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Author Topic: Christian BS  (Read 12294 times)
redrage
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October 06, 2014, 05:31:19 PM
 #61

You have to remember who wrote the testaments as well.

The bible is God's words written by man.  As we know even the most righteous man is not perfect and may have not written His words correctly, didn't understand, applied His words to the time or possibly used their position to self-promote.  Maybe the man who wrote the bit about stoning cheating women to death had a wife cheat on him and was bias?  Maybe God ment buy them a bag of weed and wish them luck.  Unlikely but I'm just saying the bit was written so many years ago the only way we'll know for sure is the apocalypse or we invent a time machine.

I believe in God, I believe there was a man named Jesus and that he was a child of God just like the rest of us.  I believe Jesus was a  good man with an overall good message.  I don't associate myself with the organized christian religion but really.. kinda what I am.
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October 06, 2014, 06:08:36 PM
 #62

You have to remember who wrote the testaments as well.

The bible is God's words written by man.  As we know even the most righteous man is not perfect and may have not written His words correctly, didn't understand, applied His words to the time or possibly used their position to self-promote.  Maybe the man who wrote the bit about stoning cheating women to death had a wife cheat on him and was bias?  Maybe God ment buy them a bag of weed and wish them luck.  Unlikely but I'm just saying the bit was written so many years ago the only way we'll know for sure is the apocalypse or we invent a time machine.

I believe in God, I believe there was a man named Jesus and that he was a child of God just like the rest of us.  I believe Jesus was a  good man with an overall good message.  I don't associate myself with the organized christian religion but really.. kinda what I am.

The guys who wrote the Bible were guided by God.

The Bible is called "God's Word." A lot of it is a record. It isn't something that God would condone if He wasn't almost forced into it. The record of the Bible is a recording of many things. Not all of these are of God's approval.

Here's what it is about. The devil invented destruction. But God is using even destruction to further His good goals. Because of this, it sometimes seems like God is doing evil. What God is doing is to use the destruction evil that the devil promotes, to further goodness and righteousness by using destruction to gradually destroy itself without harming goodness.

Doing something like this is so extremely difficult that most good people and Christians can't understand what God is doing. They don't have a clue about how such things could even be done. God is God. He can do it. Just be patient with Him. Trust Him and you will find that He has done it.

Smiley
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October 07, 2014, 06:33:27 PM
 #63

Quote
Exodus 21

These are the ordinances that you shall set before them:

2 When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt. 3If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master’s and he shall go out alone. 5But if the slave declares, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out a free person’, 6then his master shall bring him before God.* He shall be brought to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him for life.

7 When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8If she does not please her master, who designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed; he shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt unfairly with her. 9If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. 10If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish the food, clothing, or marital rights of the first wife.* 11And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out without debt, without payment of money.  

Those fucking Christians am I right? Tongue



Anyone who follows the Bible literally is an idiot because you have cultural relativism into play.  All of those teachings while relevant in the respective society that was taught in, should not be viewed literally in contemporary society. 


I agree, anybody who follows the Bible today is literally an idiot

Problem is, from a purely cultural standpoint, nobody knows that the God of the Bible is not real. And nobody knows that He is not the force behind the Bible being what it is today. If He is real, you are in big trouble if you mess with His Bible.

From a scientific standpoint - not the popular political science propaganda, rather real science - the God of the Bible has virtually been proven to exist. But if you listen to all the interpretations of science made by jokers who want to expel God from their lives, you won't get true science.

Smiley

Where can I find this "evidence"?

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October 07, 2014, 08:47:12 PM
 #64

Look, one that beleves in Allah says that Katholics are bad, vica-versa.
Fact is that they all did bad  things, and that will remain forever, people form they'r religions in a shape or form that fits them best.
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October 08, 2014, 02:56:00 AM
 #65

Look, one that beleves in Allah says that Katholics are bad, vica-versa.
Fact is that they all did bad  things, and that will remain forever, people form they'r religions in a shape or form that fits them best.

In the case of the religion of ancient Israel - the one that is the foundation for all Christianity - God formed the religion for the people. The Bible is record of both, the religion that God formed, and how the people reacted to it over the ages (about 1,500 years).

People are people. We see people from all over the world reacting to God's religion in all the same ways that the ancient Israel people did.

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October 09, 2014, 09:35:37 AM
 #66

Look, one that beleves in Allah says that Katholics are bad, vica-versa.
Fact is that they all did bad  things, and that will remain forever, people form they'r religions in a shape or form that fits them best.

In the case of the religion of ancient Israel - the one that is the foundation for all Christianity - God formed the religion for the people. The Bible is record of both, the religion that God formed, and how the people reacted to it over the ages (about 1,500 years).

People are people. We see people from all over the world reacting to God's religion in all the same ways that the ancient Israel people did.

Smiley

Nice try, Israel wasn't around until 1948

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October 09, 2014, 09:42:26 AM
 #67

Look, one that beleves in Allah says that Katholics are bad, vica-versa.
Fact is that they all did bad  things, and that will remain forever, people form they'r religions in a shape or form that fits them best.

In the case of the religion of ancient Israel - the one that is the foundation for all Christianity - God formed the religion for the people. The Bible is record of both, the religion that God formed, and how the people reacted to it over the ages (about 1,500 years).

People are people. We see people from all over the world reacting to God's religion in all the same ways that the ancient Israel people did.

Smiley

Nice try, Israel wasn't around until 1948

Oh, you're just trying to instigate some kind of word battle here.   Kiss Kiss Kiss
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October 09, 2014, 10:15:25 AM
 #68

Look, one that beleves in Allah says that Katholics are bad, vica-versa.
Fact is that they all did bad  things, and that will remain forever, people form they'r religions in a shape or form that fits them best.

In the case of the religion of ancient Israel - the one that is the foundation for all Christianity - God formed the religion for the people. The Bible is record of both, the religion that God formed, and how the people reacted to it over the ages (about 1,500 years).

People are people. We see people from all over the world reacting to God's religion in all the same ways that the ancient Israel people did.

Smiley

Nice try, Israel wasn't around until 1948

Oh, you're just trying to instigate some kind of word battle here.   Kiss Kiss Kiss

It's just that, religious folk love to chuck history and science out the window

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October 09, 2014, 05:40:50 PM
 #69

I've always wondered how Christians come to terms with books or sections lost, censored, and/or banned by early Catholics. The Bible's known to be incomplete, so how can someone take a leadership role of moral authority if the moral authority comes from an incomplete ruleset?

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October 09, 2014, 05:45:53 PM
 #70

This was originally written by Moses about 3,500 years ago. At the time, the common laws of all of the the lands included these things, things like slavery. People all over that area of the world (the Middle East) followed these basic laws and others.

The laws that Moses set up on the orders of God, were designed to be something that the people were familiar with, and were set up to form a theocracy type of government for Israel. It was also a government of family. The people of Israel at that time were very family minded, generally.

Throughout the centuries, people did as people do. Some of them followed the laws Moses set down. Some disobeyed. There is a strong common core of Jewish people who obey the laws Moses set down today. Note, there was/is no requirement to have slaves.

Thirty-five hundred years later, the basic laws of the world have changed so that slavery is formally outlawed. Yet, there are a lot of Arabs, especially in the Northwestern part of Africa, who still have slaves. Even the governments there condone it, but not officially, because of world views.

The word "slave" as written in many parts of the Old Testament was the word that we would use for "employee" or maybe "indentured servant." If a single man, today, had a female employee who lived at his house, he would not be required to marry her. In those ancient days, the honorable thing to do was to marry her... and it might be the honorable thing, now, if we were an honorable people.

If, back then, a female employee who was a wife got a different job, the husband might have to let her go as his employee. So, how do you treat a wife who was just an employee, but you were married to her (in name only) because it was the common law of the land and of the people? The laws Moses set up were a good way to assure that things were done fairly.

Smiley

Just a reflection of and for the times as it was written during the times Smiley

Quote
Age of Aries
(1800 B.C. - 360 AD)
The preceding Age of Taurus was a very matriarchal and feminine Age in which fertility cults flourished, humanity began to master agriculture and survival needs, freeing up time and energy to pursue beauty and the creation of cities and civilizations. Some form of Bull worship emerged throughout most of the cultures on the planet, and can be found in various mythologies. Slowly things begin to change, the Bull was slain, and a new archetypal symbol and pattern begins to surface: The Ram of Aries.
The Age of Aries was an Age of incredible change. Astrologically and archetypally, Aries has to do with the development of identity via the ego, the “I am” that each of us carries within. As we assess the changes that evolved during this Age, remember that whenever a new archetypal pattern begins to download into our planetary chakra system, it begins to transform us at a first chakra, tribal level first. So a new quest for individuality became urgent around 1800 BC, rendering humanity with the impulse to find a "tribal ego" in our first attempts to break free of the more "earthy" psychic fusion of the Age of Taurus.  
To identify with a singular, tribal affiliation and enact this, humans had to first consolidate their gods. Out of this impulse, monotheism was born. We see a single, dominant god emerge in most cultures--a god usually associated in some way with the Sun--and a shifting of the collective from matriarchal to patriarchal orientation in regard to issues of power and daily life. Tribal egos were born, making war a major theme of this Age–Aries is ruled by Mars, God of war, after all. (Aggressive assertion of the will is often required to break free from the past and become an individual, so perhaps this was a necessary step forward in our overall collective evolution.)
Harnessing the will became a focal point of humanity’s evolution and during this Age the "warrior of individuation" was born through many myths of the Mortal Hero.  The Mortal Hero takes it upon himself to individuate from the feminine pull of the Mother (Earth-Taurus) and venture out to discover his identity through trials of courage and ego development (all Aries themes!)
During this Age, the Greeks gave us the likes of Homer, Hesiod, and Aeschylus with their solar myths of individuation, filled with mortal heroes like Achilles, Hercules, Jason (who sought the Golden Fleece!), Theseus (a bona-fide bull-slayer!) and Odysseus.  Let’s also not forget Alexander the Great who, inspired by Homer, conquered most of the known world during this Age and was an embodiment of Aries’ drive, ambition, courage, will to power, pioneering spirit, and mythic vision.
To reintroduce the concept that each Astrological Age also manifests its opposite zodiacal sign as a balance (and key to the evolutionary phase at hand) let’s look at this concept shown clearly by our next mortal hero, Moses.
Moses is a Mortal Hero who is highly symbolic of the ego itself.  Like Moses, the ego can liberate us from enslavement--to our past and our unconscious fusion to the mass psyche. It can birth an identity that brings us to the very edge of the “Promised Land” of the soul. But at the end of the journey, the ego cannot enter this Promised Land (a hint at the next Age, Pisces.) The Soul can indeed enter the ego, (a hint at the Age of Aquarius) and therein we find both the limitations, and ultimate fulfillment of ego development.
Still, Moses did much more than just liberate his people from Egypt. Like Alexander the Great, in his heroic quest, Moses was the Aries’ epitome of courage, loyalty, vision, determination, leadership, and faith in his unseen one god: Yahweh (Self).  In condemning the worship of the golden calf (Taurus), he symbolically declared a new age had begun. An age that needed something to guide human ego development, something besides aggression and war – in which he gave the balance and polar opposite to Aries, the Libran law of the Ten Commandments. Interestingly, Moses also gave instructions in the building of the Ark of the Covenant that included a covering for the tabernacle made of ram’s skin, and a new altar with four horns at its corners.
As the Age of Aries progressed, and ego development began to move from tribal to individual, people became more cognizant of their own power and capacity to "reason" that perhaps war and aggression weren’t the best ways to engage with the development of individual identity. After all, what good was establishing an identity (Aries) if we couldn't relate it to others (Libra) without getting killed! We were in dire need of the archetypal energy of Libra, which deals in part with relating peacefully in a spirit of equanimity with each other.


Compare to other cycles:
http://www.ohotto.com/features/astrological_ages_tour.asp

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October 09, 2014, 05:50:55 PM
 #71

Look, one that beleves in Allah says that Katholics are bad, vica-versa.
Fact is that they all did bad  things, and that will remain forever, people form they'r religions in a shape or form that fits them best.

Quran actually has a couple of quotes saying that the bearer of the cross is your friend, because he believes in the same god and is the nation of the book

Quote
"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).

Quote
"...and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (5:82).

Quote
"O you who believe! Be helpers of God -- as Jesus the son of Mary said to the Disciples, 'Who will be my helpers in (the work of) God?' Said the disciples, 'We are God's helpers!' Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved. But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed" (61:14).

however, this is being ignored by mujahedeens everywhere from Bosnia to Iraq

and there's still stuff like this though

Quote
"If only they [i.e. Christians] had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course, but many of them follow a course that is evil" (5:66).

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October 09, 2014, 07:33:37 PM
 #72

Anyone who follows the Bible literally is an idiot because you have cultural relativism into play.  All of those teachings while relevant in the respective society that was taught in, should not be viewed literally in contemporary society. 

That's basically saying that things that were written into the bible were considered moral by the people they were written, even if they were "inspired by god." But with time, we as people realized ourselves that those things are not actually moral, despite the bible and "god" telling us they are. So if we can figure out what's more moral than what god tells us, and are rejecting his version of morality already, then why do we need god?

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October 09, 2014, 09:15:29 PM
 #73

So if we can figure out what's more moral than what god tells us, and are rejecting his version of morality already, then why do we need god?

Morality =/= existence, one might posit. I, for one, see God as a reconciliation of the paradox of (non)existence.

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October 09, 2014, 10:54:24 PM
 #74

Why is that a paradox? Or rather, what is the paradox?

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October 09, 2014, 10:59:53 PM
 #75

Why is that a paradox? Or rather, what is the paradox?

I suppose it's only a paradox if you consider it a paradox. I myself as a young sapling always wondered why we exist.

this is an interesting link I went to when spurred by your question:
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/the-paradox-of-existence.119/

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acs267
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October 09, 2014, 11:05:54 PM
 #76

The thing I don't get is, why some Christians don't take the Old Testament seriously when you bring up the errors (Such as rules for when you're able to rape, diet, etc.) of the Bible. The New Testament obviously has many, too, but most people poke over those. When questioned about the Old Testament, some will brush it off and say, "That's why it's old."

I thought God wanted all of his word taken seriously?
----

Anyway, guy's right:

Anyone who follows the Bible literally is an idiot because you have cultural relativism into play.  All of those teachings while relevant in the respective society that was taught in, should not be viewed literally in contemporary society. 

That's basically saying that things that were written into the bible were considered moral by the people they were written, even if they were "inspired by god." But with time, we as people realized ourselves that those things are not actually moral, despite the bible and "god" telling us they are. So if we can figure out what's more moral than what god tells us, and are rejecting his version of morality already, then why do we need god?

We of course wouldn't kill a family and the last person left would become our slave. In those days, they thought it was of course moral.
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October 09, 2014, 11:38:38 PM
 #77

Look at the profound thoughts of Lethn in all their glory. Next think you know he'll be walking on water, while simultaneously turning it to wine.

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October 09, 2014, 11:43:21 PM
 #78

Look at the profound thoughts of Lethn in all their glory. Next think you know he'll be walking on water, while simultaneously turning it to wine.

Fortunately, unlike Jesus, I'm not arrogant enough to think that I can ignore the laws of physics.
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October 10, 2014, 01:00:48 AM
 #79

Look at the profound thoughts of Lethn in all their glory. Next think you know he'll be walking on water, while simultaneously turning it to wine.

Fortunately, unlike Jesus, I'm not arrogant enough to think that I can ignore the laws of physics.

To quote Aesop Rock, you've got alot of nerve.  Undecided

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October 10, 2014, 01:04:57 AM
 #80

Christianity today isn't what Christianity was 2000 years ago. Most Christians don't want to admit this, but wouldn't adhere to "Real Christianity." Much of it's irrelevant if not outright counter to ideology held by most of today's modern Christians. Instead, it's a set of rules guided by men, often at conferences where they talk about which rules to ignore in the Bible like it's a US attorney general talking about which rules of the Constitution to ignore, whose rules are relayed (either in these conferences or through television/pamphlets/whatever) by pastors/deacons/whatever to members of this voluntary government. This is true of all religions I'm aware of.

-So when they talk about their religious customs or opinions extrapolated from any religious text, I think it's worth respecting insofar as it's worth respecting that they willfully submit to a set of rules which generally command they act in a way the rest of us would consider moral. Geography-based, non-voluntary governments aren't generally accepted to enforce "non-pragmatic morality" (... .... though this thought seems to be eroding every day), so it's reasonable to have "gap coverage" for people who want a more comprehensive set of rules we "all" agree on. The value of religion, though, erodes dramatically if they don't command a high market share with regards to the adherent market.

-But it should be sold that way, these days, I think, if it's to be honest. It should just be a kind of honor code, and if you want to have a bumper sticker saying you adhere to the set of rules, and even if you try to "convert" people to accept your honor code -- great! At least everyone else can know what to expect. ... I'm not totally put off to the idea that honor codes should exist... but the books of most religions are far too long, and in archaic language. The Bible, I'd guess, could probably be compressed to ~20 pages at most.

We all want these kinds of rulesets to some extent, I think. Some want the exhaustive Bible list (or just the 10 Commandments), some want the exhaustive list in the Koran... some have their own individual codes (or as they interpret the NAP)... some go by mafia codes... some go by law. If we could just all agree on what is and isn't the behavior of an asshole, I'd guess there'd be no conflict.
Actually, we only keep the moral rules from the OT.

In our beliefs Jesus made a new covenant on the cross, so the OT is... outdated.

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