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Author Topic: BitcoinBountyHunter.com Bitcoin Bounties to catch the crooks!  (Read 10946 times)
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September 17, 2014, 11:59:02 PM
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Not much of a website.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, but looks like they should talk to some PHP guy.

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September 18, 2014, 03:18:08 AM
 #22

Bitfloor page?

Great idea!  Can someone who was directly involved, and wants to create the content for the page contact me at ask@bitcoinbountyhunter.com ?

There have been lots of other great requests for new bounties as well. 
Some of them will be online in the coming days.

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September 18, 2014, 04:15:09 AM
 #23

Great service, and I hope that Oracles and/or projects like this https://github.com/psztorc/Truthcoin will bring some good tech to make this decentralized.

Maybe this is an interesting thread where is possible to find many ideas for bounties:)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337

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September 18, 2014, 04:22:22 AM
 #24

Bitcoin is a protocol,
Correct. Let's look at exactly what that means.

A protocol is a standardized way of doing something. Recipes are good examples of protocols.

You could make a very sweet cake with too much sugar in your recipe, or you could put in some jalapeno peppers and put someone in the hospital... Both recipes, when written down, are protocols.

Bitcoin is not a bland recipe for currencies. Satoshi understood the ingredients he was working with far better than most, and not just the cryptography... He understood economics, which is the science of human action as it relates to value.

By placing the right economic incentives in the recipe, there is only one possible outcome for this money's future. It will keep giving people reasons to leave other currencies and only hold bitcoin for years and years to come. Probably all the way to 2140 when all coins are mined. National currencies have absolutely Zero chance against this recipe. It's in the bag.

Since nations are funded by printing currencies, and in fact are no longer capable of waging war without control of a printing press for money, (No decent-sized war in 100 years was funded by taxpayer money!) Satoshi's recipe is the most devastating move that can be imagined in any modern political arena.



All these arguments were already played out when the Internet was developed.  in 1995 there were groups saying the Internet was meant for research and advertising
ISPs are centralized, and the governments of the world easily control them. It isn't surprising to anyone paying attention that the internet cannot be the bastion of freedom it was meant to be.

...Of course the Meshnets are coming, but that's another argument for another time.



Some people say it is a tool of freedom fighters while other say it is a tool of the State to track transactions.

The former group understands economics & praxeology, the latter has problems with the concept of distributed software architecture.

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September 18, 2014, 04:29:35 AM
 #25

@Roger:  You mention on the page that you eventually want BBH to be distributed... Have you considered talking to the OpenBazaar devs to see if you can get it included into that software? I've seen the beta; this thing could replace amazon & the Silk Road both someday.

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September 18, 2014, 04:49:19 AM
 #26

Bitcoin is a protocol,
Correct. Let's look at exactly what that means.

A protocol is a standardized way of doing something. Recipes are good examples of protocols.

You could make a very sweet cake with too much sugar in your recipe, or you could put in some jalapeno peppers and put someone in the hospital... Both recipes, when written down, are protocols.

Bitcoin is not a bland recipe for currencies. Satoshi understood the ingredients he was working with far better than most, and not just the cryptography... He understood economics, which is the science of human action as it relates to value.

By placing the right economic incentives in the recipe, there is only one possible outcome for this money's future. It will keep giving people reasons to leave other currencies and only hold bitcoin for years and years to come. Probably all the way to 2140 when all coins are mined. National currencies have absolutely Zero chance against this recipe. It's in the bag.

Since nations are funded by printing currencies, and in fact are no longer capable of waging war without control of a printing press for money, (No decent-sized war in 100 years was funded by taxpayer money!) Satoshi's recipe is the most devastating move that can be imagined in any modern political arena.



All these arguments were already played out when the Internet was developed.  in 1995 there were groups saying the Internet was meant for research and advertising
ISPs are centralized, and the governments of the world easily control them. It isn't surprising to anyone paying attention that the internet cannot be the bastion of freedom it was meant to be.

...Of course the Meshnets are coming, but that's another argument for another time.



Some people say it is a tool of freedom fighters while other say it is a tool of the State to track transactions.

The former group understands economics & praxeology, the latter has problems with the concept of distributed software architecture.


you have a lot of hyperbole in there and you confuse what something is with how it can be used.  Also, Bitcoin is not a religion and Satoshi is not some kind of messiah.  If you go around saying how Bitcoin is going to abolish banks nobody reasonable will listen to you.  In fact banks will most likely be using Bitcoin in the future and nothing will "collapse."  Bitcoin is part of an evolutionary process and people who go around with all kinds of hyperbole about governments and banks collapsing and wars ending really do no good.  Even if it was true promoting it in that fashion will assure it always stay weak and never catch on.

These people discuss these issues. Ted Nelson dismisses the whole "wing nut" group in a couple sentences and that is how most people react:

Preston Byrne: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/lets-talk-bitcoin-137-eye-of-the-beholder
Peter Todd:  https://soundcloud.com/mindtomatter/e73-round-pegs-and-square
Ted Nelson:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CMucDjJQ4E

I used to think that Free state project was a good thing.  I have changed my mind because bringing these people together isolates them and distances them from reality and they sit around reinforcing each other with nonsense.  It would be much better if they were dispersed among the regular population so they could live in reality.


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September 18, 2014, 06:17:54 AM
 #27

@Roger:  You mention on the page that you eventually want BBH to be distributed... Have you considered talking to the OpenBazaar devs to see if you can get it included into that software? I've seen the beta; this thing could replace amazon & the Silk Road both someday.

I'm very interested in and supportive of OpenBazaar.
I'm confident distributed hosting of some sort will be available within the next few years.
Currently I'm trying to figure out a way to make the payouts trustless using something like http://realitykeys.com/

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September 18, 2014, 07:14:45 AM
 #28

you confuse what something is with how it can be used.
Not quite; I am speaking of economic incentives. Things that get used a certain way BECAUSE they are what they are.

I'd advise you to really get to understand the inner workings of the concept called the Network effect. You may think you already do have it down pat but I assure you that you do not. If you did, you'd know that competition does not survive when it's on your side.

Before bitcoin money was always restricted artificially (by people with guns enforcing borders) from following through to the logical conclusion that network effects would have given them. Bitcoin does not even see those guns and borders. It just doesn't recognize them, like it wouldn't slow down to recognize any bitlicense or other regulation placed upon it either. It's going to keep doing what the 51% of downloading users want it to do... And that will always tend towards freedom.

If all fiat currencies today were cassette walkmen, and bitcoin was a free ipod, states would already have a hard time keeping them away from you, and inevitably fail to do so in the end. -But the real magic here is that this ipod can Teleport into your pocket without ever being detected by the state... How the hell is the walkman going to survive such competition? It's beyond naive to think it could.


Bitcoin is not a religion and Satoshi is not some kind of messiah.
Don't be insulting; I respect his vision but said nothing about religion. If it sounds like religion to you when I talk about economics I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you fail to see the inevitability of bitcoin's domination.  


If you go around saying how Bitcoin is going to abolish banks nobody reasonable will listen to you.
I don't talk about things like this in front of the noobs... Here on bitcointalk however we shouldn't have to hobble ourselves like that; we need to be pushing boundaries.


In fact banks will most likely be using Bitcoin in the future and nothing will "collapse."
Hilarious. How the hell are they going to afford to keep the lights on when they can't charge any fees for their products? Lol... About the only thing they have to offer is loans, assuming they can get their hands on enough coin to loan out in time... But already sites like BTCJam are doing this and getting the jump on them so honestly, I can't see any niche for them to survive in.

Oh, and I didn't use the word collapse... You did that. The dollar will go to Zero but it won't be like hyperinflation of yesteryear because bitcoin exists this time and people have somewhere to move their wealth into for the first time in history. Once it happens just once in some place like argentina (as it partially happened in Cyprus) the world will know what to do when it's their turn.


Even if it was true promoting it in that fashion will assure it always stay weak and never catch on.
Again, if you understood economic incentives better you'd see there is literally nothing I can say to slow down bitcoin's dominance. It will be adopted because of economic reasons, like people not having a bank account otherwise, or it being the only affordable option to the majority of the world.


I used to think that Free state project was a good thing.
I never did. They make waaaaaaay to easy of a target that way.

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September 18, 2014, 07:26:12 AM
 #29

Have they caught the person, who stole Klee's coins?

Or the person who hacked the nude photos of the celeb ladies?

Well.. Those are linked to bitcoin and it's bad publicity for the whole bitcoin community. We should support and embrace people, who are willing to provide a service like this.

Only when you become a victim of this, will you fully appreciate it's value.

            ███           ▄▄▄████████▄▄▄           ███       ▀███          ▀██▄ ▄██▀          ███▀
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........T H E   F U T U R E.................
......................o f   B E A U T Y
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September 18, 2014, 08:06:19 AM
 #30

Not sure how it can be done, but in cases where real Bitcoin is missing, it would be nice if users could offer a percentage of recovered Bitcoin. This would be a great possibility for MtGox losses, as well as individual hacking incidences. I understand that "gox coins" are not legal (at least in Japan) because they are considered a security. However, I am sure the Bitcoin community would be perfectly fine with this sort of solution.
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September 18, 2014, 10:50:21 AM
 #31

It looks like someone is trying to pull the plug and trying to blame Mark Karpeles for the loss of MtGox money.

DO NOT KILL MARK KARPELES
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/17/mt-gox-s-karpeles-on-losing-a-half-billion-bucks-in-bitcoins.html

We know that Mark Karpeles is a half breed. Half European and Half Japanese. We need to collect a sample of Mark Karpeles DNA to find out if he was a descendant of the 13 inbred Terrorist European Bloodlines of the Illuminati. The case might be bigger than you think, Mark Karpeles might be a CIA agent bought & paid for by Central Banks to sabotage the idea of trust in Bitcoin.
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September 18, 2014, 11:52:35 AM
 #32


We know that Mark Karpeles is a half breed. Half European and Half Japanese. We need to collect a sample of Mark Karpeles DNA to find out if he was a descendant of the 13 inbred Terrorist European Bloodlines of the Illuminati. The case might be bigger than you think, Mark Karpeles might be a CIA agent bought & paid for by Central Banks to sabotage the idea of trust in Bitcoin.

American Patriots vs. The 13 European terrorist bloodlines of the Terrorist organization illuminati (also known as The European Union) Full coverage of the current Civil War in America http://civilwarinusa.blogspot.com/


You look like a perfect fit for this project. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRIJ_jpmwzo

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September 18, 2014, 03:07:37 PM
 #33

It would be great if the bounty never gets collected then the bitcoins get retuned to the donors.

I realise that this opens people up to faults like loosing the private key and then the refund being sent to destruction but it would be a nice option to have.
The bounty could have a time limit on them even if it's 5 years, it would be like a cool savings account if it didn't get solved. Smiley
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September 18, 2014, 09:25:29 PM
 #34

I welcome this project.

However, I think it would be great to limit it at the moment to Bitcoin related crimes/scams.

Unfortunately, English isn't my native language, so if some parts of what I write here are not clear, please don't hesitate to ask - I'll try to explain more.

One of the things I do is: I try to teach law enforcement professionals how to deal with crimes in the cyber world in a forensically sound way. This is essential if you not only want to catch a criminal but also want him to be convicted.

It never was as easy as before to produce evidence which can be ripped apart in a court of law by defense lawyers because it was obtained/stored/forwarded in a way which disrupts the chain of evidence. In the Bitcoin-world, it is much easier to get evidence which is forensically sound. But: There's a lot of evidence one has to collect around Bitcoins. And here I see some difficulties for this site. I therefore would recommend that you put some information in the FAQ how evidence should be stored locally before forwarded to the site.

Btw: I'm working here in Europe on two projects which could add some value to the bountyhunter-project. The basics are set up, so maybe we should get in contact off list.
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September 18, 2014, 09:34:49 PM
 #35


It never was as easy as before to produce evidence which can be ripped apart in a court of law by defense lawyers because it was obtained/stored/forwarded in a way which disrupts the chain of evidence. In the Bitcoin-world, it is much easier to get evidence which is forensically sound.


I don't think that would be the case.  It would be extremely difficult and complicated to present Bitcoin-related evidence in court and it would most likely require an expensive expert to testify even if you could collect the evidence.  Also, if it comes out that law enforcement gets a "bounty" that could be a basis for dismissing the entire case.  The OP has no concept of the requirements for evidence that can be presented in court.

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September 18, 2014, 09:58:36 PM
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It never was as easy as before to produce evidence which can be ripped apart in a court of law by defense lawyers because it was obtained/stored/forwarded in a way which disrupts the chain of evidence. In the Bitcoin-world, it is much easier to get evidence which is forensically sound.


I don't think that would be the case.  It would be extremely difficult and complicated to present Bitcoin-related evidence in court and it would most likely require an expensive expert to testify even if you could collect the evidence.  Also, if it comes out that law enforcement gets a "bounty" that could be a basis for dismissing the entire case.  The OP has no concept of the requirements for evidence that can be presented in court.

Of course it would be complicated to present Bitcoin-related evidence in a court of law. But this is the normal day-to-day business: You have to "translate" what happened in the world of technology into the language of a lawyer. And: In a criminal case - and it seems at the moment that most of the cases will be criminal cases - you can give the evidence to a DA. This DA will not only rely on what you give him, but will do his own research in the real world. So at the end of the day, the evidence will be embedded in a whole bunch of other evidence.

In my day-to-day business, I am used that you spend per 100 hours research 300 hours in explaining the evidence to law enforcement. With Bitcoin-related evidence, this rate most probably will rise (in some cases in which Bitcoins were involved, I spent literally weeks to explain the concept of Bitcoins to cops, lawyers, DA and judged). So I do this expert work and agree with you that this is time consuming and complicated and some times as expensive as frustrating, however: Should this be the reason not to go after criminals? Many law enforcement agencies all over the world currently cease cases because they think they are too complicated.

Your argument that a case could be dismissed because of a bounty is void. It may be the case in some jurisdictions, but only in few.

And finally: Given the fact that many law enforcement agencies in the world do not know how to deal with cases in which Bitcoin is involved, and given the fact that media, politicians and banks all over the world repeatedly say that Bitcoin is the perfect tool for comitting crimes: Who else but the Bitcoin community would be the ones who can show that there is a possibility to catch those criminals?
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September 18, 2014, 10:07:44 PM
 #37


It never was as easy as before to produce evidence which can be ripped apart in a court of law by defense lawyers because it was obtained/stored/forwarded in a way which disrupts the chain of evidence. In the Bitcoin-world, it is much easier to get evidence which is forensically sound.


I don't think that would be the case.  It would be extremely difficult and complicated to present Bitcoin-related evidence in court and it would most likely require an expensive expert to testify even if you could collect the evidence.  Also, if it comes out that law enforcement gets a "bounty" that could be a basis for dismissing the entire case.  The OP has no concept of the requirements for evidence that can be presented in court.

Of course it would be complicated to present Bitcoin-related evidence in a court of law. But this is the normal day-to-day business: You have to "translate" what happened in the world of technology into the language of a lawyer. And: In a criminal case - and it seems at the moment that most of the cases will be criminal cases - you can give the evidence to a DA. This DA will not only rely on what you give him, but will do his own research in the real world. So at the end of the day, the evidence will be embedded in a whole bunch of other evidence.

In my day-to-day business, I am used that you spend per 100 hours research 300 hours in explaining the evidence to law enforcement. With Bitcoin-related evidence, this rate most probably will rise (in some cases in which Bitcoins were involved, I spent literally weeks to explain the concept of Bitcoins to cops, lawyers, DA and judged). So I do this expert work and agree with you that this is time consuming and complicated and some times as expensive as frustrating, however: Should this be the reason not to go after criminals? Many law enforcement agencies all over the world currently cease cases because they think they are too complicated.

Your argument that a case could be dismissed because of a bounty is void. It may be the case in some jurisdictions, but only in few.

And finally: Given the fact that many law enforcement agencies in the world do not know how to deal with cases in which Bitcoin is involved, and given the fact that media, politicians and banks all over the world repeatedly say that Bitcoin is the perfect tool for comitting crimes: Who else but the Bitcoin community would be the ones who can show that there is a possibility to catch those criminals?


I agree with what you say if there was some type of organization, say modeled after CERT, that provided information to law enforcement.  However, having one guy in Japan with a personal agenda making bounties and whose experience with law enforcement is getting arrested for firecrackers is not the way to go.

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September 18, 2014, 10:13:29 PM
 #38


It never was as easy as before to produce evidence which can be ripped apart in a court of law by defense lawyers because it was obtained/stored/forwarded in a way which disrupts the chain of evidence. In the Bitcoin-world, it is much easier to get evidence which is forensically sound.


I don't think that would be the case.  It would be extremely difficult and complicated to present Bitcoin-related evidence in court and it would most likely require an expensive expert to testify even if you could collect the evidence.  Also, if it comes out that law enforcement gets a "bounty" that could be a basis for dismissing the entire case.  The OP has no concept of the requirements for evidence that can be presented in court.

Of course it would be complicated to present Bitcoin-related evidence in a court of law. But this is the normal day-to-day business: You have to "translate" what happened in the world of technology into the language of a lawyer. And: In a criminal case - and it seems at the moment that most of the cases will be criminal cases - you can give the evidence to a DA. This DA will not only rely on what you give him, but will do his own research in the real world. So at the end of the day, the evidence will be embedded in a whole bunch of other evidence.

In my day-to-day business, I am used that you spend per 100 hours research 300 hours in explaining the evidence to law enforcement. With Bitcoin-related evidence, this rate most probably will rise (in some cases in which Bitcoins were involved, I spent literally weeks to explain the concept of Bitcoins to cops, lawyers, DA and judged). So I do this expert work and agree with you that this is time consuming and complicated and some times as expensive as frustrating, however: Should this be the reason not to go after criminals? Many law enforcement agencies all over the world currently cease cases because they think they are too complicated.

Your argument that a case could be dismissed because of a bounty is void. It may be the case in some jurisdictions, but only in few.

And finally: Given the fact that many law enforcement agencies in the world do not know how to deal with cases in which Bitcoin is involved, and given the fact that media, politicians and banks all over the world repeatedly say that Bitcoin is the perfect tool for comitting crimes: Who else but the Bitcoin community would be the ones who can show that there is a possibility to catch those criminals?


I agree with what you say if there was some type of organization, say modeled after CERT, that provided information to law enforcement.  However, having one guy in Japan with a personal agenda making bounties and whose experience with law enforcement is getting arrested for firecrackers is not the way to go.

So there's one simple conclusion: Let's help him!
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September 18, 2014, 10:46:19 PM
 #39


So there's one simple conclusion: Let's help him!

He is part of the original Foundation and he promoted businesses where many, many people lost money at web sites where the Foundation's logo appeared.  The people involved with the original Foundation are tainted and the "brand" is known for scams and incompetence.  The bounties posted are all associated with these activities.  The current situation is attracting all the wrong people and I wouldn't support that.  If some reasonable people got involved I could see the benefit but this is just generating bad publicity for Bitcoin as it is.

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September 19, 2014, 07:09:20 AM
 #40

Should we not give people an opportunity to right the wrongs, they did in their past?

Was he promoting these services, knowing that they were scams or was he scammed too? 

I believe in forgiveness, if someone :

1. Announce publically that he did wrong, and takes ownership for it.
2. Try to make ammends, by doing something to counter the wrong.
3. Do these things without hidden agendas or to do more wrong.

He had his "strike 1" ...I suggest we give him "strike 2" ......

It's easy to ruin a reputation, it's much harder to build it back up. If his actions add value and it makes a positive difference, it will be better for all.

The governments and press jumps on every opportunity, to bash the bitcoin protocol, when it's not even the protocol that was hacked, but the services using the protocol.

This in a way, can be seen as consumer protection, something that are lacking in the "payment processor" service side of bitcoin, and that is good. 


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