don't understand about this bitcoin tax. The Forum is based on USA? If it is based outside USA do the Forum needs to pay taxes?

[dogie]

Am I right in thinking that there is always a substantial set of 'profits' that are always pending and not yet realised due to your approach? Ie if you were forced to immediately wind up the forum as a company, you'd be forced to declare another substantial chunk even without any further trading?

[Brewins]

Theymos, how do you handle paying non-US mods? From my weak understanding, it's a super-gray area to hire non-VISA/GC non-nationals to work remotely, even for contract work. Do you send US mods IRS income forms? Is it a MISC form??

(the forum gives out grants, now???)

(Paraipan died...? )

Mods are not hired employers. And they don't receive much. I think it is closer to a tip than a wage.

For legal purposes, I guess it is up to the mods deal with the taxes whatever way their jurisdiction requires.

[Kluge]

Theymos, how do you handle paying non-US mods? From my weak understanding, it's a super-gray area to hire non-VISA/GC non-nationals to work remotely, even for contract work. Do you send US mods IRS income forms? Is it a MISC form??

(the forum gives out grants, now???)

(Paraipan died...? )

Mods are not hired employers. And they don't receive much. I think it is closer to a tip than a wage.

For legal purposes, I guess it is up to the mods deal with the taxes whatever way their jurisdiction requires.

In US, company is required to send tax forms confirming earnings, even for contractors. AFAIK, companies can't give "tips" - they have to be set in contracts (no clue on ad hoc bonuses). I shouldn't have used "hired"... "contracted." US foreign labor laws are really goofy when I checked... was trying to see if LTB transcription project could properly report taxes with contract workers and whether or not it was even legal to hire them -- informal conversation with immigration lawyer suggested laws on contracting out to non-US citizens without green card could be interpreted either as legal or illegal.

[hilariousandco]

Were no donations at all received this year or is that just nobody donated enough to become a VIP/Donator?

Has anything been done to make sure that in the event of another treasurer's death, their BTC also won't be lost?

multi sig wallet codes? Ones that start with 3? I think they require a certain amount of OKs from different users, allowing for one user to say no, or be dead

That would be the best way to go if he wanted others to hold onto these amounts of money.

[DiamondCardz]

Also, 250 BTC was probably lost when treasurer paraipan died, unfortunately. Recovering that BTC is maybe still possible, but it's probably unlikely.

It's a touchy topic but I think this should be taken a bit more seriously...250 BTC is a lot of money. Some thought should go into figuring out ways to try and recover it, e.g. contacting people who may be able to offer any help.

[dankkk]

We're no donations at all received this year or is that just nobody donated enough to become a VIP/Donator.

2013 donations were ~42k USD and 2014 figures have not been disclosed.

Looking at the official donation address of 17RTTUAiiPqUTKtEggJPec8RxLMi2n9EZ9 (per https://bitcointalk.org/donate.html) it looks like ~$1,100 has been donated so far this year. This is taking the fiat value of the bitcoin deposited to the address while only counting amounts under $1,000 (the larger amounts are likely from ad revenue) and calculating round numbers in my head.

@theymos - are you still considering to offer accounts to have some kind of "donator" status for lessor bitcoin donation amounts (regardless if the title given will be "donator" or something else)?

[dogie]

@theymos - are you still considering to offer accounts to have some kind of "donator" status for lessor bitcoin donation amounts (regardless if the title given will be "donator" or something else)?

It was discussed in another thread. Atm no, maybe in the future he will do something that will preserve the status of the original VIPs but will provide functionality along those lines.

[dankkk]

@theymos - are you still considering to offer accounts to have some kind of "donator" status for lessor bitcoin donation amounts (regardless if the title given will be "donator" or something else)?

It was discussed in another thread. Atm no, maybe in the future he will do something that will preserve the status of the original VIPs but will provide functionality along those lines.

I have seen quotes from theymos going both ways on this, but I am not sure what is the more recent/accurate.

What I am the most interested in is being able to access the sections reserved for donators and being able to change my username/custom title

[jackjack]

@theymos - are you still considering to offer accounts to have some kind of "donator" status for lessor bitcoin donation amounts (regardless if the title given will be "donator" or something else)?

It was discussed in another thread. Atm no, maybe in the future he will do something that will preserve the status of the original VIPs but will provide functionality along those lines.

I have seen quotes from theymos going both ways on this, but I am not sure what is the more recent/accurate.

What I am the most interested in is being able to access the sections reserved for donators and being able to change my username/custom title

Donators say their section is dead

[dankkk]

@theymos - are you still considering to offer accounts to have some kind of "donator" status for lessor bitcoin donation amounts (regardless if the title given will be "donator" or something else)?

It was discussed in another thread. Atm no, maybe in the future he will do something that will preserve the status of the original VIPs but will provide functionality along those lines.

I have seen quotes from theymos going both ways on this, but I am not sure what is the more recent/accurate.

What I am the most interested in is being able to access the sections reserved for donators and being able to change my username/custom title

Donators say their section is dead

I have head that also, but I would think there would be some interesting things discussed from years ago. Also there may be interesting discussions during times of crisis.

[kcud_dab]

Donators say their section is dead

I can confirm... since September 1st
 - 2 new topics without any reply
 - 1 new topic with 2 replies
 - 1 new reply in an old topic..

Total for Donator section :

1130 Posts
105 Topics

[dankkk]

Donators say their section is dead

I can confirm... since September 1st
 - 2 new topics without any reply
 - 1 new topic with 2 replies
 - 1 new reply in an old topic..

Total for Donator section :

1130 Posts
105 Topics

Maybe it would not be as dead if more people had access to it. I have heard there are only ~30 VIP accounts and I counted there being 111 donator accounts.

[williamj2543]

What the heck do you talk about in the donator topic anyways, how peasant the non-donators are?