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Author Topic: Funds “frozen” in TyGrr-Bot’s MtGox account.  (Read 5318 times)
galambo
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May 01, 2012, 11:29:04 PM
 #41

In defense of Mt.Gox's new policies:

http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2012-A001.html
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Raoul Duke
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May 01, 2012, 11:35:51 PM
 #42

Additionally, It's not a decentralized service and it is ran by a guy that lives in the UK, and the servers are in the United StatesPortugal.

FTFY

zer0
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May 02, 2012, 12:15:52 AM
 #43

Just pay the tiny extra fees to transfer MtGoxUSD to a third party who will send you a wire. Eliminates all the problems of directly dealing with exchanges and their microscope examinations of outgoing funds they legally have to do. #bitcoin-otc is full of such people same with all of Gox's partners, or trade here with somebody reliable.

When you want to buy bitcoins do the same thing, avoid all the deposit holds and rules by buying GoxUSD. All these problems evaporate I've never had any withdrawal issues doing this. Sure it costs an extra $20-60 per $1,000 but who cares if it means no hassles, no holds, no endless ID notaries and DNA testing.  Smiley Smiley
MarketNeutral
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May 02, 2012, 12:17:08 AM
 #44



I don't know how this relates to GLBSE, as I don't follow the GLBSE, but now I'm curious and am going to have to check it out!

Its not as complicated as you are probably thinking.

GLBSE a website where you create a bitcoin denominated securities without providing any information as to who you are.

Additionally, It's not a decentralized service and it is ran by a guy that lives in the UK, and the servers are in the United States.

I recently tried to explain to him that this is a terrible idea.

The person that started this thread is the "founder" of one of these GLBSE companies. Their claim was that they were making arbitrage trades between BTC and unspecified currency. It appears this person is now trying to make like Sam Israel III with the principal.

It wouldn't be funny, but this is probably over a very tiny amount of money.

That's all there is to it? I'll do my own due diligence, but a big thank you for the information. Very interesting, and clearly, having some securities on an exchange or two doesn't preclude bitcoin from still being in its "wild west" infancy.

Should be interesting to see where the chips fall on so many of these "investments."

I love the enthusiasm and entrepreneurial spirit that accompanies bitcoin users and speculators, but operating something like a legit exchange is no small task. I can't wait to dig into the nuts and bolts of GLBSE.



MarketNeutral
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May 02, 2012, 12:22:28 AM
 #45

What some of you lack understanding of is that MT Gox not only has to abide by the laws of Japan, but also must abide by the laws of the nations of the account holders, the nation where the servers are located, every nation they have connected treaty(ies) with and do business in, and the nations that the data is passed through, else MT Gox would hold legal (civil and criminal) responsibility and liability.

In case you do not understand this, that is how the United States Department of Justice had arrested and extradition of the megaupload principles.

Red tape delays are part of the process.

They have not only the right, but the responsibility to protect themselves, their customers, and their ASSEtS.

Another issue is that laws regarding bitcoin are somewhat still open to interpretation and/or without precedent. Lots of gray area. Who issues and is responsible for bitcoin, a government? No. Is it a supranational currency like the SDR? No. Is it backed by something tangible? No. Etc.
TyGrr-PR
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May 02, 2012, 07:04:50 AM
 #46

Very good news from the Mt. Gox AML department.


"Hello,

We apologise, Mark hadn't fowarded that conversation onto us. In that case, what you have already submitted is fine, your account will be approved immediately. For AML2 status, we need hard-copies of the documentation you have already submitted, notarised and apostilled.

We sincerely apologise for the inconvenience."



We are looking into gaining AML2 status so we do not run into these issues again. We will contact them and ask specificity what documents they would like to have notarized and mailed to them.

We would like to thank Mt. Gox for responding quickly to the issues despite having a week long holiday.
dirtydiego
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May 03, 2012, 09:04:55 AM
 #47

Very good news from the Mt. Gox AML department.


"Hello,

We apologise, Mark hadn't fowarded that conversation onto us. In that case, what you have already submitted is fine, your account will be approved immediately. For AML2 status, we need hard-copies of the documentation you have already submitted, notarised and apostilled.

We sincerely apologise for the inconvenience."



We are looking into gaining AML2 status so we do not run into these issues again. We will contact them and ask specificity what documents they would like to have notarized and mailed to them.

We would like to thank Mt. Gox for responding quickly to the issues despite having a week long holiday.

glad you guys got through to them!!!!!     now team MTGOX how about getting to all the money you owe me?please
miernik
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May 06, 2012, 03:10:46 PM
 #48

Please rest assured that this case is indeed being reported to the police. Until we understand why you have multiple identities in different countries, we cannot take the risk of executing the operations requested.

This is absolutely ridiculous. Reporting their own customer to the police, just because a customer attempted to make a transfer to a believed third-party?

I am thinking of removing my MtGox account, because honestly Mark - this is just unacceptable behavior.

Even if your own invented internal company policy decided that you do not process transfers to third-party - it is completely enough to inform the customer that we do not process such transfers, and that's it. Calling the police? I am speechless. I thought you are someone who could be trusted, and not someone who reports to police for any slightest mistake. Banks make such mistakes routinely, for example transfers from joint accounts having the data of only one account owner in the transfer info, or old address after change of address, or even the banks address instead of customers address - I've all seen this. People change address, change names, have joint accounts, all these things happen routinely, and nobody calls the police the moment one sees some inconsistency. At worst the transfer gets reversed, and that's it. If you are calling the police for such things, that's my end of relationship with MtGox, sorry.

Anyway, a reporting a non-existent crime to the police is a crime in itself. Not only its wasting police time, but also wrongly accusing an innocent person.

Besides that what is the big deal with transfers to a third party? There are several currency-exchange websites, which all have to comply with AML regulations too, and many of them have no problem with transferring to third-party accounts.

See:

http://currencyfair.com/
http://currencyfair.com/perfectfor

http://transferwise.com/

for example. They both explicitly allow transfers of the exchanged amount to an account of a third-party.

And BTW both of them, as well as ANY other of many online financial websites handling money, like Moneybookers.com Neteller.com or even Paypal, a passport and a bank statement (or two) is sufficient ID.

I never seen any other financial service which refuses bank statements (thus excluding the half of the population which doesn't pay house bills) as AML verification. And I've signed up to a countless amount of financial services. All of them have to be compliant with AML laws, and yet none of them where as ridiculous as MtGox, and have such a customer-is-a-criminal-by-default-prove-you-are-not attitude.


Raoul Duke
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May 06, 2012, 03:35:20 PM
 #49

Didn't you knew that Mark offered himself and his company to be DEA snitches?
Or is it bitches instead of snitches? I always get confused... Roll Eyes

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/06/15/financial-bitcoin-idUKN1510930920110615

stochastic
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May 06, 2012, 08:35:54 PM
 #50

Didn't you knew that Mark offered himself and his company to be DEA snitches?
Or is it bitches instead of snitches? I always get confused... Roll Eyes

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/06/15/financial-bitcoin-idUKN1510930920110615

All financial institutes are snitches whether in the US or not as if they don't comply with US financial disclosures then they will be cut out of the US financial industry.  It may also be illegal under US law to tell a customer they are calling the police or submitting a SAR.

Hopefully the Bitcoinica/Intersango thing will eventually turn into a new full-fledge spot exchange.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
Raoul Duke
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May 06, 2012, 10:24:56 PM
 #51

Didn't you knew that Mark offered himself and his company to be DEA snitches?
Or is it bitches instead of snitches? I always get confused... Roll Eyes

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/06/15/financial-bitcoin-idUKN1510930920110615

All financial institutes are snitches whether in the US or not as if they don't comply with US financial disclosures then they will be cut out of the US financial industry.  It may also be illegal under US law to tell a customer they are calling the police or submitting a SAR.

Hopefully the Bitcoinica/Intersango thing will eventually turn into a new full-fledge spot exchange.

Don't hold your hopes for Intersango... Haven't you seen the thread where they locked the bitcoins of a dude who told them he wanted to withdraw the BTC to a silk road address?
Yeah, that was stupid of him Grin

doldgigger
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May 06, 2012, 11:22:41 PM
 #52

What some of you lack understanding of is that MT Gox not only has to abide by the laws of Japan, but also must abide by the laws of the nations of the account holders, the nation where the servers are located, every nation they have connected treaty(ies) with and do business in, and the nations that the data is passed through, else MT Gox would hold legal (civil and criminal) responsibility and liability.

This is not very accurate. While it is true that international business involves laws of multiple countries, they will by far not all be applicable.

A smart exchange service operator will carefully choose appropriate jurisdictions in order to provide reliable service to the customers.

In case you do not understand this, that is how the United States Department of Justice had arrested and extradition of the megaupload principles.

Red tape delays are part of the process.

They have not only the right, but the responsibility to protect themselves, their customers, and their ASSEtS.

As different testimonials on this forum show, they have no interest in protecting their customers. Even if they really chose some bad jurisdictions for running a business like this, they could have placed prominent warnings for their customers in order to avoid bad surprises like this one. I understand they make good money from not doing so (every frozen account means more money for them to invest), so it is not surprising (although also not very legitimate-looking) that they chose this route.

The bottom line is that you cannot expect a regular customer to understand the legal implications of running a bitcoin exchange. On the other hand, the exchange operator has to. But a good exchange operator will also do his best to keep his customers informed so they don't run into traps. A bad exchange operator will happily wait for customers to run into situations where there is some excuse for freezing funds.

19orEcoqXQ5bzKbzbAnbQrCkQC5ahSh4P9
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doldgigger
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May 06, 2012, 11:54:57 PM
 #53

Didn't you knew that Mark offered himself and his company to be DEA snitches?
Or is it bitches instead of snitches? I always get confused... Roll Eyes

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/06/15/financial-bitcoin-idUKN1510930920110615

1. Make agreements with as many agencies capable of threatening a person's livelihood.
2. Report any vague evidence you have about your customers to these agencies.
3. Hope for many customers to lose their freedom so they can't access their accounts anymore.
4. Reinvest their money.
5. Profit!

One may or may not like this way of doing business, but at least they could go without transaction fees by now, considering all the people with frozen funds, extremely long money transfer times and proactive engagement in new ventures targeted at creating hassle for more customers.

19orEcoqXQ5bzKbzbAnbQrCkQC5ahSh4P9
Feel free to PM me for consulting and development services.
doldgigger
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May 07, 2012, 12:02:27 AM
 #54

Didn't you knew that Mark offered himself and his company to be DEA snitches?
Or is it bitches instead of snitches? I always get confused... Roll Eyes

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/06/15/financial-bitcoin-idUKN1510930920110615

All financial institutes are snitches whether in the US or not as if they don't comply with US financial disclosures then they will be cut out of the US financial industry.  It may also be illegal under US law to tell a customer they are calling the police or submitting a SAR.

It may also be illegal under many countries' laws not to tell a customer that you transmit information about them to a foreign country.

19orEcoqXQ5bzKbzbAnbQrCkQC5ahSh4P9
Feel free to PM me for consulting and development services.
dirtydiego
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May 07, 2012, 01:11:28 AM
 #55

Didn't you knew that Mark offered himself and his company to be DEA snitches?
Or is it bitches instead of snitches? I always get confused... Roll Eyes

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/06/15/financial-bitcoin-idUKN1510930920110615

All financial institutes are snitches whether in the US or not as if they don't comply with US financial disclosures then they will be cut out of the US financial industry.  It may also be illegal under US law to tell a customer they are calling the police or submitting a SAR.

Hopefully the Bitcoinica/Intersango thing will eventually turn into a new full-fledge spot exchange.

He is just saving his ass from legal us problems, I don't see what's wrong with mark doing that? I do see it wrong for it taking as long as it is to get my withdraw funds available to me when I'm already a verified member soon headed to trusted member if they resolve my issues. Please address this issue on my wire transfer and withdraws pending, thank you. I know you guys had a long vacation with golden week, welcome back but please get to work. Thank you!
dirtydiego
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Raoul Duke
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May 07, 2012, 01:15:57 AM
 #56

At least Paypal returns frozen funds back after 180 days...

dirtydiego
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May 07, 2012, 01:17:24 AM
 #57

Didn't you knew that Mark offered himself and his company to be DEA snitches?
Or is it bitches instead of snitches? I always get confused... Roll Eyes

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/06/15/financial-bitcoin-idUKN1510930920110615

All financial institutes are snitches whether in the US or not as if they don't comply with US financial disclosures then they will be cut out of the US financial industry.  It may also be illegal under US law to tell a customer they are calling the police or submitting a SAR.

Hopefully the Bitcoinica/Intersango thing will eventually turn into a new full-fledge spot exchange.

Don't hold your hopes for Intersango... Haven't you seen the thread where they locked the bitcoins of a dude who told them he wanted to withdraw the BTC to a silk road address?
Yeah, that was stupid of him Grin

you're joking right lol and the award to the worlds dumbest criminal goes too....
dirtydiego
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May 07, 2012, 01:21:49 AM
 #58

At least Paypal returns frozen funds back after 180 days...

is mtgox really not returning funds? what happens to that money? although in mtgox defense it doesn't take much to be honest and submit your verification and for go these problems which I'm hoping will happen for me this week although I'm already verified.....
Raoul Duke
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May 07, 2012, 01:25:03 AM
 #59

Didn't you knew that Mark offered himself and his company to be DEA snitches?
Or is it bitches instead of snitches? I always get confused... Roll Eyes

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/06/15/financial-bitcoin-idUKN1510930920110615

All financial institutes are snitches whether in the US or not as if they don't comply with US financial disclosures then they will be cut out of the US financial industry.  It may also be illegal under US law to tell a customer they are calling the police or submitting a SAR.

Hopefully the Bitcoinica/Intersango thing will eventually turn into a new full-fledge spot exchange.

Don't hold your hopes for Intersango... Haven't you seen the thread where they locked the bitcoins of a dude who told them he wanted to withdraw the BTC to a silk road address?
Yeah, that was stupid of him Grin

you're joking right lol and the award to the worlds dumbest criminal goes too....

No, I'm not joking. That shit really happened lol award well deserved Grin

Nefario
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May 07, 2012, 03:36:26 AM
 #60

Heh, I like that, the LOL award.

PGP key id at pgp.mit.edu 0xA68F4B7C

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