[Pre-ANN][BRO] BreakoutCoin | Bergstake | BottlessNight | Gaming Platform +

[ofortuna]

Hold up!

I just read some of the literature.  Only in legal to play markets?  Will I have to give you ID to play and withdraw my coins?  

Hi JakeThePanda,

Poker and Casino will not be available in the USA. We will follow all applicable laws.

ID's (like driver's license?) shouldn't be required to play or withdraw coins.  It's the traditional payment processors that have stringent KYC requirements.

How will you know where I'm from if ID isn't required?  I guess there will be no playing poker with the pros considering most of them are from the USA. 

For US residents:

We will IP block USA poker/casino play until laws change.  Although some consider crypto poker to be a legal grey area and offer unlicensed poker to the USA, we feel that it's not worth the risk it brings to the project and all the big names behind it.  We are thinking long term.

All forms of Fantasy Sports are legal in every state with a few exceptions.

Many Pros have residences outside the US.  We're working with Gzesh so that the Pros, even while in the US, will be able to participate in planned poker promotions.  You will be able to play with the Pros.

[darylluke]

Interesting project gents, have me wondering about the following:

Considering that Bergstake is a significant innovation, sitting/waiting on it for two years of PoW is largely unattractive (in my mind).
Would you consider activating Bergstake sooner, perhaps having a stage of concurrent PoW and PoS?

Once POW ends and Bergstake starts,  it will be impossible to obtain more Bergstake. So whatever the distribution looks like at that point, will continue forever. The two years of mining  coupled with the ICO, should have the effect of distributing the Bergstake as widely as possible.

Think of the bergstake as an out-of-the money call option, or lottery ticket, that you get for free each time you solve POW. ICO investors will also get Bergstake.

In the limit as as POW time gets closer to 0 , the coin basically becomes a 100% pre-mine, which we do not want.

Interesting idea regarding concurrent PoW / PoS , would have to flush this out.

Also, will the ICO allow participation for someone that does not have a local BTC wallet? I only ever use web wallets for BTC, and the automagic distribution of BRO to ICO buyers sounds to me as depending on access to one's BTC keys. Please elaborate.

Best of luck!
~ Myagui

@myagui - yes, the basic method would depend on a access to local BTC keys.  we are working on a solution that would enable the use of web wallets.

if anyone has some suggestions we would love to hear. bounties will be available.

Especially with Snowden revelations, we here in the USA know they can access our PC any time they like.
I know, there are solutions, but those are NOT available to most people.Learning curve is just too big to overcome. I had 13 BTC stolen from my computer back when it was about 30bux. I ONLY trust exchanges, and BLOCKCHAIN.

So, are you saying I cannot participate in ICO if I don't have a wallet on my computer prior to October 4th, when the ICO comes??? SHIT MAN, THAT SUX , if in fact true. I have NOT been this excited about a new coin since BTCD went public. I have been getting "my ducks in a row" since I first saw this thread. Now it looks like I can't participate early.... PLEASE tell me it ain't so!! 

~darylluke.

[ofortuna]

Interesting project gents, have me wondering about the following:

Considering that Bergstake is a significant innovation, sitting/waiting on it for two years of PoW is largely unattractive (in my mind).
Would you consider activating Bergstake sooner, perhaps having a stage of concurrent PoW and PoS?

Once POW ends and Bergstake starts,  it will be impossible to obtain more Bergstake. So whatever the distribution looks like at that point, will continue forever. The two years of mining  coupled with the ICO, should have the effect of distributing the Bergstake as widely as possible.

Think of the bergstake as an out-of-the money call option, or lottery ticket, that you get for free each time you solve POW. ICO investors will also get Bergstake.

In the limit as as POW time gets closer to 0 , the coin basically becomes a 100% pre-mine, which we do not want.

Interesting idea regarding concurrent PoW / PoS , would have to flush this out.

Also, will the ICO allow participation for someone that does not have a local BTC wallet? I only ever use web wallets for BTC, and the automagic distribution of BRO to ICO buyers sounds to me as depending on access to one's BTC keys. Please elaborate.

Best of luck!
~ Myagui

@myagui - yes, the basic method would depend on a access to local BTC keys.  we are working on a solution that would enable the use of web wallets.

if anyone has some suggestions we would love to hear. bounties will be available.

Especially with Snowden revelations, we here in the USA know they can access our PC any time they like.
I know, there are solutions, but those are NOT available to most people.Learning curve is just too big to overcome. I had 13 BTC stolen from my computer back when it was about 30bux. I ONLY trust exchanges, and BLOCKCHAIN.

So, are you saying I cannot participate in ICO if I don't have a wallet on my computer prior to October 4th, when the ICO comes??? SHIT MAN, THAT SUX , if in fact true. I have NOT been this excited about a new coin since BTCD went public. I have been getting "my ducks in a row" since I first saw this thread. Now it looks like I can't participate early.... PLEASE tell me it ain't so!! 

~darylluke.

It aint so.

we are working on a solution that would enable the use of web wallets.

You will be to participate in the ICO with a web wallet.

[darylluke]

ofortuna,

Thanks. Not to offend, but I'd like to hear it from dev that it will be ready OCT. 4th, or prior....

[JakeThePanda]

Hold up!

I just read some of the literature.  Only in legal to play markets?  Will I have to give you ID to play and withdraw my coins?  

Hi JakeThePanda,

Poker and Casino will not be available in the USA. We will follow all applicable laws.

ID's (like driver's license?) shouldn't be required to play or withdraw coins.  It's the traditional payment processors that have stringent KYC requirements.

How will you know where I'm from if ID isn't required?  I guess there will be no playing poker with the pros considering most of them are from the USA. 

For US residents:

We will IP block USA poker/casino play until laws change.  Although some consider crypto poker to be a legal grey area and offer unlicensed poker to the USA, we feel that it's not worth the risk it brings to the project and all the big names behind it.  We are thinking long term.

All forms of Fantasy Sports are legal in every state with a few exceptions.

Many Pros have residences outside the US.  We're working with Gzesh so that the Pros, even while in the US, will be able to participate in planned poker promotions.  You will be able to play with the Pros.

Apparently, i won't be able to. that's quite disappointing.

[Malooka]

For US residents:

We will IP block USA poker/casino play until laws change.  Although some consider crypto poker to be a legal grey area and offer unlicensed poker to the USA, we feel that it's not worth the risk it brings to the project and all the big names behind it.  We are thinking long term.

Is this a joke?  

What is the point of investing in this if one can't even play all the games?  And how will it ever achieve success while leaving out such a huge market?

I suppose the sportsbook I made reference to earlier won't be available to anyone in the US either?

This is not looking good, makes me reconsider to put it mildly.

[ofortuna]

For US residents:

We will IP block USA poker/casino play until laws change.  Although some consider crypto poker to be a legal grey area and offer unlicensed poker to the USA, we feel that it's not worth the risk it brings to the project and all the big names behind it.  We are thinking long term.

Is this a joke?  

What is the point of investing in this if one can't even play all the games?  And how will it ever achieve success while leaving out such a huge market?

I suppose the sportsbook I made reference to earlier won't be available to anyone in the US either?

This is not looking good, makes me reconsider to put it mildly.

Although it would be great to have the US players, it didn't stop Amaya from recently buying Pokerstars and FT for $4.9 Billion.  They don't operate in the USA and offer only poker.

Perhaps Amaya feels poker will open up in the US?  I hope so.

[brother3]

Proof that you're working with pros?

Please check out the poker players' official Twitters for starters

[masternode]

I don't get it.  Why not just create a suite of online gambling sites that accepts crypto without exposing yourself to the downside of a failed coin?  99% of the coins that are released wind up as shitcoins offering little or no real innovation, and from what I've seen here I don't expect this coin to stand out in any meaningful way.

When you try to be everything you typically wind up with nothing, BRO.

-- the gaming platform with a built-in exchange will create a unique environment that can support BRO coin by providing unprecedented liquidity.

-- by creating a new coin, it enables the use of a small portion of the BRO pre-mine, to be widely distributed through freeroll contests.

-- BRO uses an innovative new proof-of-stake algorithm, which makes it a viable currency on its own as an alternative to bitcoin.

-- the coin and the platform each can survive on its own, but together they are both stronger.

Do you have any clue about what you're saying?

1.)  -- the gaming platform with a built-in exchange will create a unique environment that can support BRO coin by providing unprecedented liquidity.

Numerous online gambling sites have failed because it's a very competitive environment.  Likewise there are plenty of struggling exchanges in the crypto space that can't seem to attract liquidity.  You've explained nothing, only having made a grand claim that combining both of these is some sort of secret sauce that will magically make players or traders appear on their platform or exchange.  This claim is completely ridiculous.

the magic happens because the users are there for the games, we have fantasy esports games, for a younge demographic and fanatics of spectator esports.

2.)  -- by creating a new coin, it enables the use of a small portion of the BRO pre-mine, to be widely distributed through freeroll contests.

The coin needs to have some sort of value first.  If all they got is the idea that combing a gaming platform with an exchange will somehow create liquidity or value for the coin, then you'll most likely see freeroll contests with worthless prizes.

no its doesnt need value, only utility. but it has value , this value is a side effect of the various gaming laws and regulations

3.)  -- BRO uses an innovative new proof-of-stake algorithm, which makes it a viable currency on its own as an alternative to bitcoin.

Lol.  Please expand.  A currency requires people exchange with it.  Why exactly do I want to use this currency?  Is there somewhere for me to spend it other than a gambling site / exchange that probably won't have any players or use it on freerolls that have worthless prizes?  Without clearly answering they you plan to provide liquidity or find players for the gambling sites then this statement is a crock of shit.

much lulz back.. u win 5 Internets

its a coin, a token, its solves the nothing-at-stake problem. it maybe worthless, but it should still be in the top 10 market-cap, because its all worthless. including fiat, and cat memes

RTFM!
 

4.)  -- the coin and the platform each can survive on its own, but together they are both stronger.

Unless they are both worthless.  I hate to break it to you but 0 + 0 = 0.  And again you've made a ridiculous claim without any sort of reasonable explanation to back up why it will be stronger.  

something strange in your neighborhood....




who you gonna call???





FUD busters!
 


fyi. i can answer any questions you have. just ask nicely.

Lol.  Actually your responses continue to fail to answer critical points.  It's embarassing what you try and pass off as acceptable logic as to why this scheme will work.  Then you try and brush it off as FUD not realizing that I'm a fairly established speculator / investor in the bitcoin community who simply doesn't understand how BRO can work as easily and with as much certainty as you claim.  FWIW, I'm also an ex professional poker player (WSOP bracelet winner), and I'm extremely knowledgable about the ins and outs of both the gambling industry and cryptocurrency ecosystem.  

But back to your comments:

"the magic happens because the users are there for the games, we have fantasy esports games, for a younge demographic and fanatics of spectator esports."

Again you make a ridiculous claim that the "users are there".  I'm sorry, but if only it was that easy to launch a business in a competitive environment and have the players just show up.  Take a close look at the ghost towns that exist in online poker.  

http://www.pokerscout.com/

Even Sealswithclubs really only has at most 300 to 400 cash players online at any given moment in time.  The most recent bitcoin poker site to launch is betcoinpoker.com, who has excellent software, but still remains a ghost town, showing that "if you build it, they will come" is not always the case.  

So without discussing marketing strategy in depth, or showing a logical offering that really is a different from the so many other gambling sites makes your claim that "users are there for the games" absolutely ridiculous.

Then there is your answer to the next question: "no its doesnt need value, only utility. but it has value , this value is a side effect of the various gaming laws and regulations"

According to this logic then every online gambling site has value.  Again a ridiculous claim.  Proof is all the ghost town pokersites listed on www.pokerscout.com.  But according to your logic "various gaming lawas and regulations" give them value.  Please expand on the various gaming laws (in detail) and the logic as to how they create value for Breakoutcoin.

"its a coin, a token, its solves the nothing-at-stake problem. it maybe worthless, but it should still be in the top 10 market-cap, because its all worthless. including fiat, and cat memes"

Again, you've done nothing other than say "it should still be in the top 10 market-cap" because all the others suck.  Great to see your investment criteria is so rigorous.  Good luck with that.

and then for the last one, rather than answer a questions you claim what I'm doing is spreading fud, when in reality i'm just asking for a clear logical reason why this will succeed.   Sorry if I don't ask nicely, maybe give a logical detailed answer and you'll get the respect you think you deserve.

[myagui]

[...]
Considering that Bergstake is a significant innovation, sitting/waiting on it for two years of PoW is largely unattractive (in my mind).
Would you consider activating Bergstake sooner, perhaps having a stage of concurrent PoW and PoS?

Once POW ends and Bergstake starts,  it will be impossible to obtain more Bergstake. So whatever the distribution looks like at that point, will continue forever. The two years of mining  coupled with the ICO, should have the effect of distributing the Bergstake as widely as possible.

Think of the bergstake as an out-of-the money call option, or lottery ticket, that you get for free each time you solve POW. ICO investors will also get Bergstake.

In the limit as as POW time gets closer to 0 , the coin basically becomes a 100% pre-mine, which we do not want.

Interesting idea regarding concurrent PoW / PoS , would have to flush this out.

Bumping this quote just to ask if there's been further consideration to an earlier start to Bergstake, either by setting a shorter PoW period, or (preferably) by running concurrent PoW & PoS. This particular aspect might tip my decision of participating on the ICO or not.

Why I find this to be so important:
There's already a reasonable variety of altcoins based on cryptonote. Some of them offer certain unique features (within the 'cryptonote family'). Setting factors of utility and promotion aside, the significant technical innovation presented by BRO, is Bergstake. It is not reasonable to wait for a 2 year PoW period, before one can observe this feature at work.
Hell, in 2 years time, I'd expect that other developments, technical adjustments and rethinking would be appropriate, both driven by internal factors to BRO, and external ones pushed by the widespread alt community. In a way, I suppose that I'm finding that by the current schedule, Bergstake might be obsolete before it even get's a chance. I really like the concept, just not the timeframe.
 
~ Myagui

[brother3]

Bumping this quote just to ask if there's been further consideration to an earlier start to Bergstake, either by setting a shorter PoW period, or (preferably) by running concurrent PoW & PoS. This particular aspect might tip my decision of participating on the ICO or not.

Why I find this to be so important:
There's already a reasonable variety of altcoins based on cryptonote. Some of them offer certain unique features (within the 'cryptonote family'). Setting factors of utility and promotion aside, the significant technical innovation presented by BRO, is Bergstake. It is not reasonable to wait for a 2 year PoW period, before one can observe this feature at work.
Hell, in 2 years time, I'd expect that other developments, technical adjustments and rethinking would be appropriate, both driven by internal factors to BRO, and external ones pushed by the widespread alt community. In a way, I suppose that I'm finding that by the current schedule, Bergstake might be obsolete before it even get's a chance. I really like the concept, just not the timeframe.
 
~ Myagui

You do have a very good point regarding the time frame.  Rest assure that we are entertaining all good ideas for BRO development.  
Your constructive input/criticism is very much appreciated.  

[TippingPoint]

Is the suggestion something like a 6 month PoW phase, followed by an 18 month phase shared by PoW and Bergstake (with the ratio based on the amount of capitalization or a fixed schedule), followed by Bergstake?

 

[ofortuna]

Proof that you're working with pros?

Please check out the poker players' official Twitters for starters

Link please? I don't follow poker twitters.

Hi Vald,

Here's a few tweets from the Poker Pros to check out!

https://twitter.com/BreakoutGaming

https://twitter.com/REALJenHarman/status/511709224775467009

https://twitter.com/back2backflack/status/511684185379987456

https://twitter.com/ForrestTed/status/511673494455599105

https://twitter.com/_DavidBenyamine/status/511745726192578560

https://twitter.com/ToddBrunson

https://twitter.com/HuckleberrySeed/status/511673142201573376

[177sis]

Is this coin launched,  how to get coins?

[provenceday]

Is this coin launched,  how to get coins?

it seems has not been launched yet.

[brother3]

it seems has not been launched yet.

Thanks for the kind words in your PMs, provenceday!  Nice to see you on the thread!

Is this coin launched,  how to get coins?

Coins will be offered during the ICO and you can also mine them during its 2 year POW phase.  The coins obtained via ICO and POW mining will have Bergstake,which gives the right to sign future blocks during the POS phase.  Bergstake differs from typical coins in that Bergstake is non-transferable and lasts forever.

The launch will be soon after the conclusion of ICO (which should start on Oct 7th and lasts for 2 weeks)

Watch for our official announcement thread with more exciting news...

[jaybny]

Lol.  Actually your responses continue to fail to answer critical points.  It's embarassing what you try and pass off as acceptable logic as to why this scheme will work.  Then you try and brush it off as FUD not realizing that I'm a fairly established speculator / investor in the bitcoin community who simply doesn't understand how BRO can work as easily and with as much certainty as you claim.  FWIW, I'm also an ex professional poker player (WSOP bracelet winner), and I'm extremely knowledgable about the ins and outs of both the gambling industry and cryptocurrency ecosystem.  

But back to your comments:.......
.....

By taking bullet points out of context and muddling facts with opinion, you are creating Fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD) .

I don't get it.  Why not just create a suite of online gambling sites that accepts crypto without exposing yourself to the downside of a failed coin?  99% of the coins that are released wind up as shitcoins offering little or no real innovation, and from what I've seen here I don't expect this coin to stand out in any meaningful way.

When you try to be everything you typically wind up with nothing, BRO.

You original question was why the gaming platform needs a new coin. and then you go on to say that most coins will fail, and that you don't expect this coin to stand out in any way.

-- the gaming platform with a built-in exchange will create a unique environment that can support BRO coin by providing unprecedented liquidity.

-- by creating a new coin, it enables the use of a small portion of the BRO pre-mine, to be widely distributed through freeroll contests.

-- BRO uses an innovative new proof-of-stake algorithm, which makes it a viable currency on its own as an alternative to bitcoin.

-- the coin and the platform each can survive on its own, but together they are both stronger.

Your question seems to lay down the assumption that the gaming platform can succeed without the coin. My bullet points highlights some possible reasons breakout gaming can benefit from breakout coin. It also highlights how BRO is innovative in itself.

You then take my bullet points out of context, and use them as a basis for your arguments. Again, my bulletpoints were on the assumption that the gaming platform is sound, and on the path of success independent of the coin.  

====================================================================

The question as to why any coin is needed in the first place, is totally arbitrary, and debatable.  Dodgecoin was started as a joke, yet was "successful". There was a full show on lets talk bitcoin debating the need for LTBcoin, which never got resolved, yet they went ahead and launched LTBcoin anyways.

To have a FUDless discussion, we need to setup the assumptions.

Lets start by totally separating the coin from the platform. Breakout gaming was seeking to incorporate new and innovative features to BRO. They approached me to design and implement BRO based on the innovations from my Satoshi Fantasy white paper.

-- BRO is a crypto-currency, an "alt-coin". It is no worse than any other alt-coin. In fact, it claims to finally solve all the issues plaguing Proof-of-stake.

-- Breakout Gaming is a gaming platform startup, with poker pros backers, and a strong marketing and promotion arm.

-- since BRO is distributed and decentralized, it will not have any hard connection to breakout gaming once launched. So ICO investors, should look at BRO by itself when deciding to invest or not.

-- all crypto-currencies are based on new experimental technology, and should be considered extremely speculative, there are many different ways investors can loose all their money.

if breakout gaming is successful and follows through to use BRO exclusively, and if BRO is a technical success, then there is a case to be made that both the coin and platform are stronger together than alone.

[bogdan_ulm]

Read this topic 4 days ago and since then only new great stuff! Really excited about it, BRO.

[jaybny]

Is the suggestion something like a 6 month PoW phase, followed by an 18 month phase shared by PoW and Bergstake (with the ratio based on the amount of capitalization or a fixed schedule), followed by Bergstake?
 

shortening the PoW time window is something we are open to.  a shared PoW and Bergstake phase still needs to be flushed out. one idea is to have PoS interest during the PoW phase. having a phase with both PoW and PoS block signers has fundamental problems, that I have not yet seen resolved.

[BreakoutCoin]

The announcement thread has been delayed due to technical issues regarding the development of the initial coin purchase process. Please continue the discussion on this pre-announcement thread.  Once technicals have been resolved, we will make the announcement with all the details and close this thread.