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Author Topic: Atheism BS  (Read 5920 times)
cryptodevil
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September 25, 2014, 07:37:23 PM
 #41

Except that Atheism is not a religion, hence the name.

It is the absence of theism. Theists are the ones proposing the existence of something for which they have no evidence, that's called playing pretend *real* hard.

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September 25, 2014, 07:47:54 PM
 #42

If you simply remember that atheism is a religion, and Karl Marx's version is simply a branch of the religion of atheism, everything fits into place like it should.

Smiley

Atheism existed long before Karl Marx

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September 25, 2014, 08:11:15 PM
 #43

Except that Atheism is not a religion, hence the name.

It is the absence of theism. Theists are the ones proposing the existence of something for which they have no evidence, that's called playing pretend *real* hard.

Atheism is defined by people who are hiding part of the definition. Atheism IS a religion.  Smiley

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September 25, 2014, 08:12:36 PM
 #44

If you simply remember that atheism is a religion, and Karl Marx's version is simply a branch of the religion of atheism, everything fits into place like it should.

Smiley

Atheism existed long before Karl Marx

Just like the tree exists before the branch (does it?).  Smiley

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September 25, 2014, 08:16:54 PM
 #45

Atheism is defined by people who are hiding part of the definition. Atheism IS a religion.  Smiley

You do know that simply repeating the same erroneous assertion isn't going to eventually make it correct, right?

Courtesy of the late and most definitely great Carl Sagan:

A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage"
Suppose (I'm following a group therapy approach by the psychologist Richard Franklin) I seriously make such an assertion to you.  Surely you'd want to check it out, see for yourself.  There have been innumerable stories of dragons over the centuries, but no real evidence. What an opportunity!

"Show me," you say.  I lead you to my garage.  You look inside and see a ladder, empty paint cans, an old tricycle -- but no dragon.

"Where's the dragon?" you ask.

"Oh, she's right here," I reply, waving vaguely.  "I neglected to mention that she's an invisible dragon."

You propose spreading flour on the floor of the garage to capture the dragon's footprints.

"Good idea," I say, "but this dragon floats in the air."

Then you'll use an infrared sensor to detect the invisible fire.

"Good idea, but the invisible fire is also heatless."

You'll spray-paint the dragon and make her visible.

"Good idea, but she's an incorporeal dragon and the paint won't stick."  And so on.  I counter every physical test you propose with a special explanation of why it won't work.

Now, what's the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all?  If there's no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say that my dragon exists?  Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true.  Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder.  What I'm asking you to do comes down to believing, in the absence of evidence, on my say-so.  The only thing you've really learned from my insistence that there's a dragon in my garage is that something funny is going on inside my head.  You'd wonder, if no physical tests apply, what convinced me.  The possibility that it was a dream or a hallucination would certainly enter your mind.  But then, why am I taking it so seriously?  Maybe I need help.  At the least, maybe I've seriously underestimated human fallibility.  Imagine that, despite none of the tests being successful, you wish to be scrupulously open-minded.  So you don't outright reject the notion that there's a fire-breathing dragon in my garage.  You merely put it on hold.  Present evidence is strongly against it, but if a new body of data emerge you're prepared to examine it and see if it convinces you.  Surely it's unfair of me to be offended at not being believed; or to criticize you for being stodgy and unimaginative -- merely because you rendered the Scottish verdict of "not proved."

Imagine that things had gone otherwise.  The dragon is invisible, all right, but footprints are being made in the flour as you watch.  Your infrared detector reads off-scale.  The spray paint reveals a jagged crest bobbing in the air before you.  No matter how skeptical you might have been about the existence of dragons -- to say nothing about invisible ones -- you must now acknowledge that there's something here, and that in a preliminary way it's consistent with an invisible, fire-breathing dragon.

Now another scenario: Suppose it's not just me.  Suppose that several people of your acquaintance, including people who you're pretty sure don't know each other, all tell you that they have dragons in their garages -- but in every case the evidence is maddeningly elusive.  All of us admit we're disturbed at being gripped by so odd a conviction so ill-supported by the physical evidence.  None of us is a lunatic.  We speculate about what it would mean if invisible dragons were really hiding out in garages all over the world, with us humans just catching on.  I'd rather it not be true, I tell you.  But maybe all those ancient European and Chinese myths about dragons weren't myths at all.

Gratifyingly, some dragon-size footprints in the flour are now reported.  But they're never made when a skeptic is looking.  An alternative explanation presents itself.  On close examination it seems clear that the footprints could have been faked.  Another dragon enthusiast shows up with a burnt finger and attributes it to a rare physical manifestation of the dragon's fiery breath.  But again, other possibilities exist.  We understand that there are other ways to burn fingers besides the breath of invisible dragons.  Such "evidence" -- no matter how important the dragon advocates consider it -- is far from compelling.  Once again, the only sensible approach is tentatively to reject the dragon hypothesis, to be open to future physical data, and to wonder what the cause might be that so many apparently sane and sober people share the same strange delusion.

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September 25, 2014, 08:18:40 PM
 #46

So what? We are talking about the personality, not the body. I linked to 40 cases; how many of them were you familiar with before posting that garbage?

You sound angry, yet your reply is absent reason or objective evidence, merely obfuscation of the original claim by trying to redefine it by another name and talking about links which clearly are not able to withstand critical analysis otherwise they would be global news.

Clearly your claim towards the 'personality' existing after death references dualism, whatever you want to label the same thing that is also known as the human 'soul'

There's no reason to believe you existed before this life and there is no reason to believe you will exist after it, either. If you existed before this life, but have no memory of it, then the 'you' that has grown from birth and identified yourself with all that you have experienced, would not be the 'you' that is often claimed preceded this life, rendering assertion towards sentience prior to this existence absurd as you might as well be talking about someone else who existed prior to this life.
I am frustrated that you consistently bring up so much irrelevant information.

Again, here are 40 documented cases for which the fraud explanation fails to stand:
http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

You should not prematurely make a conclusion prior to seeing the evidence. The evidence will always outweigh any presumption, no matter how well-justified.

Here are some cases to start off our discussion; I hope you will provide an adequate explanation that takes into account all of the facts, as would be expected in any investigation:
http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75/case56_soule-soul.pdf
http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/case19_policeman-painter.pdf

Proofs converging from many and varying classes of phenomena unite in establishing the survival hypothesis. The Physical Universe Hypothesis does not address any of this anomalous phenomena.

I found some of your general concerns addressed here:
http://atransc.org/theory/survival_hypothesis.htm

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bl4kjaguar
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September 25, 2014, 08:19:43 PM
 #47

Atheism is an element of many, if not most religions.


"Many, perhaps most, religions are a-theisms in that they do not include a god-concept at all. Surprisingly, atheism is not the opposite or lack, let alone the enemy, of religion but is the most common form of religion."
--Chapter 1

That does not mean atheism is a belief. It is a position which stakes a claim on the god-question.

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September 25, 2014, 08:25:22 PM
 #48

You guys are so lucky that Karl Marx was an atheist. You wouldn't know the evils of the adulterous association of church and state otherwise.


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bl4kjaguar
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September 25, 2014, 08:49:30 PM
 #49

You guys are so lucky that Karl Marx was an atheist. You wouldn't know the evils of the adulterous association of church and state otherwise.



Man still doesn't recognize the evils of bank and state and the atheistic materialism that underlies that system of enslavement.

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awesome31312
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September 25, 2014, 09:19:42 PM
 #50

You guys are so lucky that Karl Marx was an atheist. You wouldn't know the evils of the adulterous association of church and state otherwise.



Man still doesn't recognize the evils of bank and state and the atheistic materialism that underlies that system of enslavement.

Atheistic materialism? You mean like the church refusing to pay taxes?

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bl4kjaguar
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September 25, 2014, 11:34:56 PM
 #51


Atheistic materialism? You mean like the church refusing to pay taxes?

I am talking about the internationalist bankers (money-changers) who set up the tax-slavery system in the first place. Are you making the connection?

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bl4kjaguar
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September 25, 2014, 11:42:33 PM
 #52

Theists are the ones proposing the existence of something for which they have no evidence, that's called playing pretend *real* hard.

You pretend there exists no evidence for survival.

Actually, all humanists (and presumably all atheists) necessarily dis-believe the survival hypothesis, in spite of the evidence. This means that they are prejudiced, not rational.

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September 26, 2014, 01:03:46 AM
 #53

Finally! A thread about NOTHING. Let's discuss NOTHING then!
Pick quotes of Atheists doesn't quite add up to nothing, as those quotes are usually not linked to religion or widely or even accept between Atheists.

Let me quote the Atheist Bible/Quran/Torah (Yes, we have a 3-in-one book):

Quote







.

Those words are just amazing, aren't they? They sum pretty much everything G.O.D. told humanity so far.

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bl4kjaguar
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September 26, 2014, 01:18:50 AM
 #54

Could someone answer this question?

"Presumably all atheists are humanists, since what else could they be?"

I guess the answer is "nothing".
 Wink

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September 26, 2014, 06:56:36 AM
 #55

I am talking about the internationalist bankers (money-changers) who set up the tax-slavery system in the first place. Are you making the connection?

Ah so these international banker conspirators are atheists now? Is it finally time, after 2000+ years, for the Jews to have a break from this accusation, in favor or atheists, in the minds of conspiracy theorists?
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September 26, 2014, 08:19:22 AM
 #56

I am talking about the internationalist bankers (money-changers) who set up the tax-slavery system in the first place. Are you making the connection?

Ah so these international banker conspirators are atheists now? Is it finally time, after 2000+ years, for the Jews to have a break from this accusation, in favor or atheists, in the minds of conspiracy theorists?
That's a loaded question; let me ask you a better one:

Do you recognize the evils of the adulterous association of bank and state and the atheistic materialism that underlies that system of enslavement?

Do you think any of this would have happened if Zionist bankers had respect for the golden rule?

It is so strange to me that any reference to such bankers is sneeringly disposed of as 'conspiracy theory' or 'anti-semitism', given the history of central banks.

The Rothschilds have made huge sums of money since they began lending to royalty, particularly for wars which they themselves influenced or even started. They then moved on to making even more money by setting up central banks in each country.

He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here...
Ezekiel 8:6

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September 26, 2014, 08:45:40 AM
 #57

I am particularly appalled that research in the US showed atheists to be less trusted than rapists.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/in-atheists-we-distrust/

Yes, 'tis indeed a stunning notion to comprehend the extent of theist conditioning in demonising the absence of theist belief in a person to the degree that a convicted rapist would be considered more trustworthy.

Quote from: bl4kjaguar
It is a position which stakes a claim on the god-question.
No. Theism is about staking a claim on a wildly speculative proposition, atheism is simply the act of not accepting that proposition as worthy of consideration because it is entirely absent reason or evidence.

I don't have to go around describing myself as 'Aunicornist' if I do not believe in unicorns. It is not considered a 'stake' being claimed if I reject your unfounded assertions towards an invisible pink teapot orbiting Mars, or any number of arbitrarily dreamed up concepts our imagination is capable of.

I am not surprised by the degree of intellectual dishonesty theists end up posting in their frothing nonsense defending their subjective beliefs, or attacking our lack of same, after all, they have been conditioned to live in a near-constant, and stressful, state of denial and dishonesty, within their own minds to the extent they believe the gilded cage their thoughts live in is a wondrous place to be, absent belief that it is even possible to find any happiness outside of the abusive relationship they maintain with an all-powerful imaginary patriarch who lives in their heads. 'He' loves them and through all the pain and suffering, they know that 'He' only lets it happen because he loves them so very very much.

Back in biblical times there were plenty of 'Messiahs', 'Prophets' and such, declaring themselves to either be god, of god, or possessing of some unique insight into god, along with vast numbers of ill-educated people who readily latched on to anyone who could claim to explain the meaning of life to them. 'Jesus' wasn't special, he was just another guy with a messianic complex, albeit his tended to be more about loving each other, much the way that, say, someone like David Ike is today, as being the resolution to all our problems.

Trouble is, Jesus wasn't expected to die, at the very least his delusional followers thought he'd be coming back to finish the job of defeating the Roman oppressors. Oppressors not because they were Christian, by the way, oppressors because they were not Roman. Christianity does tend to paint itself as the ever-suffering victim, claiming they were persecuted by the Romans but there is no evidence to suggest the Romans were picking on them any more than they picked on anyone else who wasn't a Roman.

Still, never let facts get in the way of a good story, especially one that can persuade people to buy in to your scheme promising 'ultimate reward' . . . after death.






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September 26, 2014, 09:49:04 AM
 #58

Sometimes Atheism is found in people that couldn't find anything else.
Maybe they just didn't find his spiritual way.
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September 26, 2014, 10:22:48 AM
 #59

^^^ That is such a tired and empty sentiment.

Most modern atheists were raised in an environment which conditioned them to believe in some ooky-spooky paranormal 'spiritual' dualism, those that were brought up with parents who chose to maintain an intellectual honesty to their child-raising are a fortunate few.

Most modern atheists are former conditioned theists who persistently sought to challenge the fallacious argument and dishonesty employed by theism because theist belief is incapable of rationally explaining the world around them and is generally in constant conflict with its own claimed values and contradictions. This often achieved through a long process of investigation, evaluation and eventual rejection. Not because they couldn't 'find' god, but because the argument being used to suggest such were clearly dishonest or delusional.

We are more than able to chart the psychosocial development of the establishment of belief systems and their related symbolism and ritual, so in that you, as a theist, can happily dismiss Thor and Zeuss and Ra or the thousands and thousands of gods claimed by theism throughout human history and even currently, why would you choose, then, to ignore the fact that your theism is rooted in *exactly* the same fallacious thought process that the belief systems you so readily dismiss, are, or were?

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September 26, 2014, 11:48:56 AM
 #60

If you simply remember that atheism is a religion, and Karl Marx's version is simply a branch of the religion of atheism, everything fits into place like it should.

Smiley
If atheism is a religion then bald is a haircut.

Karl Marx isn't originator of atheism. However, Marx and some other philosophers such as Lenin, Stalin were pioneers in the development of new state model based on dialectical materialism. This conception was derived from works which were done by Hegel, Heraclitus, Aristotle and some others.
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