Apple pay will make bitcoin (even more) useless. Let's deal with it.

[FinalHash]

OP you smokin crack again?

[niothor]

with PayPal and Google wallet you can send money to everyone in the world without permission already.

Paypal , google wallet , webmoney are services
Bitcoin is a currency.

Paypal can use bitcoins , google wallet can use bitcoins.

It's not applepay or paypal vs bitcoin is fiat money vs bitcoin.

[desired_username]

with PayPal and Google wallet you can send money to everyone in the world without permission already.

All those payment methods are awfully limited (and expensive) compared to bitcoin, not to mention that you have no control over your funds.

Apple pay might bring some features which are "clever" but as usual it's way overhyped. I also don't think that it's direct competition for crypto currencies.

Sorry if I just fed a troll, I don't follow this forum closely.

[zorke]

Why would people use bitcoin? to try a new thing? to feel active brave against evil banks? to feel heroes? seriously.

to give money to beggars on the internet:

hi guys, I am 26 an Italian. I am into bitcoin since more than one year ago. I did some small profit at first. I graduated as lawyer one year ago too but cannot find a job as lawyer. Here if you don't have family or friends in that area it is very difficult to make on your own a legal career. So I have found a part time job but I hardly can survive. Especially since my daughter was born. I pay the rent of the room/house where I live, I pay bills, food to survive and have nothing more. italian wages for low rank jobs like mine are very low. I have a daughter since 1 year and half ago and that increased a lot my expenses. I have to ask money to my parents but they cannot always help me. My dad is ill and cannot work a lot. My girlfriend who is the mother of my daughter left me with the baby. She continued studying and she has a new boyfriend. Yes, I invested in btc in several steps and the last time in December 2013. Then again in January because I thought it was going to raise. I did not have much, only 9 and something btc, but they were the savings of years. Investing  in btc I knew it was risky but I was trying to change life, since I had done it in April and October gaining something, I thought to do it again.
I don't want to beg money but if you believe my story and want to help me, if you maybe have a lot for yourself already, you can contact me, we can chat on skype, I have a Webcam in my laptop so you can see where I live with your eyes and you can see my beautiful little girl too, she is lovable. If you have even 0,01 btc or less you want  to send me, I will be thankful, and my daughter too. I don't like to complain, but some days I keep myself rather hungry to give my daughter everything she needs. And she needs a lot. My part time job gives me only 600 euro and I have to pay everything with that. If you don't believe me or belive but don't want to help me, there is no problem. I will do it alone as I have always done. Thanks all and greetings.

what is wrong in telling your own story? people are free to make their choice. I am not a beggar. Even if I was one, I do t see why being a beggar is a so bad thing. They are unlucky people who need help. Only that

The thing is that you are not "telling your own story" you are asking for money. The fact that you ask for "even .01" overrides everything else in your post. If you wanted to tell your story then you should say that others should learn from your mistakes or others should learn from your experience.

Not only that but the logic in your OP is deeply flawed.

[Rannasha]

with PayPal and Google wallet you can send money to everyone in the world without permission already.

Of course you need permission. If PayPal, Google or whoever provides the service doesn't like you or the person you're sending to, then tough luck. Case in point: Visa/Mastercard blocking donations to Wikileaks. Or PayPal shutting down accounts of merchants based on their seemingly arbitrary rules.

Buy seriously, when does it actually happen that you need to pay someone from the other part of the world?  When t does thka happen in the life of. common citizen? Common citizen spends most life in his country, buying in  shops inside his country, not buying from abroad. Unless you buy on eBay on some limited case. But even there you usually pay the merchant as if it was in your country and problem solved.

It happens more and more. Most of the stuff we use is made in China, so more and more people are buying things directly from the source (through websites such as DealExtreme). Cross-Atlantic purchases (EU to US or vice versa) are also quite common, especially for specialty products. Then there are tons of immigrant workers from third world countries all over the world that send part of their income back to their family in the country of origin. Companies like Western Union make a fortune of these people that make up the poorest part of civilization.

Just because you may not use cross-border transactions much, doesn't mean that there's not a huge number of people that do.

Then, inflation. Inflation is not a negative thing. Inflation tells a lot of the economy of a nation at a certain moment.  small inflation is healthy usually. High inflation or deflation are negative. If for example you have 0,4% inflation a year, you would need 20 years keeping your money immobile to see them losing only 8% of their value. Bitcoin can lose 20% of its value in one day. Which one would you chose?

You're confusing inflation with exchange rate fluctuations. The two are completely different and have different economical implications. Please read up on the basics. In addition, the theory that a small amount of inflation is healthy is only valid in the current debt-centric monetary system.

[DannyHamilton]

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plonk!

[Robert Paulson]

with PayPal and Google wallet you can send money to everyone in the world without permission already.

paypal and google can decide to freeze your account along with all the money in it, now what do you do?

Then, inflation. Inflation is not a negative thing. Inflation tells a lot of the economy of a nation at a certain moment.  small inflation is healthy usually. High inflation or deflation are negative. If for example you have 0,4% inflation a year, you would need 20 years keeping your money immobile to see them losing only 8% of their value. Bitcoin can lose 20% of its value in one day. Which one would you chose?

inflation is not a negative thing? do you like paying more for products?

You cannot have a single money for different economies. That has already been done for Europe with euros and is creating many problems.

the world was using a single money called gold for the last 5000 years, the paper money we currently have is a fraud that will end any year now.

the reason a single paper currency doesn't work in Europe is the same reason it doesn't work anywhere else,
you have a central authority that prints money and invests it how it sees fit, that's called central planning and it fails because the central authority doesn't have the information to know what (and how much) products people need and want.

this causes a misallocation of production resources so that not enough of the things people want get produced and instead a bunch of useless stuff the central planners thought are good for the economy get produced.

the only way to fix this is by having honest unprintable money such as gold and bitcoin which prevents the government and central bank of misallocating production resources (at least by money printing).

[Impros88]

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plonk!

what makes someone a troll? your own arbitrary idea? OK, you are actually a troll on my opinion.  This thing of "troll" is getting a bit to far. I see many people saying their opinion being labelled as Trolls for that.

[seriouscoin]

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plonk!

what makes someone a troll? your own arbitrary idea? OK, you are actually a troll on my opinion.  This thing of "troll" is getting a bit to far. I see many people saying their opinion being labelled as Trolls for that.

1NYaDvKUpp6sqL3AopoyU96Q87Y6qhqcvi  thanks a lot

[BombaUcigasa]

what makes someone a troll? your own arbitrary idea? OK, you are actually a troll on my opinion.  This thing of "troll" is getting a bit to far. I see many people saying their opinion being labelled as Trolls for that.

Your post shows either a highly ignorant or a very deceitful content. It's either "you're stupid" or "you're evil". People don't assume that people of this stupidity would post on this highly technical forum, so they accuse you of being evil on purpose: trolling.

I will NEVER use Apple Pay. By principle and choice. NOBODY in my country will use Apple Pay. By technical and legal limitation, it's IMPOSSIBLE. To use Apple Pay, you need to be a privileged white hipster living in the USA, mainly. Everyone that's not casually rich or living there, can't use Apple Pay and will use other means. I can "use" Google Wallet, in the sense that I can shop on Google owned sites, but not as everyone else in the USA can.

Remember this, the population of eligible people is only 4% (USA versus world http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_world) and the probable number of actual users of this technology by next year (iPhone 6 estimates in the USA that can use this technology) is less than 0.03% of the world population.

Now you will understand that everyone else can and will use Bitcoin and your post is ignorant. If you continue to insist that Apple Pay (with 0.03% reach) will take over Bitcoin all over the world, you are a troll.

[LiteCoinGuy]

"i told you"

  


when you have some time, start here and learn more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0oDDIy0P2s

[TrailingComet]

Apple and Oranges (bitcoin) comparison
PayPal with NFC as o,eBay in this thread called it is a great descriptin

[acoindr]

with PayPal and Google wallet you can send money to everyone in the world without permission already.

Oh really? Try sending 1 billion dollars across the globe with PayPal and see how far you get, even 1 million, or heck try 25K. Ever since the scary terrists popped up the main banking system (the US) has made reporting transfers over 10K (even sometimes 1K) mandatory and possibly suspicious - unless of course you're a bank aiding terrorists and drug cartels.

Second there are billions of people in the world with no access to any banking services. With PayPal once you send the money the recipient still can't spend it, until they find a way to convert a PayPal balance into their local currency, usually virtually impossible. With Bitcoin all someone needs is a free Bitcoin wallet. There are people all over the world willing to trade bitcoins for local currencies, and growing all the time - as well as shops that accept bitcoins themselves as payment.

Buy seriously, when does it actually happen that you need to pay someone from the other part of the world?  

Bitcoin wan't built for Impros88 and the way only you use money; it was built for everyone in the world, and people all have different needs. People sending money from one country home to another country, called remittances, is extremely popular. It's a half-trillion dollar industry. Next, perhaps a reason people today don't often send money to people around the world is because it was impossible before. People didn't usually make cross-country trips or go over 70 MPH before cars were invented either. Does that mean cars were not a good idea since nobody used them in the 1700s?

Then, inflation. Inflation is not a negative thing.

I'm not even going to respond to this - there are plenty other discussions here and elsewhere on that - except to say you're arguing higher prices at the grocery store etc. is not seen as negative by ordinary people.

Bitcoin's volatility is decreasing the longer it exists, but even so anyone who has dollar cost averaged into Bitcoin since 2010 has probably experienced increased, not decreased purchasing power overall (since Bitcoin is mostly up) .

[BittBurger]

Apple pay will provide a more seamless way for Bitcoin to be used in the near future.  Getting the consumer public away from *the mentality of using* tangible payment tools was a huge obstacle that Bitcoin no longer needs to surmount.

-B-

[EFFV]

Okay, so my knowledge on Apple pay is not extensive. However, it is not comparable to Bitcoin on many levels. First, Bitcoin is a currency. Applepay is not a currency. Your money will still be subjected to the value and weaknesses of USD. Applepay does not have properties that will allow you to send money across the globe without consideration of nation states. (Gold does not have these properties either) Applepay is centralized and closed source. Payments can be undone.

From what I understand Applepay is paypal with NFC. Not anything like Bitcoin.

not true. not true. Main companies apple has made agreements with are all over the world. Mastercard, Visa and such are all over the world. Basically almost every merchant with a PoS can accept it.

Bitcoin is quite the same in this regard, aside from the fact that merchants need even less infrastructure to accept Bitcoin and crypto.  Over time you will see more and more merchants accept Bitcoin because there is such a small barrier to entry for merchants in this market. The infrastructure and human time it takes to keep credit card and payment companies afloat will eventually be their downfall. (aka overhead)

Yes, apple pay is not a currency and will use local currency. That makes this strong. People are using fiat currency right now, fiat currency, even if there is inflation, quite small really, are strong. Why? because they are accepted as paying sistem in all territory  of the nation by everyone. so purple can trust fiat currency. And they can trust the payments system which is controlled by banks.

Are you so willfully ignorant that you think people trust banks?  Read this survey: http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20130118005809/en/Americans-Don%E2%80%99t-Trust-Banks-Surveys-Find

A high percentage of younger generations are also moving away from high overhead banking/fiat systems. (aka the unbanked) Currently the baby boomers mainly keep the old system afloat. Wait 20 years.

 

They cannot make errors, see their money lost or stolen as with bitcoin Exactely for that reason, because there is a society responsible for their money.

You mean to say government steals my money to pay for the ignorant.

 

Bank has a debt with customer. With btc you are always risky. You never feel safe. If you pay something and you don't get the service, money is lost anyway.

Last time I checked this applied to fiat too. (unless you go through a merchant like paypal) Bitcoin will have insurance merchants one day too.

If a thkef steals your money, it is lost.

SAME

 

If you have an address on your pc and your pc breaks, money is lost.

This is extremely easy to prevent, Bitcoin payment processors will prevent this from happening as well.
 

If there is a bubble and bitcoin loses value, money is lost. While when happened thay a fiat currency lost 50% of his value in one week? when in history?

The heavy volatility is only the process of Bitcoin moving from a commodity/collectable to a currency. Fiats go bust alot more than you think... http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2011/08/average-life-expectancy-for-fiat.
http://dailyreckoning.com/fiat-currency/

I am not saying that banks are good. They make profit, to much profit for my opinion for their real service. But the system is working right now. Hundred Billions dollars or euros move each hour everywhere and everything works. Yes, with some fees and a small inflation set by General reserve or what it is. But it works.

Because it works now does not mean it will work tomorrow, crime does pay!

With future payments made by nfc everyone will be able to pay with his bank account directly without carrying cash. Why would people use bitcoin? to try a new thing? to feel active brave against evil banks? to feel heroes? seriously.

Many crypto currency apps already use nfc, I just heard recently of an ATM that will accept payments through nfc.

You can only offend me. You don't understand how stupid is when an adult offends another adult man in the Internet. I find this quite silly and shameful. Anyway if you feel better, offend me. I think every word I have written.

I have not said anything that should offend you, maybe your mental contradictions are working on you emotionally?

And yes I invested in btc. I believed in the idea at first and wanted to make profit too obviously as you all. I invested in a risky thing aware of it and lost. I could gain profit, big profit, it did not happen. This does not make me stupid. Only stupid people can think that losing money happens only to stupid.

Its too hard to read this.

[Impros88]

what makes someone a troll? your own arbitrary idea? OK, you are actually a troll on my opinion.  This thing of "troll" is getting a bit to far. I see many people saying their opinion being labelled as Trolls for that.

Your post shows either a highly ignorant or a very deceitful content. It's either "you're stupid" or "you're evil". People don't assume that people of this stupidity would post on this highly technical forum, so they accuse you of being evil on purpose: trolling.

I will NEVER use Apple Pay. By principle and choice. NOBODY in my country will use Apple Pay. By technical and legal limitation, it's IMPOSSIBLE. To use Apple Pay, you need to be a privileged white hipster living in the USA, mainly. Everyone that's not casually rich or living there, can't use Apple Pay and will use other means. I can "use" Google Wallet, in the sense that I can shop on Google owned sites, but not as everyone else in the USA can.

Remember this, the population of eligible people is only 4% (USA versus world http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_world) and the probable number of actual users of this technology by next year (iPhone 6 estimates in the USA that can use this technology) is less than 0.03% of the world population.

Now you will understand that everyone else can and will use Bitcoin and your post is ignorant. If you continue to insist that Apple Pay (with 0.03% reach) will take over Bitcoin all over the world, you are a troll.

ai was obviously talking of next years when new generation smartphone will have nfc, apple pay or Google wallets, more and more people will have nfc in their smartphones, and first of all, nfc payments won't be limited to USA only.
I am not talking of present day situation but close future very predictable. It was so obvious only a stupid  or a troll could not...

[toknormal]

It's not a question of "payment systems", it's a question of currency integrity.

Applepay is just another way of paying by fiat - an unlimited instamine scam coin that the Fed can't stop mining at ultra low difficulty in order to hose down the US Treasury Bond interest rate so the country doesn't go bust in 10 seconds. It also requires expensive, slow and antiquated counterparties - not only to process the payment but to actually hold the balance in the first place.

Bitcoin, on the other hand, is a limited supply, rapid transit, counterparty-free electronic commodity that is about a million times more suited to trading on networks than fiat is - whatever gimmicks Apple come up with to try to hide that fact.

[Impros88]

what makes someone a troll? your own arbitrary idea? OK, you are actually a troll on my opinion.  This thing of "troll" is getting a bit to far. I see many people saying their opinion being labelled as Trolls for that.

Your post shows either a highly ignorant or a very deceitful content. It's either "you're stupid" or "you're evil". People don't assume that people of this stupidity would post on this highly technical forum, so they accuse you of being evil on purpose: trolling.

I will NEVER use Apple Pay. By principle and choice. NOBODY in my country will use Apple Pay. By technical and legal limitation, it's IMPOSSIBLE. To use Apple Pay, you need to be a privileged white hipster living in the USA, mainly. Everyone that's not casually rich or living there, can't use Apple Pay and will use other means. I can "use" Google Wallet, in the sense that I can shop on Google owned sites, but not as everyone else in the USA can.

Remember this, the population of eligible people is only 4% (USA versus world http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_world) and the probable number of actual users of this technology by next year (iPhone 6 estimates in the USA that can use this technology) is less than 0.03% of the world population.

Now you will understand that everyone else can and will use Bitcoin and your post is ignorant. If you continue to insist that Apple Pay (with 0.03% reach) will take over Bitcoin all over the world, you are a troll.

ai was obviously talking of next years when new generation smartphone will have nfc, apple pay or Google wallets, more and more people will have nfc in their smartphones, and first of all, nfc payments won't be limited to USA only.
I am not talking of present day situation but close future very predictable. It was so obvious only a stupid  or a troll could not...

I would answer but to much to me to quote single sentences. Think freely man. We will See who was right in the near future...
Bitcoin can seem a good idea, a brave thing against the evil System (yes fuck the system, be a punk)  but de facto all past good ideas, the few applied, failed miserably. Think the biggest shame on this world, communism. A good idea, but failed. Society recovered and went back to what it was.

But seriously, do you think private citizens can defeat the governments? governments make laws. They can banish bitcoin in one day and make its use illegal. if we are still using btc is because we are a small bunch of nerds with to much free time in front of pc. When btc would be a problem and a threat for status quo, believe me, we would not even go close to that day. There would be a reaction much before.

You all live in a utopian world. I am here only because I wanted to make a fast profit, I am sincere.

[Impros88]

It's not a question of "payment systems", it's a question of currency integrity.

Applepay is just another way of paying by fiat - an unlimited instamine scam coin that the Fed can't stop mining at ultra low difficulty in order to hose down the US Treasury Bond interest rate so the country doesn't go bust in 10 seconds. It also requires expensive, slow and antiquated counterparties - not only to process the payment but to actually hold the balance in the first place.

Bitcoin, on the other hand, is a limited supply, rapid transit, counterparty-free electronic commodity that is about a million times more suited to trading on networks than fiat is - whatever gimmicks Apple come up with to try to hide that fact.

you take into account always USA and its financial problems. Well world is not USA. There are many nations where inflation is very low and here in Italy in 2014 inflation was less than 0. we are going through deflation due to crisis. I provided source in my other topic or you can Google it.
So stop talking about USA. Bitcoin is not in USA. Many people live outside USA and are not even aware of what Federal Reserve is. ok?
So if usa has actually big inflation, it is a problem only in USA. You cannot link this to bitcoin adoption.

[Nagle]

things are changing. Apple pay and nfc payments are ready to go

Google has had that for years, with Google Wallet, and it's not very popular. Some stores had the NFC readers for a while, but I've been seeing fewer of them lately.