view: bitcoin has hit its full potential

[Xiaoxiao]

if you google "21$ in bitcoin" immediately there is a exchange rate.  Just like any other currency or formula you can google.   Guess what?  The world knows about bitcoin; its capabilities has been shown.  Guess what?  The world is NOT impressed by bitcoin, and uninterested.  Bitcoin is disliked, and is not useful to 95% of the population.

I was around in 2011, and we dreamed of this day, where the world has been exposed to bitcoin.  As the saying goes "be careful what you wish for", there really isn't that much going on for bitcoin, but furthermore, the future of bitcoin.

Bitcoin is not really decentralized, anonymous, or easy to use.  Any entity that tries to improve bitcoin is not in it to really improve bitcoin, but to monopolize some kind of service that is good for bitcoin in the short run but destroys it in the long run.  Coinbase, mtgox, etc etc...

Bitcoin is centralized in the fact that it is only as good as the developers, and the developers are total stone degenerates.  Bitcoin is doomed to be something that just "didn't work" when we look back at in hindsight.  Just like another penny stock that was selling for hundreds of dollars a share during the .com bubble.  5 years from now (if this forum still exists), someone will bump this thread and facepalm at their ignorance.

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[mailmansDOGE]

Bitcoin is not really decentralized,

It's as decentralised a currency can get.

anonymous,

It is with the use of tools.

or easy to use.  

It is and it's becoming easier to use month by month as new applications come in to help adoption.

You got everything wrong in that sentence.

[jcoin200]

It is and it's becoming easier to use month by month as new applications come in to help adoption.

You got everything wrong in that sentence.

Its still just as hard to get your hands on btc as it was a year ago.  And using it hasn't changed much, you can still scan a qr code, but you can do that with other payment systems too.  Btc may protect against chargebacks, but if you send to a wrong address there is nothing you can do about it.  this is enough to scare off most people.  the first time someone lost coins by sending to a wrong address or was scammed somehow dealing with btc they are going to stop going through the hastle and give up on it.  the only thing btc now has for a hope of price increase is investor money coming in, however I think that will only cause short price spikes (like yesterday) and then they will quickly sell and make easy money.

[bananaControl]

Why is it that so many people can't understand that bitcoin isn't a finished product ready for mainstream yet? 

[Capt Drake]

Man, your posts are getting really annoying..

[sublime5447]

I couldn't agree more OP it is a failure. 

[Tzupy]

While I agree with the OP that bitcoin has pretty much reached it's full potential on a technology scale,
the lag in public perception may lead to a widespread understanding of this only much later, I hope in 2017.

[bananaControl]

While I agree with the OP that bitcoin has pretty much reached it's full potential on a technology scale,
the lag in public perception may lead to a widespread understanding of this only much later, I hope in 2017.

Are you kidding?

Jesus people, where's your imagination and insight into the actual development of various bitcoin related projects?

[oblivi]

It's unacurate to say Bitcoin its know "by the world", what the fuck that even means when if you go to the street and ask 10 people, probably 1 or even 0 will know what Bitcoin is. Go and try it actually.

[vipgelsi]

Bitcoin needs a few more years to really hit mainstream.

[trizma]

bitcoin has not even scratched its potential.


~ $100,000 per bitcoin in the next 5 yrs ~

[Torque]

OP says bitcoin hit its full potential, when only 2-3M people out of 7B worldwide actually have any bitcoin yet?

[sublime5447]

Point is that only 2-3 million people will ever have bitcoin because it is a failure and no one gives a fuck about it, and why would they? Most people dont give a shit and there is no good reason for them to start caring, bitcoin doesn't fix any problems the blockchain does , but the coin itself does not. 

[inca]

Point is that only 2-3 million people will ever have bitcoin because it is a failure and no one gives a fuck about it, and why would they? Most people dont give a shit and there is no good reason for them to start caring, bitcoin doesn't fix any problems the blockchain does , but the coin itself does not. 

Someone tell PayPal, Expedia. Dell, newegg, overstock, dish etc..

Plonker.

[adamstgBit]

OP, go buy an ounce of gold.

[sublime5447]

Point is that only 2-3 million people will ever have bitcoin because it is a failure and no one gives a fuck about it, and why would they? Most people dont give a shit and there is no good reason for them to start caring, bitcoin doesn't fix any problems the blockchain does , but the coin itself does not. 

Someone tell PayPal, Expedia. Dell, newegg, overstock, dish etc..

Plonker.

And yet the price continues tanking and the daily transaction volumes keep falling. 

[greaterfool]

Xiaoxiao are you still holding any bitcoins?

I want to help you get rid of them - how about 1 dollar each? We both agree they aren't worth anything at all, so a dollar per BTC is quite a deal. I will even buy your satoshis! Deal?

[ChuckBuck]

Full potential after 5 years?  

Bitcoin Core is still 0.9.2.1.  The entire Bitcoin development is effectively still in Beta phase.

We are still in the Innovation/early adopther phase of this curve.  Not even a fraction of full potential.

[inca]

Point is that only 2-3 million people will ever have bitcoin because it is a failure and no one gives a fuck about it, and why would they? Most people dont give a shit and there is no good reason for them to start caring, bitcoin doesn't fix any problems the blockchain does , but the coin itself does not. 

Someone tell PayPal, Expedia. Dell, newegg, overstock, dish etc..

Plonker.

And yet the price continues tanking and the daily transaction volumes keep falling. 

You do understand nothing goes straight up right? Try zooming out on the price and transaction volume charts.

[impulse]

And yet the price continues tanking and the daily transaction volumes keep falling. 

You are misinformed, daily transactions are near an all time high:

https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions
https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-popular

[bustrod]

And yet the price continues tanking and the daily transaction volumes keep falling.  

You are misinformed, daily transactions are near an all time high:

https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions
https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-popular

he may be referring to volume instead of number of transactions:

https://blockchain.info/charts/estimated-transaction-volume
..however, he's still incorrect.

it has, in fact, about doubled in the last 60 days:
https://blockchain.info/charts/estimated-transaction-volume?timespan=60days&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

[Wexlike]

Bitcoin has reached its full potential when you store your bitcoin hot wallet on your smartphone or hardware wallet. Additionally saved to your bitcoin hotwallet private key, you will have a pair of private car keys and the home key stored on your device. You will need the keys to start the engine of your car, and you will sell your car by transferring the token through the blockchain to the new owner in exchange to some satoshi.

Start using your brain and start to see the future.

[bustrod]

Bitcoin is not really decentralized

How is it not when everyone can host a node? ...because un-industrialized operations can't compete in the mining business any longer?

anonymous

Who said it was? You've been mislead. In fact, the whole idea is that every transaction IS public knowledge.

or easy to use.

Maybe we have different concepts of easy. I've personally found it extremely easy; I've sold OTC, bought and sold on market and fixed rate exchanges, used at brick and mortar as well as online. Every time so far, the transaction has been simple, fast and without issue. What makes bitcoin difficult for you to use?

I am beginning to think that you might just be a bitcoin bull deep down, Xiaoxiao. For how much misinformation you provide and the frequency with which you provide it, you may very well be a positive force in causing people to provide and formulate rebuttals to your arguments, thus strengthening and broadening an understanding of bitcoin. For that, thank you.


Edit:

Yes, I like your vision! Love that bitcoin is so much more than a currency, but a powerful, multipurpose token as your scenario nicely illustrates.

[inca]

Bitcoin has reached its full potential when you store your hardware wallet on your smartphone or hardware wallet. Additionally saved to your bitcoin hotwallet private key, you will have a pair of private car keys and the home key stored on your device. You will need the keys to start the engine of your car, and you will sell your car with transfering the token through the blockchain to the new owner in exchange to some satoshi.

Start using your brain and start to see the future.

You are soon flying back after a two week business trip out the country. Whilst walking through the airport departure lounge your phone PA agent app offers to arrange a taxi to pick you up at the other end and drive you home. You tap yes and via your inbuilt hardware smart wallet the agent instantly books a cab and pays with bitcoin. You order a beer and pay with bitcoin using the contactless payment system from your phone. Your phone offers to get the cleaner in to tidy up the house before you arrive home but you decide against it as the place wasn't too messy when you left. It is the end of the month and whilst you wait your phone bill and electricity bills appear on the screen. Bugger you think and tap pay as they are paid instantly with a few precious satoshis debited from your wallet. Today is the local council election and using your cryptographically secure election coloured coin you received last month you decide to spoil your ballot and abstain after perusing the available candidates.

The cloud agent app informs the other smart devices in your home of your imminent arrival and the fridge responds that it is low on milk and groceries..would you like replacements ordered in and your usual schedule restarting? You tap yes and the fridge orders and pays for new supplies from your favourite supermarket instantly using bitcoin. The plane is delayed and the agent automatically delays the DAC autocab for you. You stretch your smart device to widen the screen and stream a new movie in 3d from netflix for a few bits.

Finally you land and after picking up your luggage you walk out to the taxi rank. Numerous empty driverless autocabs are waiting and you hold your phone against the door of the nearest vehicle. It opens and drives you home directly avoiding all red lights and traffic. You lug your bags up the stairs to your plush flat and hold your phone up to the door lock but to your horror discover the battery is dead and you are locked out - damn iphone 10 - should have got the android.

[notme]

And yet the price continues tanking and the daily transaction volumes keep falling.  

You are misinformed, daily transactions are near an all time high:

https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions
https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-popular

And he's still wrong if we look at the stats he actually mentioned (transaction volume, not # of transactions)
BTC transaction volume trending up
https://blockchain.info/charts/estimated-transaction-volume
USD transaction holding steady in the face of massive price drops
https://blockchain.info/charts/estimated-transaction-volume-usd

[Nagle]

And yet the price continues tanking and the daily transaction volumes keep falling.  

You are misinformed, daily transactions are near an all time high:

https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions
https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-popular

he may be referring to volume instead of number of transactions:

https://blockchain.info/charts/estimated-transaction-volume
..however, he's still incorrect.

it has, in fact, about doubled in the last 60 days:
https://blockchain.info/charts/estimated-transaction-volume?timespan=60days&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

Nah. Take a look at estimated USD transaction volume., which is adjusted for change-making and other transactions that don't represent ownership transfers. Not much change since April, and way down from the China peak last December. (There's also a huge peak around the time Mt. Gox went down.)

[Nagle]

if you google "21$ in bitcoin" immediately there is a exchange rate.  Just like any other currency or formula you can google.   Guess what?  The world knows about bitcoin; its capabilities has been shown.  Guess what?  The world is NOT impressed by bitcoin, and uninterested.  Bitcoin is disliked, and is not useful to 95% of the population.

I was around in 2011, and we dreamed of this day, where the world has been exposed to bitcoin.  As the saying goes "be careful what you wish for", there really isn't that much going on for bitcoin, but furthermore, the future of bitcoin.

Bitcoin is the Segway of money.  It works, it's moderately useful, and it's not going to change the world.

[inca]

if you google "21$ in bitcoin" immediately there is a exchange rate.  Just like any other currency or formula you can google.   Guess what?  The world knows about bitcoin; its capabilities has been shown.  Guess what?  The world is NOT impressed by bitcoin, and uninterested.  Bitcoin is disliked, and is not useful to 95% of the population.

I was around in 2011, and we dreamed of this day, where the world has been exposed to bitcoin.  As the saying goes "be careful what you wish for", there really isn't that much going on for bitcoin, but furthermore, the future of bitcoin.

Bitcoin is the Segway of money.  It works, it's moderately useful, and it's not going to change the world.

Looking through your posts from 2011 it seems you were bearish then. You are bearish now. If you havent become fairly comfortable off bitcoin since then I can only assume you are one bitter man indeed!

[Wexlike]

Bitcoin has reached its full potential when you store your hardware wallet on your smartphone or hardware wallet. Additionally saved to your bitcoin hotwallet private key, you will have a pair of private car keys and the home key stored on your device. You will need the keys to start the engine of your car, and you will sell your car with transfering the token through the blockchain to the new owner in exchange to some satoshi.

Start using your brain and start to see the future.

You are soon flying back after a two week business trip out the country. Whilst walking through the airport departure lounge your phone PA agent app offers to arrange a taxi to pick you up at the other end and drive you home. You tap yes and via your inbuilt hardware smart wallet the agent instantly books a cab and pays with bitcoin. You order a beer and pay with bitcoin using the contactless payment system from your phone. Your phone offers to get the cleaner in to tidy up the house before you arrive home but you decide against it as the place wasn't too messy when you left. It is the end of the month and whilst you wait your phone bill and electricity bills appear on the screen. Bugger you think and tap pay as they are paid instantly with a few precious satoshis debited from your wallet. Today is the local council election and using your cryptographically secure election coloured coin you received last month you decide to spoil your ballot and abstain after perusing the available candidates.

The cloud agent app informs the other smart devices in your home of your imminent arrival and the fridge responds that it is low on milk and groceries..would you like replacements ordered in and your usual schedule restarting? You tap yes and the fridge orders and pays for new supplies from your favourite supermarket instantly using bitcoin. The plane is delayed and the agent automatically delays the DAC autocab for you. You stretch your smart device to widen the screen and stream a new movie in 3d from netflix for a few bits.

Finally you land and after picking up your luggage you walk out to the taxi rank. Numerous empty driverless autocabs are waiting and you hold your phone against the door of the nearest vehicle. It opens and drives you home directly avoiding all red lights and traffic. You lug your bags up the stairs to your plush flat and hold your phone up to the door lock but to your horror discover the battery is dead and you are locked out - damn iphone 10 - should have got the android.

we share the same vision !

[bustrod]

Nah. Take a look at estimated USD transaction volume., which is adjusted for change-making and other transactions that don't represent ownership transfers. Not much change since April, and way down from the China peak last December. (There's also a huge peak around the time Mt. Gox went down.)

This is precisely what I was looking at. It isn't a fair comparison to take the peak of December, during speculative fueled frenzies and say we are down from there. I can do that on any chart for any market to create a skewed perspective. Between the months of January and March, we were still dropping to find our real bottom. Bitcoin was still discovering it's "actual" price (by actual, I mean absent short-sighted speculation). Gox implodes, there's another rush and we find a new bottom. Only short term speculators want explosive, impossible to sustain appreciation. Since May now, we've had slow, but steady growth.

Look at 30 day, 60, 180, 1 year ...each and every one is UP. Contrary to sublime's comment that I was replying to, no ..it simply is not falling, and that was my point.

[zimmah]

if you google "21$ in bitcoin" immediately there is a exchange rate.  Just like any other currency or formula you can google.   Guess what?  The world knows about bitcoin; its capabilities has been shown.  Guess what?  The world is NOT impressed by bitcoin, and uninterested.  Bitcoin is disliked, and is not useful to 95% of the population.

I was around in 2011, and we dreamed of this day, where the world has been exposed to bitcoin.  As the saying goes "be careful what you wish for", there really isn't that much going on for bitcoin, but furthermore, the future of bitcoin.

Bitcoin is not really decentralized, anonymous, or easy to use.  Any entity that tries to improve bitcoin is not in it to really improve bitcoin, but to monopolize some kind of service that is good for bitcoin in the short run but destroys it in the long run.  Coinbase, mtgox, etc etc...

Bitcoin is centralized in the fact that it is only as good as the developers, and the developers are total stone degenerates.  Bitcoin is doomed to be something that just "didn't work" when we look back at in hindsight.  Just like another penny stock that was selling for hundreds of dollars a share during the .com bubble.  5 years from now (if this forum still exists), someone will bump this thread and facepalm at their ignorance.

let's go back to 1980ish

if you read the times about "the internet" immediately you will find it on the front page.  Guess what?  The world knows about the internet; its capabilities has been shown.  Guess what?  The world is NOT impressed by the internet, and uninterested.  the internet is disliked, and is not useful to 95% of the population.

I was around in 1970, and we dreamed of this day, where the world has been exposed to the internet.  As the saying goes "be careful what you wish for", there really isn't that much going on for the internet, but furthermore, the future of the internet.

The internet is not really neccesary, anonymous, or easy to use.  Any entity that tries to improve the internet is not in it to really improve the internet, but to monopolize some kind of service that is good for the internet in the short run but destroys it in the long run.  (Some random dotcom companies) etc etc...

(some random flaws about the internet)

[BrewCrewFan]

I bet the people at home depot wished they had been able to pay with bitcoin.

[redsn0w]

OP, go buy an ounce of gold.

This sentence is fantastic ! OP If you don't trust bitcoin go away  .

[sublime5447]

https://blockchain.info/charts/estimated-transaction-volume-usd?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

Volume is way down in the only metric that matters USD!

[meanig]

Bitcoin is the Segway of money.  It works, it's moderately useful, and it's not going to change the world.

But you were full certain back in 2011 that Bitcoin would be dead in a matter of weeks and the price would actually go into negative territory. Have your predictions got any better since then or are you still talking nonsense 

[sublime5447]

if you google "21$ in bitcoin" immediately there is a exchange rate.  Just like any other currency or formula you can google.   Guess what?  The world knows about bitcoin; its capabilities has been shown.  Guess what?  The world is NOT impressed by bitcoin, and uninterested.  Bitcoin is disliked, and is not useful to 95% of the population.

I was around in 2011, and we dreamed of this day, where the world has been exposed to bitcoin.  As the saying goes "be careful what you wish for", there really isn't that much going on for bitcoin, but furthermore, the future of bitcoin.

Bitcoin is the Segway of money.  It works, it's moderately useful, and it's not going to change the world.

I do think decentralization and the blockchain will change the world, but these guys will be riding their segway's, while listening to napster, while surfing AOL, while counting their bitcoins and telling friends about it on myspace.

[bustrod]

https://blockchain.info/charts/estimated-transaction-volume-usd?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

Volume is way down in the only metric that matters USD!

Ahh ..so you measure success vs. failure in terms of USD. So you believe bitcoin's sole use is as a speculative vehicle by which more USD can be obtained?

And way down from what? December '13? March '14? if you're comparing to those periods of time, you're not worth arguing with.

[CryptoCarmen]

I was around in 2011, and we dreamed of this day, where the world has been exposed to bitcoin.  As the saying goes "be careful what you wish for", there really isn't that much going on for bitcoin, but furthermore, the future of bitcoin.

3 years is really not to much. If you dream and imagine back then exactly as it is now, i doubt you would wrote article like this, since you would have some vision what will be in 3 years from now.

[teukon]

if you google "21$ in bitcoin" immediately there is a exchange rate.  Just like any other currency or formula you can google.   Guess what?  The world knows about bitcoin; its capabilities has been shown.  Guess what?  The world is NOT impressed by bitcoin, and uninterested.  Bitcoin is disliked, and is not useful to 95% of the population.

Theorem:

• Google knows about Bitcoin.
• Everyone knows about Google.
• Therefore, everyone knows about Bitcoin.

[Robert Paulson]

people are currently living in a pipe dream that paper money can work, despite the fact it never did, that's a 100% failure rate.
the world is going to have a new monetary system in this decade as the printed money malinvestments pile up to unsustainable levels.

there are only two viable options, either go back to precious metals or use bitcoin.
there is no sense using gold where you have to trust someone to hold it for you.

with bitcoin for the first time in 550 years YOU are the bank, each and every one of us is actually a walking bank.

people look at bitcoin as if its a clone of paypal without realizing the historic paradigm change that it causes in the banking industry.

[Chuckee]

All the replies about what bitcoin "can do" and why it's destined to change the world... all these things, like ordering a taxi or buying pizza online... you can already do with this neat little invention called a credit card. They've actually been around for over 40 years...

Telling people here that bitcoin has maxed out is like walking into a heaven's gate meeting and telling them that there is no mythical space ship in the sky waiting to beam them to heaven. Members of this forum have been holding, and telling each other for the better part of a year that bitcoin is destined to change the world... just because it's so awesome and the sheep don't recognize it yet. Bitcoins are magical beans, you're all just holding and hoping to get rich. But the public is now aware of bitcoin and they're not interested. They don't care that it's centralized. People like centralization.

Why do you think libertarians only get 1 or 2% of the vote? People want a big government to look out for them, and even if they have an independent streak in them, they still don't want a digital currency, which can be potentially lost or stolen from them unless they're some kind of computer security expert. Not to mentioned the 60% decline in value in less than one year. If you think people will ever want bitcoin for anything other than speculating or gambling, then you must be smoking something.

[inca]

All the replies about what bitcoin "can do" and why it's destined to change the world... all these things, like ordering a taxi or buying pizza online... you can already do with this neat little invention called a credit card. They've actually been around for over 40 years...

Telling people here that bitcoin has maxed out is like walking into a heaven's gate meeting and telling them that there is no mythical space ship in the sky waiting to beam them to heaven. Members of this forum have been holding, and telling each other for the better part of a year that bitcoin is destined to change the world... just because it's so awesome and the sheep don't recognize it yet. Bitcoins are magical beans, you're all just holding and hoping to get rich. But the public is now aware of bitcoin and they're not interested. They don't care that it's centralized. People like centralization.

Why do you think libertarians only get 1 or 2% of the vote? People want a big government to look out for them, and even if they have an independent streak in them, they still don't want a digital currency, which can be potentially lost or stolen from them unless they're some kind of computer security expert. Not to mentioned the 60% decline in value in less than one year. If you think people will ever want bitcoin for anything other than speculating or gambling, then you must be smoking something.

Why would people want to use and save the best form of money ever invented? The same reason you do. The irony isnt lost on me the loudest detractors of bitcoin on the forum are those who secretly seek it the most!

[Robert Paulson]

All the replies about what bitcoin "can do" and why it's destined to change the world... all these things, like ordering a taxi or buying pizza online... you can already do with this neat little invention called a credit card. They've actually been around for over 40 years...

Telling people here that bitcoin has maxed out is like walking into a heaven's gate meeting and telling them that there is no mythical space ship in the sky waiting to beam them to heaven. Members of this forum have been holding, and telling each other for the better part of a year that bitcoin is destined to change the world... just because it's so awesome and the sheep don't recognize it yet. Bitcoins are magical beans, you're all just holding and hoping to get rich. But the public is now aware of bitcoin and they're not interested. They don't care that it's centralized. People like centralization.

Why do you think libertarians only get 1 or 2% of the vote? People want a big government to look out for them, and even if they have an independent streak in them, they still don't want a digital currency, which can be potentially lost or stolen from them unless they're some kind of computer security expert. Not to mentioned the 60% decline in value in less than one year. If you think people will ever want bitcoin for anything other than speculating or gambling, then you must be smoking something.

your bank can close your credit card and freeze your account and there's nothing you can do about that.
bitcoin allows you to become your own bank, you can even loan funds to other people without anyone being able to stop you, no credit card can do that.

a system that disrupts 500 years of banking is not going to be perfect 5 years after its been invented, bitcoin's volatility will decline once the volume on exchanges becomes more substantial, today you only need a few million USD to move the price significantly.

people can want big government all they want, governments rise and fall like the winter wheat, none last forever.
even the mighty roman empire collapsed, but hey, i'm sure its different this time...

[Wilhelm]

a system that disrupts 500 years of banking is not going to be perfect 5 years after its been invented

Nice quote and so true.

Why does everyone want to become millionaire over night 

[NotLambchop]

...
with bitcoin for the first time in 550 years YOU are the bank, each and every one of us is actually a walking bank.
...

Not everyone dreams of being his own bank.  I, for instance, don't.  No more than I dream about being my own plumber, or butcher.

...
You are soon flying back after a two week business trip out the country. Whilst walking through the airport departure lounge your phone PA agent app offers to arrange a taxi to pick you up at the other end and drive you home. You tap yes and via your inbuilt hardware smart wallet credit card the agent instantly books a cab and pays with bitcoin credit card. You order a beer and pay with bitcoin credit card using the contactless payment system from your phone. Your phone offers to get the cleaner in to tidy up the house before you arrive home but you decide against it as the place wasn't too messy when you left. It is the end of the month and whilst you wait your phone bill and electricity bills appear on the screen. Bugger you think and tap pay as they are paid instantly with a few precious satoshis debited from your wallet "why am I seeing this?  These are paid automatically through my credit card!" ... etc., etc.

FTFY.  If you trust apps with your coin, trust them with your CC.  No need for Bitcoin

Credit Card.  Your tomorrow is here, today!

Edit:  And I'm not even going to get into you ordering a beer and waiting for confirms, missing your taxi in the process, and coming home to find others living in it.  It's been sold because I wrote your apps, which were open-source, but you didn't audit the code.  There is no CC company to make it all better--BTC transactions are irreversible, and you're your own bank.

[Robert Paulson]

...
with bitcoin for the first time in 550 years YOU are the bank, each and every one of us is actually a walking bank.
...

Not everyone dreams of being his own bank.  I, for instance, don't.  No more than I dream about being my own plumber, or butcher.

if you're willing to delegate the safekeeping of the fruits of your hard labor to someone else don't be surprised when he runs off with it.

[NotLambchop]

^I'm willing to do more than that.  I go under a surgeon's knife, without the urge to take it from him so I could do it myself.
And that guy could kill me

[Robert Paulson]

^I'm willing to do more than that.  I go under a surgeon's knife, without the urge to take it from him so I could do it myself.
And that guy could kill me

the surgeon gains nothing from killing you.
your banker will happily run off with your money to pay his debts.

[Robert Paulson]

but hey, it couldn't happen here right?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/12/us-eu-banks-savings-idUSBREA1B1ZI20140212

[NotLambchop]

^My banker could steal my money.  
A cop could cap my ass as I leave the bank, empty-handed.  
A dog could run over, snack on my blownout brains, lap at the blood, get bored, lift his leg and piss on what used to be my face.

How paranoid are you?

Re. your link: My bank account is protected by FDIC.  I also don't keep more than the insured amount in my account--that's stupid.

[Robert Paulson]

^My banker could steal my money.  
A cop could cap my ass as I leave the bank, empty-handed.  
A dog could run over, snack on my blownout brains, lap at the blood, get bored, lift his leg and piss on what used to be my face.

How paranoid are you?

hopefully paranoid enough to avoid the same fate as these people had only a year ago.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanlewis/2013/05/03/the-cyprus-bank-bail-in-is-another-crony-bankster-scam/

[exocytosis]

bitcoin allows you to become your own bank

Most people don't want to be their own bank. Most people prefer using simple, fast, reliable payment methods, like credit cards. Using such services, people have an insurance against theft and fraud.

[NotLambchop]

^My banker could steal my money.  
A cop could cap my ass as I leave the bank, empty-handed.  
A dog could run over, snack on my blownout brains, lap at the blood, get bored, lift his leg and piss on what used to be my face.

How paranoid are you?

hopefully paranoid enough to avoid the same fate as these people had only a year ago.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanlewis/2013/05/03/the-cyprus-bank-bail-in-is-another-crony-bankster-scam/

My bank account is protected by FDIC.  I also don't keep more than the insured amount in my account--that's stupid.

Get on my level.

[Robert Paulson]

bitcoin allows you to become your own bank

Most people don't want to be their own bank. Most people prefer using simple, fast, reliable payment methods, like credit cards. Using such services, people have an insurance against theft and fraud.

I'm afraid its a decision they are likely to regret (see my two links above)

[Robert Paulson]

^My banker could steal my money.  
A cop could cap my ass as I leave the bank, empty-handed.  
A dog could run over, snack on my blownout brains, lap at the blood, get bored, lift his leg and piss on what used to be my face.

How paranoid are you?

hopefully paranoid enough to avoid the same fate as these people had only a year ago.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanlewis/2013/05/03/the-cyprus-bank-bail-in-is-another-crony-bankster-scam/

My bank account is protected by FDIC.  I also don't keep more than the insured amount in my account--that's stupid.

Get on my level.

sure "protected" by the FDIC, until it stops being protected and confiscated to pay off America's huge debt either directly or through inflation.

[NotLambchop]

^Bro, there are much simpler ways for your government to pwn you.  BTC or no BTC
Oh, and that national debt?  We lied--we're never paying it back.  And you can't keep calling  to bug us about it.  Because Geneva Convention

[Robert Paulson]

^Bro, there are much simpler ways for your government to pwn you.  BTC or no BTC

they are not going to "pwn" you if your wealth is in bitcoin.
unless you're a very rich high profile target they will just leave you alone and proceed to rob the rest of the sheep who hold their money in the banks and in government bonds.

the fact that the IMF explicitly tells you they are drafting a plan to confiscate people's money is why bitcoin is desperately needed.
if you prefer to ignore all the warning signs that's your choice and i wish you luck.

[Robert Paulson]

https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fm/2013/02/pdf/fm1302.pdf

here it is just so that you won't say im paranoid and making stuff up

“The sharp deterioration of the public finances in many countries has revived interest in a ‘capital levy’ – a one-off tax on private wealth – as an exceptional measure to restore debt sustainability. The appeal is that such a tax, if it is implemented before avoidance is possible and there is a belief that it will never be repeated, does not distort behavior (and may be seen by some as fair). … The conditions for success are strong, but also need to be weighed against the risks of the alternatives, which include repudiating public debt or inflating it away.”

[Chuckee]

your bank can close your credit card and freeze your account and there's nothing you can do about that.
bitcoin allows you to become your own bank, you can even loan funds to other people without anyone being able to stop you, no credit card can do that.

There are very few bank users who worry about having their account frozen or their credit card's line of credit frozen, because most people aren't terrorists or drug dealers. So tell me again why exactly everyone is going to start using bitcoin? Why would I want to loan money to a friend? That sounds like a bad idea to begin with, but I suppose if I really wanted to, I'd just write him a check?

a system that disrupts 500 years of banking is not going to be perfect 5 years after its been invented, bitcoin's volatility will decline once the volume on exchanges becomes more substantial, today you only need a few million USD to move the price significantly.

you only need a few thousand to move the market, and that's because nobody is buying bitcoin for the reasons I've already explained. To become stable, there must be a huge volume of traders, which will never happen because bitcoin solves a problem that people don't have and will never have.

people can want big government all they want, governments rise and fall like the winter wheat, none last forever.
even the mighty roman empire collapsed, but hey, i'm sure its different this time...

Sure the US and Western European governments will fall somebody just like the Roman empire did, but probably not within our lifetimes. When that day comes, some people will take a hit and others will profit. When the new government inevitably arises, people will begin using the new currency. Bitcoin will not even be a footnote to that process.

[NotLambchop]

^Bro, there are much simpler ways for your government to pwn you.  BTC or no BTC

they are not going to "pwn" you if your wealth is in bitcoin.
unless you're a very rich high profile target they will just leave you alone and proceed to rob the rest of the sheep who hold their money in the banks and in government bonds.

Robert Paulson, don't be so disdainful of well-adjusted sheep.  They are herd animals, fairing awfully outside of the herd.  When they stray from the herd, as you seem to be suggesting you've done, they do not somehow become un-sheep.
They simply get eaten by wolves, or run over by drunk kids in pickups.
Sheep that resent being sheep are ill-adjusted sheep with high mortality rates.  Contrary to their belief, they aren't lions--they're simply unwell

*typos

[Robert Paulson]

your bank can close your credit card and freeze your account and there's nothing you can do about that.
bitcoin allows you to become your own bank, you can even loan funds to other people without anyone being able to stop you, no credit card can do that.

There are very few bank users who worry about having their account frozen or their credit card's line of credit frozen, because most people aren't terrorists or drug dealers. So tell me again why exactly everyone is going to start using bitcoin? Why would I want to loan money to a friend? That sounds like a bad idea to begin with, but I suppose if I really wanted to, I'd just write him a check?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=796646.msg8973821#msg8973821

the IMF tells you black on white that it considers confiscating people's money and you still don't care.
what else needs to happen for you to understand that sooner or later they are going to rob you.
there won't be any more obvious signals than this, the next step is you wake up one day and your bank account is frozen.

just like this guy did:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160292.0

[sublime5447]

your bank can close your credit card and freeze your account and there's nothing you can do about that.
bitcoin allows you to become your own bank, you can even loan funds to other people without anyone being able to stop you, no credit card can do that.

There are very few bank users who worry about having their account frozen or their credit card's line of credit frozen, because most people aren't terrorists or drug dealers. So tell me again why exactly everyone is going to start using bitcoin? Why would I want to loan money to a friend? That sounds like a bad idea to begin with, but I suppose if I really wanted to, I'd just write him a check?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=796646.msg8973821#msg8973821

the IMF tells you black on white that it considers confiscating people's money and you still don't care.
what else needs to happen for you to understand that sooner or later they are going to rob you.
there won't be any more obvious signals than this, the next step is you wake up one day and your bank account is frozen.

just like this guy did:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160292.0

Right now they are paying me to hold dollars, I can get more gold, more gas, more commodities, and after the last 4 days more stock. BTC is down 60 percent over the last 10 months, the good ol USD is up 8-9 percent against the euro, 9-11 percent against gold, 3 dollar gas is on the way. Bitcoin is inflating (which is a function of supply AND DEMAND) while the USD is deflating and you are telling me I will get robbed holding dollars and get rich holding BTC, I am telling you it is just the opposite. The best assets class right now is USD. 

[Wexlike]

Why do you spend so much time in a bitcoin forum, if bitcoin is so bad compared to your dollar ?

[fonzie]

Why do you spend so much time in a bitcoin forum, if bitcoin is so bad compared to your dollar ?

ALTRUISM

[Robert Paulson]

your bank can close your credit card and freeze your account and there's nothing you can do about that.
bitcoin allows you to become your own bank, you can even loan funds to other people without anyone being able to stop you, no credit card can do that.

There are very few bank users who worry about having their account frozen or their credit card's line of credit frozen, because most people aren't terrorists or drug dealers. So tell me again why exactly everyone is going to start using bitcoin? Why would I want to loan money to a friend? That sounds like a bad idea to begin with, but I suppose if I really wanted to, I'd just write him a check?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=796646.msg8973821#msg8973821

the IMF tells you black on white that it considers confiscating people's money and you still don't care.
what else needs to happen for you to understand that sooner or later they are going to rob you.
there won't be any more obvious signals than this, the next step is you wake up one day and your bank account is frozen.

just like this guy did:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160292.0

Right now they are paying me to hold dollars, I can get more gold, more gas, more commodities, and after the last 4 days more stock. BTC is down 60 percent over the last 10 months, the good ol USD is up 8-9 percent against the euro, 9-11 percent against gold, 3 dollar gas is on the way. Bitcoin is inflating (which is a function of supply AND DEMAND) while the USD is deflating and you are telling me I will get robbed holding dollars and get rich holding BTC, I am telling you it is just the opposite. The best assets class right now is USD. 

your basically gambling that youll be able to pull your dollars out before they confiscate them or inflate them to zero.
America can't have a deflating dollar, it has too much debt.
you can be sure the printing press is being warmed up.

[sgbett]

your bank can close your credit card and freeze your account and there's nothing you can do about that.
bitcoin allows you to become your own bank, you can even loan funds to other people without anyone being able to stop you, no credit card can do that.

There are very few bank users who worry about having their account frozen or their credit card's line of credit frozen, because most people aren't terrorists or drug dealers. So tell me again why exactly everyone is going to start using bitcoin? Why would I want to loan money to a friend? That sounds like a bad idea to begin with, but I suppose if I really wanted to, I'd just write him a check?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=796646.msg8973821#msg8973821

the IMF tells you black on white that it considers confiscating people's money and you still don't care.
what else needs to happen for you to understand that sooner or later they are going to rob you.
there won't be any more obvious signals than this, the next step is you wake up one day and your bank account is frozen.

just like this guy did:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160292.0

Right now they are paying me to hold dollars, I can get more gold, more gas, more commodities, and after the last 4 days more stock. BTC is down 60 percent over the last 10 months, the good ol USD is up 8-9 percent against the euro, 9-11 percent against gold, 3 dollar gas is on the way. Bitcoin is inflating (which is a function of supply AND DEMAND) while the USD is deflating and you are telling me I will get robbed holding dollars and get rich holding BTC, I am telling you it is just the opposite. The best assets class right now is USD. 

Shareholder mentality. Look no further than the next quarter.

[Wekkel]

The average guy still trusts his currency and bank account. Gold is poised to go down instead of up, partially because of this. Only when trouble and fear return - this time with a real effect on the average guy (think Cyprus) - we will see an effect on typical safe havens.

Don't smash the guys that tell you that TBTB still appear to be in full control. Be patient and take every possible scenario into account.

[NotLambchop]

...
your basically gambling that youll be able to pull your dollars out before they confiscate them or inflate them to zero...

If the USD becomes worthless, stuff like law/order will be history.  You need those things for money of any kind to work better than a pawnshop .25 or a meat cleaver.  On top of being money, BTC also needs at least a web-enabled mobile device to work.
Grid power/interwebs/cell service will also be sporadic at best.  Those you also need before BTC can work.  BTC: Not apocalypse-friendly.

OTH, if BTC becomes worthless right now? I'd have to explain to most folks what BTC *is* before asking them if they cared
As far as me gambling on "pulling my dollars out"?  Working out well thus far.  Total losses over my lifetime?  Zero

...(think Cyprus) - we will see an effect on typical safe havens.
...

Memories...

*TL;DR:  The government needs you for your wool and, occasionally, lamb chops.  This does not mean you're better off without it.  As soon as you stray from the herd,

...When they you stray from the herd, as you seem to be suggesting you've done, they you do not somehow become un-sheep.
They You simply get eaten by wolves, or run over by drunk kids in pickups.
Sheep that resent being sheep are ill-adjusted sheep with high mortality rates.  Contrary to their belief, they aren't lions--they're simply unwell

[Robert Paulson]

...
your basically gambling that youll be able to pull your dollars out before they confiscate them or inflate them to zero...

If the USD becomes worthless, stuff like law/order will be history.  You need those things for money of any kind to work better than a pawnshop .25 or a meat cleaver.  On top of being money, BTC also needs at least a web-enabled mobile device to work.
Grid power/interwebs/cell service will also be sporadic at best.  Those you also need before BTC can work.  BTC: Not apocalypse-friendly.

OTH, if BTC becomes worthless right now? I'd have to explain to most folks what BTC *is* before asking them if they cared
As far as me gambling on "pulling my dollars out"?  Working out well thus far.  Total losses over my lifetime?  Zero

...(think Cyprus) - we will see an effect on typical safe havens.
...

Memories...

*TL;DR:  The government needs you for your wool and, occasionally, lamb chops.  This does not mean you're better off without it.  As soon as you stray from the herd,

...When they you stray from the herd, as you seem to be suggesting you've done, they you do not somehow become un-sheep.
They You simply get eaten by wolves, or run over by drunk kids in pickups.
Sheep that resent being sheep are ill-adjusted sheep with high mortality rates.  Contrary to their belief, they aren't lions--they're simply unwell

you will still have power and internet when the dollar goes to zero.
those utility companies are still there, they just wont accept worthless dollars as payment.

[NotLambchop]

^Bro, do you even world economy?

I'm guessing your entire economics knowledge is based on a couple of "Money as Debt" ut00b vids.

[sgbett]

^Bro, do you even world economy?

I'm guessing your entire economics knowledge is based on a couple of "Money as Debt" ut00b vids.

and what of your governmental collapse, when they just buy up 90% of the BTC with their infinite money, and big business takes over mining, and *nothing changes*

[NotLambchop]

^
Why in the world would my govt. do that?  Will it also snap up all the Litecoin?  And Doge?  And every shitcoin?  
Will my government also buy up every autumn leaf?

I know you don't think much of gubermints, but buying up 90% of BTC?  Just how overinvested are you?

[bustrod]

Telling people here that bitcoin has maxed out is like walking into a heaven's gate meeting and telling them that there is no mythical space ship in the sky waiting to beam them to heaven. ......... But the public is now aware of bitcoin and they're not interested. They don't care that it's centralized. People like centralization.

No, telling people that bitcoin has maxed out it's technological potential is like walking around in the '80s and telling people the internet has done all it's ever going to do.

Most people don't want to be their own bank. Most people prefer using simple, fast, reliable payment methods, like credit cards. Using such services, people have an insurance against theft and fraud.

My bank account is protected by FDIC.  I also don't keep more than the insured amount in my account--that's stupid.

To become stable, there must be a huge volume of traders, which will never happen because bitcoin solves a problem that people don't have and will never have.

No, it solves a problem that you don't have. No, none of you are interested in being your own banks. Of course, you would never think of putting more than the FDIC insured amount in your account. But this isn't about any of you. Your living conditions, opportunities, the way you think or behave is very likely NOT shared by every one of the other 7 billion people on the planet. You all seem to suffer from the same projectionist delusion.

Stop the generalizations and this ridiculous either/or argument. Credit Card OR Bitcoin? Bitcoin OR Fiat? If you don't personally see bitcoin as a benefit to you in your little world, then you're probably fortunate to live in a place where you have many choices of payment options and credit can be found every 300 ft if it's not already waiting for you at your house. Over half of the 7+ billion people on this planet do not yet have access to the internet, but that is changing. About half live out their daily life without ever interacting with a financial institution, due to inaccessibility, corruption, cultural tendency, etc. Forget how many total people that leaves that do not hold credit cards or even have access to credit. Of the well over 3.5 billion people that don't have your privileged financial instruments, can you imagine that there just might be some that would see a tremendous benefit to buying/holding/spending a global currency not debased by their corrupt government within their corroding inflated economies? And you can't argue that bitcoin is mainstream, or that everyone in the world has been given the opportunity to understand, acquire or use it...

I'd have to explain to most folks what BTC *is* before asking them if they cared

Or what of the immigrant workers sending money overseas to family? That's a $500+ billion market being relegated to an antiquated, monopolized, overpriced and time-protracted industry.

Credit card fraud. Identity theft. Consumer data breaches. Sure, credit card companies can continue patching the leaky pipes, but will you allow yourself to be convinced that this time it's different and these will be the patches that stick for good?

There are very valid reasons for credit and there is a place for it in our society. However, debt money is not the wisest choice for every financial transaction conceivable. In fact, credit has created a stigma in generations of people that spending more money than they have is 'ok'.

Oh, and that national debt?  We lied--we're never paying it back.

So just keep borrowing?

[Robert Paulson]

Oh, and that national debt?  We lied--we're never paying it back.  And you can't keep calling  to bug us about it.  Because Geneva Convention

your not paying it back? no problem, then we won't loan you money anymore.
unfortunately for you, you need the rest of the world to loan you 40.5 billion USD every month or else you can't pay for your imports.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/balance-of-trade

[NotLambchop]

...

My bank account is protected by FDIC.  I also don't keep more than the insured amount in my account--that's stupid.

...
No, it solves a problem that you don't have. No, none of you are interested in being your own banks. Of course, you would never think of putting more than the FDIC insured amount in your account. But this isn't about any of you. Your living conditions, opportunities, the way you think or behave is very likely NOT shared by every one of the other 7 billion people on the planet. You all seem to suffer from the same projectionist delusion.

Stop the generalizations and this ridiculous either/or argument. Credit Card OR Bitcoin? Bitcoin OR Fiat? ...

Lol, I never said no one would like to be his own bank.  You, for one, clearly do.  I'd advise against it for now, though.  For now, just focus on learning the difference between statements of fact and overbroad generalizations.

I never suggested that CC and BTC are mutually exclusive.  I have both
I did say that inca's smartphone e-payment scenarios didn't require BTC at all, and could be implemented today with an ordinary bank account.
I then mentioned that CC is far more useful in realtime transactions, because confirmation delays intrinsic to teh protocol.

I'd have to explain to most folks what BTC *is* before asking them if they cared

Or what of the immigrant workers sending money overseas to family? That's a $500+ billion market being relegated to an antiquated, monopolized, overpriced and time-protracted industry.
...

It's important to keep things in context--another skill you should hone before "becoming your own bank."  The quoted line, restored to its proper context, suggests that USD crashing to zero would be a cataclysmic event, while BTC tanking would, at worst, cause srs lulz.

See?

@Robert Paulson:  Again, you don't understand how international commerce works.  US is not "borrowing" USD from anyone, much less yourself  
You don't think the rest of the world is trading with US and not sending collectors after us because we're loved, do you?
Srsly, go back to school or study for a GED

[RodeoX]

Oh great. Another "FINAL WARNING!!!!!!!" from the guy who can't understand bitcoin.   

[Robert Paulson]

@Robert Paulson:  Again, you don't understand how international commerce works.  US is not "borrowing" USD from anyone, much less yourself  
You don't think the rest of the world is trading with US and not sending collectors after us because we're loved, do you?
Srsly, go back to school or study for a GED

i understand how international commerce works perfectly fine.
the US is borrowing USD with every bond it sells.
the data is clear, the US is running a huge trade deficit on top of its already huge debt to the rest of the world.
if the world stops loaning, the US has to start printing 40 billion every month and hope that the rest of the world is stupid enough to continue accepting it as payment.

[jcoin200]

Oh great. Another "FINAL WARNING!!!!!!!" from the guy who can't understand bitcoin.   

I think he understands it just fine, and i've seen him have some good insight on btc trading.  He has made some good points.  It's acceptance by the general public has slowed to a near crawl.  No one is clamoring to get their hands on some btc.  It could be several years until its truly widely accepted, if something else hasn't taken its place by then.

but its pretty obvious people dont want to buy btc up front, wait for coins (4 days if you go w/ coinbase) and then hope the exchange rate doesn't screw you.

I also think btc is a great technology, but the media has done a good job scaring the average person away, and the steps involved to initially start using btc are a big hurdle for most people to get over.  It took me probably a few days of researching before I felt comfortable using/buying btc.  I think his points are valid that there is no "mass adoption" coming any time soon.

[NotLambchop]

@Robert Paulson:  Again, you don't understand how international commerce works.  US is not "borrowing" USD from anyone, much less yourself  
You don't think the rest of the world is trading with US and not sending collectors after us because we're loved, do you?
Srsly, go back to school or study for a GED

i understand how international commerce works perfectly fine.
the US is borrowing USD with every bond it sells.
the data is clear, the US is running a huge trade deficit on top of its already huge debt to the rest of the world.
if the world stops loaning, the US has to start printing 40 billion every month and hope that the rest of the world is stupid enough to continue accepting it as payment.

Robert Robert Robert...

You keep forgetting that we owe nothing but worthless dollars, dollars dat are "already dead," as you so poignantly pointed out.
Dollars you'll certainly agree we just print by the boatload.
Not much of a debt, amirite?

*And no, you don't understand economics.  Let me explain it to you in terms you'll understand:
1. You have lent Anon 1 BTC.
2. Annon now owes you 1 BTC.
3. Anon, as is customary in Bitcoinland, tells you he ain't got it.

Who's got whose balls?

[Robert Paulson]

@Robert Paulson:  Again, you don't understand how international commerce works.  US is not "borrowing" USD from anyone, much less yourself  
You don't think the rest of the world is trading with US and not sending collectors after us because we're loved, do you?
Srsly, go back to school or study for a GED

i understand how international commerce works perfectly fine.
the US is borrowing USD with every bond it sells.
the data is clear, the US is running a huge trade deficit on top of its already huge debt to the rest of the world.
if the world stops loaning, the US has to start printing 40 billion every month and hope that the rest of the world is stupid enough to continue accepting it as payment.

Robert Robert Robert...

You keep forgetting that we owe nothing but worthless dollars, dollars dat are "already dead," as you so poignantly pointed out.
Dollars you'll certainly agree we just print by the boatload.
Not much of a debt, amirite?

*And no, you don't understand economics.  Let me explain it to you in terms you'll understand:
1. You have lent Anon 1 BTC.
2. Annon now owes you 1 BTC.
3. Anon, as is customary in Bitcoinland, tells you he ain't got it.

Who's got whose balls?

only in this case if Anon can't borrow anymore he can't pay for any imports anymore and goes hungry.

[Wekkel]

I think his points are valid that there is no "mass adoption" coming any time soon.

The greatest fear of people is: change.

Especially with something emotionally laden as 'money'. Beanie Bee must have some patience.

[NotLambchop]

@Robert Paulson:  Again, you don't understand how international commerce works.  US is not "borrowing" USD from anyone, much less yourself  
You don't think the rest of the world is trading with US and not sending collectors after us because we're loved, do you?
Srsly, go back to school or study for a GED

i understand how international commerce works perfectly fine.
the US is borrowing USD with every bond it sells.
the data is clear, the US is running a huge trade deficit on top of its already huge debt to the rest of the world.
if the world stops loaning, the US has to start printing 40 billion every month and hope that the rest of the world is stupid enough to continue accepting it as payment.

Robert Robert Robert...

You keep forgetting that we owe nothing but worthless dollars, dollars dat are "already dead," as you so poignantly pointed out.
Dollars you'll certainly agree we just print by the boatload.
Not much of a debt, amirite?

*And no, you don't understand economics.  Let me explain it to you in terms you'll understand:
1. You have lent Anon 1 BTC.
2. Annon now owes you 1 BTC.
3. Anon, as is customary in Bitcoinland, tells you he ain't got it.

Who's got whose balls?

only in this case if Anon can't borrow anymore he can't pay for any imports anymore and goes hungry.

So...
Of all the idiots running all of the governments of the world, no one has caught on to just how scammy teh US dollar is?   Only you?
'Cause US has no shortage of trade partners, so "Anon can't is borrow[ing]."
Our dollar is doing surprisingly well this year

...especially rel. BTC :p

[Robert Paulson]

@Robert Paulson:  Again, you don't understand how international commerce works.  US is not "borrowing" USD from anyone, much less yourself  
You don't think the rest of the world is trading with US and not sending collectors after us because we're loved, do you?
Srsly, go back to school or study for a GED

i understand how international commerce works perfectly fine.
the US is borrowing USD with every bond it sells.
the data is clear, the US is running a huge trade deficit on top of its already huge debt to the rest of the world.
if the world stops loaning, the US has to start printing 40 billion every month and hope that the rest of the world is stupid enough to continue accepting it as payment.

Robert Robert Robert...

You keep forgetting that we owe nothing but worthless dollars, dollars dat are "already dead," as you so poignantly pointed out.
Dollars you'll certainly agree we just print by the boatload.
Not much of a debt, amirite?

*And no, you don't understand economics.  Let me explain it to you in terms you'll understand:
1. You have lent Anon 1 BTC.
2. Annon now owes you 1 BTC.
3. Anon, as is customary in Bitcoinland, tells you he ain't got it.

Who's got whose balls?

only in this case if Anon can't borrow anymore he can't pay for any imports anymore and goes hungry.

So...
Of all the idiots running all of the governments of the world, no one has caught on to just how scammy teh US dollar is?   Only you?
'Cause US has no shortage of trade partners, so "Anon can't is borrow[ing]."
Our dollar is doing surprisingly well this year

...especially rel. BTC :p

they all caught on to it, that's why they are all working on getting rid of the USD in international trade before dumping it on the market.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Development_Bank

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-23020718

[onealfa]

Long time since I've seen a bigger BS then this OP
Full potential? now?

Bitcoin is hardly at its 0.001% of its potential
Here is how I see the future

( LOG scale charts of historic data is so  much informative)

[bustrod]

Lol, I never said no one would like to be his own bank.  You, for one, clearly do.  I'd advise against it for now, though.  For now, just focus on learning the difference between statements of fact and overbroad generalizations.

Ok, who is saying who is guilty of overboard generalizations here? I never said I wanted to be my own bank. Nor did I say that you thought nobody would want to be their own bank. My comments weren't even directed exclusively at you. Check that vanity. The point I was making, is that while you and some other individuals enjoy easy access to credit, or might not be interested in being their own bank, there are others without all the same services and conveniences that would find the prospect to do so very liberating and highly beneficial. Making an argument that bitcoin has failed; it has no use; every function is already sufficiently provided for by another service so nobody could possibly want it is a very short sighted, ill-conceived point of view. Before you can feel accused once again, I'm not implying those perspectives are your own, but they are present here and using parts of your comments served to illustrate a point.


Want some overboard blanket statements?

bitcoin solves a problem that people don't have and will never have.

Most people don't want to be their own bank.

If you think people will ever want bitcoin for anything other than speculating or gambling, then you must be smoking something.

The quoted line, restored to its proper context, suggests that USD crashing to zero would be a cataclysmic event, while BTC tanking would, at worst, cause srs lulz.

Did I suggest the inevitable demise of USD and bitcoin being our only salvation? No. Bitcoin is a tool that has the potential to assist in liberating and benefiting people everywhere, whether in economic turmoil or not.

[NotLambchop]

@Robert Paulson:  Again, you don't understand how international commerce works.  US is not "borrowing" USD from anyone, much less yourself  
You don't think the rest of the world is trading with US and not sending collectors after us because we're loved, do you?
Srsly, go back to school or study for a GED

i understand how international commerce works perfectly fine.
the US is borrowing USD with every bond it sells.
the data is clear, the US is running a huge trade deficit on top of its already huge debt to the rest of the world.
if the world stops loaning, the US has to start printing 40 billion every month and hope that the rest of the world is stupid enough to continue accepting it as payment.

Robert Robert Robert...

You keep forgetting that we owe nothing but worthless dollars, dollars dat are "already dead," as you so poignantly pointed out.
Dollars you'll certainly agree we just print by the boatload.
Not much of a debt, amirite?

*And no, you don't understand economics.  Let me explain it to you in terms you'll understand:
1. You have lent Anon 1 BTC.
2. Annon now owes you 1 BTC.
3. Anon, as is customary in Bitcoinland, tells you he ain't got it.

Who's got whose balls?

only in this case if Anon can't borrow anymore he can't pay for any imports anymore and goes hungry.

So...
Of all the idiots running all of the governments of the world, no one has caught on to just how scammy teh US dollar is?   Only you?
'Cause US has no shortage of trade partners, so "Anon can't is borrow[ing]."
Our dollar is doing surprisingly well this year

...especially rel. BTC :p

they all caught on to it, that's why they are all working on getting rid of the USD in international trade before dumping it on the market.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Development_Bank

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-23020718

If other countries are on to our scam $, why are they still trading with us?  You wouldn't keep lending Anon money after learning he will not (and can not) pay, would you?
Nvrmnd, you probably would

[Wilhelm]

Bitcoin will be Intercash. It will be the same as Internet is for Intranet.
It will not replace fiat but bridge the gap between countries and currencies.
Therefore it could well be the major universal fiat broker and reserve currency for this planet.

[NotLambchop]

Lol, I never said no one would like to be his own bank.  You, for one, clearly do.  I'd advise against it for now, though.  For now, just focus on learning the difference between statements of fact and overbroad generalizations.

Ok, who is saying who is guilty of overboard generalizations here? I never said I wanted to be my own bank. Nor did I say that you thought nobody would want to be their own bank. My comments weren't even directed exclusively at you. Check that vanity. The point I was making, is that while you and some other individuals enjoy easy access to credit, or might not be interested in being their own bank, there are others without all the same services and conveniences that would find the prospect to do so very liberating and highly beneficial. Making an argument that bitcoin has failed; it has no use; every function is already sufficiently provided for by another service so nobody could possibly want it is a very short sighted, ill-conceived point of view. Before you can feel accused once again, I'm not implying those perspectives are your own, but they are present here and using parts of your comments served to illustrate a point.

Taking a line out of context "to illustrate a point" you knew I wasn't making?  Manipulative and dishonest
*If you do not wish to be your own bank, Bitcoin, as a payment method, is probably not for you.  I apologize for assuming you wished to take banking into your own hands, as you feel the great unwashed should.

Speculating about Bitcoin's hypothetical future advantages to the poor and teh undertrodden is fun, but those are just that--speculations ungrounded in fact.  We might as well speculate about Bitcoin's hypothetical future usefulness to our Beneficent Lizard Overlords.  Thus far, neither the poor nor Our Mighty Lizard Rulers (Long may they reign!) are flocking to Bitcoin.

On top of all that, the poor and undertrodden with smartphones, net access and laptops aren't so poor, and are likely to have better access to conventional money services.

The quoted line, restored to its proper context, suggests that USD crashing to zero would be a cataclysmic event, while BTC tanking would, at worst, cause srs lulz.

Did I suggest the inevitable demise of USD...

No, you did not.  The intended recipient of the line you quoted did.  That's why context is so important.  Without it, easy to get confused

[Robert Paulson]

@Robert Paulson:  Again, you don't understand how international commerce works.  US is not "borrowing" USD from anyone, much less yourself  
You don't think the rest of the world is trading with US and not sending collectors after us because we're loved, do you?
Srsly, go back to school or study for a GED

i understand how international commerce works perfectly fine.
the US is borrowing USD with every bond it sells.
the data is clear, the US is running a huge trade deficit on top of its already huge debt to the rest of the world.
if the world stops loaning, the US has to start printing 40 billion every month and hope that the rest of the world is stupid enough to continue accepting it as payment.

Robert Robert Robert...

You keep forgetting that we owe nothing but worthless dollars, dollars dat are "already dead," as you so poignantly pointed out.
Dollars you'll certainly agree we just print by the boatload.
Not much of a debt, amirite?

*And no, you don't understand economics.  Let me explain it to you in terms you'll understand:
1. You have lent Anon 1 BTC.
2. Annon now owes you 1 BTC.
3. Anon, as is customary in Bitcoinland, tells you he ain't got it.

Who's got whose balls?

only in this case if Anon can't borrow anymore he can't pay for any imports anymore and goes hungry.

So...
Of all the idiots running all of the governments of the world, no one has caught on to just how scammy teh US dollar is?   Only you?
'Cause US has no shortage of trade partners, so "Anon can't is borrow[ing]."
Our dollar is doing surprisingly well this year

...especially rel. BTC :p

they all caught on to it, that's why they are all working on getting rid of the USD in international trade before dumping it on the market.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Development_Bank

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-23020718

If other countries are on to our scam $, why are they still trading with us?  You wouldn't keep lending Anon money after learning he will not (and can not) pay, would you?
Nvrmnd, you probably would

why did people buy .com companies with no income for billions of dollars in 1999?
how could all the experts miss the obvious observation that a website that has no income and no viable business plan is not worth anything?
why did some of the worlds biggest banks give sub-prime mortgages to deadbeats in 2007?

countries are not immune of making mistakes, the fact that they are making them doesn't change the facts.
its mathematically impossible for America to ever repay its debt which means that sooner or later it will either default or inflate it away.
considering America is completely dependent on its ability to loan money and obviously no one will loan to someone who has just defaulted on his debt,
there is no other conclusion except that the endgame for the American economy is near.
exactly when this happens depends on China, the second America upsets them those loans are gone, along with the American economy.

[novacn]

Xiaoxiao are you still holding any bitcoins?

I want to help you get rid of them - how about 1 dollar each? We both agree they aren't worth anything at all, so a dollar per BTC is quite a deal. I will even buy your satoshis! Deal?

Agreed 
I'll help in this too.

[twiifm]

@Robert Paulson:  Again, you don't understand how international commerce works.  US is not "borrowing" USD from anyone, much less yourself  
You don't think the rest of the world is trading with US and not sending collectors after us because we're loved, do you?
Srsly, go back to school or study for a GED

i understand how international commerce works perfectly fine.
the US is borrowing USD with every bond it sells.
the data is clear, the US is running a huge trade deficit on top of its already huge debt to the rest of the world.
if the world stops loaning, the US has to start printing 40 billion every month and hope that the rest of the world is stupid enough to continue accepting it as payment.

Robert Robert Robert...

You keep forgetting that we owe nothing but worthless dollars, dollars dat are "already dead," as you so poignantly pointed out.
Dollars you'll certainly agree we just print by the boatload.
Not much of a debt, amirite?

*And no, you don't understand economics.  Let me explain it to you in terms you'll understand:
1. You have lent Anon 1 BTC.
2. Annon now owes you 1 BTC.
3. Anon, as is customary in Bitcoinland, tells you he ain't got it.

Who's got whose balls?

only in this case if Anon can't borrow anymore he can't pay for any imports anymore and goes hungry.

So...
Of all the idiots running all of the governments of the world, no one has caught on to just how scammy teh US dollar is?   Only you?
'Cause US has no shortage of trade partners, so "Anon can't is borrow[ing]."
Our dollar is doing surprisingly well this year

...especially rel. BTC :p

they all caught on to it, that's why they are all working on getting rid of the USD in international trade before dumping it on the market.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Development_Bank

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-23020718

If other countries are on to our scam $, why are they still trading with us?  You wouldn't keep lending Anon money after learning he will not (and can not) pay, would you?
Nvrmnd, you probably would

why did people buy .com companies with no income for billions of dollars in 1999?
how could all the experts miss the obvious observation that a website that has no income and no viable business plan is not worth anything?
why did some of the worlds biggest banks give sub-prime mortgages to deadbeats in 2007?

countries are not immune of making mistakes, the fact that they are making them doesn't change the facts.
its mathematically impossible for America to ever repay its debt which means that sooner or later it will either default or inflate it away.
considering America is completely dependent on its ability to loan money and obviously no one will loan to someone who has just defaulted on his debt,
there is no other conclusion except that the endgame for the American economy is near.
exactly when this happens depends on China, the second America upsets them those loans are gone, along with the American economy.

Are you comparing bitcoin bubble to 99 tech bubble? 

[NotLambchop]

...
countries are not immune of making mistakes, the fact that they are making them doesn't change the facts.
its mathematically impossible for America to ever repay its debt which means that sooner or later it will either default or inflate it away...

But YOU understand this, Robert Paulson!
You, the clear thinker, are responsible for warning all these n00b countries about the costly mistake they're making!
Call them all, in alphabetical order, you can even call collect--ur worth it.  Just say "Mne pogovorite s El Presidente Altisimo, gospodin!  Tres importante!"--that's international politician talk, they'll instantly know what to do.  Go forth and speak your great truth, Robert Paulson!

For No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light.

Help us, Robert Paulson, ur r oly hop!

[nuff]

If no one wants their bitcoins please please pretty please send them to my address below to rid of your burden.

Xiaoxiao?Anyone? Guess you still want your bitcoins despite saying it's worthless huh? If you're so sure that bitcoin will go to zero you would've just left and not even care let alone writing posts after posts trying to 'save' us from financial disaster.

[pitham1]

If bitcoin has hit its full potential, why are millions of dollars being poured into bitcoin start ups by VCs?

[Xiaoxiao]

If bitcoin has hit its full potential, why are millions of dollars being poured into bitcoin start ups by VCs?

OMGGGGGG mirrons of dollars!!!!

[Gimmelfarb]

many people in here preaching about the death of the dollar. when, pray tell, is this going to happen? i won't act like fiat money can last forever.... but things are in pretty damn good shape considering we were on the verge of a systemic collapse in 2008. i've been hearing this doomsday shit since before then as well.

[inca]

Lol, I never said no one would like to be his own bank.  You, for one, clearly do.  I'd advise against it for now, though.  For now, just focus on learning the difference between statements of fact and overbroad generalizations.

Ok, who is saying who is guilty of overboard generalizations here? I never said I wanted to be my own bank. Nor did I say that you thought nobody would want to be their own bank. My comments weren't even directed exclusively at you. Check that vanity. The point I was making, is that while you and some other individuals enjoy easy access to credit, or might not be interested in being their own bank, there are others without all the same services and conveniences that would find the prospect to do so very liberating and highly beneficial. Making an argument that bitcoin has failed; it has no use; every function is already sufficiently provided for by another service so nobody could possibly want it is a very short sighted, ill-conceived point of view. Before you can feel accused once again, I'm not implying those perspectives are your own, but they are present here and using parts of your comments served to illustrate a point.

Taking a line out of context "to illustrate a point" you knew I wasn't making?  Manipulative and dishonest
*If you do not wish to be your own bank, Bitcoin, as a payment method, is probably not for you.  I apologize for assuming you wished to take banking into your own hands, as you feel the great unwashed should.

Speculating about Bitcoin's hypothetical future advantages to the poor and teh undertrodden is fun, but those are just that--speculations ungrounded in fact.  We might as well speculate about Bitcoin's hypothetical future usefulness to our Beneficent Lizard Overlords.  Thus far, neither the poor nor Our Mighty Lizard Rulers (Long may they reign!) are flocking to Bitcoin.

On top of all that, the poor and undertrodden with smartphones, net access and laptops aren't so poor, and are likely to have better access to conventional money services.

The quoted line, restored to its proper context, suggests that USD crashing to zero would be a cataclysmic event, while BTC tanking would, at worst, cause srs lulz.

Did I suggest the inevitable demise of USD...

No, you did not.  The intended recipient of the line you quoted did.  That's why context is so important.  Without it, easy to get confused

Wrong. The trend of cheap tech permeating even into deepest darkest Africa is both obvious and irreversible. Legacy banking will never penetrate into these places. Infrastructure such as roads and phonelines are absent yet mobile dumbphone use is ubiquitous. Soon cheap smartphone use will be near universal globally.

If you cannot see that whichever monetary system which can be transacted via a phone, used to store value via a phone safely backed up in the cloud then you are not looking at the big picture.

Bitcoin has existed for five years but the technology distribution to free the globe by exposure to the internet and the protocols running over it such as bitcoin is only now being realised.

It is an exciting time. Personally I think getting a bitcoin wallet app (with a memorable recoverable seed option) on every new mobile being created around the world is something the bitcoin foundation or wallet designers should be pushing really really hard. Even a Samsung wallet would be great..this will happen for sure in the next five years.

[Robert Paulson]

many people in here preaching about the death of the dollar. when, pray tell, is this going to happen? i won't act like fiat money can last forever.... but things are in pretty damn good shape considering we were on the verge of a systemic collapse in 2008. i've been hearing this doomsday shit since before then as well.

the day China stops financing America and its only choice is to use the printing press.

[Gimmelfarb]

many people in here preaching about the death of the dollar. when, pray tell, is this going to happen? i won't act like fiat money can last forever.... but things are in pretty damn good shape considering we were on the verge of a systemic collapse in 2008. i've been hearing this doomsday shit since before then as well.

the day China stops financing America and its only choice is to use the printing press.

yeah, been hearing that one forever as well. hehe, i just think it's funny, i've been hearing this same stuff for so many years now. i gave up preparing for doomsday a long time ago.... cross that bridge when we get there.... we'll see what the US military has to say about things as well (hate to say it)....

[Robert Paulson]

...
countries are not immune of making mistakes, the fact that they are making them doesn't change the facts.
its mathematically impossible for America to ever repay its debt which means that sooner or later it will either default or inflate it away...

But YOU understand this, Robert Paulson!
You, the clear thinker, are responsible for warning all these n00b countries about the costly mistake they're making!
Call them all, in alphabetical order, you can even call collect--ur worth it.  Just say "Mne pogovorite s El Presidente Altisimo, gospodin!  Tres importante!"--that's international politician talk, they'll instantly know what to do.  Go forth and speak your great truth, Robert Paulson!

For No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light.

Help us, Robert Paulson, ur r oly hop!

even the American government understands this, they just can't do anything about it because it requires ending socialism which will bring out the pitchforks.
http://budget.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=387875

[Robert Paulson]

many people in here preaching about the death of the dollar. when, pray tell, is this going to happen? i won't act like fiat money can last forever.... but things are in pretty damn good shape considering we were on the verge of a systemic collapse in 2008. i've been hearing this doomsday shit since before then as well.

the day China stops financing America and its only choice is to use the printing press.

yeah, been hearing that one forever as well. hehe, i just think it's funny, i've been hearing this same stuff for so many years now. i gave up preparing for doomsday a long time ago.... cross that bridge when we get there.... we'll see what the US military has to say about things as well (hate to say it)....

the US military has nothing to eat if China stops paying for it.

[NotLambchop]

many people in here preaching about the death of the dollar. when, pray tell, is this going to happen? i won't act like fiat money can last forever.... but things are in pretty damn good shape considering we were on the verge of a systemic collapse in 2008. i've been hearing this doomsday shit since before then as well.

the day China stops financing America and its only choice is to use the printing press.

yeah, been hearing that one forever as well. hehe, i just think it's funny, i've been hearing this same stuff for so many years now. i gave up preparing for doomsday a long time ago.... cross that bridge when we get there.... we'll see what the US military has to say about things as well (hate to say it)....

the US military has nothing to eat if China stops paying for it.

US soldiers are trained to eat the people they kill.  That's the main reason US has switched to non-toxic, lead-free bullets.



Die, running dog imperialist expansionist pig, die!

[Ayers]

Bitcoin is not really decentralized,

It's as decentralised a currency can get.

the mining aspect surely isn't, a major work is needed there, to prevent monopolization and 51% attack

[blade87]

Just quoting this from another thread, because while I have been bearish lately for the short term (but still bullish long term), I don't think BTC is anywhere near its full potential. This below, is BTC reaching its full potential, imo.

If a company can pay its staff with BTC, then it is possible for the BTC price to be higher.

We need jobs getting paid with BTC, otherwise its pointless becuase only early investors can have BTC, most people will not risk their fiat. The fundamental part of a successful currency is salaries being paid on it.

This is actually what would probably be needed to drive BTC to $10,000 and beyond. Even something small like 5-10% of salaries, and people wouldn't really think twice about it. It would just be done, and it would create this large and constant upward buying pressure. If this got out of control to the point where everyone was doing it, BTC probably would go to $100,000 even. The amount of BTC being bought from just small fractions of all salaries would be huge.

First we need the big mass adoption phase, which will hopefully come in 2015 with Paypal integration. Then we should BTC acceptance popping up everywhere. Only then will the majority of people start accepting BTC is not a scam. From there it could happen that people start requesting small fractions of their salary people paid in BTC. This to me would be BTC reaching its full potential. It would be out of the speculation phase at this point.

Unfortunately I just don't see it happening so quickly. Realistically, I'd expect some like this to pick up pace 2018-2020. Mass acceptance isn't going to happen overnight even with Paypal integration. You'll still have people bitter towards BTC that are going to require nothing more than time to soften up towards it.

Posted about DOGE ironically, but BTC itself is maybe at the point where there are 3 people dancing in this video right before the rest of the mob comes in : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW8amMCVAJQ

Soon you'll be ridiculed for not being a part of BTC! (just after capitulation that is - which is represented by dancers falling in the video)

[Chris_Sabian]

Xiaoxiao is just upset that since he 'was around in 2011' that he didn't buy the really cheap coins and watch the huge rise in price.

And he is a just a shill account.

[pitham1]

Xiaoxiao is just upset that since he 'was around in 2011' that he didn't buy the really cheap coins and watch the huge rise in price.

And he is a just a shill account.

A lot of us wish we were aware of bitcoins in 2011. 

[Gimmelfarb]

Xiaoxiao is just upset that since he 'was around in 2011' that he didn't buy the really cheap coins and watch the huge rise in price.

And he is a just a shill account.

A lot of us wish we were aware of bitcoins in 2011. 

it's easy to say that in hindsight, 2 bubbles later. i was aware of bitcoins in 2011, and during/after the bear market (to $2), bitcoin looked to be a laughing stock, a pump and dump. kudos to those who got in that low or held on from higher up. much easier to say that you'd have bought back then, now.