Just-Dice reopening for business

[wasserman99]

Hello all -

Ever since JD shut down there has not been a reputable bitcoin related casino that accepts investor funds. Sure there is dice-ninja however they are very new and I would not trust them with my money. Sure there was dicebitco.in, however we all know how that ended up (very badly).

I think that dooglus should reopen just-dice for business, either by operating outside of Canada (they said the reason they shut down was because of Canadian rules on electronic currencies), or otherwise by figuring out a way to reopen JD without the risk of litigation to the sites operators.

There is also the issue of needing a place to gamble funds in a casino that users know is going to be fair. The vast majority of sites on here are not reputable enough for users to know for sure that the bets are fair. Sure many sites allow you to check your bets, however this process is generally too complicated for most users and even users who understand how to do this will likely not check all of their bets when they make a thousand (or more bets). Sure there is PD which is generally reputable enough however I personally would rather gamble at a site run by dooglus that distributes site profits to many investors then a site run by stunna that all profits go to him (or his private investors).

I am curious to know what the gambling communities opinion on wanting dooglus reopening Just dice is.

Full Disclosure: I am not able to speak on dooglus's behalf nor am I affiliated in any way with Just-Dice, nor can I speak on behalf of JD.

Hopefully if enough people voice positive opinion regarding just-dice then it would potentially get dooglus to want to reopen the site!

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[thriftshopping]

I would love to see JD reopen for business. Dooglus was a champion for fairness and the site was around for a very long time. It was sad to see it close down.

[chalidore]

I would like JD to reopen but with designed interface this time (designed by designer not programmer)

[robhimself]

I'm not sure if all of the recent bad stuff happening with dice sites is pushing Doog closer or further from wanting to bring back JD.

[wayshegoes]

Just gamble at pocketrocketscasino. They're around longer than JD and still in operation. Dice, blackjack and poker (NLHE, PLO, OFC)

[medUSA]

Yes, I would very much like JD to come back, there is no trusting dice sites any more, but I believe Dooglus don't want any business dealings with bitcoin any time soon, until Canadian laws give him a green light.

[espringe]

Yeah Dooglus, come operate from Mexico --  you don't need to worry much about the government here, and I can show you the best taco stands.

Sure there is dice-ninja however they are very new

They guys behind it have been around a lot longer than dice.ninja, at least personally I don't any insecurities about putting my money there.

[casinobitco]

https://PeerBet.org is on the oldest and most established Dice games around, and is backed by the public Company CBTC (CasinoBitco.in).

PeerBet 2.0, a complete overhaul and redesign, is about to launch this month.

Just calling this out as you mention there is no established Dice site that accepts investments.

[pawel7777]

Ever since JD shut down there has not been a reputable bitcoin related casino that accepts investor funds.

There's prcdice.eu started in 2013, they accept investments (BTC + DOGE).

Were you not aware of them, or do you think they're not reputable?


On the side note, I wish FortuneJack.com had the option to invest, very ambitious, young site. They've got 'Anybet' option where you can propose your own bets.

[Catman Dude]

Doog has said elsewhere that he does not anticipate re-opening Just-Dice as it would require him re-locating to a different country and he likes it just fine where he is at in Canada.  He said he does not miss running Just-Dice. 

Perhaps he could sell licenses to the Just-Dice software or sell it outright to another.  I don't know if that would impact any Canadian laws or not.  Just a thought.

[dooglus]

Doog has said elsewhere that he does not anticipate re-opening Just-Dice as it would require him re-locating to a different country and he likes it just fine where he is at in Canada.  He said he does not miss running Just-Dice. 

Perhaps he could sell licenses to the Just-Dice software or sell it outright to another.  I don't know if that would impact any Canadian laws or not.  Just a thought.

When I saw dicebitco.in running well, attracting a large bankroll, having good customer support, etc. I felt like there was no need for Just-Dice to exist. It looked like DB would fill the position.

Then they were caught cheating, and Mateo appeared and went on a streak that would be unlikely even for nakowa to achieve, all the investors left or got destroyed, and I'm left thinking maybe we do need Just-Dice back.

I don't need to run it, from a financial point of view, but I like the idea that there's somewhere trustworthy that people can rest their coins and have a reasonable expectation of making a profit. Maybe some of the existing places are trustworthy, but I don't know how to tell any more.

As for licensing the software, I think that's kind of missing the point. Anyone can develop equivalent or better software pretty easily. What people need is to be able to trust the site's operator not to run off with their coins, and not to play against them using the server seeds. That "trustability" is not something that can be licensed out.

So for the moment I'm invested (a little) in dice.ninja, and contemplating whether to take up one of the many offers I've received from people who seem happy to set up offshore companies that will run JD legally, while I have exclusive control of the server and the day-to-day running of operations. As of right now I'm happy not to have to worry about safeguarding investor funds, or when the next whale attack is coming - but I guess I'll get back into the game at some point.

[infested999]

As for licensing the software, I think that's kind of missing the point. Anyone can develop equivalent or better software pretty easily. What people need is to be able to trust the site's operator not to run off with their coins, and not to play against them using the server seeds. That "trustability" is not something that can be licensed out.

Which is an argument for open-sourcing the code. No sense is having two people write the same code twice.

Although it might give you problems if someone sees a Just-Dice replica and trusts another users with their coins, thinking that the JD software makes their coins safer.

[medUSA]

... contemplating whether to take up one of the many offers I've received from people who seem happy to set up offshore companies that will run JD legally, while I have exclusive control of the server and the day-to-day running of operations

...but I guess I'll get back into the game at some point.

I am happy to hear that you are at least considering to get back in the game. As you said, "Trust" is the primary concern, not the software. There are just no dice site one can trust nowadays, the bitcoin community does need JD (you) back.

[T04D]

Anything we can do to ease people's concerns please let us know. I realize we have some catching up to do with some of the investors and players who got burned over at dicebitco.in, and we're eager to start regaining your trust in online gaming.

[Miitch]

Which is an argument for open-sourcing the code. No sense is having two people write the same code twice.

It doesn't necessarily need to be open source, it could just be shared with a trusted group of coders for review. Then the code on the server could be hashed regularly and that hash compared to the hash of the code that had been reviewed. Any code changes would quickly be obvious to anyone who bothered to check.

Maybe what's really needed is some kind of trusted service/group who would devote time to reviewing/certifying the code behind these online casino operations...?

[Dabs]

and contemplating whether to take up one of the many offers I've received from people who seem happy to set up offshore companies that will run JD legally, while I have exclusive control of the server and the day-to-day running of operations. As of right now I'm happy not to have to worry about safeguarding investor funds, or when the next whale attack is coming - but I guess I'll get back into the game at some point.

dooglus, this is what I wanted to offer you (sort of)... I wanted to make some sort of legal entity based in my country where bitcoin is not illegal, and there are lots of bitcoin related businesses, and where you, as the exclusive controller and day-to-day operator would be completely isolated from any legal things about bitcoin or it's regulations. And where, if needed, my entity (or myself) would get whatever necessary gambling licenses would be required, or just find a way around them.

Recently, the Philippines has opened several real (brick and mortar) casinos (and hotels)... And I did some research and one can open online casinos based in one of many free port economic zones here.

Essentially, you'd be a consultant (not even an employee), so ... you'd have no connection whatsoever to the entity, other than having exclusive control of the server.

First, I would of course, consult you on what kind of server you would need ... you need one to run a full node (bitcoind) I guess, but it's possible to have that run on either a separate computer, or even just have a possibly more efficient SPV client, or something like that; I wouldn't really know, I'm just talking out loud.

But as, since, I'm obviously not rich, you'd have to accept an offer of a percentage of straight commission as compensation.

While I will grant you exclusive control of the server, I'd like some changes made to the way rolls are calculated. If you don't mind.

Another thing, most everyone here isn't going to bother me, since, uh ... well, I'm still a ranking officer in the armed forces. That does count for something here. Zero arrests, no record, zero traffic tickets / violations, clean driver's license, perfect tax-payer, a permit to carry firearms outside the residence... you get the point.

As an example, I'm a director of a local bitcoin exchange, but if it's not obvious, I'm not the one running it.
https://coinxchange.ph/about

My dung beetle is tired of looking at the galaxies in the sky, and I just need a place to invest what's left of my 10 bitcoins.


Dabs

[dooglus]

[...] we have some catching up to do [...]
[...] eager to start regaining your trust [...]

Both of these lines make it sound like you were responsible for the dicebitco.in debacle!

[dooglus]

It doesn't necessarily need to be open source, it could just be shared with a trusted group of coders for review. Then the code on the server could be hashed regularly and that hash compared to the hash of the code that had been reviewed. Any code changes would quickly be obvious to anyone who bothered to check.

The problem is that you (the player) can't know that I don't have two copies of the code - the one I hash (the public version) and the one I really run (which cheats you).

I would have to grant server access to a trusted auditor who could check what code was actually running. He would have to have access any time he liked (or I could replace the bad code with good code just before letting him in each time). Then there's the problem that the code that is running (in RAM) isn't necessarily the same code that currently resides on the hard drive. I could swap to the bad code just for the fraction of a second it takes to start the server, then switch back to the good code the rest of the time so it looks good for the auditor.

I could even go as far as to tamper with the nodejs interpreter to have it misinterpret the (good) code that it loads and do bad things. See Ken Thompson's famous paper or the discussion of it on wikipedia if you don't understand what I'm getting at here.

Basically, if you have root access to the box running the server you can make it act in bad yet undetectable ways if you want to badly enough. And even if you couldn't, you could still run off with the cold wallet when it got big enough.

[a1choi]

doog might get back into the game?  when and where and how do i get involved :p

[monim1]

I miss just-dice It was the only way I ever made coins off a dice site. But I can see why not that many other sites are doing the whole "invest in this site" shabang. It's a lot more profitable for them not to do it.