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Author Topic: [ANN][SEED] SeedCoin | New Road Map  (Read 182011 times)
Wheezy-
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October 07, 2014, 03:01:46 PM
 #681

Do staking coins remove PoW blocks from the mining phase?

Yes. No more blocks can be mined after block 10100. Any blocks staked before block 10100 displace what would have otherwise been a mined block.

What does that mean?

Since it's a shared stake (POS) and mined (POW) blockchain, for each block that is found by staking, that is one less block that can be mined. It then reduces the total number of mined coins by 0.1 per block that is found by staking.

The more coins staked, the fewer mined, the greater % of total supply you have with your staking coins.

Had the ICO been more productive, and 1000 ICO coins sold, it would be a very different world for miners and be much more difficult for them to find blocks assuming those 1000 coins were all staking.

Thanks for the explanation. I guess blocks found from staking explains some of the discrepancy I'm sensing in estimated and actual mining rewards. My next question was going to be: How many coins were bought during the ICO? I just got in on this yesterday with mining so all my skin in the game is going to come through mining. I'm hoping to mine a nice amount for the growth period.

There were about ~68 ICO coins, with a potential 1000 mined coins.
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adjiadjo
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October 07, 2014, 03:04:21 PM
 #682

okay wallet looking good now ,
gonna close it and open it again when the fiesta begin (block 10101 - 20100)
 Grin

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wiser
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October 07, 2014, 03:05:39 PM
 #683

There were about ~68 ICO coins, with a potential 1000 mined coins.

So... this is going to be a scarce coin? Because you still will only be able to mine 1000 coins (that doesn't seem to be impacted by number purchased during ICO)

But then, those 68 ICO coins plus 1000 mined coins (assuming they all get mined), if they all stake during the growth period at 269% a day, (and I'm just estimating here based on this 1 seed could produce 1000 coins during growth period statistic I saw earlier), the total supply would be capped at 1,068,000 SEED?

Am I understanding this correctly?

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October 07, 2014, 03:11:38 PM
 #684

Had the ICO been more productive, and 1000 ICO coins sold, it would be a very different world for miners and be much more difficult for them to find blocks assuming those 1000 coins were all staking.

Exactly. Most of the pre-ico testing had a significant number of coins from the beginning. I think the fewest that I tested before it became clear that the ICO was going to produce so few coins was 500. Practically all of the staking issues we're having are due to the limited number of coins in circulation - though to be fair... I honestly didn't take into consideration how many miners wouldn't be able to accumulate more than a seed, and that's a tremendous oversight I'm sorry about. I thought people would just buy what they couldn't mine.

The new code will effectively make 0.001 seed as easy to stake as 1 seed has been up until now. Which means it's really, really difficult, like practically impossible to do. But staking 0.01 is reasonably possible, however still very difficult. And people that do have 1 or more coins will have a 1000 times easier time staking as well, so people with small amounts of coins will have to compete with that. The code was altered so people with fractions of a coin could compete for a stake, not to give them any serious advantage. With that said, there is a small advantage for people with small amounts of coins, as weight will not be calculated from 0 anymore, it will be calculated from .9 (which will still report as 0 until you reach 1). That means people with a small number of coins will reach a weight of 1 (and thus be eligible to stake) a lot earlier than they ordinarily would.

tl:dr; Staking wouldn't be so damn hard if more coins were bought from the ICO. Everyone's going to stake 1000x easier soon though.

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October 07, 2014, 03:14:48 PM
 #685

There were about ~68 ICO coins, with a potential 1000 mined coins.

So... this is going to be a scarce coin? Because you still will only be able to mine 1000 coins (that doesn't seem to be impacted by number purchased during ICO)

But then, those 68 ICO coins plus 1000 mined coins (assuming they all get mined), if they all stake during the growth period at 269% a day, (and I'm just estimating here based on this 1 seed could produce 1000 coins during growth period statistic I saw earlier), the total supply would be capped at 1,068,000 SEED?

Am I understanding this correctly?

It's 269% added on top of the coin you already have, so 1 coin becomes 3.69 on day 1. By day 7, one coin grows into 9315 coins.

I'm not sure how that last day is going to go, and if everyone trying to stake will be able to get in their last staking turn before it becomes 16% annual. ie. what if you stake your coins at block 10099, then it takes 24 hours for those coins to mature, are you going to get it your last day's worth of growth staking. There is 9999 growth blocks, which is 6.944 days if each block is exactly 1 min.

Maybe cryptzo can comment, as anyone not getting the last days growth misses out a lot.
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October 07, 2014, 03:16:13 PM
 #686

tl:dr; Staking wouldn't be so damn hard if more coins were bought from the ICO. Everyone's going to stake 1000x easier soon though.

And that happens in around 9 hours--staking being easier for smaller balances?

Based on that week growth period of the coin, followed by the various tiers of annual interest over the next five years, what would you say is the highest amount of SEED that will be in circulation in the next year, two years, five years?

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October 07, 2014, 03:18:22 PM
 #687

tl:dr; Staking wouldn't be so damn hard if more coins were bought from the ICO. Everyone's going to stake 1000x easier soon though.

And that happens in around 9 hours--staking being easier for smaller balances?

Based on that week growth period of the coin, followed by the various tiers of annual interest over the next five years, what would you say is the highest amount of SEED that will be in circulation in the next year, two years, five years?

Oh, so it's closer to one seed producing 10,000 new seed. So, that would bring my previous estimate up to 10,680,000 for a supply cap, but that is not counting the 16 percent annual interest that follows. I just asked in another post for an estimate of the supply cap for this coin.

meccoin4me
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October 07, 2014, 03:19:26 PM
 #688

one quastion , i downloaded the new wallet , it is staking but the stakingbutton is not green en i have to restart the wallet because i made a .conf , is it ok to close the wallet while staking??

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1155319.0  DELTACREDITS , great coin , great idea behind
cryptzo
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October 07, 2014, 03:21:31 PM
 #689

There were about ~68 ICO coins, with a potential 1000 mined coins.

So... this is going to be a scarce coin? Because you still will only be able to mine 1000 coins (that doesn't seem to be impacted by number purchased during ICO)

But then, those 68 ICO coins plus 1000 mined coins (assuming they all get mined), if they all stake during the growth period at 269% a day, (and I'm just estimating here based on this 1 seed could produce 1000 coins during growth period statistic I saw earlier), the total supply would be capped at 1,068,000 SEED?

Am I understanding this correctly?

Sumgye did the math on it, and it turned out not to be perfectly accurate when we were testing. If everyone stakes during the growth period (and the staking continues steadily for 7 days) then there's the potential for about 10m coins.

But there's a lot of variables at work here. A lot less than 1000 coins could be mined once staking gets going here later. There's a lot of things that could happen during the growth period that will effect the number of coins that will be produced (the sheer number of which would surprise pretty much everyone here. The number of scenarios I've experienced over the last two weeks of testing is insane. I honestly have no idea what will happen with the full blown launch with so many people. It's a grand social experiment, as well as a test of the staking system itself.

Obviously I have plans beyond the growth period, but the mining period and the growth period is where all my attention is at the moment. And I'm absolutely exhausted. Ha!

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October 07, 2014, 03:22:59 PM
 #690

tl:dr; Staking wouldn't be so damn hard if more coins were bought from the ICO. Everyone's going to stake 1000x easier soon though.

And that happens in around 9 hours--staking being easier for smaller balances?

Based on that week growth period of the coin, followed by the various tiers of annual interest over the next five years, what would you say is the highest amount of SEED that will be in circulation in the next year, two years, five years?

Oh, so it's closer to one seed producing 10,000 new seed. So, that would bring my previous estimate up to 10,680,000 for a supply cap, but that is not counting the 16 percent annual interest that follows. I just asked in another post for an estimate of the supply cap for this coin.

That is true only if every single seed mined and bought in the ICO is removed from exchanges and in their wallet for the entire staking period.

If any coins are moved or left on exchanges (they need a new 24hr maturity period), then that drastically lowers the overall supply. My guesstimate is in the 7M coin range total supply, but who knows. It all depends on what prices the coins fetch on exchanges and whether people are willing to risk the move and sale.
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October 07, 2014, 03:24:37 PM
 #691

one quastion , i downloaded the new wallet , it is staking but the stakingbutton is not green en i have to restart the wallet because i made a .conf , is it ok to close the wallet while staking??

I'm not sure what this staking issue is where the button isn't turning green. That confuses me. I have seen a bug where the button doesn't turn back to grey after you do successfully stake. Anyway, that's just a curiosity I'm looking into. Nothing important.


Anyway, yes you  can close the wallet and it wont hurt your ability to stake later. But you can only stake if you have your wallet open. While the wallet is closed your coins do get older though, and the older your coins are, the easier they will be to stake.

zzzman20
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October 07, 2014, 03:35:20 PM
 #692

Wallet is being slow updating now
cryptzo
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October 07, 2014, 03:36:31 PM
 #693

tl:dr; Staking wouldn't be so damn hard if more coins were bought from the ICO. Everyone's going to stake 1000x easier soon though.

And that happens in around 9 hours--staking being easier for smaller balances?

Based on that week growth period of the coin, followed by the various tiers of annual interest over the next five years, what would you say is the highest amount of SEED that will be in circulation in the next year, two years, five years?

Oh, so it's closer to one seed producing 10,000 new seed. So, that would bring my previous estimate up to 10,680,000 for a supply cap, but that is not counting the 16 percent annual interest that follows. I just asked in another post for an estimate of the supply cap for this coin.

That is true only if every single seed mined and bought in the ICO is removed from exchanges and in their wallet for the entire staking period.

If any coins are moved or left on exchanges (they need a new 24hr maturity period), then that drastically lowers the overall supply. My guesstimate is in the 7M coin range total supply, but who knows. It all depends on what prices the coins fetch on exchanges and whether people are willing to risk the move and sale.

There's even factors I haven't mentioned. The growing coinbase naturally makes the blocks go by faster. Imagine a coin that gets mined with 3x more hash every day. The difficulty has to keep up with that. In testing, the first couple of days were always a little sluggish, so it balanced out. With the boost to the weight system I just implemented, that day 1 sluggishness isn't too terribly apparent. So it's possible that all the growth blocks could be mined sooner.

I tried to predict the future a little bit with the code, trying to reduce this effect and make sure we got the full 7 days by stepping the weight boost down as the end of the growth period draws near, but I don't know how well it's going to work in this real world scenario. I didn't have enough time to test for that.


It's important to understand, your ability to stake works in 24 hour periods, it's time based. 1440 blocks is just the number of blocks that there is expected to be in a 24 hour period of time. If 1440 blocks go by in 20 hours, people that staked early will still have to wait another 4 hours before they can stake again. The staking system is all clock time based, but the growth period is implemented in block time. All staking coins behave that way. In truth, the growth period is just a really, really high interest staking period. Insanely high. That's why there had to be so few coins. Too many, and I'd be trying to stake with a doge sized coinbase.


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October 07, 2014, 03:38:52 PM
 #694

I'm really glad I found this coin. I find the growth strategy very interesting and potentially very profitable.

A question about how staking works: Is there a certain number of confirmations needed for coins to be mature? 1440? And then, once coins "stake," do they then need another 1440 blocks before they "stake" again?

I'm really looking forward to that experience.

In the mean time, gonna mine all I can now Smiley

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October 07, 2014, 03:40:04 PM
 #695

It looks like Suprnova and my wallet are on different blocks. Is suprnova on a fork?

If you can go to help > debug window and type

getblock 0000000000179544458a043537faffc756a24748e8085faab1a6ccb73660eb4a

and not get an error, you're on the right block.

Supernova doesn't look like it's on the wrong fork to me. Also, a good way to check is to go into your debug and type getinfo - if proof of work is very low (less than 50), you're probably on a fork.

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October 07, 2014, 03:42:17 PM
 #696

I'm really glad I found this coin. I find the growth strategy very interesting and potentially very profitable.

A question about how staking works: Is there a certain number of confirmations needed for coins to be mature? 1440? And then, once coins "stake," do they then need another 1440 blocks before they "stake" again?

I'm really looking forward to that experience.

In the mean time, gonna mine all I can now Smiley

120 confirmations - you will have to wait 24 hours from the time they actually staked to be able to stake them again. The maturity is actually measured in hours, but 1440 blocks is the target number of blocks for a single day, so it's going to be roughly correct. Most people think in terms of blocks around here, so I normally just say 1440 blocks - but my latest round of testing has shown that it isnt' likely to be so clean cut as that.

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October 07, 2014, 03:43:53 PM
 #697

Not updating the last 367 blocks

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October 07, 2014, 03:44:54 PM
 #698

It's important to understand, your ability to stake works in 24 hour periods, it's time based. 1440 blocks is just the number of blocks that there is expected to be in a 24 hour period of time. If 1440 blocks go by in 20 hours, people that staked early will still have to wait another 4 hours before they can stake again. The staking system is all clock time based, but the growth period is implemented in block time. All staking coins behave that way. In truth, the growth period is just a really, really high interest staking period. Insanely high. That's why there had to be so few coins. Too many, and I'd be trying to stake with a doge sized coinbase.

So then back to one of my previous questions, as you can only stake in 24hr time periods, and the growth period is by blocks, ending with block 20100, what if the blocks are found faster during growth and we hit block 20100 in 6.5 days. Are the people still waiting to get their final day 7 stake completed, since it had not been 24 hours yet for their coins to mature, out of luck?
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October 07, 2014, 03:47:34 PM
 #699

ok i restart the wallet with a new config but now the wallet does not sync anymore

anyone have more suggestions to fix ??


edit : it is fixed now

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1155319.0  DELTACREDITS , great coin , great idea behind
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October 07, 2014, 03:49:04 PM
 #700

It's important to understand, your ability to stake works in 24 hour periods, it's time based. 1440 blocks is just the number of blocks that there is expected to be in a 24 hour period of time. If 1440 blocks go by in 20 hours, people that staked early will still have to wait another 4 hours before they can stake again. The staking system is all clock time based, but the growth period is implemented in block time. All staking coins behave that way. In truth, the growth period is just a really, really high interest staking period. Insanely high. That's why there had to be so few coins. Too many, and I'd be trying to stake with a doge sized coinbase.

So then back to one of my previous questions, as you can only stake in 24hr time periods, and the growth period is by blocks, ending with block 20100, what if the blocks are found faster during growth and we hit block 20100 in 6.5 days. Are the people still waiting to get their final day 7 stake completed, since it had not been 24 hours yet for their coins to mature, out of luck?

I'd like to know this too. Since that last staking would be the most significant, it would be kind of a bummer to miss out on it. On the other hand, if the missing out was evenly distributed, it would just mean a smaller total supply cap, which could translate into better exchange prices. So it may be a wash.

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